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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4876	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:54:00 - [1] - Quote Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4876	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:07:00 - [2] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Only problem I have is the scout restrictions. Generally spawn in an advanced scout with cloak and drop 2 flux uplinks. Then on next spawn I spawn with an adv scout with remotes and cloak. Now, I am ok with a nerf where I can't run around covering loads of objectives with remotes with my uplinks still up. But I think it is too much of a nerf not being able to use remotes at all with a couple of uplinks running. Give scouts the same bandwidth as assaults and there will be no problems as far I'm concerned. Scouts shouldn't be the kings of deployables, I agree, but they are a central part of our battlefield role. 2 uplinks and a remote isn't spam or game breaking in my opinion. I agree, 2 uplinks and a remote should be viable for Scout, Assault, Commando and Sentinel (if set with a previous fit). All combat fits should have the same Bandwidth. It will make it less complicated to keep track of when switching fits to adapt to a changing battlefield. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4877	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:30:00 - [3] - Quote John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4878	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:53:00 - [4] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. Exactly. The idea that if you want uplinks or ammo around "not only you must be a amarr or caldari Logi, you must only be these logis and anytime you are not one of these logis all of your stuff will die" Why would i want to restrict myself to just these suits every match? The example given only works out in the Gal facility, otherwise i do want my friend who threw down some uplinks to change suits to fight at the point because we need him there. I do want to be flexible enough to say "right, we formed a good battle line with hives and links but the red are pushing, i'll repawn as a heavy to hold tight, or an assualt/commando to hit em from range, or a scout to flank" without having to choose between perma running one suit to have any sort of equipment available to the team. I donGÇÖt mind so much having Bandwidth difference for Logi. Bandwidth will be GÇ£their thingGÇ¥. Someone who wants to play the Logi role will be fine with playing a Logi the whole match. They can still add their gun to the fight. What it will discourage is people who play other roles having a Logi Uplink fit that they use to seed an area and then switch to their main suit. I do this, and I will miss it, but as long as all suits have the bandwidth for a couple of pieces of equipment you can still deploy a few critical pieces of equipment, if you are not a Logi specialist. Which leads me back to a point I have been making. All non-logi suits (including Sentinel) should have the same Bandwidth, because Bandwidth is a Logi thing, and it should be kept simple for us non-logi. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4878	Posted - 2014.11.18 14:55:00 - [5] - Quote John Psi wrote: Vell0cet wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So you want players to spam equipment and then go hide in the redline? That's what would happen. What we do on the battlefield - assumes responsibility. Fighter who launched equipment, should feel responsible as large as his equipment helps his team. Otherwise, it will look as if I could die, but my rifle continued to fire at the enemy. Launched equipment - is also means of combating, like a rifle. When I throw a Grenade, and I die, I still believe that Grenade should go off! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4879	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:01:00 - [6] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Only problem I have is the scout restrictions. Generally spawn in an advanced scout with cloak and drop 2 flux uplinks. Then on next spawn I spawn with an adv scout with remotes and cloak. Now, I am ok with a nerf where I can't run around covering loads of objectives with remotes with my uplinks still up. But I think it is too much of a nerf not being able to use remotes at all with a couple of uplinks running. Give scouts the same bandwidth as assaults and there will be no problems as far I'm concerned. Scouts shouldn't be the kings of deployables, I agree, but they are a central part of our battlefield role. 2 uplinks and a remote isn't spam or game breaking in my opinion. Meh, I personally disagree. I could understand having two low profile uplinks deployed behind enemy lines to give your team an advantage but having the ability to remote an objective (or god forbid start blowing up entire squads) on top of that, as well as all the inherent bonuses that a Scout gets to general combat as it is... Doesn't seem very fair. Personally, I think Scouts need to have more of a hard-chosen fitting scheme where they have to consider their options -before- spawning and I think having reduced equipment slots would be a good way of doing that. I advocated, back in 1.8, that Scouts have two equipment just to try it out. I even said, "They've been under powered for so long, let them be OP for a month". It's been over a year now, so I think it's time we try looking at other avenues to bring them back down in balance. Scouts have 2 equipment slots. Assault have 1 equipment slot. Give the Scout the same Bandwidth as the Assault. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4879	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:06:00 - [7] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Another idea on top: A module that increases equipment bandwidth, sacrificing a bit of your suit to increase your support powah. Or a piece of equipment that increases your equipment BandwidthGÇª Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4879	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:08:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: John Psi wrote: It's very simple - the equipment running from any suit should not live longer this suit. Suit die or refitted - equipment DOWN. So the roll of a Logi should be to cower in a corner once all their equipment is deployed? Nono, as long as you respawn in a Logi again, they stay up. I know, I was responding to John Psi's suggestion of how things should be. Just pointing out a glaring flaw in his suggestion. