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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Gilbatron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 02:45:00 -
[181] - Quote
i wonder if anyone of you have ever seen anyone asking for controller support for a FPS game on the PC
thats all the proof i need to say with full conviction that KBM is so much better for FPS than the DS3 or the Xbox controller
its fine for all kinds of casual gameplay but it sucks for everything competetive other than sports games |
Freyar Tarkin
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 02:50:00 -
[182] - Quote
Gilbatron wrote:i wonder if anyone of you have ever seen anyone asking for controller support for a FPS game on the PC
Google-fu for a minute and you'll see people asking for 360 support in a number of games, especially during beta phases. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 02:52:00 -
[183] - Quote
Mr514 wrote:Hi Is there ever going to be options to be able to use mouse and keyboard on this game? HOW MANY OF THESE THREADS MUST THERE BE?! |
Freyar Tarkin
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 02:53:00 -
[184] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Mr514 wrote:Hi Is there ever going to be options to be able to use mouse and keyboard on this game? HOW MANY OF THESE THREADS MUST THERE BE?!
Many, hot-button topic is hot-button. |
Hellaciouss Deeds
Doomheim
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 04:03:00 -
[185] - Quote
Lilianna Sentinel wrote:Hellaciouss Deeds wrote:Benjamin Hellios wrote:Thread still going strong, baws! Also the condescension towards consoleplayers or 'console kiddies' on a forum for a console exclusive is puzzling. Because CCP promised KB/M support, and also supposedly working on PC client for then the 1year exlusivity agreement is over. Why would PC players lag behind a year on their characters? We're forced to buy the PS3 (because many EVE players want to participate in the battles over THEIR planets), but don't worry, soon as the PC client is released...hello ebay! Some sucker will buy it. I bet you'll be able to migrate your character over to the PC version.
Considering it will be the same game, it would be silly not to be able to, but even if you can't, I will GLADLY start over to be rid of this piece of crap $ony hardware, I just want to be able to defend my planets NOW, not in a year once the PS3 exclusivity is gone. |
Arcushek Dion
Doomheim
73
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 05:22:00 -
[186] - Quote
Freyar Tarkin wrote:Gilbatron wrote:i wonder if anyone of you have ever seen anyone asking for controller support for a FPS game on the PC Google-fu for a minute and you'll see people asking for 360 support in a number of games, especially during beta phases.
Yes for vehicle control, not shooting. I had a 360 controller hooked up to my PC just for flying in bf3. |
Calroon-514
Doomheim
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:26:00 -
[187] - Quote
"Soon Gäó" ... turns out it ain' that soon, if ever? |
Vetis Cato
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
250
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:54:00 -
[188] - Quote
seriously we could all be here til were blue in the faces.
why do pc users have to act all high and mighty, and why do console users have to throw there doll out the pram?
no one and i mean NO ONE can suggest that they shouldnt have kb/m support. as long as its balanced and fair. that is the FPS mantra. fairness and a level playing field so that we can all test our skill at shooting. sure dust adds a new twist in it also shows our skill at fittings the right kit, and picking the skills. but its all about show casing abilitys. and to do that you have to have a level field.
PC guys and gals, please understand consolers just want it to be fair.
Consolers please understand that pc users were promised a medium. |
Boksoon
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:17:00 -
[189] - Quote
I seriously hope we get KB/M soon. I'm loving this new build except for the part where I have to use a controller to play. Playing a shotgun with a controller is like trying to fly a jet completely wasted. Everything feels sluggish and imprecise. |
Freyar Tarkin
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:24:00 -
[190] - Quote
Arcushek Dion wrote:Freyar Tarkin wrote:Gilbatron wrote:i wonder if anyone of you have ever seen anyone asking for controller support for a FPS game on the PC Google-fu for a minute and you'll see people asking for 360 support in a number of games, especially during beta phases. Yes for vehicle control, not shooting. I had a 360 controller hooked up to my PC just for flying in bf3.
Nope, there's controller support requested for standard FPS action too- or did you juts search for "Battlefield 3" Controller? There've been a few games out there that actually removed controller support 100% and gotten flack for it.
