That's ******* sad. I knew it was bad, but this is just sad..........

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

[quote=D legendary hero][list]
'Has enough ammo to get 13 kills with a supply depot'. How do you come up with this statistic, exactly? HP totals vary wildly between suits.

'Has marginally less DPS than an HMG without any dispersion'.
It certainly has less dispersion, yes. But 'marginally' less dps? That's not accurate. A standard AR does 425 dps. A standard HMG does 600 dps. While the dispersion is certainly different, that isn't 'marginally' less, that's almost 50% less!

'No recoil'. Technically incorrect. It does have recoil - but it's not very significant. This is one of the major changes that I would prefer for the AR - it needs significant recoil.

'Benefits the most from auto-aim'. No, it doesn't. It benefits quite a lot, but have you used the laser rifle recently? I can track a sprinting target with it without touching the stick.

'Has the best CPU/PG for suits, allowing maximum tanking'. Eh. A number of weapons use very similar resources - the mass driver for instance. You can hardly say it's the 'best'.

'Does 110% damage to shields and 95% to armour giving the best effective damage dealt'. It's 110/90. Additionally, you can't really definitively say that one damage profile is better than another.

'Is undisputed out to 75m'.
No. Absolutely not. I have shotgunned ARs before, 'disputing' them well before 75m. I also beat AR users with a scrambler rifle well before that range.

'Renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy up to 88m'.
It certainly doesn't render my scrambler rifle obsolete. Do you mean to say lasers, which have their major damage dropoff at that point?

'Can take maximum advantage of headshots due to high dps and high accuracy'.
Scrambler rifle does it better.

'don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)'
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that the AR's spray and pray style can do well irrespective of how well the hit detection is working?

he actual difference is 29%. But due to hit detection issues with the HMG, its inferior damage to sheilding, higher damage fall of, and obscenely high dispersion (up to 35% disperision) the dps difference between ARs and HMGs become alot closer and on average, there is very little difference in damage output.

difference is AR does its dps out further and with greater accuracy.

by quickly pressing the trigger you can reduce the recoil counter. but this isn't really nessesary as recoil only sets in once you fire 48 bullets.
the HMG, scrambler rifle, MD, flaylock and forguns do not benefit from autoaim. in faact very few weapons benefit from auto aim. but ARs due to their nature and dps equal an i win button with autoaim.

the AR has one of the most balanced CPU/PG fittings for the dps, and advantages it holds. it can practically fit on any suit build.

tests have been done that confirm it does 95% to armor. from 5m - 75m the AR is basically unmatched. vs shotguns in CQB its a 50/50 chance that the AR loses, if the shotgunner misses he is insta-dead because the AR hipfire is better than smg hipfire (cross hairs not fire rate). so, a scout with a shotgun, if he misses an AR hip firing a milita AR can drop him in .8 seconds at the least.
scrambers did receive a mild buff from 1.4. but 467 to the face... its hard to beat that.
lazers are perfectly fine.

before you read anything else please note. AIM ASSIST IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

the real problem lies in the fact that HIT DETECTION ( a good thing, a very good thing) now makes it so that the full dps of the AR registers all the time. AR dps is too high. (hit dection is a good thing, the improved hit detection proves how OP ARs are).


the AR without the aid of teamates or grenades, can pretty much win a 1v1 gun fit verses any suit in the game in 3 seconds or less (often less) in and beyond its effective range. .
plus:

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

So, a militia ARs time to kill a proto heavy with max ehp, in its effective range is:
1591hp/467hp damage per second = 3.4 seconds.

your average heavy has around 1100 ehp. so, a militia ARs TTK would be:
1100/467 = 2.4 seconds

a milita heavy frame has 800 ehp. TTk from a miita AR would be:
800/467 = 1.7 seconds.


if you use 2 complex damage mods with a duvolle AR, and have proficiency your dps is 681 (my f*cking god its an HMG!). that is an equivilent of 49.5 damage pershot (as a side note the breach AR does 51 per shot. so your duvolle basically has the damage pershot of a breach with the rpm of a militia ar)
you can drop a heavy with 1591 ehp in 2.3 seconds .

your average heavy with 1100 ehp dies in 1.6 seconds .

H*ll a militia AR even out dps's the AFG everyone is complaining about. AFG does 1381 damage every 4 seconds of charge up time. in 4 seconds time a milita AR has done 1868.
[list]

467@1second, 934 @ 2 seconds, 1401 @ 3 seconds, 1868 @ 4 seconds = militia AR (militia Ar ends its clip in 3.8)

0@1 second, 0 @ 2 seconds, 0 @ 3 seconds, 1381 @ 4 seconds = Assault forge gun DU/A

further references:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98633
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1214687#post1214687
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1208329#post1208329
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1264972#post1264972
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104295&find=unread
if you think this is a wall of text or didn't understand this just happened to you .

If TL;DR and your an AR noob that want s to comment everyone will do this

AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less.

My Mass Driver still kills people just as quickly as an AR. I have not had any more deaths this build than any of the others, still not seeing a problem.

And no aim assist is not the problem, it really does nothing but make a red dot and give me some numbers i never se anyway unless im sniping.

I dont get how so many people cant understand what the aim assist does. It really does something. And the numbers have been there the entire time i've played (like 2 months, not since closed beta). they show your weapon's efficiency against that target. No idea what you thought they meant.

Oh and with regard to this topic i think ARs are fine, some other weapons just need some buffing. All nerfs to the mass driver.

Or how about we just get rid of the aim assist and then the AR will, once again, be nicely on par with other weapons.

Please note that CCP said that they are going to be rejiggering the range of the scrambler rifles in 1.5 which will make them have an advantage over the AR/TAR.

