because that would be too hard for them. THey like to nerf ****, then de-nerf it 4 months later.

The ability for scouts to passively scan wide areas for their squad means that they're essentially a walking, permanent wall hack for 5 other people. After the cloak change, the Gal scout will be able to see everything above 23.79db within 75m while being undetected himself (if he builds for it). The Cal scout will see everything above 14.91 for the same radius, which creates a barrier that most scouts can't enter unless they get torn to shreds by the 5 other people.

If you want Cal scouts to remain as the hunters of other scouts, then they should have to hunt down enemies themselves. So aside from removing the shared passive vision, I'd suggest the following changes (based loosely on Jebus' suggestions).

Cal scout: short range precision scout hunter
25% precision
25% reduction to nova knife charge time (nova knives are a cal weapon)

Gal scout: ghost
25% dampening
25% cloak regen

Min scout: hack and run
25% hacking speed (Min scouts get a higher base stat for this anyway, no need to buff it more)
10% bonus to biotics (with their high base melee damage and speed, this opens up a lot of options)
edit: Someone pointed out the numbers on +25% on biotics, so changed it to +10%

Ama scout: squad scan support, scans most suits except scouts
25% bonus to ferroscale and reactive plates (I've heard changing movement penalties is hard to make work, so this makes more sense)
25% scan range (gives Amarr their own E-war role and makes sense considering their weapon choices hit out to similar ranges)

Also, I'd like to note that while balancing around PC makes some sense considering it's the only full team vs full team mode right now, it has the issues of a limited map pool and limited playerbase. If they're serious about balance changes, I'd rather see full team FW enabled and have them take those figures into consideration too. FW is open to far more people and uses maps outside just the limited large socket selection.

Do you really want the Min scout's role to revolve entirely around the use of another race's weapon? The other changes I proposed would give them more breathing room when up against other scouts and biotics gives them options to build on their strengths (speed and melee damage).


The question is, do pure recon scouts benefit the strategy of how the game gets played? The Cal scout's ability to nullify other scouts by simply existing is causing balance issues.

Biotic bonuses make the knife bonus somewhat irrelevant as Min scouts get increased based melee damage anyway. Having bonuses to 2 different melee styles on a single suit is a bit pointless, especially when one of those bonuses is to another race's weapon. There's a debate to be had about which role the Min scout could benefit from more, I'm just going with the racial style ones.

Even with the cloak change, a single complex damp will still get you under gal/amarr scouts and 1c+1e will get you under everything else except gal logi focused scanners and cal scouts. You sacrifice range, but you're still spotting people for your squad in that situation. I'll rephrase my question that I asked: Does this make for interesting and engaging gameplay? Does squad view add more strategy to the game than it removes? Does it positively or negatively impact the game's balance?

The Gallente is the true infiltrator which makes it the best at the "scout" role that has existed in Dust for a long time. The Gallente are the best at close quarters, at flanking, at ninja hacking, at dropping uplinks, at solo point defense, etc etc. They're the best for nearly everything because they are ghosts. They only have to give up 2 slots (a damp and a cloak) as opposed to 3 slots (2 damps and cloak) to become ghosts.

Caldari is at a close second because it forces Gallente and other scouts to lose a low slot for a damp to continue scouting. This is a fact that CCP should consider. A precision tanked Caldari is the norm in a competitive environment because THAT is the best counter to someone attempting to infiltrate

Arguably the BEST feature of a scout that should never be taken away from ANY of them is their ability to avoid detection. That's why you run a scout. To get behind enemy lines and hit them from where they least expect it.

If a scout fails to avoid detection they are a worthless asset on the battlefield because they cannot fulfill their role as a stealth unit. A scout who is constantly getting scanned via passive or active is better off in an entirely different suit or simply ehp tanking and playing the role of an assault because that's all they'll be good for.

Removing the ability for every scout to easily avoid detection is like removing a sentinel's ability to easily tank ehp.

Honestly it seems to me like they're not even sure how their game is currently played and why. I don't mean that to be rude. It just seems like they're out of touch with their own mechanics and player base.

Take away Gallente bonus to dampening. Make it a Scout skill instead. Take away Caldari bonus to Range to equal the two suits out.

MM Nova Knife and Hacking
AM Stamina and stealth uplink deployment
CA Precision Bonus
GA Range Bonus

Scout -15% CPU/PG per level to cloak. -5% to profile

Ok let me then put this out there,

for Hotfix Alpha, not the end of time

1) GA scout bonus from dampening to duration
2) Brick tanking should become more difficult with plate penalties and PG changes
3) Duration is shortened and has class progression
4) Dampening of cloaks is reduced and has class progression
5) Caldari passive scan range reduced

Later fixes intend to normalize PG/CPU so noone can fit anything he wants.

The highest possible dampening fit beats the highest possible scan fit

Completely disagree and by doing this you make Scouts OP.

This negates counterplay and allows them to accomplish 2 much with 2 little.

If your going to reduce the cal scout passive range bonus can you remove it completely from the gal scout. Why does a scout dedicated to dampening even have a scanning bonus?

Rofl...how do you figure? Please tell me

also LS?

Seriously, you're swinging the nerf hammer pretty hard at Gal Scouts. What happened to your policy of not nerfing more than one thing at a time and making minor tweaks to see how it goes? You're slamming Gal Scouts with:

Scan range decrease from 5% - 1% per level. (Why even give it at all?)
Dampening per level from 5% to 3%
And regen from 3hp to 1hp
on top of that cloak dampening changes.

Pick 3 of the 4 - but adjust as you go. You're adjusting too much at once.

Confirming that this is super easy if your mouse have a dpi switch. It would be better if you switched the scanners to have a duration of 1 sec and long scan time instead. And make it have the same mechanics as a cloak - have to hold it out to benefit from it.

You could also slow down aiming while you scan with an active scanner.

I for one am not worried about my cal scout with dampening. On my advanced suit I use an adv dampener which is 20% from 35 which approximately brings me down to 25Db, in pub matches how many times do you see people running proto scanners? Even with an organised squad if they were to use one it is likely that only one person will use it so on skirmish that's not much of a problem. One person with a proto scanner can't cover the whole map. On domination however this still shouldn't be a problem because scouts are meant to flank not hit head on. This becomes apparent when running caldari because shields are made for hit and run tactics which is why I also run a basic cloak not only to back this up, but to prepare for the changes in hotfix alpha and to get new strategies and tactics ready. Also the standard cloak now and the advanced cloak after alpha, the after alpha cloak has an advantage due to the fact it has a 5 second less recharge time. Just my thoughts. Some things will need to be in place to help Minmatar and Amarr scouts in PC though to make them viable.

Fix the assault suits before nerfing everything else into the ground.