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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 44 post(s) |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8452
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:10:00 -
[181] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote: This is the biggest problem with everything. That dial needs to be turned down so people are more willing to throw down. If you want people to throw down, make it worth their while. Punishing the non-stompers will create more problems than it'd solve.
Carrot > Stick
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
472
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:10:00 -
[182] - Quote
Instant kick from academy with 10+ kills in a single match, since the matchmaker will now only pit you against low_Mu, the academy isn't the only safe place anymore. [/quote] Is this like getting kicked from FW for Friendly fire? Instant in game before end of match |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
1333
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:12:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Joseph Ridgeson wrote:So now my little ego is going to be shattered by being not being put up against the super players...
Leave it to a DUST player to find SOMETHING to cry about! If you are "truly" better and close to the threshold, you will quickly graduate to the upper bracket by winning matches, and vice versa, if you were unluckily good as a new player, you may end up dropping (safely) to the lower bracket. Sounds a bit like how Starcraft does their matchmaking. Anyways, matchmaking is cool, and has been desperately needed. But what happens when a top tier player like myself doesn't have the funds or desire to run a proto match. Am I really on the same level as somebody that runs proto, over myself running standard gear. With the large differences between gear, I would like to also be matched with people running my same level of gear. Now before people uproar, I want to be matched with other players my skill level, but restricted to a tier level of gear, with payouts that reflect this. To me, this would be like the icing on the cake for matchmaking. Other than that, I'll check this matchmaking out this evening, but from what I've seen of it so far, well done. I'd take a match where at least everyone throws in some effort, over those where they just throw clones at it, or sit in the redline and wait it out. I mean, stomping is fun the first time, but when every match is like that, it get BORING, and the win becomes meaningless. Good question and something that has been raised before. Good players don't need proto gear to be good. Proto gear needs to be used in PC to match against other good players, and that's where gear becomes the potential decider, that extra little something. Playing in ADV gear in pubs does not change the fact that you know the maps, you have situational aweareness, you know (even if you can't explain it) where enemies usually pathfind and where to expect them, you know when to switch to sidearm and to cook your grenade, you know when to duck and weave, or when to retreat. All these things are in your advantage as a veteran, and gear is just a tiny part of it. When 6 super soldiers are squading together, they could all be in all miltiia and still win, they just go proto because they can, and that it is likely that they will still turn a profit. When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill.
I will disagree that gear doesn't hold a large advantage. If it was just a minimal advantage, then PC matches would have some mixed in. But they don't and we always joke about those that don't run it.
You don't see people running lesser gear in PC because it IS inferior to the other options out there. A pro vet will beat out a pro in ADV or STD gear most of the time. I do get where you are coming from, because I do it myself in my cheap frontline setup. But when I come against other squads running coordinated with full proto, it really becomes blurred.
A full milita squad of vets WON'T beat out a full proto squad of vets. This is delusional, and PC should be an example of this. Your new matchmaking is placing vets against vets, I'll give it that. But your matches are still very lopsided because when one chooses to run the best of the best while another needs to make a little isk, it should be obvious who will win.
When I run milita or basic gear, I have to play at the top of my game to down a single proto suit. Because often I won't hold the eHP to take that proto weapon, and my basic weapon won't have the damage to down his eHP in a reasonable time. So whats that say about the proto suit playing at the top of it's game?
People may complain about a COD or even Destiny PVP, but at least when you go in, you know you won't be beat out because you choose to run something weaker. You mostly have just as good a chance at killing as your enemy. WIth dust you DO have tiers of power, and I don't think you should be ignoring that fact.
This isn't your run of the mill shooter. This has RPG elements that DO make a difference. You want evenly matched games, then tiering your game mode, same as you do with gear, will make that happen. A STD squad VS a STD squad IS even. A STD squad VS a PRO squad is NOT evenly matched in the least bit.