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4880	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:13:00 - [9] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. Exactly. The idea that if you want uplinks or ammo around "not only you must be a amarr or caldari Logi, you must only be these logis and anytime you are not one of these logis all of your stuff will die" Why would i want to restrict myself to just these suits every match? The example given only works out in the Gal facility, otherwise i do want my friend who threw down some uplinks to change suits to fight at the point because we need him there. I do want to be flexible enough to say "right, we formed a good battle line with hives and links but the red are pushing, i'll repawn as a heavy to hold tight, or an assualt/commando to hit em from range, or a scout to flank" without having to choose between perma running one suit to have any sort of equipment available to the team. I donGÇÖt mind so much having Bandwidth difference for Logi. Bandwidth will be GÇ£their thingGÇ¥. Someone who wants to play the Logi role will be fine with playing a Logi the whole match. They can still add their gun to the fight. What it will discourage is people who play other roles having a Logi Uplink fit that they use to seed an area and then switch to their main suit. I do this, and I will miss it, but as long as all suits have the bandwidth for a couple of pieces of equipment you can still deploy a few critical pieces of equipment, if you are not a Logi specialist. Which leads me back to a point I have been making. All non-logi suits (including Sentinel) should have the same Bandwidth, because Bandwidth is a Logi thing, and it should be kept simple for us non-logi. I find it very fitting for scouts to not have as much bandwidth as the Assault or Commando. We are limited by having 1 equipment slot, scouts having 2 makes them tread dangerously to Logi territory, and as such should have slightly stricter bandwidth. WouldnGÇÖt giving them the SAME Bandwidth as a suit with only 1 equipment slot already do that? Why make Bandwidth complicated for non-logi? Why not extend Bandwidth to ALL equipment. I am sure the Rep Tool is not manually operated. You might aim it, but it is your suitGÇÖs onboard computer that controls the stream to compensate for distance and interference. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4880	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:33:00 - [10] - Quote John Psi wrote: Guys, Ratatti, let me explain what is happening now. In serious fights we have the following scenario: 1. At the beginning of battle HALF fighters planted in logi. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to assaults/scouts/etc 3. No logi in a fight. Equipment Bandwidth did not save us from the problems, scenario would be: 1. At the beginning of battle ALL fighters planted with equipment fit variant. 2. Equipment spam, die or refit to simular Bandwidth suit (battle fit variant). 3. No logi in a fight. I understand that the current scenario is simple and effective. Just want to remind you that we wanna play not a Mario style game. 1)Your suggested solution of having equipment die when the person who places them dies will mean that every member of the team will have to quip Uplinks all the time, just to insure there are always uplinks up. No one would play logi, because the only effective way to keep your Uplinks up after you placed them would be to withdraw from the fight. No team wants to be down a man, so Logi would be useless in PC. 2)With RattatiGÇÖs Bandwidth solution, an entire team of non logi would not be able to place more equipment than two Logi with multiple fits in the current scenario. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4881	Posted - 2014.11.18 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: WouldnGÇÖt giving them the SAME Bandwidth as a suit with only 1 equipment slot already do that? Why make Bandwidth complicated for non-logi? Not really, we have more bandwidth than we actually need for one equipment. Giving scouts the same amount would make them slightly too free with equipment, at least in my opinion. Then have Bandwidth apply to all equipment, not just deployables. Have the Scout CPU/PG reduction bonus to fitting the Cloak also apply to Cloaking Device Bandwidth. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4881	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:04:00 - [12] - Quote So, my suggestions so far: -Make Bandwidth apply to all equipment. -Give Scouts a Bandwidth reduction bonus for Cloaks. -Give all non-logi suits, including Sentinel, the same Bandwidth by suit tier. -Add a piece of Equipment that will boost Bandwidth, but will take up an Equipment slot. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4883	Posted - 2014.11.18 16:50:00 - [13] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: We would need clear UI to tell us bandwidth information. It needs to not clutter our screen, so only make it active when we have equipment out, and it should tell us these things: Total bandwidth on the suit Bandwidth currently used List of equipment deployed, the bottom equipment being destroyed in the case of bandwidth overload Currently held equipment How much the currently held equipment will take from said bar I have made an illustration of what I mean (Excuse my very basic knowledge of photoshop): http://i.imgur.com/l4n5ef9.jpg - Enough bandwidth to drop equipment http://i.imgur.com/XmeNLg5.jpg - Not enough bandwidth to drop equipment In the equipment list, green is the item not yet deployed, blue are the deployed items, and red is the item that will be destroyed upon deployment of green. Nice mock-up. That would be very helpful. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4883	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:06:00 - [14] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point. For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak. For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit. Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando. Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi. What has been taken into consideration to negate this? It would be a question of whether keeping the first two (or 3) pieces of equipment you dropped is more important than changing roles to react to a new situation. Maybe it would be better to change from a Rifle Logi fit to a Mass Driver Logi fit, rather than switching to a Sentinel? Maybe it is worth sacrificing some equipment to bring an HMG Sentinel in for point defence. Remember, the last couple of equipment you deployed will still be active (provided they give the Sentinel some Bandwidth). I see your point and partially agree with you, but I also think that Logi bonuses should only be available to Logi suits. I am all for switching fits to match the situation, but there has to be a limit to how many roles you can play at one time. It is not like ALL the Logi equipment will pop, just the some of it. In the current game, if I am running an Assault suit and placing Remote Explosives to guard objectives, and then I decide I need to place an Uplink, I have to sacrifice the ability to detonate the Remote Explosives to do so. It is a tactical decision over what is more useful to the team at that time. Sacrifices must sometimes be made. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4883	Posted - 2014.11.18 17:08:00 - [15] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Yes, you made a decision to sacrifice one advantage for another, or you can choose to not do that. That's kind of the point. For a scout yes, its which peice of quipment do i carry while i'm slaying. A scouts bonus isn't tied to equippment save a cloak. For any player running a logi, you have to sacrifice every other suit your specced into just to keep uplinks/nanohives up. The changes drastically restrict anybody running a logi to one suit. Any player not running deployables can switch between a scout, heavy, logi, assault, commando. Any amarr logi can only run amarr logi, and lose everything if he spawns anything other but an amarr logi. What has been taken into consideration to negate this? We can switch to a scout, heavy, log, assault and commando while giving up the strengths and weaknesses of our previous suit for the strengths and weaknesses of a new suit. Logis are no different, their strength being a lot of equipment, weakness being general combat ability. Sometimes you are more eloquent and concise than I am. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4888	Posted - 2014.11.18 18:50:00 - [16] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: WouldnGÇÖt giving them the SAME Bandwidth as a suit with only 1 equipment slot already do that? Why make Bandwidth complicated for non-logi? Not really, we have more bandwidth than we actually need for one equipment. Giving scouts the same amount would make them slightly too free with equipment, at least in my opinion. Then have Bandwidth apply to all equipment, not just deployables. Have the Scout CPU/PG reduction bonus to fitting the Cloak also apply to Cloaking Device Bandwidth. Why run a cloak then, just double down on REGÇª That won't really be a positive thing judging by peoples vitriol for REs Most of the complaints about Scouts using Remote Explosives come from their use in combat, and in such situations Scouts usually only have 1 or 2 Remotes active at a time. So no matter which scenario you consider, it will not stop Scouts from using RE in that manner. Besides, my suggestion goes hand in hand with giving Scouts the same Bandwidth and a suit with only 1 equipment slot, so Scouts would not be able to place any more RE than an Assault suit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4891	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:27:00 - [17] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point. There has been a lot of talk about a nerf to heavies, hmgs, or both, because of "heavy spam". However it is the current game and map meta not the class balance which feeds this proliferation of heavies. The Sentinel frame has zero equipment slots using depot/spawn swap as is currently possible gets around one of the fundamental drawbacks built into the frame and adds to the excessive proliferation of Sentinels on the field because if you can provide your own deployable support, gain scout level eWar from a friendly scout on the field, and use a LAV or DS for mobility the question effectively becomes why not use a Sentinel? The context which creates that last question needs addressed both for diversity of game play and for the preservation of the Sentinel role itself. 0.02 ISK Cross Meaning in a public match where no one is placing Drop Uplinks I canGÇÖt in good contentious play a Sentinel. Are you going to take away my ability to hack objectives next? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4891	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:32:00 - [18] - Quote Nonoriri ko wrote: I would like to see more hive types than just health and ammo. A hive that scans its area(inside the bubble) and relays to team. Great for choke points or objectives. A hive that allows a certain number of suit changes, like a supply depot. Best for last, a hive that links to another hive, when players on your team click on it or step on it, they teleport to the other hive. Like a "press circle to confirm" button. I think that last one would be an Uplink variant, not a Hive. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4892	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:40:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point. There has been a lot of talk about a nerf to heavies, hmgs, or both, because of "heavy spam". However it is the current game and map meta not the class balance which feeds this proliferation of heavies. The Sentinel frame has zero equipment slots using depot/spawn swap as is currently possible gets around one of the fundamental drawbacks built into the frame and adds to the excessive proliferation of Sentinels on the field because if you can provide your own deployable support, gain scout level eWar from a friendly scout on the field, and use a LAV or DS for mobility the question effectively becomes why not use a Sentinel? The context which creates that last question needs addressed both for diversity of game play and for the preservation of the Sentinel role itself. 0.02 ISK Cross On the contrary, Heavy proliferation started when they got an inadvertent buff in 1.8 when all weapons -besides- HMGs received a 10% damage nerf and Proficiency was changed. The HMG had a really good balance in 1.7 due to the implementation of proper spread and increased rate-of-fire (which sky rocketed it's DPS) but that balance was upset when it's DPS was left alone by comparison of it's competition. Scouts as well are remarkable counters toward Heavy spam because of their low profile and incredibly high alpha damage between Shotguns and Nova Knives. This, bearing in mind that shotguns haven't changed much, Scouts did. If HMGs received a DPS nerf to compensate for what the rest of us are dealing with, I think it'd establish a good balance. More-so then heat mitigation gameplay ever will. Talking 5%, 10% at most. It's not something we couldn't undo if it wound up being problematic either but experimenting with heat mitigation every hotfix clearly isn't warranting enough of an impact. Again, as previously stated elsewhere, the problem isn't so much the one heavy as ten heavies stacking on top of one another. That is something heat mitigation will never fix. In the run-up to 1.8 I stated that the HMG should get the same damage nerf that the other Automatic weapons got. I had forgotten about that, but having been reminded of the 1.8 automatic weapon nerfs, I totally agree that an equivalent small DPS nerf to the HMG is warranted. I still think the heat changes are a good thing. The Assault role should be easy, with bonuses that make the Infantry Rifles easier to use. Every other role, including HMG sentinel, should require some player skill to master. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4892	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:46:00 - [20] - Quote Just for clarification, this change is meant to: -Nerf equipment spam. -Nerf Scouts. -Nerf Sentinels. -Nerf/Buff Amarr/Caldari Logi? Did I miss anything? How many birds are we trying to hit with this stone? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4892	Posted - 2014.11.18 19:52:00 - [21] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Logistics vs other Dropsuits One of the key aspects of this proposal is that all Equipment is tied to the active Dropsuit of the Player. Switch from a suit with a high Bandwidth to another suit with lower Bandwidth, and the signal is lost. This means that starting as a Logistics dropsuit, throw down as much cheap Equipment as possible, then switch into another Logistics dropsuit at a Supply Depot, repeat and then finally switch into another role, Sentinel, Scout, Assault or Commando, will not be possible anymore. One thing I'd like to point out here is that currently, equipment bonuses seem to disappear when you die. This is most noticeable as the Amarr logi, if you try to respawn on your own links you will see the spawn timer is the base length of the drop uplink without the amarr logi bonus. This change might have the unintended effect of destroying some (all?) of the logi's equipment when they die, regardless of if they respawn in the same suit Just want to make sure you tested this to make sure suit bandwidth actually persists while respawning since the amarr logi bonus doesn't If that happens it would happen to every suit, not just the one with the Bandwidth bonus. So I am sure testing will catch it. MrShooter01 wrote: Now, about scouts: If I'm reading the spreadsheet right, I can only toss one RE at the standard tier? That kinda sucks for vehicle hunting It'd take a lot more work to blow a tank with one RE at a time! Could I talk you into say giving the standard scouts 6 bandwidth and reducing RE cost to 2, allowing a scout to place 3 remotes while still not being able to place more than one piece of other equipment? Or perhaps RE cost to 3 and ADV scout bandwidth to 9? Throw me an explosive bone here! A very good point! If a Scout can't deploy 3 Remote Explosives at the same time that is a major AV nerf! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4894	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:01:00 - [22] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Only problem I have is the scout restrictions. Generally spawn in an advanced scout with cloak and drop 2 flux uplinks. Then on next spawn I spawn with an adv scout with remotes and cloak. Now, I am ok with a nerf where I can't run around covering loads of objectives with remotes with my uplinks still up. But I think it is too much of a nerf not being able to use remotes at all with a couple of uplinks running. Give scouts the same bandwidth as assaults and there will be no problems as far I'm concerned. Scouts shouldn't be the kings of deployables, I agree, but they are a central part of our battlefield role. 2 uplinks and a remote isn't spam or game breaking in my opinion. Meh, I personally disagree. I could understand having two low profile uplinks deployed behind enemy lines to give your team an advantage but having the ability to remote an objective (or god forbid start blowing up entire squads) on top of that, as well as all the inherent bonuses that a Scout gets to general combat as it is... Doesn't seem very fair. Personally, I think Scouts need to have more of a hard-chosen fitting scheme where they have to consider their options -before- spawning and I think having reduced equipment slots would be a good way of doing that. I advocated, back in 1.8, that Scouts have two equipment just to try it out. I even said, "They've been under powered for so long, let them be OP for a month". It's been over a year now, so I think it's time we try looking at other avenues to bring them back down in balance. I tend to agree, Scouts have been doing everything well for some time now. I have been doing this since chromosome. This has nothing to do with having two equipment slots or 1.8. The fact is, deployable equipment is an important part of being a scout as it goes well with stealth and mobility. It is a major reason why the extra slot was given for the cloak. I'm not asking for more bandwidth than an assault. If you want to nerf scouts can we please focus on what is causing the problems rather than throwing the nerf bat around willy nilly. I've accepted the idea of being nerfed to only one RE plus links. I think that's enough. I agree. Placing uplinks behind enemy lines I believe is one of the ScoutGÇÖs primary roles. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4896	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:09:00 - [23] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: And that's -exactly- the point. If a player can out-maneuver the heavy he's -supposed to die- and they have no problem with that because we ditched slower turn speeds (justifiably so) a long time ago. A Heavy can whip around just as fast as anyone else and they have enough defense to be able to react whilst getting shot at but not only that they can apply so much DPS that they can often kill the person shooting them before they go down. Actually the HMG has a slower turn speed than any other weapon. It was the reduced turn speed on the suit that was removed. If a Sentinel switches from his HMG to his sidearm he can both turn and sprint faster. That being said, the turn speed on an HMG is only slightly slower than the turn speed on a Shotgun. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4897	Posted - 2014.11.18 20:24:00 - [24] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I am against the idea of bandwidth. Not only does it limit what suits I can use, but it hurts Cal and Amarr logos harder since they focus on deployables. Why not just decrease uplink spawn count and increase amount carried? This means you can spam them as long as you are constantly deploying them since they'll run out much faster. when i run proto i have reptool and injector but also uplinks (max of 3 active) and hives (max of 3 active) but yes like you said.. for cal and amarr it would basically kill the caldari logi once and for all.. where as amarr logis only redemption is sidearm and highest ehp of the 4 races logi suits. proto cal logi would mostly be injector-hive-hive.. now the hives coudl be the varients whcihc get up to 4 active.. they need the ammo.. they need the triage.. with out all those hives on their suit they are done for.. for amarr.. injector uplinks uplinks.. its not the logi role or the equipments fault.. its the fault of stupid goddamned equipment spammers who spam equipment at supply depos and then switch to their chosen slayer suits.. (usually 50% scouts and 30% sentinels 15% assault 5% logi) BANDWIDTH LIMITS WILL KILL LOGISTICS! I believe that the idea was to increase the amount carried and the amount deployable for higher tier equipment, and having Bandwidth control how many you can deploy. So Amarr Logi could go with Injector, Repair Tool, Uplink, and use all their Bandwidth deploying that one type of Uplink. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4901	Posted - 2014.11.18 21:51:00 - [25] - Quote No Bandwidth for Sentinels: After thinking about this long and hard I have come to grudgingly accept this. If it reduces the number of casual Sentinels then that would be a good thing. However, in a match where non of the Blueberries are placing Uplinks, I am still not sure whether this means I can say GÇ£thatGÇÖs not my jobGÇ¥, or whether it will mean I will have to give up playing Sentinel for the remainder of the match? That is my ethical dilemma. Scouts having Crap Bandwidth: 1)If a Scout canGÇÖt place 3 Remote explosives, then that is a major nerf to AV. I am not OK with that. 2)I still believe that placing Uplinks behind enemy lines is as much a core part of the ScoutGÇÖs Role as hacking behind enemy lines is. Suggestion: Give Minmatar and Amarr Scouts more Bandwidth. The Caldair and Gallente Scouts can be the Anti Infantry Scouts, and the Minmatar and Amarr can be the Tactical/AV Scouts. Complicated system with each suit having a different Bandwidth: I suppose I am ok with this as long as the interface is well done and provides the information