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ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 68	Posted - 2013.09.11 23:56:00 - [151] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: well it ends up being nerfed for the short terms and tweaked later the ar currently seems to be the only weapon ccp got right on nearly the first try... all the weaponry needs tweaking but the assault rifle in general has few drawbacks to begin with.. in real life the assault rifle is just an improved version of the smg... its where the assault rifle came from in the first place... its pretty much balanced the way it is currently... in terms of gameplay.. of course the ar is probably going to be alot deadlier at range in the hands of a kbm user... so its not accuracy so much as precision.. its quite inaccurate at those longer ranges and only a few rounds will hit but do barely any damage... every little item on the game doesnt need to have massive drawbacks.. this game isnt run out into the middle of gunfire.. of course doing that is going to involve u getting mowed down in less than 1 sec... nerfing the most common weapon so u can take out a large group of players isnt going to balance gameplay.. and so far the only major reason i see the nerf ar threads mostly involves a proto bear wanting to stop dieing.. so the ar stats should stay... if u died to a gun by running out into the open u deserve that death... just because a single weapon doesnt have many massive drawbacks, doesnt mean it should be useless... ccp is trying to balance the game and release the new stuff.. basically doing both at the same time its why some of the stuff has been nerfed and buffed.. a versatile gun like the AR should in fact have all minor drawbacks of the gun's that it's trying to be. i will say this from another thread i saw with the sniper rifle, CCP is trying to balance out things for all guns, but for the sniper rifle, CCP is nerfing them indirectly with map changes and such, to make them more closer to the ground and closer to CQC people. in that very thread, they say that they want to tone down the problem of not being able to reach the sniper with any gun but a sniper, making it harder for them to perform well enough in their role. with that, what is the role of the AR and why should the stats of said AR stay the way they are? the way i see it, 1 of two things must happen: 1) make other weapons perform well in their roles by buffing them or 2) tone down the AR to help bring other weapons in line to their roles without the AR being better then them
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 337	Posted - 2013.09.12 00:24:00 - [152] - Quote the ar isnt better than them..... its the stuff added to the ar indirectly such as damage mods and such... its not the best gun in the game there is no best gun in the game its just the one gun thats part of most players gameplay styles... majority of the players have come from games like halo, battlefield.. cod..mag.. and many more games...just to try dust 514 out... they find a gun they like it gets nerfed they leave.. and since majority of the players start out with the ar a nerf to that gun would possibly make players quite before they even start... an indirect nerf to the ar would be to remove any and all damage mods for it(not the skills for it though)... that would weaken it by alot since most players seem dependent on its increased damage from the mods.. the ar isnt the 1 gun beats all right now... mds r still good counters to it... my point is is that it is on the same level of the other guns... most of the players have just speced into them. which is why they get the most kills for being numerous.. the guns that tend to be overpowered is when they do to well in there specified weakness .... the ar has many minor weaknesses.. and also many strengths... its never been the god gun and never will... but it is the infantries main gun... which is why its on an even playing field compared to all the other guns.. when fully maxed out with the proficiency skill.. it is balanced compared to the other guns... the hmg is still good if used right and so are all the other guns if used right... the maps being redesigned to be unfriendly to snipers is most because of the fact that they could rain down bullets with impunity as they could pretty much get anyway with a dropship.. and the redline sniping.. with the assault rifle u r always within range of other players.. always... heavies didnt turn to forge sniping because of ars it was because of the nerf to the hmg... owning an assault rifle doesnt make u invincible. in fact the ar can get killed pretty easily...
ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 68	Posted - 2013.09.12 00:33:00 - [153] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: the ar isnt better than them..... its the stuff added to the ar indirectly such as damage mods and such... its not the best gun in the game there is no best gun in the game its just the one gun thats part of most players gameplay styles... majority of the players have come from games like halo, battlefield.. cod..mag.. and many more games...just to try dust 514 out... they find a gun they like it gets nerfed they leave.. and since majority of the players start out with the ar a nerf to that gun would possibly make players quite before they even start... an indirect nerf to the ar would be to remove any and all damage mods for it(not the skills for it though)... that would weaken it by alot since most players seem dependent on its increased damage from the mods.. the ar isnt the 1 gun beats all right now... mds r still good counters to it... my point is is that it is on the same level of the other guns... most of the players have just speced into them. which is why they get the most kills for being numerous.. the guns that tend to be overpowered is when they do to well in there specified weakness .... the ar has many minor weaknesses.. and also many strengths... its never been the god gun and never will... but it is the infantries main gun... which is why its on an even playing field compared to all the other guns.. when fully maxed out with the proficiency skill.. it is balanced compared to the other guns... the hmg is still good if used right and so are all the other guns if used right... the maps being redesigned to be unfriendly to snipers is most because of the fact that they could rain down bullets with impunity as they could pretty much get anyway with a dropship.. and the redline sniping.. with the assault rifle u r always within range of other players.. always... heavies didnt turn to forge sniping because of ars it was because of the nerf to the hmg... owning an assault rifle doesnt make u invincible. in fact the ar can get killed pretty easily... problem though, i stated over and over that i don't have much to make a STD AR do the crazy damage as someone who is specced into them doing. i can remove my light damage mod and still do great with it then using a HMG and such. also as for the redline sniping, that is still a problem and all they did was make it harder for the true snipers to work with. just because the AR can easily die to other guns doesn't mean that other other guns don't have it easier to deal with the AR. all guns when used right can be deadly, yea. but when the AR it used in general, it's deadly, damage mods or not. this game has just become a game of numbers now and no other gun can do well against the AR cause it's has everything at once without noticible weaknesses