As someone who mains the scrambler rifle I can assure you that it certainly benefits from aim assist. As a part-time user of the HMG I can also assure you that it applies to that as well.
The MD doesn't particularly benefit from aim assist, no. It has the advantage of a 10m blast diameter though, so you hardly need it. I can't speak for the flaylock as I haven't used that lately. Forge guns are not an anti-infantry focused weapon. They certainly have the capability, but when doing that, much like the sniper rifle, you have to rely on aiming skills for high precision, high damage shots.[quote]
b]d legendary hero:[/b]
i would agree with you on the scambler but its on a list of weapons that CCP confirmed aren't affected by aim assit. that and i also use scamblers 1.4 has made them more useful.. but ARs are still OP compared these and other weapons.


The AR may have a relatively balanced fitting profile, but it isn't nearly the only weapon and a number have superior fitting options.
b]d legendary hero:[/b]
based on its power being able to slap one of the best guns on any suit is itself OP. imagine if scouts could use HMGs?
there is a reason for CPU/PG layouts. if the AR is to retain its current power and stats it needs way more CPU/PG to make it difficult to fit to suits with damage mods, or sheild and armor tanking.

[quote]
As someone who literally wrote the book on shields and armour and someone who has done extensive testing of damage profiles, I am 100% certain this is not the case.

good points but distorting wall

Confining that as an 1100 Hp heavy, I've died in under 2 seconds to AR users. Many a time they were behind me, I didn't even have time to spin around, even with the new turn rate buffs.

before you read anything else please note. AIM ASSIST IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

the real problem lies in the fact that HIT DETECTION ( a good thing, a very good thing) now makes it so that the full dps of the AR registers all the time. AR dps is too high. (hit dection is a good thing, the improved hit detection proves how OP ARs are).


the AR without the aid of teamates or grenades, can pretty much win a 1v1 gun fit verses any suit in the game in 3 seconds or less (often less) in and beyond its effective range. .
plus:

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

So, a militia ARs time to kill a proto heavy with max ehp, in its effective range is:
1591hp/467hp damage per second = 3.4 seconds.

your average heavy has around 1100 ehp. so, a militia ARs TTK would be:
1100/467 = 2.4 seconds

a milita heavy frame has 800 ehp. TTk from a miita AR would be:
800/467 = 1.7 seconds.


if you use 2 complex damage mods with a duvolle AR, and have proficiency your dps is 681 (my f*cking god its an HMG!). that is an equivilent of 49.5 damage pershot (as a side note the breach AR does 51 per shot. so your duvolle basically has the damage pershot of a breach with the rpm of a militia ar)
you can drop a heavy with 1591 ehp in 2.3 seconds .

your average heavy with 1100 ehp dies in 1.6 seconds .

H*ll a militia AR even out dps's the AFG everyone is complaining about. AFG does 1381 damage every 4 seconds of charge up time. in 4 seconds time a milita AR has done 1868.
[list]

467@1second, 934 @ 2 seconds, 1401 @ 3 seconds, 1868 @ 4 seconds = militia AR (militia Ar ends its clip in 3.8)

0@1 second, 0 @ 2 seconds, 0 @ 3 seconds, 1381 @ 4 seconds = Assault forge gun DU/A

further references:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98633
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1214687#post1214687
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1208329#post1208329
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1264972#post1264972
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104295&find=unread
if you think this is a wall of text or didn't understand this just happened to you .

If TL;DR and your an AR noob that want s to comment everyone will do this

AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less.

I bet there was more than one.

Your links and math title attracted me ... you wouldn't happen to have a spreadsheet as well?

Signed. +1 the AR has been out of balance since mordu's trials.This thread will do nothing because this community is caustic and only concerned about their self interest not making a better game. Dust fiend trumpeted this same message last year to deaf ears.

This game had a perfect TTK rate prior to 1.4. This update has totally ruined the flow of the game and skills and gear mean virtually nothing now. A noob with less than 1 mil SP and a militia AR is a more viable killer than a 20 mil SP player with a proto suit and proto MD. This is insane.

Character development is dead.

ar is fine just remove the damage mods for them...the std ar the mlt ar and the gek is fine...

u can nerf the proto tier to hell for all i care just leave adv and the less alone...

plus if the ar is the most powerful gun in the game then explain to me why we still see all of the other guns getting kills all of the guns have had an equal deadliness when used correctly..

in truth the ar is only truly deadly if proficiency skill is maxed...

but it doesnt require a massive nerf.. lets think of that laser rifle before uprising it was perfect the way it was but every1 was hating getting killed by it so much it was nerfed into useless ness and now we have improved hit detection and aimassist along with a new sight for the laser and now its almost barely able to get kills now...

and ppl still suck at aiming when it comes to the ar...


the ar is the most versatile weapon on the battle field which is why its one of the most common weapons on the battlefield..

and seeing how its every players starting weapon would mean it would get alot more bitching if this weapon did get nerfed...

the tac ar has been nerfed..

not in damage but in smaller clipsize and lower rof...

the ar seems some what fine as its about as deadly as every other gun in the game...

the only thing to blame here is the improved hit detection and damage mods...

and the extremely high total hp that med suits can reach..

its the starter weapon for all the new players to the game what do u expect?


it isnt a master of all trades..


pure math isnt going to mean a certain gun is op...

there r med suits that can get more armor and shielding than a heavy suit..

the hmg can actually kill lavs..

this is one thing the ar cant do but isnt that important..

the ar does not shoot exploding rounds...

it does the same damage shields and armor..

ppl will still miss alot of the time...

the amount of kills players get with certain weapons in the kill feed isnt going to prove its op..


the laser rifle as i mentioned earlier would have been a great counter to majority of ar users..

before uprising...

but it was nerfed to suit the proto bears..

i see players pubstomp with ars shot guns.. forge guns..

hmgs..

smgs..

mass drivers..

sniper rifles...

tanks..

zerg tactics...


just about everything...

u also need to take player skill into account as well...

the ar would be the hardest of all weapons to nerf..

the tac ar was op before it was nerfed..

it still can obliterate...

the ar cant do everything its just versatile..

and very common...

its also the only weapon that most new players r familiar with.

its not really the gun that should get the nerfs..

its the things added to the gun that should be getting the nerfs..