Vetis Cato wrote:why do pc users have to act all high and mighty, and why do console users have to throw there doll out the pram?
Because we're forum warriors and have nothing better to do. :D
Quote:no one and i mean NO ONE can suggest that they shouldnt have kb/m support. as long as its balanced and fair. that is the FPS mantra. fairness and a level playing field so that we can all test our skill at shooting. sure dust adds a new twist in it also shows our skill at fittings the right kit, and picking the skills. but its all about show casing abilitys. and to do that you have to have a level field.
PC guys and gals, please understand consolers just want it to be fair.
Consolers please understand that pc users were promised a medium.
If this game were supposed to be fair, then why are there pure power skills in the tree? An increase in weapon damage by 15% or 25% is pretty significant which skews the fairness argument out the window. Combine that with off-map support in live, and it's even more of a problem. CCP hasn't built this game to be fair, I don't see why Keyboard and Mouse versus Controller needs to aside from the nebulous concept (and frankly one I don't care for) of making sure that a controller does okay because everyone has one.
Everyone has a USB keyboard somewhere. Hell, people pay premium for PS/2 keyboards these days, same with mice. You can't really find ball-based mice, so as long as you have a decent surface you're fine.
I suppose the bottom line is: CCP isn't building a fair game. Use the best tools available, don't hold yourself back to inferior input and adapt instead. Adding Mouse support and throwing it in against the rest of the playerbase may shift the way people play shooters in the future, and may afford the possibility of making the mouse a dominant input system for shooters. |
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Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:35:00 -
[191] - Quote
Hellaciouss Deeds wrote:A keyboard + mouse is cheaper then a dualshock controller.
Just sayin.
CCP supposedly have plans to bring the game to the PC after the 1-year exclusivity agreement, so they will need good kb/m support anyway.
Sorry console kiddies, but it's time to realize that computers are replacing the crappy, over priced, under achieving garbage known as consoles. Consoles just aren't what they used to be.
Where have you this information from?... link? If this is true, i just got realy happy. :D |
Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:46:00 -
[192] - Quote
Freyar Tarkin wrote:
If this game were supposed to be fair, then why are there pure power skills in the tree? An increase in weapon damage by 15% or 25% is pretty significant which skews the fairness argument out the window. Combine that with off-map support in live, and it's even more of a problem. CCP hasn't built this game to be fair, I don't see why Keyboard and Mouse versus Controller needs to aside from the nebulous concept (and frankly one I don't care for) of making sure that a controller does okay because everyone has one.
Everyone has a USB keyboard somewhere. Hell, people pay premium for PS/2 keyboards these days, same with mice. You can't really find ball-based mice, so as long as you have a decent surface you're fine.
I suppose the bottom line is: CCP isn't building a fair game. Use the best tools available, don't hold yourself back to inferior input and adapt instead. Adding Mouse support and throwing it in against the rest of the playerbase may shift the way people play shooters in the future, and may afford the possibility of making the mouse a dominant input system for shooters.
:D You hit the nail so hard it broke the hole wall.. :D Nice written |
Emrys Gal-Wyddel
The Southern Legion
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:49:00 -
[193] - Quote
Freyar Tarkin wrote:
If this game were supposed to be fair, then why are there pure power skills in the tree? An increase in weapon damage by 15% or 25% is pretty significant which skews the fairness argument out the window. Combine that with off-map support in live, and it's even more of a problem. CCP hasn't built this game to be fair, I don't see why Keyboard and Mouse versus Controller needs to aside from the nebulous concept (and frankly one I don't care for) of making sure that a controller does okay because everyone has one.
Everyone has a USB keyboard somewhere. Hell, people pay premium for PS/2 keyboards these days, same with mice. You can't really find ball-based mice, so as long as you have a decent surface you're fine.
I suppose the bottom line is: CCP isn't building a fair game. Use the best tools available, don't hold yourself back to inferior input and adapt instead. Adding Mouse support and throwing it in against the rest of the playerbase may shift the way people play shooters in the future, and may afford the possibility of making the mouse a dominant input system for shooters.
