1. if you use a keyboard/mouse, why bother putting it on a consle with MOVE/Dualshock3??

2.only ppl who play PC games would consider CCP putting in mouse/KB funtion. this isnt the PC, its a PS3. how many games you know on consles use KB/M function on any system?

I said the same thing in the previous pages.
Thought you said it far more synthetically which means you said it better.

Apologies for the double up, Templar. After twenty-something pages it gets to be a blur and I am sometimes guilty of skimming at that point. I hope I'm not doubling up again with my next point:

What is the point of having an ENTIRE keyboard at your disposal for a game designed on a controller? Answer: Hotkeys. And that gives a huge advantage to KB/M users over a controller user with shortcuts up to wahzoo!

So we could go back to the previous point and say there won't be any Hotkeys options for balancing reasons, so then I ask again: What is the point of having an ENTIRE keyboard at your disposal?

I wonder if we will be able to play with any KB/M or a specific companies/type.
Would be nice to use my Razer,even cooler if I could use a nostromo. lol

Back in 2007, Shadowrun came out and was the first game (I believe) to allows cooperative play between a console and PC. Immediately it became apparent that KB/M users had the upper hand due to the better responsiveness KB/M offers. That game quickly fizzled.

Back in 2007, Shadowrun came out and was the first game (I believe) to allows cooperative play between a console and PC. Immediately it became apparent that KB/M users had the upper hand due to the better responsiveness KB/M offers. That game quickly fizzled.

I play shooters on both console and PC, and while I agree KB/M is the way to go, I would hate to see what happened to Shadowrun happen to this game. The balance issues were never addressed and so people quit playing. If they were able to somehow balance the control scheme (and let's be honest, they would have to tweak KB/M alot) then I see no problem allowing KB/M. Heck I would use it myself! BUT the amount of tweaks they would have to make would probably upset KB/M users.... (I realize balance issue has been addressed several times in the thread already)

Someone posted a comment about the number of users on PS3 vs PC. Yes millions vs just 400k seems like a no brainer. Should KB/M not be enabled, this game would still survive for awhile because tho KB/M may not stick around, there's still millions of people playing. The problem is CCP would be harming themselves for they are isolating a particular category of players, many who have been supporting the company for several years. From a business stand point, that's not smart either.

Many people have stated the reason they bought a PS3 was to play Dust. So let's get this straight, you bought a $300 dollar device capable of dvd, blu-ray, steaming movies, music, social networking (a la Playstation Home), Internet browsing, and playing games just to play one free-to-play game and if it doesn't work out you're gonna return/sell it? Sounds like a silly investment right now for something that is still in Beta and being worked on.



No matter what happens, in the end there is never going to be any winning on this issue. We're beating a dead horse.

ccp are damned if they do and damned if they dont. the only question they have to ask them selves is which community do they want to aim for

KB/Mers will still win at the end of the day, only there will be a large technical and cash investment to do it. With proper native support, people will at least be able to use it, or at the very least try it out without having to buy an expensive adapter, install Ubuntu, and configure it. The battle is more between choosing to let KB/M be used by everyone, or a small group of players with expensive hardware.

You could also say that cheaters will always abuse exploits so why not make the exploits really easy so anyone can cheat. That doesn't make it right.

Then get into specifics: Why do you prefer gamepad over mouse and keyboard?

You could also say that cheaters will always abuse exploits so why not make the exploits really easy so anyone can cheat. That doesn't make it right.

It doesn't make it right, but at the same time, saying that "It's not right" isn't going to stop people from abusing it. Look back at Halo 2 for a moment. Double-shots and the infamous BXR were hated by many a player. It wasn't the way the game was intended to be played. It wasn't right. Bungie tried fixing it, they failed in most cases. It inevitably became part of the game, and in order to be good, you had to learn the exploits, or be outclassed by those that did.

Incidentally enough, the same thing happened with Skiing in the original Tribes. It ended up becoming a major part of gameplay in Tribes 2, and Tribes: Ascend.

Granted, the control scheme debate is not a simple debate of embracing a bug, but it's close enough.

Don't get me wrong. I see your point. However, the situation is much more complicated then people think it is.

There are four major fundamental issues:

A. This is not a situation that can be easily resolved or fixed.
B. KB/M being a no-go might actually be worse for the game then adding it.
C. CCP made a promise that KB/M support would be added.
D. This is a situation that involves clashing cultural norms.