You're wrong.
Insta-kill = Any kill that is instant, i.e. happens in one shot.

before you read anything else please note. AIM ASSIST IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

the real problem lies in the fact that HIT DETECTION ( a good thing, a very good thing) now makes it so that the full dps of the AR registers all the time. AR dps is too high. (hit dection is a good thing, the improved hit detection proves how OP ARs are).


the AR without the aid of teamates or grenades, can pretty much win a 1v1 gun fit verses any suit in the game in 3 seconds or less (often less) in and beyond its effective range. .
plus:

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

So, a militia ARs time to kill a proto heavy with max ehp, in its effective range is:
1591hp/467hp damage per second = 3.4 seconds.

your average heavy has around 1100 ehp. so, a militia ARs TTK would be:
1100/467 = 2.4 seconds

a milita heavy frame has 800 ehp. TTk from a miita AR would be:
800/467 = 1.7 seconds.


if you use 2 complex damage mods with a duvolle AR, and have proficiency your dps is 681 (my f*cking god its an HMG!). that is an equivilent of 49.5 damage pershot (as a side note the breach AR does 51 per shot. so your duvolle basically has the damage pershot of a breach with the rpm of a militia ar)
you can drop a heavy with 1591 ehp in 2.3 seconds .

your average heavy with 1100 ehp dies in 1.6 seconds .

H*ll a militia AR even out dps's the AFG everyone is complaining about. AFG does 1381 damage every 4 seconds of charge up time. in 4 seconds time a milita AR has done 1868.
[list]

467@1second, 934 @ 2 seconds, 1401 @ 3 seconds, 1868 @ 4 seconds = militia AR (militia Ar ends its clip in 3.8)

0@1 second, 0 @ 2 seconds, 0 @ 3 seconds, 1381 @ 4 seconds = Assault forge gun DU/A

further references:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98633
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1214687#post1214687
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1208329#post1208329
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1264972#post1264972
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104295&find=unread
if you think this is a wall of text or didn't understand this just happened to you .

If TL;DR and your an AR noob that want s to comment everyone will do this

AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less.

shoulnt that heavy be stacking more armor than shield in his build if ARs are the problem? all i read from this is "dont shield tank a heavy"

I disagree with your maths. Your solution. And your examples.

However. And please ladies and gentlemen hide your children... i do "kind of" agree with 'D legendary hero's' first 3 lines.

So if i may try my hand at re wording things...

Hit detection has changed how many weapons apply their damage. AR's, SMG's, Scrambler rifles, and HMG's are the prime examples (but not restricted too). However it has changed their effectiveness in different ways.

AR's due to their inherent accuracy are now applying a greater amount of their dmg, at all ranges, and more consistently.

SMG's are now applying a greater amount of dmg, at their optimal, where their dispersion is not so much of an issue. Due also to their high rate of fire, this dmg is applied quickly, which makes them extremely effective at CQ.

SR's are registering hits more often. Dmg output is up. Imperial scramble rifles with complex dmg mods are very very scary.

The HMG is now hitting. At Optimal ranges, the close to full dps can be applied like a huge multi barrelled machine gun should... which is a lot.
However the dispersion is now a major factor in applied dps. At marginally longer ranges the number of bullets hitting drops exponentially. Hitting is "easier", but the amount hitting is less. Especially if the target is not cantered.
In CQ, if you can keep the bead on target, you hit for 100% (please insert moving matrix style jumpy target), if not you do 0.

This is what i have found. No numbers needed, no comparison. I even tried to be un-bias.

Agreed, although I hardly feel this amounts to ARs being over powered. The argument that D is putting forth is that "only an AR" is benefitting from the changes, which it is clearly not.

The reason why AR users vehemently oppose changes such as lowering overall dps of the AR to make it weaker is that previously it has been at a severe disadvantage at many ranges verses many different weapons depending on the range. Now it is useful when used correctly at the appropriate mid range and only slightly less useful at CQ. This has led to an upswing in it's usage along with the plentiful BPOs available for purchase meaning that additional deaths don't affect a merc's in game isk as much (Duvolles still cost 77k isk).

All i se is LOOSERS WHO want all weapons nerfed exept the ones they use...

Get some SP, train your skills and STOP crying.

AR out DPSing Lasers in 40+ meters. That's ridiculous, and I doubt kick will do anything, because the Aim Assist bot will promptly put your cursor right back on your target. There needs to be a DPS nerf, especially now with hit detection and AA making it all too easy to get that full-blown DPS of the AR.

All i se is LOOSERS WHO want all weapons nerfed exept the ones they use...

The AR is fine as it is, the reason you Loose to it is that almost all the veterans in the game is using AR, as it was the only assault weapon in the game when it was released, and most of them are fully trained in it, also they run suits, gear, shields and armor thats all proto, and fully trained. they are fully trained in electronics and engenering so they can fit more and bigger items.
They make a lot of dmg and they are hard to kill...

A few of these vets waited a week to get a weapon after relese and then got the SCR, and bellive me when i say this,
THEY ARE JUST AS TUFF.

And if 2 Caldari shield based vets with the same amount of SP goes at it, 1 using AR, and 2 using SCR
belive me the dude whit the AR will die in 2 sec. and the SCR dude will run of laughing.

I did this more then once, and it happend to me more then once, like i said before im fully trained in both weapons.