Your argument is flawed. Sure there are certain skills that give advantages, but those advantages/skills are available to anybody with the inclination to build their character in any said appropriate manner. All games are fair provided that the same opportunities are provided to everyone. The current item-mall structure for example, would have great potential to unbalance the game. Because of the way CCP have designed it, it has not, which reflects quite aptly CCPs desire for a fair game.
The argument against KB/M is that, historically, in other games (especially pc) using KB/M has given the user an advantage in primarily precision and speed. If that component is introduced into DUST, it will provide users inclined to use KB/M with an unfair advantage. This rift would become increasingly obvious given the current game mechanics and control issues.
Personally, I am against having KB/M introduced. It would be much simpler to have one platform for control and not worry about having to buy more hardware to be competitive in a console game. Having said that I see no problem with it IF it can be made so that there is no advantage, other than a users personal preference.
TL;DR - This game is made to be fair, kb/m generally gives unfair advantage, I hope they change the dynamics of it so that there is no advantage to any user other than preference
|
Freyar Tarkin
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
95
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:58:00 -
[194] - Quote
Emrys Gal-Wyddel wrote:Your argument is flawed. Sure there are certain skills that give advantages, but those advantages/skills are available to anybody with the inclination to build their character in any said appropriate manner. All games are fair provided that the same opportunities are provided to everyone. The current item-mall structure for example, would have great potential to unbalance the game. Because of the way CCP have designed it, it has not, which reflects quite aptly CCPs desire for a fair game.
Almost everyone has a mouse and keyboard. This is pretty comparable to your argument about skills being available. Mice and keyboards are DIRT cheap, and simple to use. If they were expensive like say the upcoming Razer Artemis, or a special peripheral specific to the game, then I'd be more sympathetic.
The game will be unbalanced in the sense that tenure will afford more opportunities for SP generation and ISK generation as well as coming out on top during missions. If a match were fair, then it wouldn't matter if you went in naked. This argument is analogous to what I argue about MMORPGs as well. If the games were fair in PvP, then someone who has no skills, no gear, and plenty of actual play experience, then it should not make a difference. The simple fact that Assault Rifle Operation gives you a -5% spread and kick per level up to 25% reduction is an indication that this is not the case.
Instead of clinging to a fairness argument that doesn't work because the game is NOT fair. (I accept that, I accept that this is how the game is built, much like I accept that APB:R is not a fair game either..) let's consider the whole "I don't wanna get it" mentality.
Quote:Personally, I am against having KB/M introduced. It would be much simpler to have one platform for control and not worry about having to buy more hardware to be competitive in a console game. Having said that I see no problem with it IF it can be made so that there is no advantage, other than a users personal preference.
Because buying a $10 mouse is hard.. you had to go out and buy a $50 Dualshock 3 controller, or pay $80 for the Playstation Move Bundle. This is where I roll my eyes. It isn't about fairness for PS3 players, it's about a lack of willing to get up and get what works for the game. You probably have a USB mouse at home already, most people with computers do. If you're not willing to buy one, use that instead.
After managing to configure the move and shift my understanding of how it works, the Move is actually pretty damned good too. Sure the implementation is a bit wonky for DUST, but after a little bit I took it to Killzone 3 to put it through it's paces. Once configured, it's really an advantage there too. So why is it okay for the Move to be implemented side-by-side with a Dualshock 3, but not okay for a mouse and keyboard? Simple, the rivalry is much longer. |
Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:45:00 -
[195] - Quote
Hellaciouss Deeds wrote:
CCP supposedly have plans to bring the game to the PC after the 1-year exclusivity agreement, so they will need good kb/m support anyway.
Sorry console kiddies, but it's time to realize that computers are replacing the crappy, over priced, under achieving garbage known as consoles. Consoles just aren't what they used to be.