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 337	Posted - 2013.09.12 01:16:00 - [154] - Quote thats because its the main weapon for almost every player.who start out on the game.. all the other guns take alot longer to spec into.. if the other guns were as easy to spec into as the ar we wouldnt have the massive ar thing... it really isnt an assault rifle so much as a plasma rifle.. its most common but isnt extremely deadly in a 1v1 situation. the other guns such as mass drivers can hold the advantage in a 1v1 situation or possibly a group of players. all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment.. although the ar isnt one of the super guns.. sure ive gone 16/0 and gotten around 20 kills with several other guns but when i ended up fighting against the full proto pubstompers.. a std hmg was more effective at killing them i even managed to killa few of them with a std mass driver.. but couldnt really touch them with a regular AR... its alot less effective at range but a small minor range nerf for it could be ok.. it should be effective mostly in the close to mid range but damage becomes less effective at longer range... but i just dont see nerfing the assault rifle it self as a good idea.. it needs to be nerfed indirectly since its base stats without mods seem fine... although when i first started out playing the game i actually had to max out proficiency just to be able to go positive with this thing.. when i unlocked the laser rifle to try it out it was very good.. later i tried the mass driver still did very good. then unlocked the hmg and did pretty well with that as well.. obtained the assault fg and assaulted positions with it in cqc and possibly got the best kdr i have ever had in the game so far with it... .. but i think the std and mlt ars them selves r fine currently.. of course theres no obvious telling somthing is op just by math which is another thing. i still havnt noticed much of a difference from 1.3 to 1.4 since this update. since im still doing pretty well and still dieing to a single m1 locus nade majority of the time.. all i really noticed from the update is the fact that i got 50 more hp on my default mlt suit... that is really the only major noticeable change i have seen so far. im still able to do well with all the weapons and laser rifle is use able again... i kinda think this update did kill some of the pubstomping as they seem to be getting killed more often... i still think every1 got a buff from the update one way or another... ive still seen players pubstomp with shotguns, smg,, every other weapon on the game.. the mass driver seem to be one of the most common pub stomp weapons aside from the ar.... any one of the guns is deadlier than an assault rifle if used in numbers..id like to see an entire team run straight plasma cannons.. and see what happens with all that plasma spam...it might out perform the assault rifle.. a group of heavies and a logi can out perform the average ar group. the ar might play a large tacticle role in the out come of some of the battles.. but since ar is the most common and most used there isnt much need to nerf it into the ground.. the base stats currently seems fine.. its all i can say is that the ar seems fine in general.. if we can redesign the assault rifle it would be to change its name to a plasma rifle.. we would also have to get the other racial weapon variants out. as im sure caldari and minmatar each have their own version of an assault rifle..the amarr assault rifle is the scrambler rifle.. alot of the racial weaponry is missing still but i think the galente should be tweaked after the rest of the weapons come out..
ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 68	Posted - 2013.09.12 01:26:00 - [155] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: thats because its the main weapon for almost every player.who start out on the game.. all the other guns take alot longer to spec into.. if the other guns were as easy to spec into as the ar we wouldnt have the massive ar thing... it really isnt an assault rifle so much as a plasma rifle.. its most common but isnt extremely deadly in a 1v1 situation. the other guns such as mass drivers can hold the advantage in a 1v1 situation or possibly a group of players. all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment.. although the ar isnt one of the super guns.. sure ive gone 16/0 and gotten around 20 kills with several other guns but when i ended up fighting against the full proto pubstompers.. a std hmg was more effective at killing them i even managed to killa few of them with a std mass driver.. but couldnt really touch them with a regular AR... its alot less effective at range but a small minor range nerf for it could be ok.. it should be effective mostly in the close to mid range but damage becomes less effective at longer range... but i just dont see nerfing the assault rifle it self as a good idea.. it needs to be nerfed indirectly since its base stats without mods seem fine... although when i first started out playing the game i actually had to max out proficiency just to be able to go positive with this thing.. when i unlocked the laser rifle to try it out it was very good.. later i tried the mass driver still did very good. then unlocked the hmg and did pretty well with that as well.. obtained the assault fg and assaulted positions with it in cqc and possibly got the best kdr i have ever had in the game so far with it... .. but i think the std and mlt ars them selves r fine currently.. of course theres no obvious telling somthing is op just by math which is another thing. i still havnt noticed much of a difference from 1.3 to 1.4 since this update. since im still doing pretty well and still dieing to a single m1 locus nade majority of the time.. all i really noticed from the update is the fact that i got 50 more hp on my default mlt suit... that is really the only major noticeable change i have seen so far. im still able to do well with all the weapons and laser rifle is use able again... i kinda think this update did kill some of the pubstomping as they seem to be getting killed more often... i still think every1 got a buff from the update one way or another... ive still seen players pubstomp with shotguns, smg,, every other weapon on the game.. the mass driver seem to be one of the most common pub stomp weapons aside from the ar.... any one of the guns is deadlier than an assault rifle if used in numbers..id like to see an entire team run straight plasma cannons.. and see what happens with all that plasma spam...it might out perform the assault rifle.. a group of heavies and a logi can out perform the average ar group. the ar might play a large tacticle role in the out come of some of the battles.. but since ar is the most common and most used there isnt much need to nerf it into the ground.. the base stats currently seems fine.. its all i can say is that the ar seems fine in general.. if we can redesign the assault rifle it would be to change its name to a plasma rifle.. we would also have to get the other racial weapon variants out. as im sure caldari and minmatar each have their own version of an assault rifle..the amarr assault rifle is the scrambler rifle.. alot of the racial weaponry is missing still but i think the galente should be tweaked after the rest of the weapons come out.. don't use the "all races guns hasn't come out" excuse, as some of the guns were already nerfed without other varients coming out. within this update alone, i look at my killfeed to see mostly AR where as i would see other guns in other updates. something is going on if i see more AR users then before, even if it's MLT AR
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1024	Posted - 2013.09.12 01:38:00 - [156] - Quote Im going to be honest with you. I dont know why CCP BUFFED the AR. I remember it used to do 31 / 31.5 / 32.5 ish damage. Now it goes around 37.5 at proto level. I DONT KNOW WHY CCP did this. Yes the AR is a pain in the butt to deal with and of course our friend CLONE117 has a lot wrong,but he does have a point. The AR IS the most Deadly weapon in a 1v1 situation, not considering ranges. ''all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..'' Not really bro,you need proficiency 3-4 to make the Laser rifle work and beat a MLT AR. You are over reacting a little. But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT> Not taking into consideration,enemy movement, own fault misses, forgot to reload,etc... The real nerf the AR needs is: -ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding) -Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons. Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time. The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op.... IMO that is.
ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 68	Posted - 2013.09.12 01:46:00 - [157] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Im going to be honest with you. I dont know why CCP BUFFED the AR. I remember it used to do 31 / 31.5 / 32.5 ish damage. Now it goes around 37.5 at proto level. I DONT KNOW WHY CCP did this. Yes the AR is a pain in the butt to deal with and of course our friend CLONE117 has a lot wrong,but he does have a point. The AR IS the most Deadly weapon in a 1v1 situation, not considering ranges. ''all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..'' Not really bro,you need proficiency 3-4 to make the Laser rifle work and beat a MLT AR. You are over reacting a little. But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT> Not taking into consideration,enemy movement, own fault misses, forgot to reload,etc... The real nerf the AR needs is: -ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding) -Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons. Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time. The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op.... IMO that is. that much is true yes, and they do need a nerf somewhere. but most of his points weren't about the AR but about what other guns are doing in their respective roles. he stated everything that other weapons did in details, except the AR when he made comparisons. to me, he just only knows the "balance" of the AR and not other weapons
Cosgar ParagonX 5156	Posted - 2013.09.12 02:18:00 - [158] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Im going to be honest with you. I dont know why CCP BUFFED the AR. I remember it used to do 31 / 31.5 / 32.5 ish damage. Now it goes around 37.5 at proto level. I DONT KNOW WHY CCP did this. Yes the AR is a pain in the butt to deal with and of course our friend CLONE117 has a lot wrong,but he does have a point. The AR IS the most Deadly weapon in a 1v1 situation, not considering ranges. ''all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..'' Not really bro,you need proficiency 3-4 to make the Laser rifle work and beat a MLT AR. You are over reacting a little. But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT> Not taking into consideration,enemy movement, own fault misses, forgot to reload,etc... The real nerf the AR needs is: -ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding) -Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons. Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time. The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op.... IMO that is. Bring strafing back and add some kick/dispersion to the AR.
echo47 Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 67	Posted - 2013.09.12 02:44:00 - [159] - Quote D legendary hero[u wrote: THE SOLUTION[/u] AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less. its damage per shot should be 24-25, and its recoil should be the same as the AScr. It needs to have the same damage fall of as the HMG with only 20% more range. All the math is nice, but when it comes to making changes to such as "balancing" I prefer game play to be the deciding factor meaning actual performance. The real issue with the AR and it being such an effective weapon is the mechanics of the gun not its stats on paper. This is why the full auto versions of this gun outshines all others. With AA on and the changes made to fix hit detection this feature of raised accuracy by rapidly tapping fire is what needs to be changed. Before we nerf damage I would like to see what sort of difference in performance we would see if accuracy was not increased by rapidly firing. And what effect would a modded controller have on this mechanic? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34746&p=3 Post#48
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 955	Posted - 2013.09.12 02:47:00 - [160] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: game is still incomplete... and needs to be worked on still it basically is a beta.. everything hasnt been released yet.. and the one ar having majority of the other racial traits is probably going to be awhile to be redesigned.. the assault scrambler rifle is pretty much the amarr version of the galente assault rifle...plus all u did was quote a small part of my post like an idiot... and whats weak is your stupid maths and crappy skill... Again, this does not justify letting the AR be OP. It needs a nerf like all the other guns that were nerfed before the game is complete.The flaylock came out prebalanced and you had it nerfed. there is no excuse for the AR. If you put your posts into logical paragraphs it be easier to tell where your insanity ends and your stupidity begins. whats weak is your command of the english language. Quote: what ruins decent weaponry and decent stuff that seems to be already balanced is when an idiot comes along takes a look at all the stats tries to do math and yells and yells and cries saying its over powered. And this is what I see you AR noobs did and are still doing with the MD, LAZER, FORGE GUN, HMG, & FLAYLOCK. NOT to mention tanks, dropships and the very long list you fckers nerfed. So, there is still no excuse the AR is still OP. AR must be nerfed. Quote:* if the std regular assault rifle is so op explain why it cant ohk anything? explain why it doesnt obliterate the already paper thin tanks we have? explain why it does so little damage to a lav? its the most versatile weapon because it is designed to do multiple things... assault objectives secure areas..kill infantry... it might be dominating the field in numbers but its not one single player going 50/0 with it. 1. ARs as I should earlier are capable of instant kills on many suits, and with enough damage mods can drop a heavy in 2 seconds out 60m away! 2. Saying that an AR does little damage to vehicles is no excuse. Almost all the weapons you had nerfed did little to no damage to vehicles, and yet they were still nerfed. 3. No one ever went 50/0 with an HMG, MD, Lazer, LAV, tank,dropship, sniper, flaylock or forge gun. And et all these guns got nerfed into oblivion OR you are pushing to nerf them. Yes, not a single weapon that has ever been nerfed in dust went 50/0 so, if this is a hidden criteria then please unnerf all guns that were ever nerfed. please explain to me why 85% of all kills every match come from ARs of some type? Quote: the assault rifles strength is the ability to play to your weaknesses.. and it can easily be countered by everything... its not over powered and needs no nerfing currently.. This is the point. the Ar IS supposed to play to other weapons weaknesses, BUT right now the AR can kill a specialty weapon in the specialty weapons optimal range. how is: killing a shotgunner in CQC out gunning an HMG with hip fire out ranging a SCr playing to the weakness of those weapons? it definitely needs nerfing. Quote: and just to clarify no weakness means equally weak to everything u idiot.. if it had no weakness it would be unstoppable..and it is quite stoppable.. ok, Im not going to sit here and teach you English too. When you put "No" in a sentence it negates or is a negative to the qualities of nouns in that sentence. therefore, 'no weakness" means that there is an absence of weakness. moron.