Get some SP, train your skills and STOP crying.

wasnt laser nerfed?

buff the std level back to before uprising...

and then ull see alot less ars...

every gun on here got some sort of buff in a certain way...

i havnt noticed much gameplay wise that would mean ars are op everything is pretty much the same...and of course using a heavy suit with an ar means u may survive longer than the players that use a med suit or scout suit with the ar....

over all hmg can kill a player much much faster than an ar on here...

of course the player would have to stand still for it but still the hmg kills really fast when majority of the bullets will hit..

and smg can kill really fast as well..

std and mlt ar may actually possibly be one of the weakest guns.

but its so great because its one of the first weapons available to u..

easily affordable...

most familiar.

and is almost on even ground every where in the map...

the fact is it has its counters and so does every other weapon have counters...

sure zig zag up to a sniper can work but theres also that chance the snipers going to kill u first...

basically stop focusing on one stupid gun class like an idiot.

using math isnt going to mean anything in game..

its not one shotting everything..

like the m1 and core locus nades currently..

any weapon and gun can kill any weapon and gun user...

lets just leave it at this..

mass drivers can kill everything forge guns can kil everything snipers can kill anything ar can kill any thing scramblers can kill anything laser can kill anything everything can kill anything...

all guns were improved how can u till if one gun is the best?

we have pubstomper who want the most op gun available...

the is no most op gun available.

the assault scrambler cant actually over heat..

and it could actually do more damage than an ar...

majority of the weapons r fine...

the ar is a close to mid range weapon that is where it is most effective in combat..

its not that effective at long range but there are variants designed to perform those funtions the tac ar wont destroy in close range its more in the mid to long range class of gun...

the regular scrambler rifle is in this class as well..

the assault scrambler rifle is pretty much the laser version of an assault rifle...

I disagree with your maths. Your solution. And your examples.

However. And please ladies and gentlemen hide your children... i do "kind of" agree with 'D legendary hero's' first 3 lines.

So if i may try my hand at re wording things...

Hit detection has changed how many weapons apply their damage. AR's, SMG's, Scrambler rifles, and HMG's are the prime examples (but not restricted too). However it has changed their effectiveness in different ways.

AR's due to their inherent accuracy are now applying a greater amount of their dmg, at all ranges, and more consistently.

SMG's are now applying a greater amount of dmg, at their optimal, where their dispersion is not so much of an issue. Due also to their high rate of fire, this dmg is applied quickly, which makes them extremely effective at CQ.

SR's are registering hits more often. Dmg output is up. Imperial scramble rifles with complex dmg mods are very very scary.

The HMG is now hitting. At Optimal ranges, the close to full dps can be applied like a huge multi barrelled machine gun should... which is a lot.
However the dispersion is now a major factor in applied dps. At marginally longer ranges the number of bullets hitting drops exponentially. Hitting is "easier", but the amount hitting is less. Especially if the target is not cantered.
In CQ, if you can keep the bead on target, you hit for 100% (please insert moving matrix style jumpy target), if not you do 0.

This is what i have found. No numbers needed, no comparison. I even tried to be un-bias.

Hmm ok.
ASCR can over heat, try to fire 2 clips in a row.
AR does have kick and dispersion try to fire all 60 rounds in to a spot you aim at and you will find that it starts to kick like mule and move up and to the side.
NO no one can take 4-5 shots from a charge sniper rifle.

STOP talking about weapons you know nothing about at max lvl...

I don't have a gigantic problem with the theoretical DPS, it is the grouping of the shots.

If you have used the assualt scrambler since the patch you will see it's accuracy seriously effects its DPS, so delete the sharpshooter skill for ARs and give them some SERIOUS kick and we should be good.

I havent said anything is OP... i think it is too early to start shouting from the hill tops. I AM sure things are unballanced atm... im just trying to figure out the how and why.

I "feel" like heavies and scouts just arent as surviable as they should be. And that wiil directly effect how weapons work too...
Its a bit too soon too be crying wolf yet

All i se is LOOSERS WHO want all weapons nerfed exept the ones they use...

The AR is fine as it is, the reason you Loose to it is that almost all the veterans in the game is using AR, as it was the only assault weapon in the game when it was released, and most of them are fully trained in it, also they run suits, gear, shields and armor thats all proto, and fully trained. they are fully trained in electronics and engenering so they can fit more and bigger items.

They make a lot of dmg and they are hard to kill...

if 2 Caldari shield based vets with the same amount of SP goes at it, 1 using AR, and 2 using SCR
belive me the dude whit the AR will die in 2 sec. and the SCR dude will run of laughing.

Get some SP, train your skills and STOP crying.

When has the AR ever been nerfed?
not, TAC i mean full auto. the slight adjustments in damage always kept the AR on top. you sinking your own ship.

i mean bro do i really need to list all the guns AR noobs have gotten nerfed?....lol

Ascr doesnt have the range or punch of a gallente AR, and due to the higher CPU/PG requirements of scrmblers i doubt they would have the same ehp ever.

scramblers have more recoil, and less range than ARs.

Heavy's SUX now i give you that, but that has nothing to do whit the AR or any other weapon for that matter, im taking down heavy's with my SMG now, i out range and out dmg. them even with my SMG and all other weapons for that matter, it still has nothing to do with the AR.

Heavy's need more range, more HP, more dps. more more more... THEY SUX... (sorry but they do)

I DONT play heavy suits or use heavy weapons so this is NOT why i say this... I only kill them ;)

Militia AR's are OP, but so are the rest of the millitia weapons, they are NO skill weapons and should do almost NO dmg, have ****** range and so on, millitia should NEVER be able to stand up agenst proto gear no matter what..

Militia gear and weapons should be so bad that once a player leaves the Academy, they will NEVER use it ever again...

Heavy's SUX now i give you that, but that has nothing to do whit the AR or any other weapon for that matter, im taking down heavy's with my SMG now, i out range and out dmg. them even with my SMG and all other weapons for that matter, it still has nothing to do with the AR.

Heavy's need more range, more HP, more dps. more more more... THEY SUX... (sorry but they do)

I DONT play heavy suits or use heavy weapons so this is NOT why i say this... I only kill them ;)

Mllitia AR's are OP, but so are the rest of the millitia weapons, they are NO skill weapons and should do almost NO dmg, have ****** range and so on, millitia should NEVER be able to stand up agenst proto gear no matter what..

Millitia gear and weapons should be so bad that once a player leaves the Academy, they will NEVER use it ever again...

Oh i almost forgot ;) to the sniper dude, im a sniper to, im lvl 5 pro lvl 3. Try to use the charge sniper rifle with 1 or 2 complex dmg mod's and i promice you that most players go down in 1 shot ang NO one will suvive 3 shots, you will even be able to take most heavy's in 1 shot if you shoot them in the head...

And then just wait untill you try the thales..... OMG it's a killer, but also rare ;(

The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead.

Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game.

The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage.

Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range.

as long as it gets some kind of nerf. it has too much already with little drawbacks to it

The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead.

Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game.

The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage.

Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. On the case of the Gallente AR it would have the highest DPS but the lowest damage per shot, the least amount of hip fire dispersion but the highest amount of recoil, and the lowest range.

<-- AR user only saying because apparently we aren't coherent enough to provide good feedback on the AR.

Confining that as an 1100 Hp heavy, I've died in under 2 seconds to AR users. Many a time they were behind me, I didn't even have time to spin around, even with the new turn rate buffs.

I think the real problem is that we are still missing weapons and suits in the game...

All but Amar are missing Commando and Heavy suits and a few scout suits are missing to, there are no Minmatar or Caldary AR's
and Gallante has no side arm, Minmatar has a HMG and Caldary has the forgegun, the rest of the heavy weapons are still missing, cant remeber it all right now but a lot of things are still missing in Dust 514...


Normally in games all races/sides have there own version of the enemys stuff, in Dust we dont have that so far...

I think its kind of funny that the Minmatar have a HMG that can only be used on a Amar heavy suit LOL...

Read my finished edit, it would technically get a nerf but some buffs at the same time.

Hmm ok.
ASCR can over heat, try to fire 2 clips in a row.
AR does have kick and dispersion try to fire all 60 rounds in to a spot you aim at and you will find that it starts to kick like mule and move up and to the side.
NO no one can take 4-5 shots from a charge sniper rifle.

STOP talking about weapons you know nothing about at max lvl...

All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have.

All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have.

the same people that always used the AR either don't use other guns and are oblivious to how other guns work and their strong and weak points, or know how good the AR is compared to other weapons and use it to stay competitive. the two improvements show us how well each gun is and the true power of each gun that wasn't here in 1.3. using that argument to help you doesn't show any drawbacks to the AR and shows how powerful the AR really is. I used my own personal experience with weak skills into the AR to show it's effectiveness with small damage buffs (in my case, 5% damage increase on the STD AR). others are using maxed out skills to theory test damages and such to prove it's effectiveness

my internet connection is slow right now... but i will respond to more of these comments tomorrow. but, upon reading this I must contend. Reducing its DPS will not render it useless. In fact it will excel at what its supposed to.

The AR is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none.
Reducing the DPS will force AR users to pick their battles. how so?

a lower DPS means that an AR user in close range won't try to take on an HMG or shotgun, or SMG.
a lower DPS means that at longer ranges an AR will not try to take on a scrambler or lazer.


how will this effect AR game play
for most players they will just try to find something else to use.
for skilled players they will fight in a situation advantageous to the AR over the weapon they are facing. Note the following examples:

• the AR user upon seeing a scrambler being fired will either A) retreat if the distance is can't be closed fast enough or B) if inclose quarters close the distance in order to have the upperhand on the Scrambler.
• the AR user sees an HMG. the AR user will obviously not consider charging the HMG user due to the ARs lower dps and the medium frames limited ehp. therefore he will engage the heavy at a range outside the heavies range. this may put the ARs dps lower because the range is farther but he is playing to the heavies weakness.
the heavy for his part must retreat or die.

so, as for me I want a damage nerf.



your points are valid concerns however. If the AR gets reduced Range as opposed to a dps nerf, to perhaps that of the HMG with a 20% damage reduction that would suffice.remember reducing the range proportionally to other ARs still doesn't ensure that it won't make a weapon obsolete. The AR actually needs both a range and damage nerf but, not too much of a range nerf . I mean people nerfed the flaylocks radius (radius to a splash weapon is like range to a bullet hose weapon), and a damage nerf.


conclusion
the Ar should be no exception its range is too high and dps is too high. The AR should be a jack of all trades. [b] ITS designed to play to the weaknesses of other weapons. therefore it need not be strong, it only needs to be able to function well where other weapons don't. range nerf and dps nerf. (if dps nerf is big, then range nerf is small and vice versa. dnt break the gun, just nerf it)

Korvin Lomont

• the dps on the AScr is actually slightly higher than a milita AR but drastically lower than a GEK. the Ascr is a lvl4 weapon, and it did not receive the 10% buff that weapons after uprising got.
• what is more the damage fall off over range makes it have actually less range than the AR.
• the Ascr has greater recoil than a gallente AR
• it does 120% to shields and 80% to armor. combining this with its horrific damage fall off and recoil make it horrible verses hybrid tankers and armor tankers.
• most caldari hybrid tank, heavies have tons of armor, galente are armor tankers, and amarr are hybrid. the Ascr works well on minmintar
• strange hit detection glitch causes rounds not to count as hits when strafing side to side.

these weapons are by no means identifcal nor do they have the same dps due to these factrs

+1 for a total weapon rebalance across the board.

I agree the CCP should do the same for handheld weapons and dropsuits what they plan for vehicles a complete rework to ged rid of the mess we have right now.

I just feel like saying..

If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )?

Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though..

And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/

So there's that..

The AR needs a range nerf for sure but not a dps nerf if at all it needs a dps buff alongside with the range nerf. Remember the AR is supposed to be HIGH DPS and LOW Range. As with all gallente weaponry.

Just on a sidenote the AsCR has nearly the same DPS and the SR can out dps any light anti infantry weapon I know.

The problem I see is simple CCP seems to hesitate to give weapons their niche the AsCR and the AR are nearly identical in their performance: similar Range similar dps thats strange.

The only way a HMG can out dps an AR is because of dispersion, the HMG has right off quite a noticeable higher DPS. So high Dispersion and High Rof makes it good in cqc in theorie as dispersion won't hinder your shot from hitting your target.

Ok 'D' your scaring me now...

SMG, are killing at longer ranges now (double smg fits are becoming more and more common) and absolutely pwning at closer ranges. Im seeing HMG heavies coming out last in straight engagements...

SR's of all descriptions are doing really well with this build. In many cases out performing their AR brothers. To the point that many die hard AR users i know have swapped out.

