DUST Search - Keyboard/Mouse

Freyar Tarkin wrote:

Vetis Cato wrote:

and as for the analoge im mostly refuring to the targetting sytem. not over all movement.

and yes i agree mouse is suprior and that is why consolers are annoyed. they dont have anything against the use of the mouse as long as its balanced so them using there controllers isnt going to be a hinderance. its simple unfair to put a game on console, then shaft console players using analoge sticks. and yes you can go into the point of adapt or die, what if ccp released a new game on pc and said we will be nerfing kb/m users and giving pad users an unfair advantage. would that be fair?

Your scenario wouldn't work because on the PC everyone would have a keyboard and mouse. Would there be support for gamepads? Probably, but there wouldn't be any special treatment for it. Direct-Input (IE: No Aim Assist, no acceleration on input, no other fiddling with hit detection or hitboxes) is really the only way to have a true skill-based contest of dexterity. Forcing people to have to deal with an inferior control system, then to have it bolstered by what is essentially a fail-tastic design basically shows that it's the game that ends up playing a portion of itself for you.

The beta for Battlefield 3 was insane. Aim Assist was so strong that I could literally shoot and kill a target by not touching the right stick. Aim Assist would follow the target entirely. The Aim Assist for Dust is also pretty strong, again removing the need to be precise and to place your shots.

Vetis Cato wrote:

so if it wernt for sony, and its millions of analoge stick users dust would never of happened under any circumstance ever? or no one would of funded it on pc at all?

Dust would have happened anyway in one form or another. Sony just made it easier by providing money.