D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 956	Posted - 2013.09.12 02:58:00 - [161] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Im going to be honest with you. But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT> and this is hit detection makes a big difference where we see way too many ARs right now. with the improved hit detection 90%+ rounds are detected by the system the virtually non-existent recoil with 0SP in put in recoil reduction also make an important contribution the fact that dispersion is less than 1% further exacerbates the problem. the strong aim assist doesn't help either all these factors combine so, generally if the ar guy is ADS, most of the time 90%+ of that dps is applied to you. and since you don't really need more than at MAX 3 seconds of ADS on a single target, you don't really miss. Quote: The real nerf the AR needs is: -ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding) -Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons. Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time. The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op.... IMO that is. Dps is too high i can agree on your nerf idea, but its range and DPS need a nerf. nerf the dps to 340. nerf the range by 25%.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 956	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:05:00 - [162] - Quote echo47 wrote: D legendary hero[u wrote: THE SOLUTION[/u] AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less. its damage per shot should be 24-25, and its recoil should be the same as the AScr. It needs to have the same damage fall of as the HMG with only 20% more range. All the math is nice, but when it comes to making changes to such as "balancing" I prefer game play to be the deciding factor meaning actual performance. The real issue with the AR and it being such an effective weapon is the mechanics of the gun not its stats on paper. This is why the full auto versions of this gun outshines all others. With AA on and the changes made to fix hit detection this feature of raised accuracy by rapidly tapping fire is what needs to be changed. Before we nerf damage I would like to see what sort of difference in performance we would see if accuracy was not increased by rapidly firing. And what effect would a modded controller have on this mechanic? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34746&p=3 Post#48 Well, after the dps is nerfed, then perhaps these methods can be reviewed. remember no one brought up any of this nerfing the other 7 guns, and 2 suits. some of them were nerfed more than once. And the first thing nerfed was damage. in fact the flaylock had its direct impact, splash damage, splash radius and ammo nerfed. and it came out prenerfed too... lets not puss* foot around the issue here. everyone is trying to soften the nerf issue with ars. I say nay. Just nerf it like everything else was nerfed. then we can pick p the peices latter. but seriously, its DPS is too high regardless of the factors. It needs a recoil increase, dps nerf, range nerf, and disperion increase, and overheat increase (it fires plasma).
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1027	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:07:00 - [163] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: and this is hit detection makes a big difference where we see way too many ARs right now. with the improved hit detection 90%+ rounds are detected by the system the virtually non-existent recoil with 0SP in put in recoil reduction also make an important contribution the fact that dispersion is less than 1% further exacerbates the problem. the strong aim assist doesn't help either all these factors combine so, generally if the ar guy is ADS, most of the time 90%+ of that dps is applied to you. and since you don't really need more than at MAX 3 seconds of ADS on a single target, you don't really miss. Well we totally agree here. Quote: Dps is too high i can agree on your nerf idea, but its range and DPS need a nerf. nerf the dps to 340. nerf the range by 25%. I dont think the DPS nerf is needed.Here is why: You add dispertion rate with the idea that at FULL AUTO , only around 65-70% of the bullets will hit.This already turns down the DPS a lot. With some recoil the AR will have to be used in a matter that can be compared to the overheat mechanic of the scram/laser rifle,while not being less effective than Burst and TAc variants. (because you can still Full auto at Close quarters) With AA tuned down a little , the necesity of using controlled bursts instead of full auto a mid/long ranges ALSO turns ddown the overall DPS of the AR. I think this should be applied BEFORE even considering tuning down the DPS. This would help the AR have a more ''REALISTIC'' feel, while gicving skilled players an Advantage over scrubs PLUS keeping the AR CQ capabilities,that is what is supposed to make it the ''jack of all trades'' AR... Sorry for the mispels, my auto correct got f** up and my english spellign is really not that awesome...