LR are better, but are in direct competition with the SR and AR. They can still pull ahead in a few area but there isnt much of a niche for them atm

Shotguns are doing exactly what they say on the box. With a Scout buff (they dont die if you sneeze to hard) this will become the cause of many sweet tears.

HMG's are getting out performed. They are workable, but there are other weapons that do their job better, in too many areas.

AR's... i would say too much range... but until the other racial variants are out and a full balance on the group is done i cant say what should be done...
They are doing what they should, but too well. Stepping on the toes of many other systems.

According to the description, the assault rifle is the most advanced weapon of its kind. This means it is, in fact not a jack of all trades, but a master of all trades. This guy's counter to that is that it isn't because it has a medium range. All I have to say is that it doesn't have to have the range of a sniper rifle to have a pretty good range. If CCP happens to Nerf this gun, I hope it can still live up to its description, the most advanced weapon of its class.

If the hmg is a minmatar weapon, then its actully long range suppresion, and short range breaching, liken the mass driver, it's dispersion is high because suppresing an enemy shouldn't mean butchering him with a hose of gunfire, it needs a range boost to about 25m and 10% more dispersion!!

AR clip size needs to be halved, simple fix the thing can still hit near 900hp in a clip with half the capacity!!!

If the hmg is a minmatar weapon, then its actully long range suppresion, and short range breaching, liken the mass driver, it's dispersion is high because suppresing an enemy shouldn't mean butchering him with a hose of gunfire, it needs a range boost to about 25m and 10% more dispersion!!

[quote=Monkey MAC][quote=Korvin Lomont][quote=Kekklian Noobatronic]stuff

850+ EHP Mediums doing their full damage aren't really concerned with a weapon that will take 10 seconds of continuous fire to apply any meaningful damage, while their weapons take 2-4 seconds to finish off the person doing the suppression.

Take any real conflict. WW1, WW2, etc. HMG's dealt full damage out far longer than their smaller counterparts. That made people fear incoming damage - the very nature of "supression". In it's current form, the dust HMG is not a real supression weapon. AR's are, however.

In addition to nerfing the ARs DPS, I also, propose a 25% increase in the range of the shotgun.
The shotgun is the only primary weapon without splash damage designed for close range, so it should have a longer range to help it compete better in CQB with SMG and ARs.

The shotgun shouldn't compete with the AR for range. It's a shotgun! Give it a higher damage rate to make it as worthwhile as the AR if needed, but keep it close range. The shotgun's range is long enough as it is.

CCP shouldn't model other weapons after the AR. Balance is key, but not by turning every other weapon into an AR. Variety is key!

The SR can out dps any light anti infantry weapon I know.

According to the description, the assault rifle is the most advanced weapon of its kind. This means it is, in fact not a jack of all trades, but a master of all trades. If CCP happens to Nerf this gun, I hope it can still live up to its description, the most advanced weapon of its class.

the ar doesnt out perform every other gun in the game idiots...


look at assualt fg every says they r op..

look at laser those were said to out perform everything before the nerf..
and now we r saying nerf ar...


this is just plain stupidity...

just because it std ar can kill a proto suit doesnt mean it needs nerfing...

NO no one can take 4-5 shots from a charge sniper rifle.

the ar doesnt out perform every other gun in the game idiots...


look at assualt fg every says they r op..

look at laser those were said to out perform everything before the nerf..
and now we r saying nerf ar...


this is just plain stupidity...

just because it std ar can kill a proto suit doesnt mean it needs nerfing...

The shotgun shouldn't compete with the AR for range. It's a shotgun! Give it a higher damage rate to make it as worthwhile as the AR if needed, but keep it close range. The shotgun's range is long enough as it is.

CCP shouldn't model other weapons after the AR. Balance is key, but not by turning every other weapon into an AR. Variety is key!

laser werent super op as the optimal which was in fact mid 2 long range was very effective.

but little did they know all u had to do to counter them was rush them as the laser sucked horribly in close range...
it was more of the laser sniper rifle..

but the unspecced std laser was pretty decent before uprising...

and now its playable.. but barely playable..

the laser would need to be fully specced into with proficiency skill maxed to compare with my proficiency maxed ar..

my point is the ar feels as if it needs to be specced into just to be decent at killing...

just like the laser rifle currently..

all the other weapons that i have used so far didnt really need speccing into to be good at killing..

the ar so far does..when it comes to killing...

if unspecced most ppl would probably have to make up for the damage loss by wearing a heavy suit or something...

and what would probably make any and all guns op would be the proficiency skill maxed combined with damage mods...


and then u have a gun of mass destruction...

although i dont remember seeing any laser light shows until a 1 or 2 weeks before uprising came...

just like before the lav nerf...

it seems that just before every nerf the about to be nerfed weapon becomes the most complained about weapon and most used weapon right before its nerfed...


the ar seems fine where its at because it also seems to be on the same level with majority of all the other weapons...

and laser going to see some more nerf threads when players start fully speccing into it and maxing its proficiency level...

the main problem is not the gun it self.

its more or less the modules added to increase the guns power...

so nerfing the gun makes it useless and mean that ud have to fully max out all the skills for it and add damage mods to it just to make it decent again...

thats really all ive seen so far when it comes to these stupid and pointless nerf weapon class thread...

sooner or later with all this nerfing all of the guns will be doing 1 damage per hit or less...

so i think it would be better to get a detailed video proof of it instead of just using math... and we need the video evidence and every bit of detail from all sides..

I have to agree here, the range of the shotgun is fine. I've tested it against heavies in my own corp and it reaches 0% effectiveness at 30m, you can still do measureable damage at about 20m and less. This is fine for the shotty, so long as it works. If they fix the hit detection properly and the shotty will be fine notwithstanding other issues. The real problem lies in the ability to close the distance and compete at close range. There are very few weapons that should currently have high CQC hip fire accuracy, but everything does. It is currently a weapon without a niche do to unreliability and the ability of others to do the exact same effective damage within shotgun optimal range and still be effective at longer ranges.