I'm sure there are many out there that can agree with this. In any case though, I like the effort. I'm sure the newbs are having a MUCH better time of it. Which is a very good thing as those are the lifeblood of this game.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
19539
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:12:00 -
[184] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's going to take penalties for leaving matches. Put people that leave matches a lot in a queue that throws them into matches already in progress. Two birds, one stone. You guys are looking at this all wrong, and pandering to stompsquads won't earn you any points with the casuals. Most people play games to have fun. There's nothing fun about lopsided matches, so people aren't playing them; trying to force players to play simply won't work. There are better ways to address this. CCP Rattati wrote:When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill. How much does that one kill cost? IDGAS
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion.
502
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:16:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's going to take penalties for leaving matches. Put people that leave matches a lot in a queue that throws them into matches already in progress. Two birds, one stone. You guys are looking at this all wrong, and pandering to stompsquads won't earn you any points with the casuals. Most people play games to have fun. There's nothing fun about lopsided matches, so people aren't playing them; trying to force players to play simply won't work. There are better ways to address this. CCP Rattati wrote:When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill. How much does that one kill cost? IDGAS
#Devhax
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8452
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:16:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill. How much does that one kill cost? IDGAS With respect, sir, that isn't sustainable over the long-run if you're playing lots of matches every day.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
1334
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:19:00 -
[187] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's going to take penalties for leaving matches. Put people that leave matches a lot in a queue that throws them into matches already in progress. Two birds, one stone. You guys are looking at this all wrong, and pandering to stompsquads won't earn you any points with the casuals. Most people play games to have fun. There's nothing fun about lopsided matches, so people aren't playing them; trying to force players to play simply won't work. There are better ways to address this. CCP Rattati wrote:When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill. How much does that one kill cost? IDGAS
Some of us don't have unlimited resources, you know.
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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gustavo acosta
Capital Acquisitions LLC Bad Intention
1099
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:31:00 -
[188] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:
Some of us don't have unlimited resources, you know.
Well seeing as how isk is generated every match without clear source, I'd say everyone has unlimited resources tbh.
GimmeDatSuhWeet isk
We found a new pope to teach shield users how to shield tank, all hail pope redblood the 6th
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
497
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Posted - 2015.04.02 02:34:00 -
[189] - Quote
Remove the ability to see who you're fighting against
Less squads leave, less matches ruined....
Also a map preview so those inclined to back out of the train map can do so early
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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The Dark Cloud
Negative-Feedback.
4270
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:03:00 -
[190] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:Remove the ability to see who you're fighting against
Less squads leave, less matches ruined....
Also a map preview so those inclined to back out of the train map can do so early lol no. They will just leave when one of the big names pop up on the killfeed or they get killed 2 times in a row.
I make the scrubs scream and the vets cry.
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Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:14:00 -
[191] - Quote
Change the mechanics that let Protostomps happen and people will fight more. 4 Man squads. Give all suits the same number of slots, base stats and PG/CPU should be the difference, not the number of slots a suit has at Basic/Adv/Pro.
Do those two things and you will get a lot better fights happening.
Anyway, my experience today on 6 matches running solo. 3 utterly lopsided matches, my side had at least 4 fewer players starting the match, needless to say 2 mins in it was easy to see we were getting stomped as a result, mass quits resulted. 2 protostomp matches against. 1 protostomp match I ended up on the right side of.
At that point I'd done my one win of the day and gave up on the MM for today. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
8453
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:17:00 -
[192] - Quote
Nevyn Tazinas wrote:Change the mechanics that let Protostomps happen and people will fight more. 1. 4 Man squads. 2. Give all suits the same number of slots
#1 makes sense to me. #2 does not.
Suits are closer to balanced now than they'd be if they all had the same slot counts.
Shoot scout with yes.
- Ripley Riley
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Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:23:00 -
[193] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Nevyn Tazinas wrote:Change the mechanics that let Protostomps happen and people will fight more. 1. 4 Man squads. 2. Give all suits the same number of slots
#1 makes sense to me. #2 does not. Suits are closer to balanced now than they'd be if they all had the same slot counts. As in all Amarr Logi suits have the same number of slots. Regardless of level. Not that all Sentinels have the same slots as Logi. |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization
1560
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:26:00 -
[194] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:A full milita squad of vets WON'T beat out a full proto squad of vets. This is delusional, and PC should be an example of this. Your new matchmaking is placing vets against vets, I'll give it that. But your matches are still very lopsided because when one chooses to run the best of the best while another needs to make a little isk, it should be obvious who will win.