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 956	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:20:00 - [164] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: D legendary hero wrote: and this is hit detection makes a big difference where we see way too many ARs right now. with the improved hit detection 90%+ rounds are detected by the system the virtually non-existent recoil with 0SP in put in recoil reduction also make an important contribution the fact that dispersion is less than 1% further exacerbates the problem. the strong aim assist doesn't help either all these factors combine so, generally if the ar guy is ADS, most of the time 90%+ of that dps is applied to you. and since you don't really need more than at MAX 3 seconds of ADS on a single target, you don't really miss. Well we totally agree here. Quote: Dps is too high i can agree on your nerf idea, but its range and DPS need a nerf. nerf the dps to 340. nerf the range by 25%. I dont think the DPS nerf is needed.Here is why: You add dispertion rate with the idea that at FULL AUTO , only around 65-70% of the bullets will hit.This already turns down the DPS a lot. With some recoil the AR will have to be used in a matter that can be compared to the overheat mechanic of the scram/laser rifle,while not being less effective than Burst and TAc variants. (because you can still Full auto at Close quarters) With AA tuned down a little , the necesity of using controlled bursts instead of full auto a mid/long ranges ALSO turns ddown the overall DPS of the AR. I think this should be applied BEFORE even considering tuning down the DPS. This would help the AR have a more ''REALISTIC'' feel, while gicving skilled players an Advantage over scrubs PLUS keeping the AR CQ capabilities,that is what is supposed to make it the ''jack of all trades'' AR... Sorry for the mispels, my auto correct got f up and my english spellign is really not that awesome... this is where i must disagree. The AR MUST GET A DPS NERF. damage mods will make its dps increase to that what a milita Ar would be now which is sorta OP but they sacrifice tanking to do so.** why the dps nerf won't hurt skilled players the CQC efficiency of the AR shouldnt come from its dps but its fire rate. how so? The AR should be a jack of all trades. as such it should excel where other weapons don't but fail hard where ever they do. So, in CQC its high fire rate and low DPS should over come, weapons that are in effective in CQC such as snipers and lazers, scramblers even. likewise at longer ranges its accuracy should over come CQC weapons like shotguns, SMGs... but its low dps would prevent it from out gunning Scr, HMGs, etc. So, with a dps of 340 an AR should: CQC AR < shotgun, SMG, other CQC weapons, flaylocks, scr pistols mid range AR > shotguns, SMGs, other CQC weapons, flaylocks, Scr pistols The low dps will not alter the performance of the AR when in its niche that is, a jack of all tradesmen. why? because when the AR is operating outside the effective ranges of CQC weapons, it will win. and when operating at a range ineffective for scramblers it will win. what else will a lower dps accomplish? the HMG will no longer be displaced. AR users will be suppressed from advancing by the HMG defender because the HMg will vastly out dps them. accomplishing the HMGs role of suppression. since a heavy suit can't pursue a medium per se, it will balance out as suppresion. the HMGs intended role. Scramblers will no longer be displaced, and will excel. in longer ranged combat.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 956	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:25:00 - [165] - Quote when you use something that isn't an AR in DUST 514 right now this happens .
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1030	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:31:00 - [166] - Quote @ LEgendary Hero EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR FREAKN MOUTH FULL WITH TRUTH, i still think a DPS nerf is unecessary if the changes i proposed get done XD This is why: -WIth all the firing in bursts / more aiming / recoil / bullet dispersion, making the most of the AR will take a fair amount of skill. No Spray and pray player will even defeat a skilled AR user. -As it is, Shotguns and SMG DO out-damage AR's in CQ (I do it all the time with my ADV SMG or Proto) and if i loose i had been severly injured. -As it is, the AR still looses to Laser rifle/TAC AR at mid-long ranges,i get mosts of my kills thanks to AR users shooting at me and thinking i dont have to respond,then imma chargin mai lazor! -The problem is other weapons DONT excel when they are supposed to, say HMG or Scrambler Rifle.....So they are in need of a BUFF. Im going to leave my post as it is,since you are clearly more educated in the issue, i havn't used AR in decades.... But i insist that those changes should be done first,and a buff of weapons taht are not preforming as expected before even considering turning down the DPS of the AR.I feel that if a AR user gets the hang of the weapon even with all that i proposed,he deserves a High DPS. ANd i've been doing REALLY good with LR , specially Vs AR, if i am positioned correctly XD
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 957	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:51:00 - [167] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ LEgendary Hero EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR FREAKN MOUTH FULL WITH TRUTH, i still think a DPS nerf is unecessary if the changes i proposed get done XD This is why: -WIth all the firing in bursts / more aiming / recoil / bullet dispersion, making the most of the AR will take a fair amount of skill. No Spray and pray player will even defeat a skilled AR user. -As it is, Shotguns and SMG DO out-damage AR's in CQ (I do it all the time with my ADV SMG or Proto) and if i loose i had been severly injured. -As it is, the AR still looses to Laser rifle/TAC AR at mid-long ranges,i get mosts of my kills thanks to AR users shooting at me and thinking i dont have to respond,then imma chargin mai lazor! -The problem is other weapons DONT excel when they are supposed to, say HMG or Scrambler Rifle.....So they are in need of a BUFF. Im going to leave my post as it is,since you are clearly more educated in the issue, i havn't used AR in decades.... But i insist that those changes should be done first,and a buff of weapons taht are not preforming as expected before even considering turning down the DPS of the AR.I feel that if a AR user gets the hang of the weapon even with all that i proposed,he deserves a High DPS. ANd i've been doing REALLY good with LR , specially Vs AR, if i am positioned correctly XD in short CQC with an AR is a 50/50 verses shotguns and smgs. due to the high dps it can drop scouts in less than a second (fully tanked scout suits in .8 seconds). so, if the shotgunner misses he is instantly dead to a mid-range weapon in close range. If you need ADV or proto SMGs to compete with a milita AR, its not your fault its the AR being too powerfully. when oyu see logi's in CQC with ARs and winning its a sign that the AR is too powerful. Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1031	Posted - 2013.09.12 03:59:00 - [168] - Quote Again thats the most i can defend a weapon that i dont use ...LOL Sorry AR users, your on your own XD GG BTW i'll say it here and i hope some LR user sees this: You said:''Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage. '' I respond'': The secret to a GOOD LR user is....Be good with the LR, be better with your side arm ;) ''
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 957	Posted - 2013.09.12 05:43:00 - [169] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Again thats the most i can defend a weapon that i dont use ...LOL Sorry AR users, your on your own XD GG BTW i'll say it here and i hope some LR user sees this: You said:''Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage. '' I respond'': The secret to a GOOD LR user is....Be good with the LR, be better with your side arm ;) '' Lolz. Your a lawyer defending a criminal charged with being OP. You put up the best defnse you could but, the evidence, eye witness testimony and scientific facts support the prosecutions case to well. The ARs sentence is death by nerf bat!! on the lazer point. Yeah, the lazer fills a necesary role working between the sniper and TAC/scrambler ranges. So, treating the lazer like a sniper in that you side arm is best for anything closer than 66m is the way to go. once ARs get nerfed lazers will feel a lot more comfortable. with the new maps including alot more CQC, lazers need the elbow room.