we need to make decisions. I donGÇÖt want to have to do complicated math every time I select a fit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4927	Posted - 2014.11.19 14:34:00 - [26] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: With respect Fox being stuck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point. With respect Cross, when I made my earlier posts I was working off the assumption that the sole purpose of this change was to reduce Equipment Spam by not allowing Logi to drop more than one suitGÇÖs worth of equipment, and to prevent Logi from switching to other classes while maintaining a full Logi load out of deployed equipment. What was not made clear in the original post is that this change is intended to deal with multiple issues: 1)Decrease Equipment Spam 2)Discourage Role Switching. Increase the commitment to the role you spawn into. 3)Nerf Scouts who act as fast Logi. 4)Nerf Sentinels who try to get around their lack of an equipment slot. 5)Buff Caldari/Amarr Logi, provided they stick to their role. It was not clear initially in RattatiGÇÖs post that discouraging Role Switching was an intended consequence of the introduction of Bandwidth. In a way this will help new players who only have the skill points to specialize in one role, as it will be easier for them to compete against Vets who have mastered multiple roles if the game discourages role switching during matches. It will be an adjustment, but I can accept the Sentinel not having any Bandwidth. What I still have a concern with: I am concerned about the Bandwidth nerf to Scouts. First, I think that Scouts are out of Balance because they can be made to be too robust without major drawbacks, and because the Assault suit, which is supposed to act as the Counter to Scouts, does not have the tools to counter Scouts. Second, I fell these Bandwidth changes are trying to nerf some of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role, which is operating and insertion behind enemy lines, and CQC AV work. Placing Drop Uplinks behind enemy lines is part of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role! Placing Remote Explosives on tanks is one of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Roles. (Before sticky Remotes, the Remotes were placed on the road and the Scout hid and activated the Remotes when the tank rolled past, to begin their ambush.) Scouts also have to operate independently. While an Assault suit can rely on equipment provided by other members of their squad, a Scout operates independently much of the time. Having two slots gives a Scout more resources to work with, having the Bandwidth of a suit with only one equipment slot would give a Scout the equipment abilities of one half of two Assault suits. (2/1=1) I think that is reasonable. Having the Band width of a suit with only one equipment slot would also define the difference between the Scout and the Logi. A logi can deploy all their equipment at the same time, while a Scout would have to choose between one type at full deployment capacity, or two different types of equipment at half deployment capacity. Nerfing the Scout to have less than a single equipment slot suit is unwarranted. It is not an appropriate way to nerf Scouts. The difference between Scouts and Logi, besides Logi being able to deploy more equipment, is that Scouts are supposed to be more fragile than Logi and not appropriate for use on the front line in head to head combat situations. The fact is that Scouts are not as Fragile as they are supposed to be. Or more accurately, Armour Plate stacking Scouts have more survivability than Logi, and have therefore supplanted Logi in the Logi role on the front lines. Having Armour Plate reduce strafe speed is the type of nerf we need to balance Scouts, not limiting their Bandwidth! And to be clear, I donGÇÖt play Scout. (I would like to, but I suck at it for many reasons.) So I am looking at this from a wider game perspective. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4927	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:19:00 - [27] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Aeon, a lighter suit can use its mobility and radar superiority to achieve the correct geographical or position based advantage required to beat a heavy. The reality is that most people in lighter suits do not. They want to run and gun, oblivious to their surroundings and twitch shoot their way to the top of the killboard like a 13 year old on redbull. Heavies stop them from doing that, and there are a lot of people with the mentality that it should be both allowed, and promoted. Although I feel that you and Aeon both swing too far on your respective sides of the pendulum when it comes to HMG Sentinels discussions, I do fully agree with this. Something that might help: Can we have Frame Size indicated for dots shown on the Radar? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4927	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:37:00 - [28] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. With respect Fox being suck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point. There has been a lot of talk about a nerf to heavies, hmgs, or both, because of "heavy spam". However it is the current game and map meta not the class balance which feeds this proliferation of heavies. The Sentinel frame has zero equipment slots using depot/spawn swap as is currently possible gets around one of the fundamental drawbacks built into the frame and adds to the excessive proliferation of Sentinels on the field because if you can provide your own deployable support, gain scout level eWar from a friendly scout on the field, and use a LAV or DS for mobility the question effectively becomes why not use a Sentinel? The context which creates that last question needs addressed both for diversity of game play and for the preservation of the Sentinel role itself. 0.02 ISK Cross Meaning in a public match where no one is placing Drop Uplinks I canGÇÖt in good contentious play a Sentinel. Are you going to take away my ability to hack objectives next? Honestly that's a false corollary, hacking is not a role just as the ability to kill at all is not a role. One cannot balance a team game around always providing for solo player utility within a totally disorganized team. A meaningful role cannot be based on something everyone in every fit can do. If every fit had 4 equip slots, an heavy weapon, 2x LW, a racial LW buff and eWar to the gills there would be no diversity, no choice, no specialization. These changes do not in any way take away your ability to do more than one thing in a match, they just reduce your ability to do more than one thing at the same time. So a proper corollary would be taking away your ability to hack while shooting red dots at the same time and if that were in question - rather than the current baseline - yes I would support that as a change also. There are many metrics showing a trend towards over proliferation of heavy use and thus cries for a nerf are steadily increasing, I for one would much rather see heavies not be able to 'self logi' than see their role as point defense crippled. And I say this as someone who as proto in all four Sentinel suits. This will meaningfully effect how I play the game at present, especially those days when I'm running solo, but that challenge for me does not mean it's a bad change for the health of the game. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross, my second comment was a bit obtuse, but what I was getting at was that Sentinels not being able to use equipment limits their ability to earn War Points compared to every other class, and then on top of that CCP Z mentioned at Fan Fest that they were thinking of taking away the SentinelGÇÖs ability to Hack Objectives in Legion, which would leave Killing as the only way for HMG Sentinels to earn WP. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4928	Posted - 2014.11.19 15:55:00 - [29] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: At first i thought this would be bad, read it and its genius. Assaults can carry 1 nano hive and resupply themselves and logis can drop a bunch. But does this stop people from having 6 nano hives on 3 suits and placing 18 down? If your last suit only has the Bandwidth for 1 Nanohives, then the other 17 Nanohives will go "POP". If your last suit only has the Bandwidth for 6 Nanohives, then the other 12 Nanohives will go "POP". Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4928	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:02:00 - [30] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Stuff Well, a few things about that, first the direct method described is stacked rather than objective. In the game under a BW mechanic you would not need to take the time to destroy those deployed items nor would you be facing a team free of the same mechanical constraints you are operating under. Leaving that aside what you describe is frankly non-problematic, those players in as logi stay as logi and actually play the role as opposed to the current method of spawn once, deploy everything ditch the logi suit and play only heavy on that point defense throughout the match from then on, because really once you have already self logi'ed rep hives and uplinks why *wouldn't* you just play heavy on that point? And if the best way to run logi is often to not even be in logi suit for the majority of the match then what is the value/point of the suit/role? If this results in a large number of HMG Sentinels switching to playing Logi only, that would make me very happy. If this results in a large number of Logi/HMG Sentinels switching to playing Assault because they can no longer have the best of both worldsGÇª That too would make me very happy! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4928	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:08:00 - [31] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: I guess I'm still unclear as to how this works. If you are saying it is Dropsuit based, then it's bandwidth per dropsuit? As in, Spawn Amarr logi, spam uplinks, then spawn Cal Logi and spam hives because I have another 24 BW? This is how it all works now. Or is it bandwidth per person, no matter what race or dropsuit you spawn? As in I spawn Amarr Logi, spam uplinks, then spawn in Cal Logi and spam hives, but all my Amarr Logi uplinks pop. I'm thinking this is how it will work, which is awesome. Second scenario sort of. When you switch to your Cal Logi, every time you toss out a Hive, one of your earlier Uplinks would "POP". Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4928	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:09:00 - [32] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Can we also make equipment hackable in the same update? Please ?? :3 I play Sentinel... if I hack it, it would go "POP". ... unless it was like a hacked vehicle, and still belonged to the person who spawned it, using some Red Dot's Bandwidth until they used their Bandwidth for something else... If I could hack an enemy NanoHive to replenish my Burst HMG that would be splendid! ... Of course a Sentinel is at its most vulnerable when hacking. Even when they stop hacking there is a short delay before they can shoot. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4928	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:44:00 - [33] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I still have five more pages of this thread to get through, but I wanted to reiterate a point that I noticed was getting looked over multiple times. Many people have incorrectly assumed that this proposal will shoe-horn people who like to use equipment into Logistic roles under the following premise: "If I die and switch to a different suit, all of my equipment is destroyed. The only way I can use equipment is to deploy it as a Logi and hide from the battle. Thus, I am forced to either pick one suit class for a whole battle. Why CCP?!" According to my understanding of the system, the statement above is false. In actuality, ifI start the match as a Logi with 24Bw (For the sake of argument) and use up all of my bandwidth to put down equipment in the order - Flux Uplink Gauged Uplink Triage Nanohive Remote explosive - then when I switch suits, my equipment will be destroyed in reverse order until I reach my new suit's bandwidth. That is to say that I would still have an active Flux and Gauged uplink on the field, but no nanohive or remote explosive. Thus, no one is being "shoe-horned" into a role. If you plan on making dynamic changes to your loadout, then plan your equipment deployment carefully. For the sake of opening more options, I could agree with a module that increases a suits Bw (up to a maximum suit value of 24) so that players who wish to sacrifice something to keep their equipment alive in a different suit would also have recourse to do so Close, but it would be the first and second pieces of equipment you placed (the Flux Uplink and Gauged Uplink) that would "POP", not the two most recently placed pieces of equipment. Think of it this way. You spawn in at the beginning of the match with a Logi suit. You get to the Large Socket and place an Uplink just outside the wall. Then you get within 40m of an Objective and you place a second Uplink. Finally you get to the Objective and place a third Uplink close by. When you die you respawn in an Assault suit with less Bandwidth. It would be that first Uplink outside of the Large Socket that would "POP", not the one you placed last by the Objective. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4930	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:58:00 - [34] - Quote Juno Tristan wrote: Scouts have a lot of advantages at the moment so I would advocate a lower bandwidth than all other suits on the condition a new scoutly uplink is created that has a low bandwidth/spawn count/scan profile/timer to establish forward positions that logis and heavies can then strengthen Bandwidth is not the way to nerf Scouts! EWar Scouts are not the problem. Plate Stacking Scouts are the ones that are impinging on the Assault and Logi roles. Having Plate reduce the Strafe speed of Light Frame suits is a better approach to balancing Scouts. Nerfing Scout Bandwidth is a direct attack on the core infiltration and insertion role of the Scout. If your team is Redlined, you don't use a Logi suit to try to get an Uplink into the middle of the map! That is the Scout's job! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4930	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:13:00 - [35] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: P.S. Was thinking about how to explain this. It's actually a 'stack' in computing lingo. Another way to remember how equipment destruction works in Rattati's proposal is FILO: First In, Last Out(i.e. the first piece of equipment you lay down will be the last one destroyed as you lay down more equipment or change suits). You got it backwards. It is not a 'stack'. Bandwidth is First in First out. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4938	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:03:00 - [36] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. This is what this change is designed to prevent. I had originally thought that it was to prevent a team from having 30 Drop Uplinks deployed, rather than to prevent a team from having 3 uplinks deployed. I had thought that Logi were the cause of the Uplink Spam. However, I have learned from reading this thread that those Logi who cause Equipment Spam all switch to HMG Sentinels after they have deployed 2 or 3 Logi suits worth of equipment, which explains where all the extra HMG Sentinels came from. As a dedicated Sentinel since 1.3 I always looked at it as a sacrifice to have to spawn in a different fit to help the team when no one was placing Uplinks. Instead I learn that many people do this as an exploit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4943	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:30:00 - [37] - Quote Meee One wrote: "REs should have lower BW to accomidate scouts". -No,scouts aren't supposed to be the equipment king,logistics is. -And it should be assaults not scouts doing AV. Medium frame suits don't run fast enough to get in close to Tanks without being slaughtered. They can do it sometimes, but not as reliably as Scouts can. Placing REs on Tanks is really not an Assault or Logi role. Meee One wrote: Regardless of any excuses,only equipment spammers will try to find ways to wriggle free of this new idea. If you want to run equipment,you're going to have to run logistics i'm afraid. By saying this you are simply dismissing every concern about Bandwidth as just Spammer QQ. If we assume out of hand that there are no problems at all with the Bandwidth proposal, and it requires no critical examination or discussion, then what was the point of Rattati posting it on the Forums in the first place? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4943	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:47:00 - [38] - Quote shaman oga wrote: I initially thought that it was a good idea, but now i realize this will create more problems than opportunities. With current design you can't: Place a hive for the ammo and swap to heavy. Attach 3 RE (minimun required to destroy a tank) without a PRO scout. Place a decent proxy mine field and change suit, even if it only takes 2 BW, you have to place at least 8-10 mines to create a DECENT mine field, but then even if you swap to another logi, you can't drop nothing or it will make disappear your mine field. This thing of BW can be good for EVE drones in a point and click game, but it should not be in a FPS where you need to take fast decision in a short time, it will add a stress element to a game which is already stressful by nature. [1] Place a hive for the ammo and swap to heavy. Apparently that is part of the intent. It makes Sentinel's more dependent on Logi. It also kills the solo Sniper Sentinel, which I do not think is a bad thing. (That is a Commando role.) Sniper Sentinels and Forge Gun Sentinels will need a Logi friend to set them up with Nano Hive and Uplink, which encourages cooperative game play. [2] Attach 3 RE (minimun required to destroy a tank) without a PRO scout. I fully agree that a Standard Scout needs to be able to place 3 Remote Explosives. I favor giving the same BW to Standard, Advanced, and Proto suits. Logit should have BW increase tied to their Logi suit skill, not the suit tier. [3] Place a decent proxy mine field and change suit, even if it only takes 2 BW, you have to place at least 8-10 mines to create a DECENT mine field, but then even if you swap to another logi, you can't drop nothing or it will make disappear your mine field. Proxy mines need to be buffed so that one type of Proxy mine is enough to kill something, without having to lay out multiple types. They said that Proxy mines would be looked at. [4] This thing of BW can be good for EVE drones in a point and click game, but it should not be in a FPS where you need to take fast decision in a short time, it will add a stress element to a game which is already stressful by nature. A proper UI that gives you the information you need will allow it to work fine in an FPS. Cat Merc explains how it should work here. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4943	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:08:00 - [39] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Cross Atu wrote: With respect Fox being stuck playing a suit with bandwidth if you want to have equipment deployed at any given level is exactly the point. With respect Cross, when I made my earlier posts I was working off the assumption that the sole purpose of this change was to reduce Equipment Spam by not allowing Logi to drop more than one suitGÇÖs worth of equipment, and to prevent Logi from switching to other classes while maintaining a full Logi load out of deployed equipment. What was not made clear in the original post is that this change is intended to deal with multiple issues: 1)Decrease Equipment Spam 2)Discourage Role Switching. Increase the commitment to the role you spawn into. 3)Nerf Scouts who act as fast Logi. 4)Nerf Sentinels who try to get around their lack of an equipment slot. 5)Buff Caldari/Amarr Logi, provided they stick to their role. It was not clear initially in RattatiGÇÖs post that discouraging Role Switching was an intended consequence of the introduction of Bandwidth. In a way this will help new players who only have the skill points to specialize in one role, as it will be easier for them to compete against Vets who have mastered multiple roles if the game discourages role switching during matches. It will be an adjustment, but I can accept the Sentinel not having any Bandwidth. What I still have a concern with: I am concerned about the Bandwidth nerf to Scouts. First, I think that Scouts are out of Balance because they can be made to be too robust without major drawbacks, and because the Assault suit, which is supposed to act as the Counter to Scouts, does not have the tools to counter Scouts. Second, I fell these Bandwidth changes are trying to nerf some of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role, which is operating and insertion behind enemy lines, and CQC AV work. Placing Drop Uplinks behind enemy lines is part of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Role! Placing Remote Explosives on tanks is one of the ScoutGÇÖs Core Roles. (Before sticky Remotes, the Remotes were placed on the road and the Scout hid and activated the Remotes when the tank rolled past, to begin their ambush.) Scouts also have to operate independently. While an Assault suit can rely on equipment provided by other members of their squad, a Scout