Do you believe all the sales crap that's printed on the box?

Because that's what it is - sales crap. It doesn't literally mean that the AR should outperform any other light weapon in the game.

forge guns need time to charge up and you can't aim. plus the assault can't hold it's charge so you need a great deal of skill to hit with it. also the assault forge gun is also a lvl 4 gun as opposed to the lvl 1 STD AR.

again, stop dodging me and answer the questions i always ask, what are the drawbacks of the AR? if your argument is about other guns and not the AR's drawbacks, i will just assume you use the AR only and haven't touched others guns to see the difference

when we deal with the assault rifle on any game in general..

its has few drawbacks..

it is designed to have great versatility..

plus this is the galente assault rifle we r talking about..

the other racial variants have not been released yet as this is still a beta...

but the galente assault rifle needs no tweaking as of yet...

and it should not be necessary to fully spec into something just for it to be decent at what its designed to do....

and the ar currently is already one of those guns...

md can kill with out needing to spec into it..

fg can kill with out need for speccing into it..

a sniper can kill with out need to spec into it so why shouldnt the ar be able to do this.....

an unspecced ar would most likely require lots of hp and a few damage mods in order to kill stuff with it..

its either that or tons of skill at using cover and dogding bullets and using other players as human shields.

and assault rifles in general have few drawbacks...

but realistically the assault rifle is as close to real life as it can get... in a futuristic universe..


and is already one of the better balanced guns in the lower leveled section..

its not over powered as of right now its the fact that majority of the other guns have there weaknesses and strengths..

and the assault rifle is pretty much a combination of the majority of the weapons on here thus the versatility.

theres nothing to say about the ar other than compare it to other weaponry because thats all there is to do when it comes to nerfs..


the assault rifle cant really shoot an lav to death..

like what the hmg can do...

the ar has a much lower rof than the smg which is why the ar gets 10 extra damage per shot...

the ar is the only weapon placed on even ground with majority of the other weapons its almost a combination of all the other weapons packed into one gun....

the ar essentially is the smg and a rifle combined...

it cant out perform an smg in close quarters and it cant out perform a rifle at range...


but players manage to get around this stuff any ways which is why every 1 claims a certain weapon is op...

the gun itself isnt but its the stuff used with the gun that makes it seems that way...

when we deal with the assault rifle on any game in general..

its has few drawbacks..

it is designed to have great versatility..

plus this is the galente assault rifle we r talking about..

the other racial variants have not been released yet as this is still a beta...

but the galente assault rifle needs no tweaking as of yet...

the drawback of the ar in general r few one being that its in the middle of majority of the guns..
it doesnt do av...

it cant out perform a sniper rifle and it doesnt out perform and smg..
when in there areas..

and if the ar is so op then explain to why every1 on this game that uses and ar dies so much?

by weapons other than an ar?

if the ar is so op explain why no1 can go 50/0 with it?


it is a versatile weapon with few drawbacks/weaknesses this also mean it has no super strength..

and because of this it is the assault rifles strength.. and weakness...

and can be modified to be more effective in certain environments using the same version would mean it will become weaker in another...

its the one drawback that can also play as its strength...

if u see a player using a breach.. get some distance..
if u see some1 using the tac ar...rush him....

if u see some1 using a regular ar...any thing would EQUALLY work against him...


the assault rifles one drawback can also be its strength..

its designed to assault objectives and positions with out a need for a class specific weapon in combat...

thus the assault rifle...

the drawback of the ar in general r few one being that its in the middle of majority of the guns..
it doesnt do av...

it is a versatile weapon with few drawbacks/weaknesses this also mean it has no super strength..

and because of this it is the assault rifles strength.. and weakness...

and can be modified to be more effective in certain environments using the same version would mean it will become weaker in another...

its the one drawback that can also play as its strength...

if u see a player using a breach.. get some distance..
if u see some1 using the tac ar...rush him....

if u see some1 using a regular ar...any thing would EQUALLY work against him...


the assault rifles one drawback can also be its strength..

its designed to assault objectives and positions with out a need for a class specific weapon in combat...

thus the assault rifle...

game is still incomplete...

and needs to be worked on still it basically is a beta..

everything hasnt been released yet..

and the one ar having majority of the other racial traits is probably going to be awhile to be redesigned..

the assault scrambler rifle is pretty much the amarr version of the galente assault rifle...

plus all u did was quote a small part of my post like an idiot...

and whats weak is your stupid maths and crappy skill...

what ruins decent weaponry and decent stuff that seems to be already balanced is when an idiot comes along takes a look at all the stats tries to do math and yells and yells and cries saying its over powered.

if the std regular assault rifle is so op explain why it cant ohk anything?

explain why it doesnt obliterate the already paper thin tanks we have?

explain why it does so little damage to a lav?

its the most versatile weapon because it is designed to do multiple things...

assault objectives secure areas..kill infantry...

it might be dominating the field in numbers but its not one single player going 50/0 with it.

if that happens then it should be talked about if its over powered or not...

but so far the ar and along with all the other weaponry in game feels as if its on an even playing level with some weapons having an advantage over others..

the assault rifles strength is the ability to play to your weaknesses..

and it can easily be countered by everything...

its not over powered and needs no nerfing currently..

and just to clarify

no weakness means equally weak to everything u idiot..

if it had no weakness it would be unstoppable..and it is quite stoppable..

well it ends up being nerfed for the short terms and tweaked later the ar currently seems to be the only weapon ccp got right on nearly the first try...

all the weaponry needs tweaking but the assault rifle in general has few drawbacks to begin with..

in real life the assault rifle is just an improved version of the smg...

its where the assault rifle came from in the first place...

its pretty much balanced the way it is currently...

in terms of gameplay..

of course the ar is probably going to be alot deadlier at range in the hands of a kbm user...

so its not accuracy so much as precision..

its quite inaccurate at those longer ranges and only a few rounds will hit but do barely any damage...


every little item on the game doesnt need to have massive drawbacks..

this game isnt run out into the middle of gunfire..

of course doing that is going to involve u getting mowed down in less than 1 sec...