Although I'm on the opposite side of this issue, I will say that this post by Nashor is a good one. Well written and lays out the pro KB/M argument in a concise manner.

My thoughts on it:

A- 100% true

B- I don't agree. I think it will alienate the people (console gamers) that CCP is trying to reach out to. If DUST is mostly comprised of Eve players (or if that's how CCP wanted it), then CCP should have just made the game for the PC. It's a very strange move to make a game for one market, and then give players from another market a leg up, in terms of familiarity and ease of use in how the two markets play games. Why release it on PS3 in the first place if you're going to (at least in the eyes of console players like myself) make the game harder for them and easier for PC familiar players? Aiming is 85% of the game, after all. It may be an MMO, but it's a shooter as well.

C- CCP only promised that KB/M support is coming to the Beta. It's very possible (and I'll admit, wishful thinking on my part) that they want to test it first to see how it goes. Another point here- they originally said they wouldn't include it, but the EVE players were very vocal and managed to change their minds.

D- Again, 100% true.

I commend you, Nash, for a great post. I don't agree with all of it, but I see where you are coming from. I think this single issue could propel or hinder this game from true greatness. If people feel it's unfair (on either side), then a game that is mostly about making money is going to be a tough sell to gamers of either party. A rock and a hard place on this one.

Hello everyone.

To keep you informed on this subject, KB&M support is coming. We currently plan to release it in the next major beta patch (build).

yup because spinning twelve times aroound the y-axis in a split second is immersive, and exactly how a character in real life would behave (real life as in - Make the game believable to a certain point to make said game immersive)....

To a certain extent, I agree with the wait-and-see approach. For isn't that the central reason for beta testing? It's all about bringing the game to a proper balance. My question would be whether CCP has the tools to allow themselves to track the various M&KB vs. DS3 data. If not, there would be no concrete way to measure any performance variance between these groups outside of the predictable threads of griping and boasting and other anecdotal suppositions. And if we rightfully assume CCP is concerned with this all-important balance, how would they otherwise insure these controls haven't rendered a profound rift between these two control types? (Note that I will be ignoring Move, as do 99.9% of other gamers.)

Beyond this, I agree with the OP that CCP needs to provide a rationale behind their decision to add M&KB controls in what, for the time being, at least, is a console exclusive. The stated reasons for bringing Dust to PS3, namely, to expand the market for the EVE universe, would be directly contradicted by the inclusion of M&KB support. Your meat-and-potatoes console gamer would sooner jump over to the next in a steady stream of AAA FPS games than plug in a M&KB. The fact that he HAS THAT OPTION, is a moot point. He simply doesn't want to. If he feels the playing field is uneven, he'll just move on to one that is.

For most, the console experience is about relaxing on the couch in front of an HDTV. This, again, the vast majority, would rather power down and grab another beer than go through the hassle of hooking up a (to them) cumbersome control interface along with the added discomfort of having to install themselves before a desk or other flat surface. If they can't compete, they'll move on. And then, tell me, who will play Dust? Outside of Eve guys, the hardest of core gamers, and the stray drunken glutton who is only killing time before the next COD, who is left to "seed the universe?" They'll be no market expansion. No new blood. CCP's goals for Dust will remain out of reach.

This issue may be singly the most crucial to determining the long-term success of the game. To paraphrase the OP, if they intended to include M&KB support, (or to be so easily swayed by their cantankerous base), then why bother releasing it on PS3 to begin with? If all they're doing is caving to the protests of EVE players, then fine, they'll reset the hook of those people already hooked. Eve players can go about hiring themselves in Dust. The system will be a closed one. A zero-sum game.

Many of us were attracted to Dust by its potential to be something more than just the next, big FPS: the promise of emergent gameplay and the ability to carve out our own niche in such a rich, expansive universe. Unfortunately our enthusiasm could die in one fell, 180-¦, M&KB swoop when the next update lands. It could be a crisis in the vein, if not the human scale, of the Black Death, where Dust is Europe, and over half of the population is extinguished. An event that changed the historical winds and determined a new course to society's composition. To that handful who survives and sticks around. Have fun playing with yourselves.

You wouldn't realistically set your sensitivity that high.


On the good side, I can't wait for KB/M support. Will now play this game :)