operates independently much of the time. Having two slots gives a Scout more resources to work with, having the Bandwidth of a suit with only one equipment slot would give a Scout the equipment abilities of one half of two Assault suits. (2/1=1) I think that is reasonable. Having the Band width of a suit with only one equipment slot would also define the difference between the Scout and the Logi. A logi can deploy all their equipment at the same time, while a Scout would have to choose between one type at full deployment capacity, or two different types of equipment at half deployment capacity. Nerfing the Scout to have less than a single equipment slot suit is unwarranted. It is not an appropriate way to nerf Scouts. The difference between Scouts and Logi, besides Logi being able to deploy more equipment, is that Scouts are supposed to be more fragile than Logi and not appropriate for use on the front line in head to head combat situations. The fact is that Scouts are not as Fragile as they are supposed to be. Or more accurately, Armour Plate stacking Scouts have more survivability than Logi, and have therefore supplanted Logi in the Logi role on the front lines. Having Armour Plate reduce strafe speed is the type of nerf we need to balance Scouts, not limiting their Bandwidth! And to be clear, I donGÇÖt play Scout. (I would like to, but I suck at it for many reasons.) So I am looking at this from a wider game perspective. First off scouts "ScoutGÇÖs Core Role" is not nor ever intended to be AV. This was just a mere side effect of them getting the extra equipment slot. They got this slot so they could fit a cloak, place an uplink, or whip out the scanner to light up the area for the squad. Then they also got all the ewar as well and their passive scans made the active scanner pointless for a scout to carry. edit with the recent/soon cloak fixes will see less desirability of the cloak. I do agree with everything else you posted and really agree with plates reducing strafe speed is needed as a small step to unf*****g the battlefield balance. Strafing across the field needs serious work period. Scout speed tanking should be viable but this matrix bullet dodging and hopping above a grenade/MD rounds needs to be brought down some. When I last ran a Tank Hunting Scout with RE, AV Grenade, and Swarm Launcher the Scout only had 1 equipment slot. So no, Scout AV did not start with the introduction of the second Equipment Slot. I still think that low HP scouts should be able to speed tank effectively, as if they make a mistake they die instantly. That is why I like having a Strafe penalty attached to Armor Plate modules rather than the Scout suit. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4944	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:43:00 - [40] - Quote lee corwood wrote: And in general, I disagree with someone's statement on not increasing BW benefits to prototype tiers. I think that would actually encourage more people to run them and boost the economy. We claim its unfair to newer players, and as a long time advocate for newer players, I don't think you should penalized veteran specialization either. Protostomping already exists. EQ Spamming already exists. The proposed changes would actually limit what they do already today. There are many other areas where NPE could be improved. I have played DUST since Closed Beta and I have only used Proto suits in about 6 matches in all that time. Why? Because I canGÇÖt afford to. Thankfully I donGÇÖt normally play Logi, because if BW is tied to suit tier, then only rich players will be affective at playing logi. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4945	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:49:00 - [41] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Can the Sentinel be given the same band width as an Assault, even though the Sentinel does not have an equipment slot? In Pub matches were no one is dropping Uplinks, I am sometimes forced to switch to another fit to place some uplinks. Once that is done I spawn in again in my preferred Sentinel fit after dying or finding a Supply Depot. If the Sentinel has no bandwidth I will be stuck playing a suit that has bandwidth in these situations, because my team needs an uplink or they will be red-lined. This is what this change is designed to prevent. I had thought that Logi were the cause of the Uplink Spam. However, I have learned from reading this thread that those "Logi"* who cause Equipment Spam all switch to HMG Sentinels after they have deployed 2 or 3 Logi suits worth of equipment, which explains where all the extra HMG Sentinels came from. As a dedicated Sentinel since 1.3 I always looked at it as a sacrifice to have to spawn in a different fit to help the team when no one was placing Uplinks. Instead I learn that many people do this as an exploit. Oh Fox, you poor idealist. Always trying to find the best in people. That is a tall order in New Eden. Probably illegal in some sectors as well. (*Also, FTFY) I know... I shouldnGÇÖt base my assumptions about other people on my own motivations. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 5026	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:35:00 - [42] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Stop this... Stop saying that scouts main role in life is to be anti-vehicle... it takes taht role away from the heavies and the assaults and the logis who are supposed to be doing this stuff. Second no tank should be a solo-able thing!!! Why do you all insist that the lightest dropsuit class in the game should be able to destroy the most heavy vehicle inthe game, BY ITSELF? This makes no logical sense whatsoever. That's like trying to claim that a frigate should have enough guns and firepower to solo kill a dreadnaught in EVE... It's not gonna happen. Third, you don't just have freaking REs as a scout!!! If you truly wanna go tank hunting in a scout, then ONE RE + proto-AV nades + skilled up PLASMA CANNON or SWARM LAUNCHER still gets you a very decen chance to kill a tank!!! Whining about the RE thing is just plain dumb as you have so many other tools to use in the toolbox!!!! First: Scouts are for CQC AV. Assault/Commando only get close enough to toss an AV grenade. Logi don't usually put RE on thanks. They do AV with Proxies & Remote traps on the road. Sentinels are for long range AV. Second: In WWII many people soloed Tanks. They would dig a shallow trench narrower than the tank tread and lay in it holding a magnetic tank mine on their chest. When the tank rolled over them they would reach up and place the mine on the belly of the tank. Then the guy would have to prey the tank kept going as you don't want to be under a tank mine when it blows up. Third: It is not so much that no tank should be solo-able, as no tank should be solo-able with only one weapon. To solo a Tank a Scout has to use Remote Explosives, AV Grenades, and a Swarm Launcher or Plasma Cannon. Without the Remote Explosives there chances of getting a kill without help are very low. Keep in mind that to use Remote Explosives a Scout has to get close enough to the Tank to risk getting run over, or squished against a wall. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

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