nerfing the most common weapon so u can take out a large group of players isnt going to balance gameplay..

and so far the only major reason i see the nerf ar threads mostly involves a proto bear wanting to stop dieing..
so the ar stats should stay...

if u died to a gun by running out into the open u deserve that death...

just because a single weapon doesnt have many massive drawbacks, doesnt mean it should be useless...

ccp is trying to balance the game and release the new stuff..

basically doing both at the same time

its why some of the stuff has been nerfed and buffed..

well it ends up being nerfed for the short terms and tweaked later the ar currently seems to be the only weapon ccp got right on nearly the first try...

all the weaponry needs tweaking but the assault rifle in general has few drawbacks to begin with..

in real life the assault rifle is just an improved version of the smg...

its where the assault rifle came from in the first place...

its pretty much balanced the way it is currently...

in terms of gameplay..

of course the ar is probably going to be alot deadlier at range in the hands of a kbm user...

so its not accuracy so much as precision..

its quite inaccurate at those longer ranges and only a few rounds will hit but do barely any damage...


every little item on the game doesnt need to have massive drawbacks..

this game isnt run out into the middle of gunfire..

of course doing that is going to involve u getting mowed down in less than 1 sec...

nerfing the most common weapon so u can take out a large group of players isnt going to balance gameplay..

and so far the only major reason i see the nerf ar threads mostly involves a proto bear wanting to stop dieing..
so the ar stats should stay...

if u died to a gun by running out into the open u deserve that death...

just because a single weapon doesnt have many massive drawbacks, doesnt mean it should be useless...

ccp is trying to balance the game and release the new stuff..

basically doing both at the same time

its why some of the stuff has been nerfed and buffed..

the ar isnt better than them.....

its the stuff added to the ar indirectly such as damage mods and such...

its not the best gun in the game there is no best gun in the game its just the one gun thats part of most players gameplay styles...

majority of the players have come from games like halo, battlefield..

cod..mag..

and many more games...just to try dust 514 out...

they find a gun they like it gets nerfed they leave..

and since majority of the players start out with the ar a nerf to that gun would possibly make players quite before they even start...

an indirect nerf to the ar would be to remove any and all damage mods for it(not the skills for it though)...

that would weaken it by alot since most players seem dependent on its increased damage from the mods..


the ar isnt the 1 gun beats all right now...

mds r still good counters to it...


my point is is that it is on the same level of the other guns...

most of the players have just speced into them.

which is why they get the most kills for being numerous..

the guns that tend to be overpowered is when they do to well in there specified weakness ....


the ar has many minor weaknesses..

and also many strengths...

its never been the god gun and never will...

but it is the infantries main gun...

which is why its on an even playing field compared to all the other guns.. when fully maxed out with the proficiency skill..

it is balanced compared to the other guns...

the hmg is still good if used right and so are all the other guns if used right...

the maps being redesigned to be unfriendly to snipers is most because of the fact that they could rain down bullets with impunity as they could pretty much get anyway with a dropship..

and the redline sniping..

with the assault rifle u r always within range of other players..

always...

heavies didnt turn to forge sniping because of ars it was because of the nerf to the hmg...


owning an assault rifle doesnt make u invincible.

in fact the ar can get killed pretty easily...

thats because its the main weapon for almost every player.who start out on the game..

all the other guns take alot longer to spec into..

if the other guns were as easy to spec into as the ar

we wouldnt have the massive ar thing...

it really isnt an assault rifle so much as a plasma rifle..

its most common but isnt extremely deadly in a 1v1 situation.

the other guns such as mass drivers can hold the advantage in a 1v1 situation or possibly a group of players.

all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..

although the ar isnt one of the super guns..

sure ive gone 16/0 and gotten around 20 kills with several other guns but when i ended up fighting against the full proto pubstompers..

a std hmg was more effective at killing them i even managed to killa few of them with a std mass driver..

but couldnt really touch them with a regular AR...


its alot less effective at range but a small minor range nerf for it could be ok..

it should be effective mostly in the close to mid range but damage becomes less effective at longer range...

but i just dont see nerfing the assault rifle it self as a good idea..

it needs to be nerfed indirectly since its base stats without mods seem fine...

although when i first started out playing the game i actually had to max out proficiency just to be able to go positive with this thing..
when i unlocked the laser rifle to try it out it was very good..

later i tried the mass driver still did very good.

then unlocked the hmg and did pretty well with that as well..

obtained the assault fg and assaulted positions with it in cqc and possibly got the best kdr i have ever had in the game so far with it...
..

but i think the std and mlt ars them selves r fine currently..

of course theres no obvious telling somthing is op just by math which is another thing.

i still havnt noticed much of a difference from 1.3 to 1.4 since this update.

since im still doing pretty well and still dieing to a single m1 locus nade majority of the time..

all i really noticed from the update is the fact that i got 50 more hp on my default mlt suit...

that is really the only major noticeable change i have seen so far. im still able to do well with all the weapons and laser rifle is use able again...

i kinda think this update did kill some of the pubstomping as they seem to be getting killed more often...

i still think every1 got a buff from the update one way or another...

ive still seen players pubstomp with shotguns, smg,, every other weapon on the game..

the mass driver seem to be one of the most common pub stomp weapons aside from the ar....

any one of the guns is deadlier than an assault rifle if used in numbers..id like to see an entire team run straight plasma cannons.. and see what happens with all that plasma spam...it might out perform the assault rifle..

a group of heavies and a logi can out perform the average ar group.

the ar might play a large tacticle role in the out come of some of the battles..

but since ar is the most common and most used there isnt much need to nerf it into the ground..

the base stats currently seems fine..

its all i can say is that the ar seems fine in general..

if we can redesign the assault rifle it would be to change its name to a plasma rifle..

we would also have to get the other racial weapon variants out.

as im sure caldari and minmatar each have their own version of an assault rifle..the amarr assault rifle is the scrambler rifle..
alot of the racial weaponry is missing still but i think the galente should be tweaked after the rest of the weapons come out..