Back in my day we only had D-Pads. You know what a "D-Pad" was? It was a digital directional pad. It had four buttons, you may have seen one yourself. It was used for EVERYTHING. Movement, aiming, so on. Those analogue sticks of yours sure gives a huge advantage though, you shouldn't be allowed to use them.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 21:47:00 - [1] - Quote sys Ghost wrote: The controller crusaders who are saying everyone needs to HTFU are just afraid of the superiority that KB/M brings. They claim that they can beat KB/M, yet if they really could, they would welcome the newcomers instead of raging. In all honesty they are acting like goons, claiming that something does not matter yer opposing it because they really do fear it. thats the point why controller crusaders as you put it are protesting against kb/m because they have superiority. its un balanced. put it this way. if ccp were to release a new game on PC but gave left handed players an unfair advantage. what do you think would happen? exactly the same as releasing kb/m support as is on console. some would learn to play left handed, others would just fight on right handed. but most pc players would be in uproar, and refuse to play. not giving it the player base it deserves and thus eventually dieing. as long as its balanced i dont mind. i really really wish ccp could give us some offical word as to whats going on with it to stop these endless threads going on about it. starting to get boring.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 22:06:00 - [2] - Quote Phantomnom wrote: Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Phantomnom wrote: Freyar Tarkin wrote: Controllers have their place, just like arcade sticks, the Playstation Move, steering wheels, trackballs, and all those other input methods do. Yeah, the place is consoles. Which we are on. It shouldn't be a "Gamepad only, no other control methods allowed" deal. It should if the primary control method is disadvantaged by the others. as long as its balanced i doubt anyone has an issue with it. being a pc player as much as console i struggle to see this happening. you either dont balance it and ** off your primary player base. or balance it and the kb/m wont feel right for pc players and ** them off. damned if you do and damned if you dont.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 22:18:00 - [3] - Quote *FASTEST THREAD EVER!*
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 22:45:00 - [4] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Tristan Kauls wrote: Nope its the other way around KBM is easier and just simply better for fps games. Yet i hope they dont bring it to the game because it would unbalance this game into oblivion I keep seeing people say this but I am puzzled as to what it means. Is it that it will make certain weapons more powerful than it is designed to be or is just mouse and keyboard users outperforming gamepad users? basically what people are saying is kb/m players have a better accuracy in fps because its points and click. analoge stick users have to have more dexterity to have a good shot. so no its not about quality of a persons skill, its about utilising different skills. kb/m is easier to use then analoge sticks. hence the imbalance
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 22:57:00 - [5] - Quote Freyar Tarkin wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: basically what people are saying is kb/m players have a better accuracy in fps because its points and click. analoge stick users have to have more dexterity to have a good shot. Pfft. No. You've got aim assists and wider hitboxes so even if you are missing you're still "hitting". so do pc players have aim assists. and no its really not that easy to hit people by missing them. hit boxes arnt that bigger then pc (and some games the same). i play both for different reasons. pc my accuracy rating in most games is around the 40% mark, 22% average for console. iv played both for a very very long time. and consider my self a above average player. pc is point and click, analoge requires more dexterity.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:13:00 - [6] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: Freyar Tarkin wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: basically what people are saying is kb/m players have a better accuracy in fps because its points and click. analoge stick users have to have more dexterity to have a good shot. Pfft. No. You've got aim assists and wider hitboxes so even if you are missing you're still "hitting". so do pc players have aim assists. and no its really not that easy to hit people by missing them. hit boxes arnt that bigger then pc (and some games the same). i play both for different reasons. pc my accuracy rating in most games is around the 40% mark, 22% average for console. iv played both for a very very long time. and consider my self a above average player. pc is point and click, analoge requires more dexterity. Only because it is so much more limited. That's why mouse and keyboard aiming is so much better. It doesn't need to slow down your cursor over an enemy, it doesn't need to stick to an enemy. Its effectiveness is so much greater and precise. To a point where none of those artificial boosters are necessary. that is exactly the point as to why the console players are getting irrate about it. because its better. now dust are introducing kb/m on to a console system meaning there putting a system in place that will effectly give an unfair advntage over analoge players. please dont give me the adaopt or die thoery. ccp didnt have to make this on console. so they have to take care of the market they are putting the game too
