DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] Equipment Bandwidth

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

Tesfa Alem wrote:

Breakin Stuff wrote:

It will reinforce each suit having advantages and disadvantages.

Players bypass logi weaknesses by changing suits while enjoying the benefit of equipment spam.

It makes dedicated logis utterly unnecessary and largely superfluous. This needs to change.

I completley disagree with you here. Hives and uplinks are only two of the 4 things a logi takes responsibility for. Though i use the amarr and cal logi for deployables, I carry other equipment on them because the suits need staying power beyond just drop and forget.

The "weakness" may be in direct 1 v 1 combat, but if that's your primary usage of a logi then you're doing it wrong. There has never been a match where a dedicated logi was made superflous by equipment spammed around a supply depot.

the point. It has flown over your head.

Warpoint spam from uplinks and hives IS a benefit from logi suits. crap them out, swap suits, trash stays, warpoints free of effort or concern flow in. No risk, since you swapped back, you're in no danger of losing an expensive logistics fit. and since you can drop asstons of hives, why not make two fits? one to spam hives, another to cover 75% of your team's uplink limit by yourself, then swap to a useful suit and go kill people?

THAT'S what I'm talking about when I say bypassing logi weaknesses.

It's not tactical flexibility. it's farming.

Your reflexes were too slow. All I said was equipment spam does not make dedicated logis superflous as you claimed.

The entire scenario you bring up relies solely on control of the supply depot. You have proto forge guns, exactly what stopping you from popping that supply depot? The only one out of reach from ranged weapons in all of dust is the gallente research facillity, where this entire spam, lagfest, fiasco started. PC corps figured they could break the game doing it and here we are today. And even in there, without a dedicated logi keeping those heavies standing its extremely difficult to hold.

You're a dedicated heavy, do you always ask for nanohive "trash", uplinks "spam" from logis that you don't bring in, pay for or invest SP into? I'm sure out of principle you walk from the redline rather than to spawn in on that garbage. I am equally sure you call in a lav and drive to nearest supply depot rather than touch a spammers nanohive.

Be sure not to after this drops, make sure you don't help those guys farm WP.

EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5154	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:30:00 - [1] - Quote Please set Sentinel Bandwidth to Zero. Never raise it. If you can't carry equipment then you don't need bandwidth. You are a murder gorilla, not a logistical hardpoint. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5164	Posted - 2014.11.20 08:54:00 - [2] - Quote Equipment spam is primarily refer to vomiting uplinks and hives all over then swapping suits to kill. If you play logi, you drop your gear then swap to your needle/rep/scanner/sparelinks fit your equipment will remain. if you go dump your wad and swap to a sentinel all your gear goes away. Thus making rooftop camping forge fatties harder. And eliminating pre staging four triage hives at a chokepoint and standing in it with an HMG. If you swap to assault you only lose most of your spam. But this change will increase the importance of having a dedicated logi in play rather than allowing sentinel players to use equipment spam as a substitution for battlefield tactics. Flying in a vehicle won't affect your equipment. You're still in a logi suit. But this is a direct nerf to tourists who want the benefits of logistics capability without actually playing the role. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5177	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:52:00 - [3] - Quote Most scouts fail to understand the joy of PLC in the back of the head. They are too afraid of missing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5183	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:04:00 - [4] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Mister Goo wrote: Equipment spam is the problem that BW is supposed to fix. I think BW is NOT the answer, there are much better ways to do this and the ideas in Cross's Logistics thread are the most solid I have seen. I know that there are no comments by a dev there, but I also know that you have been reading it. OMG, YES! I totally forgot about Cross's equipment revamp yesterday! THAT idea works without unduly penalizing tactical play! wtf, Rat? Why the push for BW, but not even a COMMENT about the other? Because Cross' logi revamps are compatible with BW changes and BW can be adjusted up or down to allow logis greater play and flexibility without indirectly buffing other suits since BW is a suit-specific stat. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5218	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:42:00 - [5] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Sentinels should have BW for at least 1 biscuit. That skill is called "ammo capacity" Donuts and pizza pockets don't carry themselves. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5218	Posted - 2014.11.21 10:47:00 - [6] - Quote lee corwood wrote: ONLY if that different suit has lower BW than the previous, at which point it would 'poof' the EQ that is OVER the new suits BW in the queue order it was laid. There is nothing to stop multiple players from coming together and laying down 1-2 nanohives each to try and initiate this, but that sounds like a lot of effort. Almost no one who drops hives around depots plays dedicated logi. That's a lazy tourist thing that bandwidth is intended to fix. There is nothing broken about forcing people to be smarter about the position and timing of deployables. The fact that you can currently drop eight hives/uplinks in a cluster then swap to an HMG fatty is pretty stupid. If you want to swap to AV and keep equipment? Last I checked, PLC/swarms fit on a logistics suit. Coincidence? I think not. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5236	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:58:00 - [7] - Quote Bluntly this needs to happen. Equipment substitutions and lemming rushes via uplink replace real tactics and a need for thought in DUST. People claim tthat this limits tactical options but the current meta is you spam or you lose. There is no tactical flexibility. There is room for only one tactic. For every advantage on the field you must make a sacrifice. The current equipment rules require players to sacrifice nothing. Bandwidth will force a meta change. In my opinion that alone is more than compensation for every drawback. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5238	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:56:00 - [8] - Quote No dude. Heavies will eat a nerf before they touch logis after this. I think that's the misunderstanding. You can't touch logis much anymore given their fragility and weakness in combat. If anything bandwidth allows CCP wiggle room to boost a lot of logi aspects and it might come to pass that logis join commando suits as the kings of regen if that change happens. There's a lot of assumption going on here. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5242	Posted - 2014.11.22 13:05:00 - [9] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: And AV as a primary forte is an admirable, noble and worthwhile cause, but recognize its a narrow discipline. Combat Logistics has way more moving parts. I run everything. Dont mistake my preference for vehicle destruction for exclusion. I started DUST playing logi. I still maintain logistics fits and periodically play logi to keep on top of the changes to the role and how things work. The only thing in DUST I don't run is dropships, solely due to my inability to not crash. I suck at them. But I do my homework. And I never make serious posts without familiarizing myself with the meta behind usage and a clear understanding of how they work. These changes will make dedicated logis who know what they are doing pure gold and more valuable than any other battlefield class while marginalizing people who use tge logi suit solely to make their game less risky or hard. Logistics players are currently not a critical resource. With changes to bandwidth, logis who can think, plan and react will be more valuable to a team than any number of sentinels or scouts. Logis should be the fulcrum which makes the team work, not the role that drops equipment then shoves a rep leash up a fat man's ass. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5254	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:25:00 - [10] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: How much trial and error is involved in ANY aspect of game design? That it's needed (though worthwhile metrics analytics reduces it significantly) isn't justification for immediate proposal dismissal. And, done properly which is completely within CCP devteam/codeing capability, what other issues does it create? And for whom, exactly? Logis? We're already getting the screwjob-hammer under BW as it is. I for one will be way more tolerant of a reasonable time period of "working out the kinks" on something like this since once those kinks are gone, the SPAM problem is handled AND legit gameplay overall isn't affected. Unlike BW, which will require the same trial-and-error-kink-fixing and once it's done, completely negates certain worthwhile gameplay. Which worthwhile gameplay, specifically, are you speaking of? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5254	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:35:00 - [11] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: How much trial and error is involved in ANY aspect of game design? That it's needed (though worthwhile metrics analytics reduces it significantly) isn't justification for immediate proposal dismissal. And, done properly which is completely within CCP devteam/codeing capability, what other issues does it create? And for whom, exactly? Logis? We're already getting the screwjob-hammer under BW as it is. I for one will be way more tolerant of a reasonable time period of "working out the kinks" on something like this since once those kinks are gone, the SPAM problem is handled AND legit gameplay overall isn't affected. Unlike BW, which will require the same trial-and-error-kink-fixing and once it's done, completely negates certain worthwhile gameplay. Which worthwhile gameplay, specifically, are you speaking of? Position creation and reinforcement concurrent with active squad supply and replenishment, both for Anti-Infantry and Anti-Vehicle contexts. Please clarify without the buzzwords. With examples. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5277	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:19:00 - [12] - Quote Personally I think bandwidth should be set based on dropsuit class, not based upon tier. Make them all capable of running the same number of deployables. Just make it so each stack of deployables they carry can fill that BW. So if you carry three types of hives, one STD, ADV and PRO make it so you can drop enough to eat the BW. So you can carry boat tons of crappy fire and forget trash that won't last long... or you can carry a few quality pieces. But if you throw all of your STD hives you're using all of the bandwidth till they pop. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5348	Posted - 2014.11.26 10:29:00 - [13] - Quote It means if you want to play mine tender do it in a logi suit. Logis as disposable hero suits that exist only to carry your deployables and then get put back in the closet are a problem If you want to play gear nerd learn to shoot people in the gear nerd suit. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5359	Posted - 2014.11.26 18:23:00 - [14] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: I just think this entire idea takes away freedom for a player so it can nicely fit into some predefined idea that some one else ahs on how the battles should unfold. Unfortunately easily exploitive behavior eradication and overall game balance needs to take precedence. On the less objective note, I think the whole "Drop equipment and swap suits" Bypasses one of the wewaknesses of a non-logi suit and diminishes the value of said logistics in the field. I firmly believe that that kind of play hurts the dedicated logistics role more than it helps. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5374	Posted - 2014.11.26 22:08:00 - [15] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: For your Information Breakin, Jet Canning was considered at one time to be a exploit. It was proposed for removal. Some of my logi suits cost upwards for 100k a spawn in and get killed off very easily. Also I pay the price of not having my heavy pushing objectives and slaying on the field. Just seams like a case where people are looking to hard to fix something for the sake of fixing something. Jet canning has no relevance here. Jet canning doesn't allow you to artificially inflate your combat capacity with no need to risk your mining ship EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5378	Posted - 2014.11.27 07:59:00 - [16] - Quote Heavies im LAVS are an annoyance that just bug people. Legit reasons but they're more likely to just aggravate you than affect the battle more than marginally. Unrestricted equipment spam has encouraged certain obnoxious behavior that doesn't assist the team (hives on a depot), forces atype of play (spawn as many uplinks on the objective as possible and then everyone spawn heavy or scout), and it diminishes dedicated logi players because once the spam is in place the only reason to get In a logi suit is to... Re-drop lost equipment. Then swap back to a slayer. The only other reason to deploy a logi is so you can polin a rep tool on the fatty. Bandwidth should have been a thing from release. People don't need to think about how they are using equipment right now and that is a major problem. Uplink spam substitutes for tactics. Hive spam substitutes for ammo conservation via good aim. The only ones whi I feel might have a legit gripe are people doing combat engineer things like mines but you can guard those in a logi suit. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5524	Posted - 2014.11.29 10:38:00 - [17] - Quote Switching to a suit with no equipment slots should not allow you to retain equipment. Sentinel bandwidth should be zero. Squad bandwidth makes no sense. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5531	Posted - 2014.11.29 15:17:00 - [18] - Quote Yes if you swap to a suit with bandwidth you lose the equipment that goes over your limit from the oldest (and likely most depleted) to newest in that order. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5532	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:16:00 - [19] - Quote that kind of solo play needs to be killed with fire. There's already poor incentive to join corps or squad up. being able to do that just lessens any need to do so atrociously EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5535	Posted - 2014.11.29 21:28:00 - [20] - Quote Meee One wrote: Nerf? What nerf? As a pure logistics player i actually consider this a major buff,and a big FU to omni soldiers. This will in no way negatively effect dedicated logistics players. It will however destroy those that spam equipment just to switch suits. This IMHO will actually add value to those dedicated logistics players,seeing as how everyone can see how much of a death trap the suit is. They wouldn't want to run the suit themselves (because they'll die easier) so they might actually start covering those brave enough to do so. Came to this post intending to troll. Found someone who gets it. Idiocy search parameters re-engaged. Moving along. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5548	Posted - 2014.11.30 16:52:00 - [21] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Meee One wrote: Stile451 wrote: With no dev feedback for over 10 days I'm guessing they're not interested in community responses or ideas that aren't in line with the original post. Well,if the responses consisted of more than BW work around suggestions (BW modules,BW skill,BW on sents),then maybe they would. Or "this sux because I don't understand it and change is scary" Or that some of us have legitimate concerns about the implementation of something this radical with little understanding of what other factors may be in play. And I find your fear not only hilarious, but profitable! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5548	Posted - 2014.11.30 19:17:00 - [22] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Play any role you want, but only one at a time. Not that hard to understand. Is this really THAT difficult to comprehend? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5549	Posted - 2014.11.30 20:19:00 - [23] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I don't mind the "one role at a time" concept at all...it's understandable. The part I do mind is that the penalty for switching roles is dramatically different for logi players vs. any other role. There's not a lot of ways to cut back on the ability to put out high levels of equipment without directly impacting logi suits. I would honestly like them to roll out the update to the support suits before introducing BW. Most logi players don't swap roles mid fight. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5556	Posted - 2014.12.01 11:03:00 - [24] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: So the proxies still remain at 2; they're hardly used anyway, and won't be used at all then. At 32 BW you could lay out 16 proxies at a time. How does this translate to them being discarded? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5556	Posted - 2014.12.01 12:32:00 - [25] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear community We have painstakingly gone through the 25 pages, collected feedback and adjusted the proposal, Cross and the rest of the CPM have also reviewed and given their feedback. Please find the updated numbers here and note that almost every unique comment is addressed on the right hand side: Final Proposal Please give your feedback, clear and concise. Thanks! Dear Rattati, as a long time Logi player (not so much since survivability is down the drain), I do not approve these changes. 1. You make it much harder to be effective as a logi without running proto. 2. You make it impossible for a logi to adapt to the situation by changing Roles, this is a major nerf to game fun for strategic gameplay. (Not all logis prefer to run leashing a heavy) 3. You still leave the possibility to spam equipment for the rest of the roles. 4. You do not adress more important stuff like the possibility to drop EQ around supply depots, which shouldn't be possible in the first place. 5. You do not adress the isk cost of Equipment, meaning why can anybody resupply EQ at a supply depot without ISK cost? Charging ISK for EQ/Suit change at Depot would solve more problems than this mediocre change to EQ... I will play logi even less, since it would just be a waste of game time and a liability to the team. Commandos and Assaults will do the logying from now! If you introduce this crap without any buff to the survivability to the logi, it won't be worth to run the class anymore. Cheers And yet there are threads dedicated to addressing the logistics survivability issues in a clear and constructive manner with proposals in play. You really think cross would have bothered wasting the effort if Rattati had said "LOLno logis are fine?" EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5567	Posted - 2014.12.01 15:54:00 - [26] - Quote It will reinforce each suit having advantages and disadvantages. Players bypass logi weaknesses by changing suits while enjoying the benefit of equipment spam. It makes dedicated logis utterly unnecessary and largely superfluous. This needs to change. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5568	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:20:00 - [27] - Quote Mad Syringe wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Mad Syringe wrote: Hey Rattati, just to be clear. I appreciate all your hard work so far on improving the dust experience. But seriously, this change will punish all players who have skilled into logi without regarding themselves as Pure logis (i.e. never using other frames). I could live with those changes, if EQ below BW would not be DESTROYED but DEACTIVATED, until a suit with enough BW is spawned again. This would allow Logis to change into another role without sacrificing all the strategic work he did before. This is very important for every player who places EQ strategically instead of just at the nearest supply depot! That all ASSault players and lol scouts ignore this fact is part of the "He's a logi, so he better bring our stuff and get out of the way!" attitude of the general populae in DUST. So the only ones dependent on Logis will be heavies... and even they will be fine if the stuff get's dropped by assaults instead... I think if you keep the changes, at least make all repping EQ (hives and repper) Logi only. So that not everybody and his mom can do the stuff the logis are supposed to do. Cheers So, do you also expect an Assault to keep the two light weapons when he switches from a Commando? Or maybe the HMG when he switches from a Sentinel? Hmm, why not the cloak too when switching from the Scout? No I don't, but I also do not expect that all kills you did with that HMG get taken from the board. Fact is, that if you play a logi as battlefield manager (deploying links in strategic positions which can take quite some time on certain maps) your effort gets taken away by one suit change into another class. If the Uplinks would be just DEACTIVATED instead of DESTROYED, I would have the possibility to go back to said logi suits and not have my work from the start of the game wasted. I agree that you should not change suits roles without cost, but so far the only ones who lose earlier efforts, are the logis. Fine, if I kill you, you should have to respawn in a different match. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5568	Posted - 2014.12.01 16:32:00 - [28] - Quote read your first line in the previous post and figure it out. If you're going to say something inane and ridiculous, expect an inane and ridiculous response. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5568	Posted - 2014.12.01 17:59:00 - [29] - Quote Greiv Rabbah wrote: This may be unfair criticism... Some people can only say bad things about dust no matter what changes are made. Whether they get what they want, its "CCP screwed up". Id try not to take it personally, many of us who have been here more than a year have gotten burned pretty bad amd have some very valid trust issues with ccp None of which have come from Rattati. He actually listens to us, I think it's only fair that the reverse should be true more than it often is. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5574	Posted - 2014.12.01 20:02:00 - [30] - Quote 950 HP slayer logi is still pretty crappy compared to a solid assault fit. You're going to move slower than a fatsuit. Plus a sentinel or scout will fart and kill you in less than 1.5 seconds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5576	Posted - 2014.12.01 20:22:00 - [31] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It will reinforce each suit having advantages and disadvantages. Players bypass logi weaknesses by changing suits while enjoying the benefit of equipment spam. It makes dedicated logis utterly unnecessary and largely superfluous. This needs to change. I completley disagree with you here. Hives and uplinks are only two of the 4 things a logi takes responsibility for. Though i use the amarr and cal logi for deployables, I carry other equipment on them because the suits need staying power beyond just drop and forget. The "weakness" may be in direct 1 v 1 combat, but if that's your primary usage of a logi then you're doing it wrong. There has never been a match where a dedicated logi was made superflous by equipment spammed around a supply depot. the point. It has flown over your head. Warpoint spam from uplinks and hives IS a benefit from logi suits. crap them out, swap suits, trash stays, warpoints free of effort or concern flow in. No risk, since you swapped back, you're in no danger of losing an expensive logistics fit. and since you can drop asstons of hives, why not make two fits? one to spam hives, another to cover 75% of your team's uplink limit by yourself, then swap to a useful suit and go kill people? THAT'S what I'm talking about when I say bypassing logi weaknesses. It's not tactical flexibility. it's farming. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5581	Posted - 2014.12.02 05:21:00 - [32] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: It will reinforce each suit having advantages and disadvantages. Players bypass logi weaknesses by changing suits while enjoying the benefit of equipment spam. It makes dedicated logis utterly unnecessary and largely superfluous. This needs to change. I completley disagree with you here. Hives and uplinks are only two of the 4 things a logi takes responsibility for. Though i use the amarr and cal logi for deployables, I carry other equipment on them because the suits need staying power beyond just drop and forget. The "weakness" may be in direct 1 v 1 combat, but if that's your primary usage of a logi then you're doing it wrong. There has never been a match where a dedicated logi was made superflous by equipment spammed around a supply depot. the point. It has flown over your head. Warpoint spam from uplinks and hives IS a benefit from logi suits. crap them out, swap suits, trash stays, warpoints free of effort or concern flow in. No risk, since you swapped back, you're in no danger of losing an expensive logistics fit. and since you can drop asstons of hives, why not make two fits? one to spam hives, another to cover 75% of your team's uplink limit by yourself, then swap to a useful suit and go kill people? THAT'S what I'm talking about when I say bypassing logi weaknesses. It's not tactical flexibility. it's farming. Your reflexes were too slow. All I said was equipment spam does not make dedicated logis superflous as you claimed. The entire scenario you bring up relies solely on control of the supply depot. You have proto forge guns, exactly what stopping you from popping that supply depot? The only one out of reach from ranged weapons in all of dust is the gallente research facillity, where this entire spam, lagfest, fiasco started. PC corps figured they could break the game doing it and here we are today. And even in there, without a dedicated logi keeping those heavies standing its extremely difficult to hold. You're a dedicated heavy, do you always ask for nanohive "trash", uplinks "spam" from logis that you don't bring in, pay for or invest SP into? I'm sure out of principle you walk from the redline rather than to spawn in on that garbage. I am equally sure you call in a lav and drive to nearest supply depot rather than touch a spammers nanohive. Be sure not to after this drops, make sure you don't help those guys farm WP. You make an incredible number of assumptions about how I play. Supply depots on the enemy team are beneath my notice except as a target. Lack of hives and uplinks has never decided whether I achieve an objective. That is determined by the fact that I'm relentless, not risk averse, and while I am dedicated heavy, I am not above swapping into another role as needed. Including swapping to logistics to help resupply. My favorite role is blowing up your tank. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.