Where is this info?...
|
Vetis Cato
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
250
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:03:00 -
[196] - Quote
last post im putting on this issue, as i really hate going around in circles.
but long and short of it is consolers are not lazy at all, your accusations they dont want kb/m in its full "glory" because they dont want to have to go out and buy a set is seriously incorrect (hell if you believe that how would you explain people like me, i have no problem with pc gaming, i do it just as much. but i feel kb/m should be balanced).
this has nothing to do with peoples williness to buy a cheap piece of kit to improve there game. hell if anything that would turn dust into a pay to win game. its no different from ccp releaseing a new pack for $10 which makes the hitboxes of the enemy twice the size.
all the console community want is a level field to be able to battle on. if CCP dont provide that, they will be loosing a vast majority of there market before the game even gets going.
tbh its down to ccp to decied which side of the fence they will sit on. the kb/m players who want to have the un balanced advantage, loosing them alot of potencial players. or that of a kb/m balance loosing a handful of die hards. |
Spushkin
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:07:00 -
[197] - Quote
Agreeing with Vetis Cato.
Personally, I'd prefer not to see M&K in Dust at all. Let's check out two ways to introduce them:
1) Perfectly PC-like use in an FPS. People using M&K start dominating the ladders, games and everything. Joypad users ragequit, game loses players.
2) Nerfed to be on an equal ground with joypads. M&K users ragequit at not having the advantage expected. Game loses players.
Ergo, better leave that can of worms unopened, however, CCP have said multiple times it's coming, so I guess there's nothing much to do about it. |
Aidan Torrall
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 16:49:00 -
[198] - Quote
Once CCP puts M&K in, you'll see the PS3 people leave in droves. It's that simple. Much too unfair, as we all know. Why have the game on PS3 if you're going to treat it like a PC game. They should have just started on PC if that was the case and not waste all of the console players' time. |
Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 20:58:00 -
[199] - Quote
Aidan Torrall wrote:Once CCP puts M&K in, you'll see the PS3 people leave in droves. It's that simple. Much too unfair, as we all know. Why have the game on PS3 if you're going to treat it like a PC game. They should have just started on PC if that was the case and not waste all of the console players' time.
We are ******* talking about one type of game. Not every ******* ass game on PS3. Anyhow, it seems there are proofe that Keyboard and mouse are going to be so its all good now. :) |
Beta Phish
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 21:01:00 -
[200] - Quote
this is a PS3 game NOT a PC game.
all kb/m would allow players to do is abuse the broken movement & aim in Beta already |
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Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 21:02:00 -
[201] - Quote
Beta Phish wrote:this is a PS3 game NOT a PC game.
all kb/m would allow players to do is abuse the broken movement & aim in Beta already
But you're inhibiting ways people want to plaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay ;( |
Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 21:26:00 -
[202] - Quote
Beta Phish wrote:this is a PS3 game NOT a PC game.
all kb/m would allow players to do is abuse the broken movement & aim in Beta already
LoL.. get a life.. ITs a game, its working better with mouse and keyboard (something that is comming) and there are several other games out there that already support's keyboard and mouse. ;-) And more it comes.. |
Lilianna Sentinel
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
295
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 21:33:00 -
[203] - Quote
Beta Phish wrote:this is a PS3 game NOT a PC game.
all kb/m would allow players to do is abuse the broken movement & aim in Beta already
Hmm, you're right. PS3 games don't use mouse and keyboard....yet.
Maybe they should move onto mouse and keyboard because it's an obviously better control scheme. If Dust 514 sets the stage, maybe other games will follow in step.