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:19:00 - [7] - Quote Freyar Tarkin wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: so do pc players have aim assists. and no its really not that easy to hit people by missing them. hit boxes arnt that bigger then pc (and some games the same). i play both for different reasons. pc my accuracy rating in most games is around the 40% mark, 22% average for console. iv played both for a very very long time. and consider my self a above average player. pc is point and click, analoge requires more dexterity. Players on PC (for games that y'know.. aren't given the one-size-fits-all treatment a-la Activision) don't get aim assist. They don't. Hitting a target on PC, is hitting a target. Those hitboxes are proper, and the mouse input is left alone. "Analogue requires more dexterity". I'd argue against that considering more keys, more fine movements on the keyboard. Either way, this is a pretty stupid argument. Mice are better for shooters, everyone in here has pretty much agreed, therefore mice should be an option offered, despite people's fears of it being the "dominating input". there are elitest games your right that doesnt have aim assists. but dust doesnt either and has choosen not to go down the AA route. and as for the analoge im mostly refuring to the targetting sytem. not over all movement. and yes i agree mouse is suprior and that is why consolers are annoyed. they dont have anything against the use of the mouse as long as its balanced so them using there controllers isnt going to be a hinderance. its simple unfair to put a game on console, then shaft console players using analoge sticks. and yes you can go into the point of adapt or die, what if ccp released a new game on pc and said we will be nerfing kb/m users and giving pad users an unfair advantage. would that be fair?
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:20:00 - [8] - Quote Freyar Tarkin wrote: Fatmanpro wrote: Yea stupid console kids They should listen to the PC master race Stupid people with technical backgrounds that research this **. Quote:** that is exactly the point as to why the console players are getting irrate about it. because its better. now dust are introducing kb/m on to a console system meaning there putting a system in place that will effectly give an unfair advntage over analoge players. please dont give me the adaopt or die thoery. ccp didnt have to make this on console. so they have to take care of the market they are putting the game too It's on the PS3 because Sony paid for it. so if it wernt for sony, and its millions of analoge stick users dust would never of happened under any circumstance ever? or no one would of funded it on pc at all?
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:37:00 - [9] - Quote Freyar Tarkin wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: and as for the analoge im mostly refuring to the targetting sytem. not over all movement. and yes i agree mouse is suprior and that is why consolers are annoyed. they dont have anything against the use of the mouse as long as its balanced so them using there controllers isnt going to be a hinderance. its simple unfair to put a game on console, then shaft console players using analoge sticks. and yes you can go into the point of adapt or die, what if ccp released a new game on pc and said we will be nerfing kb/m users and giving pad users an unfair advantage. would that be fair? Your scenario wouldn't work because on the PC everyone would have a keyboard and mouse. Would there be support for gamepads? Probably, but there wouldn't be any special treatment for it. Direct-Input (IE: No Aim Assist, no acceleration on input, no other fiddling with hit detection or hitboxes) is really the only way to have a true skill-based contest of dexterity. Forcing people to have to deal with an inferior control system, then to have it bolstered by what is essentially a fail-tastic design basically shows that it's the game that ends up playing a portion of itself for you. The beta for Battlefield 3 was insane. Aim Assist was so strong that I could literally shoot and kill a target by not touching the right stick. Aim Assist would follow the target entirely. The Aim Assist for Dust is also pretty strong, again removing the need to be precise and to place your shots. Vetis Cato wrote: so if it wernt for sony, and its millions of analoge stick users dust would never of happened under any circumstance ever? or no one would of funded it on pc at all? Dust would have happened anyway in one form or another. Sony just made it easier by providing money. Back in my day we only had D-Pads. You know what a "D-Pad" was? It was a digital directional pad. It had four buttons, you may have seen one yourself. It was used for EVERYTHING. Movement, aiming, so on. Those analogue sticks of yours sure gives a huge advantage though, you shouldn't be allowed to use them. so your saying the scenerio wouldnt work because all pc players use kb/m. all consoles users analoge sticks to the same regard. and again the point of the situation wasnt to theorise the likly hood. it was to question how would you feel if they did, as that is what you are asking console players to accept. some would except it. most would be seriously pissed off rather then feel its a test to there skill. that is how console players feel. otherwise its double standards. and yes im nearly 30 so i know what a d-pad was. and using analoge sticks present a new range of games and advantages. and they tried to introduce k/b into consoles but they just didnt sell. pads are simple. space effecient. alot easy to use anywhere. there are advantages.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.01 23:59:00 - [10] - Quote as i say im not objecting to there use at all. far from it. but they have to be balanced, all inputs have to be on a level playing field. and fact is the mouse gives it an unfair advantage. its made on a console, love it or loathe it but there it is. so they have to consider there primary market. which is stick users. this game has been funded to make someone money, wether it is sony by selling units. or ccp though aurum. if they dont consider the primary market the game will fail. and that means it will get shut down.

Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.02 00:06:00 - [11] - Quote Freyar Tarkin wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: as i say im not objecting to there use at all. far from it. but they have to be balanced, all inputs have to be on a level playing field. and fact is the mouse gives it an unfair advantage. its made on a console, love it or loathe it but there it is. so they have to consider there primary market. which is stick users. this game has been funded to make someone money, wether it is sony by selling units. or ccp though aurum. if they dont consider the primary market the game will fail. and that means it will get shut down. That's like saying a Keyboard ought to be able to emulate analogue input so that it's fair between a racing wheel and a keyboard in a racing game. if the racing game is being "sold" to racing wheel users. but as you said earlier racing and fps are different interms of the input. racing wheel users dont have a noticable advantage over keyboard users. its more about the experience.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.02 09:54:00 - [12] - Quote seriously we could all be here til were blue in the faces. why do pc users have to act all high and mighty, and why do console users have to throw there doll out the pram? no one and i mean NO ONE can suggest that they shouldnt have kb/m support. as long as its balanced and fair. that is the FPS mantra. fairness and a level playing field so that we can all test our skill at shooting. sure dust adds a new twist in it also shows our skill at fittings the right kit, and picking the skills. but its all about show casing abilitys. and to do that you have to have a level field. PC guys and gals, please understand consolers just want it to be fair. Consolers please understand that pc users were promised a medium.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.02 16:03:00 - [13] - Quote last post im putting on this issue, as i really hate going around in circles. but long and short of it is consolers are not lazy at all, your accusations they dont want kb/m in its full "glory" because they dont want to have to go out and buy a set is seriously incorrect (hell if you believe that how would you explain people like me, i have no problem with pc gaming, i do it just as much. but i feel kb/m should be balanced). this has nothing to do with peoples williness to buy a cheap piece of kit to improve there game. hell if anything that would turn dust into a pay to win game. its no different from ccp releaseing a new pack for $10 which makes the hitboxes of the enemy twice the size. all the console community want is a level field to be able to battle on. if CCP dont provide that, they will be loosing a vast majority of there market before the game even gets going. tbh its down to ccp to decied which side of the fence they will sit on. the kb/m players who want to have the un balanced advantage, loosing them alot of potencial players. or that of a kb/m balance loosing a handful of die hards.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 21:44:00 - [14] - Quote seriously this stuff is getting boring now. this is why alot of forums have polls, so we can grasp popular opinion. all i ask is a promise from ccp that they will support consolers if kb/m proves to much of an advantage.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 22:13:00 - [15] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: seriously this stuff is getting boring now. this is why alot of forums have polls, so we can grasp popular opinion. all i ask is a promise from ccp that they will support consolers if kb/m proves to much of an advantage. Sigh I guess. But the worst thing that could happen is that they back out simply out of fan backlash because of conjecture. i agree that would be a shame.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 22:16:00 - [16] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Farson Thrask wrote: I would like to see precisely that. I don't wan't my opponents to be disadvantaged by the DS3. And it could lead to more console games supporting KB/M. Then we can finally get RTS games that don't suck :D now that would be awesome. been a while since i last played a good rts
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 23:28:00 - [17] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Farson Thrask wrote: That KB/M vs gamepad test is a good reason that KB/M should be promoted as a standard console accessory, since the gamepads are so much inferior in FPS gaming. Again (this has been explained about a bajillion times) it's entirely subjective. "easier" does not automatically mean "better." To go back, yet again, to my Hurdles vs. Sprint analogy, sprinting isn't BETTER than hurdles just because it's easier. Go Kart racing is easier than F1 racing, but that doesn't make Go Kart racing "better." Bad controls is a problem, not an intentional challenge to overcome like you seem to imply. seriously.. ds3 is not a bad system, if it was im fair positive the consoler builders would of stopped using them 10 years ago and fps wouldnt be the biggest selling games on consoles.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 23:32:00 - [18] - Quote vote here and let the numbers do the talking... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25124&find=unread
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.05 23:39:00 - [19] - Quote tribu guybrush wrote: I dont get it why ppl whine about mouse and keyboard suppoprt? Nothing stops each and every ps3 owner from using it! And imo its just the same if someone has more powerfull pc that can run one or more eve clients smoothly vs the dude whit lacluster pc and always lagging. ITS YOR CHOISE. Why everyone should have to play whit bad hardware if you like to? Its much like religion always pushing other to your ideology instead of free will and choise. what amuses me about this post is how you end it. its your choose, consoler builds have choosen not to push kb/m because they feel (with there millions in r&d) its unfair. and now kb/m people are forcing consolers to change there input rather then giving them the choice to play with what they prefure. because otherwise there behind and going to suffer in the battle
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.06 00:50:00 - [20] - Quote Farson Thrask wrote: hellcat420 wrote: lol @ keyboard and mouse being new to anyone. the problem is consoles players prefer controllers over keyboard/mouse. that is why they play on console and not pc. what is silly is pc users coming to a console game and demanding an input device that will give an unfair advantage because you cant hack using a controller. You seem to be confused about who is demanding what. CCP has stated since long ago that KB/M would be supported in the game. The only ones demanding anything are those that are demanding that CCP remove KB/M support just because they don't wan't to use it themselves, that is what's silly. actually the vast majority of people, my self inclued. are not wishing it to be gone at all. i fully welcome kb/m, what we want is for it to be balanced so that kb/m offer no unfair advantage to the mouse abilty to be more accurate.

Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.06 00:55:00 - [21] - Quote tribu guybrush wrote: i kinda am im not going to play FPS whit DS3 i might try move but i think its eaven worse.... But realy if there is no workin m&k support i will just enjoy orbital bombing the **** out of console noobs! I have tested the game once and decided its mot playable by my standards whitout mouse. Im all about fee will and choises so i want to coose the natrual & fun way of playing. i do understund the console guys in a way becous all new is naturaly fraighning to human nature. but sayin no to things that arent mandotory to use is kinda silly. to suggest the only reason console players dont want kb/m is because were scared really is very ignorant. for a start need i point out us console players have to be sitting at a pc of some kind using a kb/m to use this forum. but that aside its not to do with kb/m being implimented, its how its put in that conserns consolers. as standard a mouse will out shine a ds3 because its a point and click system if you will. so making the game no fun for those who dont play kb/m (like most of the gamers in dust). hence the debate
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.06 00:58:00 - [22] - Quote Lilianna Sentinel wrote: Vetis Cato wrote: actually the vast majority of people, my self inclued. are not wishing it to be gone at all. i fully welcome kb/m, what we want is for it to be balanced so that kb/m offer no unfair advantage to the mouse abilty to be more accurate. If you're gonna nerf it, there's no point. Nerf the turning speed at most. Don't make the mouse controls really crappy and hard to aim with. Instead, buff gamepads. i definatly agree. i wouldnt want kb/m users experience to be ruined by a silly nerf. hell it would be very double standards of me to suggest i want it to be balanced then ruin kb/m users game wouldnt it. increase hit boxes for pads would be where id start.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.08 11:14:00 - [23] - Quote Mr514 wrote: onlyelisha wrote: This is getting ridiculous. Okay here's my two cents. This is a playstation 3 exclusive game. That means it's a console game. What do console games use? A controller. Honestly, it's just a bunch of people that refuse to learn how to use a controller to play shooting games. I play games both on PC and PS3 and I can use both methods to play FPS games. What is it that the EVE players have been throwing around to everyone that's been complaining, Adapt or Die. Its everywhere, and its going to be everywhere... Well, exclusive for a year, and then on PC and other places.. So eat your words and live today, aswell get a life. As i told a few post's ago, we are living in 2012, where even PS3 is about to be history and put in a box. Keyboard and mouse systems are ALWAYS going to be on things like this AND are working and will always be working best on this kind a games.. And as other people saying, You can always get one of this: http://www.penguinunited.com/ With that any PS3 game what so ever type, can be used with Keyboard and mouse i always find it amusing how people who are for kb/m always seem to suggest the ds3 is an out of date method. yet in relative terms the ds3 is far far far newer then the kb/m if kb/m really rains suprieme over all other controlers then why hasnt sony or microsoft adopted it as there primary control method? hell by doing so they will increase there market to alot of pc players too. so not as if it doesnt make business sense. offically sony and microsoft have renounced using the kb/m any time soon purly because it offers to much of a disparity between players of the same game. as for exclusive for year minium. theres no word that it will ever port to pc. so purhaps get off that high horse of yours? it might do it might not. only ccp knows that. besides as has now been said many many many times kb/m will be in, theres no reason for it not to be as long as its fair for the exsisting console players who will be playing dust. if its really balanced and avaliable then console players if they wish can try it. but at least thats there choice. so what you scared of?
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.08 15:37:00 - [24] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Templar Two wrote: ^^^ Frankly MKB won't be the reason why Dust 514 will fail and CCP will close. What the heck gives you the idea that that's even a possibility? You do realize that this entire project is funded off of what they make -solely- from EVE, right? Part of what they layed out in 2009 was that if some natural disaster were to wipe out the entire player base of EVE or Dust, whichever game was left would still work. The two games cooperate, but are also designed to be self-sufficient within their own bounds. Not having Dust would never kill EVE. hate to point it out but i think sony bought the sole rights, hence one of the reasons (among others) is a ps3 exclusive. so believe sony gave a large part of the funding.
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.10 18:43:00 - [25] - Quote for the love of everything ever will a gm or dev please lock this idoitic thread. now i dont mean idoitic in sense of the people on it (far from it, theres been a lot of insiteful and well thort points made), i mean it being idoitic because its going around in circles. and all its achieved it to widen the gap between the two communitys. both sides are right in there own way. ccp are damned if they do and damned if they dont. the only question they have to ask them selves is which community do they want to aim for
Vetis Cato Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 250	Posted - 2012.07.16 17:49:00 - [26] - Quote Lord Pheal wrote: Ah the days when devs would create their games and people would shut the fk up and play them. But alas, these days are over. Devs don't have control over their games and have to succumb to waves of spoiled bratz crying over mouse kb support in a CONSOLE GAME LOL. and has nothing to do with the waves of spoiled brats who cried to get it included in the first place? i think its safe to say ccp have now got the point the kb/m is a touchy subject and im sure there team will tred carefully. hell for a dev team just to high an economics proffessor so as to not upset the games market. means they care alot about there games. how about we stop moaning and acting like school children in the play ground and let it go already. if when they finally show us kb/m support and either side has a problem then let them voice it (as long as its constructive)