When I run milita or basic gear, I have to play at the top of my game to down a single proto suit. Because often I won't hold the eHP to take that proto weapon, and my basic weapon won't have the damage to down his eHP in a reasonable time.
With dust you DO have tiers of power, and I don't think you should be ignoring that fact.
A STD squad VS a STD squad IS even. A STD squad VS a PRO squad is NOT evenly matched in the least bit.
Good points.
Tebu Gan wrote:I'm sure the newbs are having a MUCH better time of it. Which is a very good thing as those are the lifeblood of this game.
Yeah, at least some good has come out of it. I'm glad for them, they've had it too hard for too long. We all need decent matches though, and I've had to resort to FW to get some full 16v16s going. Gotta make my SP somehow, even if it costs me ISK, lol.
Rare Item Trades
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2611
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:32:00 -
[195] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's going to take penalties for leaving matches.
Put people that leave matches a lot in a queue that throws them into matches already in progress. Two birds, one stone. It's an opportunity to bring in some New Eden.
Realistically, corps would rate mercs. And also realistically, contract managers from different corps would talk & trade information. A merc's reliability & work ethic would be paid for in contract negotiations.
This means that while a high mu would be good, a high 'reliability' rating would be good too.
Bailing at the beginning of a match after signing a contract? That would be bad.
PSN: RationalSpark
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CCP Rattati
C C P C C P Alliance
19551
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:35:00 -
[196] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:It's going to take penalties for leaving matches. Put people that leave matches a lot in a queue that throws them into matches already in progress. Two birds, one stone. You guys are looking at this all wrong, and pandering to stompsquads won't earn you any points with the casuals. Most people play games to have fun. There's nothing fun about lopsided matches, so people aren't playing them; trying to force players to play simply won't work. There are better ways to address this. CCP Rattati wrote:When I see one of these veterans, I will spend all the battle just getting a single kill on them, because if they go 20/1, it was me that got that kill. How much does that one kill cost? IDGAS Some of us don't have unlimited resources, you know.
What, you don't have starter loadouts. Better send in a ticket.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Nevyn Tazinas
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:37:00 -
[197] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote: It's an opportunity to bring in some New Eden.
Realistically, corps would rate mercs. And also realistically, contract managers from different corps would talk & trade information. A merc's reliability & work ethic would be paid for in contract negotiations.
This means that while a high mu would be good, a high 'reliability' rating would be good too.
Bailing at the beginning of a match after signing a contract? That would be bad.
So if I get a 16/11 player match up game, I'm penalised for not suiciding again and again when outnumbered badly? I had one of those today at the very start of the game. Good way to make people quit when MM screws them over and then they can't quit without getting further screwed so have to just run the timer down till the MCC goes boom in the redline. |
DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
949
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:40:00 -
[198] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:On a related "stomp mentality" that I find absolutely pathetic.
Story time:
I was playing as a new character this morning, to try out the lower Mu bracket.
After a while, I start seeing familiar names on the killscreen, going maybe 20/5, which is basically an exit criteria on its own.
I got curious, and looked up the top ranking players on both sides for my matches.
They were ALL alts of veteran players, freshly created today!
Not only that, but I could see all of their second alts, were scheduled for removal.
So tomorrow, they will have a fresh alt, and schedule today's alt for removal.
I am competitive, but what drives players to do this, slaughter players that are in many cases patently helpless?
The Academy is for new players to get their bearings, relatively risk free. Learn the maps, drop an uplink, spawn on uplink, try out the starter fits, scan, and hack.
Whatever, just writing this makes me furious. Just thought I would share that some will go to incredible lengths to grief, or pad their self esteem.