Mary Sedillo Mechanized Infantry Corps 306	Posted - 2013.09.12 07:36:00 - [170] - Quote Disagree, you panzy. Want to just MD to death?

Dante Kretschmer D3LTA ACADEMY Inver Brass 79	Posted - 2013.09.12 07:40:00 - [171] - Quote In your calculations you are assuming the AR guy lands all his hits during 3.4 seconds, and I think that is too much of a simplification. The time will be higher, either because as an AR you want to do burst shooting, or because you fail at aiming. Even with aim assist, 3.4 seconds to kill the heaviest guy in the gam with an AR is not an accurate time, it's the minimum time you need to kill him. Not to mention that usually heavys don't come alone and they have a gun as well.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 172	Posted - 2013.09.12 07:53:00 - [172] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ LEgendary Hero EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR FREAKN MOUTH FULL WITH TRUTH, i still think a DPS nerf is unecessary if the changes i proposed get done XD This is why: -WIth all the firing in bursts / more aiming / recoil / bullet dispersion, making the most of the AR will take a fair amount of skill. No Spray and pray player will even defeat a skilled AR user. -As it is, Shotguns and SMG DO out-damage AR's in CQ (I do it all the time with my ADV SMG or Proto) and if i loose i had been severly injured. -As it is, the AR still looses to Laser rifle/TAC AR at mid-long ranges,i get mosts of my kills thanks to AR users shooting at me and thinking i dont have to respond,then imma chargin mai lazor! -The problem is other weapons DONT excel when they are supposed to, say HMG or Scrambler Rifle.....So they are in need of a BUFF. Im going to leave my post as it is,since you are clearly more educated in the issue, i havn't used AR in decades.... But i insist that those changes should be done first,and a buff of weapons taht are not preforming as expected before even considering turning down the DPS of the AR.I feel that if a AR user gets the hang of the weapon even with all that i proposed,he deserves a High DPS. ANd i've been doing REALLY good with LR , specially Vs AR, if i am positioned correctly XD in short CQC with an AR is a 50/50 verses shotguns and smgs. due to the high dps it can drop scouts in less than a second (fully tanked scout suits in .8 seconds). so, if the shotgunner misses he is instantly dead to a mid-range weapon in close range. If you need ADV or proto SMGs to compete with a milita AR, its not your fault its the AR being too powerfully. when oyu see logi's in CQC with ARs and winning its a sign that the AR is too powerful. Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage. Hmm a Shotgun is more of a suprise weapon it should win when the opponent is caught off hand but it should loose in a direct firefight. Having 50/50 in a firefight seem fair to me.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 959	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:27:00 - [173] - Quote Mary Sedillo wrote: Disagree, you panzy. Want to just MD to death? i haven't the slightest idea what you disagree with, who is the pany and why your mentioning MD on an AR thread
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 960	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:56:00 - [174] - Quote Dante Kretschmer wrote: In your calculations you are assuming the AR guy lands all his hits during 3.4 seconds, and I think that is too much of a simplification. The time will be higher, either because as an AR you want to do burst shooting, or because you fail at aiming. Even with aim assist, 3.4 seconds to kill the heaviest guy in the gam with an AR is not an accurate time, it's the minimum time you need to kill him. Not to mention that usually heavys don't come alone and they have a gun as well. about the MATH remember those calculations compared a milita ARs dps which is 467 in its optimal range, to the time it takes to kill a PROTO heavy with max shield and armor plates which is 1591. remember too: with the improved hit detection 90%+ rounds are detected by the system the virtually non-existent recoil with 0SP in put in recoil reduction also make an important contribution the fact that dispersion is less than 1% further exacerbates the problem. the strong aim assist doesn't help either all these factors combine so, generally if the ar guy is ADS, most of the time 90%+ of that dps is applied to you. and since you don't really need more than at MAX 3 seconds of ADS on a single target, you don't really miss. think about this So, if with a milita AR you need to be on your target for 3.4 seconds for a proto heavy. imagine how much less time you need for a regular heavy that has 1100 ehp, with a GEK. Heavy with HMG vs medium frame with AR: a medium frames shields and armor recover faster than a heavies the AR out ranges the HMG and does its optimal much further a medium frame is much faster than a heavy, so disengaging and reengaging mitigate the heavies high ehp. AR user normally come in packs because eveyone uses one. consider the following: The HMG's higher dispersion, and lower range make it ineffectual verses ARs at longer rangers. At close range however, the medium frame can move backwards faster than the heavy can run forward futher increasing distance. since, the heavies sheidls and Armor repair at a slower rate and have a longer delay between recover "pica-boo"tactics using pot shots with the AR are effective at handling HMGs even in close range. since medium frames can disengage combat at anytime when their shields get low while fighting a heavy and recharge them quickly the heavy is always at a disadvantage. Finally, many suits can shield and armor tank to the point where they have just as much shield and armor as a heavy. If the person is shield tanking that directly affects the HMGs dps vs AR dps. think of your average heavy with 500 shields and 600armor vs a milita AR doing 467 dps. Now lets compare this to a medium frame with 500 shields and 200 