Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1127
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
The irony of this claim is that what's really killing Dust is the lack of any matchmaking. In fact, lack of any matchmaking was the main reason why we have a small player base to begin with. Any veteran will tell you that. If the matchmaking that you are testing out is indeed working then there is hope because this means I will be less likely to enter a match where I'm either the hammer or the nail.
This message typifies the misguided morals that have led Rat to waste time on this matchmaking mess in the first place.
Dust has a small player base and noobs don't have a chance not because of Dust's lack of matchmaking, but because Dust has a suite of mechanics baked right into the core that make for redline games:
- A tiered gear system with far too substantial utility gaps between gear tiers
- Defense-obsessed game modes
- Lack of secondary objectives in game modes
- A mediocre spawning system that at its best relies on players spamming uplinks to provide even slight effect
- Clone counts in Skirmish and Domination
- Almost exclusively close-quarters-centric map design
those are just a few off the top of my head. The myth of the magic matchmaking that will somehow fix or mask the deep issues in Dust's match-to-match gameplay has been repeatedly perpetuated as a surrogate problem for deeper issues. We've already tried patching match-making something on the order of 3 times, why would it suddenly become a panacea for Dust's condition this time?
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1127
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Posted - 2015.04.04 22:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:On a related "stomp mentality" that I find absolutely pathetic.
Story time:
I was playing as a new character this morning, to try out the lower Mu bracket.
After a while, I start seeing familiar names on the killscreen, going maybe 20/5, which is basically an exit criteria on its own.
I got curious, and looked up the top ranking players on both sides for my matches.
They were ALL alts of veteran players, freshly created today!
Not only that, but I could see all of their second alts, were scheduled for removal.
So tomorrow, they will have a fresh alt, and schedule today's alt for removal.
I am competitive, but what drives players to do this, slaughter players that are in many cases patently helpless?
The Academy is for new players to get their bearings, relatively risk free. Learn the maps, drop an uplink, spawn on uplink, try out the starter fits, scan, and hack.
Whatever, just writing this makes me furious. Just thought I would share that some will go to incredible lengths to grief, or pad their self esteem. What the ****.
I'm not condoning the mentality behind this behavior, but your level of shock and disgust is really surprising. You realize you're working for the same company that produced this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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Leither Yiltron
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1127
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Posted - 2015.04.04 23:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
That doesn't have anything to do with this. What's being pointed out here by Rattati is the fact that veterans are constantly recycling their alts in an effort to stay in the academy to continue stomping new players into the ground.
Stop using language meant to stereotype. There is a ton of insidious "us" vs. "them" rhetoric going around currently, and I feel like the posts I've seen from you have perpetuated it non-stop. This language is making good conversation about matchmaking and its effects completely impossible, and instead turning into a mutual whine-fest. I'm a "vet", and I've never "cycled alts" to stomp academy players. Nor has the vast majority of people I've ever associated with in Dust, and that is quite a large number. The observation that some tiny insane fragment of the playerbase do something awful is literally the essence of New Eden.
Maken Tosch wrote:
If what Rattati is saying is true, then we have a deeper problem than I thought and it's a problem that no amount of proper matchmaking is ever going to fix. So not only are we seeing certain veterans leaving matches when facing against equally-skilled players, we are now seeing veterans doing their very best to stay in the academy while stomping new players. This is damaging.
This quote has similar themes, and really the theme is similar to all of your posts. If I were playing right now, I would probably be leaving matches- not for my KDR. My KDR has been ticking down for years, IDGAF. Rather, it's because there's absolutely zero fun to me to have to "escalate" my gear and tank my ISK efficiency while still potentially losing a match, all so that I can scrape together the resources to have an enjoyable match.
The mountain of confirmation bias coming from MM supporters is monstrous. It's like the preference is to stick fingers in ears and create this rich internal narrative about the "awful veterans" and their "KDR bias" while the "simple player" just tries to "make in-game ends meet". Matchmaking isn't a political jousting match about social inequality. People leave matches because they're not having fun.
I've said it once and I'll continue saying it until I'm blue in the face. There are a gigantic mountain of factors which culminate into discouraging players to finish out a Dust match that they're losing. Even if you try to force people to stay in match, they're going to end up sniping. Here are just a few on that list:
- Gear tiers with far too much additional effectiveness as one goes up in tier
- Lack of secondary objectives, which allow entrenched defenders to easily gain and maintain a lead in matches
- Lack of proper dynamic spawning, again allowing entrenched defenders to maintain their positions. Additionally exacerbates the pain of dying, since finding a safe spawnpoint near to the action is hellish
- Map designs that emphasize defensive, CQC play
- Mostly very short range on all credible anti-infantry weaponry
These things are, and have been for the last two years, crippling, glaring flaws in Dust's in-game, public match (even PC match) experience. Their combined effect is to discourage losing teams to fight back if they don't have a sincere chance of turning the match around. Typically, turning a match around takes far more coordination than any public match team is going to exhibit. Even in PC it takes an incredible effort with very low chances of success.
Dust is a game that encourages snowball matches in general, and in public matches the gear tiers and incentives further reinforce the issue. Thinking that matchmaking can make up for that is like thinking if you have some really good glue, you can put a shattered pane of glass back together.
@Rat in particular, your "I can make the proto guy go 20/1" mentality is incredibly uncommon, and even further it's not even backed up by facts. For years I played with that theme, thinking "man, I'm taking ISK off this high roller" whenever I killed a proto guy. Fact is, there are plenty of people out there who can easily eat the cost of hundreds of proto suits due to PC glitches. It really doesn't matter to them. Meanwhile, spending the match trying to outplay someone not just a little bit, but gigantically so that you can overcome their suit's natural advantage...that's not fun gameplay. Frankly, that's real life. I come to play games for balance, and if I wanted to grind against inequity I would just chalk up those hours to activism instead.
Long term roadmap by Aeon Amadi
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