I'm not surprised. The academy is a "multiplayer" tutorial, which is flawed by design. The only way to give new players a proper tutorial is by way of a "single player" tutorial. There is no other way. It's been done that way since the first games decades ago.
Even the original Tribes game offered a single player tutorial mode for new players that wanted it, before going "online" |
Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2612
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:44:00 -
[199] - Quote
There's a lot we can do to limit squads bailing. If i was a contract manager i'd offer mercs a choice: post a bond and qualify for higher payouts or don't post a bond and take a lesser cut of the loot. I'd set the bond at the average payout for a merc's mu.
For this toon that'd be about 250k ISK.
PSN: RationalSpark
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
949
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:54:00 -
[200] - Quote
A long time ago, eve online mission agents were divided into tiers of quality. Higher quality agents paid more isk. The requirements for access to higher quality agents was based on personal standing with said agents.
What if we could place EOM rewards on a system where rewards be reduced or increased? For players that team kill or leave matches early, they would soon find themselves with reduced rewards. Playing and completing matches would increase you're standing or security status and grant you increased rewards over time.
A limit could be allowed so players could quit a match if needed or if they're disconnected due to some other reason. Say the limit is once per every 4 hours you can quit a match early without being penalized. |
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general drake55
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.04.02 03:59:00 -
[201] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The Academy is for new players to get their bearings, relatively risk free. Learn the maps, drop an uplink, spawn on uplink, try out the starter fits, scan, and hack.. Allow the academy to only be visited once per ACCOUNT instead of based on character age. Sure, you can make a second PSN account, but that is more difficult and requires a separate sign-in. That might discourage this kind of behavior. That will happen as soon as possible. its sad some players go to great lengths to "Destroy" a new players hopes and dreams,and to add insult to injury,they label new players "noobs",and try to discredit them.
fight for freedom and what's right,only you have the power to stop the madness.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2613
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:20:00 -
[202] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
A long time ago, eve online mission agents were divided into tiers of quality. Higher quality agents paid more isk. The requirements for access to higher quality agents was based on personal standing with said agents.
What if we could place EOM rewards on a system where rewards be reduced or increased? For players that team kill or leave matches early, they would soon find themselves with reduced rewards. Playing and completing matches would increase you're standing or security status and grant you increased rewards over time.
A limit could be allowed so players could quit a match if needed or if they're disconnected due to some other reason. Say the limit is once per every 4 hours you can quit a match early without being penalized.
It works and it's immersive. Since we can't choose the corporations we fight for it's a little different in Dust.
It's more like the New Eden Corporations are hiring out of a merc 'union hall'.
We're really starting to feel the lack of a contract system in Dust. It would answer a lot of the game's needs in a completely immersive fashion, and if built with an eye to the future could eventually be our primary content generator.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1127
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:46:00 -
[203] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote: The irony of this claim is that what's really killing Dust is the lack of any matchmaking. In fact, lack of any matchmaking was the main reason why we have a small player base to begin with. Any veteran will tell you that. If the matchmaking that you are testing out is indeed working then there is hope because this means I will be less likely to enter a match where I'm either the hammer or the nail.
This message typifies the misguided morals that have led Rat to waste time on this matchmaking mess in the first place.
Dust has a small player base and noobs don't have a chance not because of Dust's lack of matchmaking, but because Dust has a suite of mechanics baked right into the core that make for redline games:
- A tiered gear system with far too substantial utility gaps between gear tiers
- Defense-obsessed game modes
- Lack of secondary objectives in game modes
- A mediocre spawning system that at its best relies on players spamming uplinks to provide even slight effect
- Clone counts in Skirmish and Domination
- Almost exclusively close-quarters-centric map design
those are just a few off the top of my head. The myth of the magic matchmaking that will somehow fix or mask the deep issues in Dust's match-to-match gameplay has been repeatedly perpetuated as a surrogate problem for deeper issues. We've already tried patching match-making something on the order of 3 times, why would it suddenly become a panacea for Dust's condition this time?
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
Have a pony
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8213
Blauhelme E.B.O.L.A.