armor (not very expensive): 500 / (467 1.1) = .97 seconds 600 / (467 .9) = 1.42 seconds total TTK = 2.39 seconds 500 / (660 * .65 .8) = 1.45 seconds 200 / (660 .65 * 1.2) = .4 seconds total TTK = 1.85 seconds [b] So, as you would assume based on the numbers If an AR user were to stand directly infront of my HMG without moving then yeah, a STD HMG verse a milita AR, standard HMG wins. however, note the difference in TTK is only .5 seconds. if the medium frame starts strafing which actually distorts the hit detection by taking advantage of frame rate issues for 1/2 a second alone the milita AR can kill a heavy. if the range or distance between them is greater than 20m AR will win. if their is any cover AR will win. AR= OP (the .65 is the dispersion factor which the game automatically calculates and subtracts based on range beyond 5m. their are no disperion projectiles, its just a number the game subtracts from the dps)
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 960	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:58:00 - [175] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: D legendary hero wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ LEgendary Hero EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR FREAKN MOUTH FULL WITH TRUTH, i still think a DPS nerf is unecessary if the changes i proposed get done XD This is why: -WIth all the firing in bursts / more aiming / recoil / bullet dispersion, making the most of the AR will take a fair amount of skill. No Spray and pray player will even defeat a skilled AR user. -As it is, Shotguns and SMG DO out-damage AR's in CQ (I do it all the time with my ADV SMG or Proto) and if i loose i had been severly injured. -As it is, the AR still looses to Laser rifle/TAC AR at mid-long ranges,i get mosts of my kills thanks to AR users shooting at me and thinking i dont have to respond,then imma chargin mai lazor! -The problem is other weapons DONT excel when they are supposed to, say HMG or Scrambler Rifle.....So they are in need of a BUFF. Im going to leave my post as it is,since you are clearly more educated in the issue, i havn't used AR in decades.... But i insist that those changes should be done first,and a buff of weapons taht are not preforming as expected before even considering turning down the DPS of the AR.I feel that if a AR user gets the hang of the weapon even with all that i proposed,he deserves a High DPS. ANd i've been doing REALLY good with LR , specially Vs AR, if i am positioned correctly XD in short CQC with an AR is a 50/50 verses shotguns and smgs. due to the high dps it can drop scouts in less than a second (fully tanked scout suits in .8 seconds). so, if the shotgunner misses he is instantly dead to a mid-range weapon in close range. If you need ADV or proto SMGs to compete with a milita AR, its not your fault its the AR being too powerfully. when oyu see logi's in CQC with ARs and winning its a sign that the AR is too powerful. Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage. Hmm a Shotgun is more of a suprise weapon it should win when the opponent is caught off hand but it should loose in a direct firefight. Having 50/50 in a firefight seem fair to me. A shotgun is a hunting weapon, but also a CQC weapon. and in a game where using an active scanner can instantly give away your shotgun scouts position being his only defence doesn't sound fair at all. but beyond that. the Ar is a medium range weapon... why should it win CQC encounters vs something soley desinged for CQC. that sounds like a b*llshit defense to me.
God Anpu TheImmortal The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 65	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:58:00 - [176] - Quote Honestly I am pleased with this but everyone knows the assault rifle trumphs all. It is a joke that an AR can hit further and do more damage than an HMG. The truth of the matter is that it always will and CCP is not going to change this because they fear that their fan base will die. But they talk balance. Lol ccp is a joke with these stats and how they decided about weapons and they want this to be a thinking shooter won't happen as long as AR are king. Bringing realism to this game would bring balance and start people to thinking and using tactics. Currently to get kills all u need is an assault rifle and M1 grenades or higher and your and instant killer. Why have other classes and weapons. Or better yet why should people that truly love and play this game have to deal with this crap or skill into an assault rifle to remain relevant. I thought CCP was keeping stats on weapons to know these things and prevent this.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 961	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:02:00 - [177] - Quote God Anpu TheImmortal wrote: Honestly I am pleased with this but everyone knows the assault rifle trumphs all. It is a joke that an AR can hit further and do more damage than an HMG. The truth of the matter is that it always will and CCP is not going to change this because they fear that their fan base will die. But they talk balance. Lol ccp is a joke with these stats and how they decided about weapons and they want this to be a thinking shooter won't happen as long as AR are king. Bringing realism to this game would bring balance and start people to thinking and using tactics. Currently to get kills all u need is an assault rifle and M1 grenades or higher and your and instant killer. Why have other classes and weapons. Or better yet why should people that truly love and play this game have to deal with this crap or skill into an assault rifle to remain relevant. I thought CCP was keeping stats on weapons to know these things and prevent this. the sad part is that CCP are losing their real fan base every month new players are driven away. and the worst part is that these AR whores will move on to the PS$ and get CoD MW 4, battle field 4, and planet side 2... so catering to a group that won't stay anyway makes no sense.