This is great! We need to have more console games that support this. |
Emrys Gal-Wyddel
The Southern Legion
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 22:22:00 -
[204] - Quote
Freyar Tarkin wrote:Emrys Gal-Wyddel wrote:Your argument is flawed. Sure there are certain skills that give advantages, but those advantages/skills are available to anybody with the inclination to build their character in any said appropriate manner. All games are fair provided that the same opportunities are provided to everyone. The current item-mall structure for example, would have great potential to unbalance the game. Because of the way CCP have designed it, it has not, which reflects quite aptly CCPs desire for a fair game. Almost everyone has a mouse and keyboard. This is pretty comparable to your argument about skills being available. Mice and keyboards are DIRT cheap, and simple to use. If they were expensive like say the upcoming Razer Artemis, or a special peripheral specific to the game, then I'd be more sympathetic. The game will be unbalanced in the sense that tenure will afford more opportunities for SP generation and ISK generation as well as coming out on top during missions. If a match were fair, then it wouldn't matter if you went in naked. This argument is analogous to what I argue about MMORPGs as well. If the games were fair in PvP, then someone who has no skills, no gear, and plenty of actual play experience, then it should not make a difference. The simple fact that Assault Rifle Operation gives you a -5% spread and kick per level up to 25% reduction is an indication that this is not the case. Instead of clinging to a fairness argument that doesn't work because the game is NOT fair. (I accept that, I accept that this is how the game is built, much like I accept that APB:R is not a fair game either..) let's consider the whole "I don't wanna get it" mentality. Quote:Personally, I am against having KB/M introduced. It would be much simpler to have one platform for control and not worry about having to buy more hardware to be competitive in a console game. Having said that I see no problem with it IF it can be made so that there is no advantage, other than a users personal preference. Because buying a $10 mouse is hard.. you had to go out and buy a $50 Dualshock 3 controller, or pay $80 for the Playstation Move Bundle. This is where I roll my eyes. It isn't about fairness for PS3 players, it's about a lack of willing to get up and get what works for the game. You probably have a USB mouse at home already, most people with computers do. If you're not willing to buy one, use that instead. After managing to configure the move and shift my understanding of how it works, the Move is actually pretty damned good too. Sure the implementation is a bit wonky for DUST, but after a little bit I took it to Killzone 3 to put it through it's paces. Once configured, it's really an advantage there too. So why is it okay for the Move to be implemented side-by-side with a Dualshock 3, but not okay for a mouse and keyboard? Simple, the rivalry is much longer.
not going to bother responding to all of this, but bottom line is that the way the skills system works is that you choose what to put your sp into, and any specialisation you choose will be good against someone and bad against another. This applies to everything, even if you have 25% damage bonus for AR. This makes it fair. If you put sp into average skills or dont specialise you pay the consequences of your own lack of foresight. this is fair gameplay.
saying its $10 to go and buy a kbm and 80 to buy a dualshock doesnt fly. The ps3 comes with a free controller and last i checked this is only a single player game. An unbalanced KBM system is going to force people to buy non-standard accessories to be competitive. I dont have a problem with move because I dont see any perceived advantage. The fact that you're unwilling to adapt (not going to speculate on the reasons for this) to the platforms natural controlling mechanism shouldn't be an issue for CCP, especially in the development stages.
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Mazz Dover
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 20:00:00 -
[205] - Quote
One vital fact that most of the PS3 junkies seem to be missing about this game IS that this is a cross platform game. A wonderful and beautiful hybrid.
KBM will not give any advantage to anyone that sucks by nature. The people that it will help will be those that normally do FPS's on PC. There will be no real advantage other than being comfortable with your control setup. I wonder how many of the KBM opposition have every actually used it for a FPS, if they have I doubt they would be arguing against it. The fear of getting owned by a KBM player is quite humorous. The folks that have been playing FPS's on PC for years will surely take your lunch money, but there are still a vast majority of folks that will die just as easily by way of your DS3 contoller. If a player sucks, that player sucks. Adding/using a KBM setup will not make them a god instantly. There is a fine art to using a KBM, those that master it excel, the others are wormbait. I have personally been waiting for years to have a game introduce KBM support on the PS3, it's way over due. Change is good, it drives the industry. |
Mr514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 11:50:00 -
[206] - Quote
Well, now i just got a mail from DUST Team and they are telling that Keyboard and Mouse is going to be supported in the close future. But they are not done with it so coudent say when its getting live. |
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GM Fabulous
corptester prodigy1 Corp
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:13:00 -
[207] - Quote
Hello everyone.
To keep you informed on this subject, KB&M support is coming. We currently plan to release it in the next major beta patch (build). |
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carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:14:00 -
[208] - Quote
Wohoo \0/ |
xdcmadmax
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:17:00 -
[209] - Quote
GM Fabulous wrote:Hello everyone.
To keep you informed on this subject, KB&M support is coming. We currently plan to release it in the next major beta patch (build).
The DEV God has spoken! And good btw. |
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
781
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 12:17:00 -
[210] - Quote
i wonder how they will balance kb/m support and dualshock.
I would hate for kb/m to be the only competitive way to play this game. Like others have said, the skill ceiling on kb/m is much higher and that can cause quite the disparity between players. |
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