2218
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:48:00 -
[204] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players,
I want to give a short update on what's happening with Matchmaking.
TLDR; it's working, and it's definitely pitting similar players together. We will share more data once we have collected a full 24 hour cycle from DT to DT.
Are you trying to troll? How about a game where 16 players are playing 16 players... You're 5th attempt at matchmaking is broken because YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO CODE!
Ich mag Katzen :3
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
694
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:49:00 -
[205] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:A little update on how I played. https://twitter.com/Henry_Haphorn/status/583339403512156160I can't say for certain that there were no squads in my team as it's possible there was at least a squad filled with randoms. But the opposing team clearly did have squads though they came in 3 pairs. This was in the tunnel map with Alpha in the center. The first 5-7 minutes of the match seemed balanced as both teams were constantly going back and forth with the objectives switching sides more often than a politician. At this point I thought to myself "Huh, a real challenge. Nice." But then after that it was getting slow for some reason as the objectives stopped switching sides so often with only one being captured once in a while. The opposing team was at least holding onto the Alpha objective but they were losing. What I found a little strange was that we were missing players in our team and they had 3-player advantage with clearly known squads. So I expected them to make a rebound at the second half of the match but nothing much happened. The opposing team eventually lost.
That is my experience as well. Played yesterday and the games were initially even (in my opinion). The opposition really pushed for the objective, and then it just stopped...? The game suddenly switched to redlining / stomp. The shift was so sudden I really noticed the change when it happened, but it was only at the end-of-match screen I understood why.
16 vs 6
Now, my question is: Is this really players leaving deliberately, or are they somehow disconnected / partially disconnected? This happened a lot yesterday (much more than usual)
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The Eristic
Dust 90210
849
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:56:00 -
[206] - Quote
Six matches so far, mostly loooong waits, 3 put me on sides with less than half the clones of the other (one was 4 to 43!), 2 of 3 full matches were still stomps but a bit slower than usual. Same people in *every* match (Carne, NS, SoG, 1up). Seems waiting to try to get out of sync with their queues doesn't matter anymore. Maybe needs a few days, but I'm not really sure why I seem to be stuck with them.
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
694
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Posted - 2015.04.02 05:03:00 -
[207] - Quote
I think it's time to pick up the Trello card with squads (4), platoons (8) and Battleforce (16) |
John Psi
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance
1493
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Posted - 2015.04.02 05:17:00 -
[208] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The Academy is for new players to get their bearings, relatively risk free. Learn the maps, drop an uplink, spawn on uplink, try out the starter fits, scan, and hack.. Allow the academy to only be visited once per ACCOUNT instead of based on character age. Sure, you can make a second PSN account, but that is more difficult and requires a separate sign-in. That might discourage this kind of behavior. That will happen as soon as possible.
Maybe u need add 20-30 achive battles to enter academy?
Please support fair play!
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic
2613
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Posted - 2015.04.02 05:43:00 -
[209] - Quote
Just played two complete(start to finish) matches on my alt. Full rosters with no quitters.
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooo! That's no country for old men
The fights were tough and desperate, the pressure never let up. Final results were close. The end of match board is a helluva lot more interesting. Loading into the second fight i could feel the adrenaline ramping up.
Prolly had to queue 6 matches, some almost over, some partway over to get two good ones. But on balance worth it, imo. Maybe we have a few parameters to tweak before things are running smoothly, but given the quality of the matches tonight it's well worth it.
The quality of Dust matches(when everything works) has improved significantly because of the matchmaker, imo.
PSN: RationalSpark
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ANAHEIM Darko
Corrosive Synergy Rise Of Legion.
156
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Posted - 2015.04.02 06:10:00 -
[210] - Quote
2 quick matches this morning.
Ambush - on a team of 6 reducing to 5 versus 10. Tough, but we won. Enjoyed, buy big map for so few players.
Full roster dom thereafter, pretty much got redlined but both teams fought hard.
Few tweaks maybe, but thumbs up from me.
CalAss Grunt. Former Eve Pilot.
--Cellar Door
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