God Anpu TheImmortal The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 65	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:07:00 - [178] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Dante Kretschmer wrote: In your calculations you are assuming the AR guy lands all his hits during 3.4 seconds, and I think that is too much of a simplification. The time will be higher, either because as an AR you want to do burst shooting, or because you fail at aiming. Even with aim assist, 3.4 seconds to kill the heaviest guy in the gam with an AR is not an accurate time, it's the minimum time you need to kill him. Not to mention that usually heavys don't come alone and they have a gun as well. about the MATH remember those calculations compared a milita ARs dps which is 467 in its optimal range, to the time it takes to kill a PROTO heavy with max shield and armor plates which is 1591. remember too: with the improved hit detection 90%+ rounds are detected by the system the virtually non-existent recoil with 0SP in put in recoil reduction also make an important contribution the fact that dispersion is less than 1% further exacerbates the problem. the strong aim assist doesn't help either all these factors combine so, generally if the ar guy is ADS, most of the time 90%+ of that dps is applied to you. and since you don't really need more than at MAX 3 seconds of ADS on a single target, you don't really miss. think about this So, if with a milita AR you need to be on your target for 3.4 seconds for a proto heavy. imagine how much less time you need for a regular heavy that has 1100 ehp, with a GEK. Heavy with HMG vs medium frame with AR: a medium frames shields and armor recover faster than a heavies the AR out ranges the HMG and does its optimal much further a medium frame is much faster than a heavy, so disengaging and reengaging mitigate the heavies high ehp. AR user normally come in packs because eveyone uses one. consider the following: The HMG's higher dispersion, and lower range make it ineffectual verses ARs at longer rangers. At close range however, the medium frame can move backwards faster than the heavy can run forward futher increasing distance. since, the heavies sheidls and Armor repair at a slower rate and have a longer delay between recover "pica-boo"tactics using pot shots with the AR are effective at handling HMGs even in close range. since medium frames can disengage combat at anytime when their shields get low while fighting a heavy and recharge them quickly the heavy is always at a disadvantage. Finally, many suits can shield and armor tank to the point where they have just as much shield and armor as a heavy. If the person is shield tanking that directly affects the HMGs dps vs AR dps. think of your average heavy with 500 shields and 600armor vs a milita AR doing 467 dps. Now lets compare this to a medium frame with 500 shields and 200 armor (not very expensive): 500 / (467 1.1) = .97 seconds 600 / (467 .9) = 1.42 seconds total TTK = 2.39 seconds 500 / (660 * .65 .8) = 1.45 seconds 200 / (660 .65 * 1.2) = .4 seconds total TTK = 1.85 seconds [b] So, as you would assume based on the numbers If an AR user were to stand directly infront of my HMG without moving then yeah, a STD HMG verse a milita AR, standard HMG wins. however, note the difference in TTK is only .5 seconds. if the medium frame starts strafing which actually distorts the hit detection by taking advantage of frame rate issues for 1/2 a second alone the milita AR can kill a heavy. if the range or distance between them is greater than 20m AR will win. if their is any cover AR will win. AR= OP (the .65 is the dispersion factor which the game automatically calculates and subtracts based on range beyond 5m. their are no disperion projectiles, its just a number the game subtracts from the dps) Everything you stat here is true I play heavy and have invested millions in sp and countless hours to master this class and we are second class to every class as of now. It's a joke how the heavy always gets pushed to the side. Ohh the gave us armor buffs now we just have more hit points still move slower and get out gunned in all scenarios. Why is this? Every weapon and class should have strong and weak points . Heavies have all weak points. We only succeed at being the first to go down in combat now.
God Anpu TheImmortal The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 68	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:10:00 - [179] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: God Anpu TheImmortal wrote: Honestly I am pleased with this but everyone knows the assault rifle trumphs all. It is a joke that an AR can hit further and do more damage than an HMG. The truth of the matter is that it always will and CCP is not going to change this because they fear that their fan base will die. But they talk balance. Lol ccp is a joke with these stats and how they decided about weapons and they want this to be a thinking shooter won't happen as long as AR are king. Bringing realism to this game would bring balance and start people to thinking and using tactics. Currently to get kills all u need is an assault rifle and M1 grenades or higher and your and instant killer. Why have other classes and weapons. Or better yet why should people that truly love and play this game have to deal with this crap or skill into an assault rifle to remain relevant. I thought CCP was keeping stats on weapons to know these things and prevent this. the sad part is that CCP are losing their real fan base every month new players are driven away. and the worst part is that these AR whores will move on to the PS$ and get CoD MW 4, battle field 4, and planet side 2... so catering to a group that won't stay anyway makes no sense. Also after seeing a video CCP released just let me know they don't give a f uck about their fans or the game. It was some garbadge rap video look it up on YouTube.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 963	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:16:00 - [180] - Quote Don't forget both SCOUTS and HEAVIES get gimped by ARs. heavies I use a heavy as an example because its supposed to be able to tank. so for something that designed to tank getting put down in less than 2 seconds.. you gotta wonder if what was used is balanced. Scouts Scouts, always under any circumstances get insta-killed by ARs. the max ehp a scout can have is about 400. milita AR does 467 dps. so, the max tanked scout survives .85~9 seconds. your average scout has about 320 ehp mostly shields (Ar kills shields the fastest) so they die in .68 seconds. that's almost imperceptible to your average human. since movement speed was nerfed, and scouts movement speed was capped... hitting a scout is not hard. especially with the new hit detection and aim assist. which if your a scout you don't benefit from anyway because shotguns dnt work with the current hit detection and Aim assist don't affect shotguns or snipers the 2 main weapons scouts use. so all in all 1.4 is the death of scouts.



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