That's ******* sad. I knew it was bad, but this is just sad..........

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

[quote=D legendary hero][list]
'Has enough ammo to get 13 kills with a supply depot'. How do you come up with this statistic, exactly? HP totals vary wildly between suits.

'Has marginally less DPS than an HMG without any dispersion'.
It certainly has less dispersion, yes. But 'marginally' less dps? That's not accurate. A standard AR does 425 dps. A standard HMG does 600 dps. While the dispersion is certainly different, that isn't 'marginally' less, that's almost 50% less!

'No recoil'. Technically incorrect. It does have recoil - but it's not very significant. This is one of the major changes that I would prefer for the AR - it needs significant recoil.

'Benefits the most from auto-aim'. No, it doesn't. It benefits quite a lot, but have you used the laser rifle recently? I can track a sprinting target with it without touching the stick.

'Has the best CPU/PG for suits, allowing maximum tanking'. Eh. A number of weapons use very similar resources - the mass driver for instance. You can hardly say it's the 'best'.

'Does 110% damage to shields and 95% to armour giving the best effective damage dealt'. It's 110/90. Additionally, you can't really definitively say that one damage profile is better than another.

'Is undisputed out to 75m'.
No. Absolutely not. I have shotgunned ARs before, 'disputing' them well before 75m. I also beat AR users with a scrambler rifle well before that range.

'Renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy up to 88m'.
It certainly doesn't render my scrambler rifle obsolete. Do you mean to say lasers, which have their major damage dropoff at that point?

'Can take maximum advantage of headshots due to high dps and high accuracy'.
Scrambler rifle does it better.

'don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)'
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that the AR's spray and pray style can do well irrespective of how well the hit detection is working?

he actual difference is 29%. But due to hit detection issues with the HMG, its inferior damage to sheilding, higher damage fall of, and obscenely high dispersion (up to 35% disperision) the dps difference between ARs and HMGs become alot closer and on average, there is very little difference in damage output.

difference is AR does its dps out further and with greater accuracy.

by quickly pressing the trigger you can reduce the recoil counter. but this isn't really nessesary as recoil only sets in once you fire 48 bullets.
the HMG, scrambler rifle, MD, flaylock and forguns do not benefit from autoaim. in faact very few weapons benefit from auto aim. but ARs due to their nature and dps equal an i win button with autoaim.

the AR has one of the most balanced CPU/PG fittings for the dps, and advantages it holds. it can practically fit on any suit build.

tests have been done that confirm it does 95% to armor. from 5m - 75m the AR is basically unmatched. vs shotguns in CQB its a 50/50 chance that the AR loses, if the shotgunner misses he is insta-dead because the AR hipfire is better than smg hipfire (cross hairs not fire rate). so, a scout with a shotgun, if he misses an AR hip firing a milita AR can drop him in .8 seconds at the least.
scrambers did receive a mild buff from 1.4. but 467 to the face... its hard to beat that.
lazers are perfectly fine.

before you read anything else please note. AIM ASSIST IS NOT THE PROBLEM!

the real problem lies in the fact that HIT DETECTION ( a good thing, a very good thing) now makes it so that the full dps of the AR registers all the time. AR dps is too high. (hit dection is a good thing, the improved hit detection proves how OP ARs are).


the AR without the aid of teamates or grenades, can pretty much win a 1v1 gun fit verses any suit in the game in 3 seconds or less (often less) in and beyond its effective range. .
plus:

• ars never over heat
• have enough ammo to get 13 kills without need of supply depot
• have marginally less dps than an HMG without any dispersion
• no recoil
• benefits the most from auto aim
• has the best CPU/PG for suits. allowing maximum tanking
• does 110 to shields and 95 to armor giving the best effective damage dealt.
• is undisputed out to 75m
• renders scrambler rifles obsolete due to its accuracy upto 88m
• can take maximum advantage of headshots (due to high dps AND high accuracy)
• have one of the fastest reloads and reload cancels
• extremely good hip fire
• don't suffer from hit detection issues as bad due to the high damage pershot and dps, and low dispersion. in fact it benefits from hit detection the most. (hit detection itself is good, the AR is OP)

the maximum ehp a heavy in this game can haavy is 1591. a militia AR without damage mods, or proficiency does 467 (425 dps * the 1.1 multiplier CCP gave all weapons). (this is 12.5 shots per second. your clip has 48 bullets, you do 1795.2 hp in one clip. it takes you 3.8 seconds to unload a clip)

So, a militia ARs time to kill a proto heavy with max ehp, in its effective range is:
1591hp/467hp damage per second = 3.4 seconds.

your average heavy has around 1100 ehp. so, a militia ARs TTK would be:
1100/467 = 2.4 seconds

a milita heavy frame has 800 ehp. TTk from a miita AR would be:
800/467 = 1.7 seconds.


if you use 2 complex damage mods with a duvolle AR, and have proficiency your dps is 681 (my f*cking god its an HMG!). that is an equivilent of 49.5 damage pershot (as a side note the breach AR does 51 per shot. so your duvolle basically has the damage pershot of a breach with the rpm of a militia ar)
you can drop a heavy with 1591 ehp in 2.3 seconds .

your average heavy with 1100 ehp dies in 1.6 seconds .

H*ll a militia AR even out dps's the AFG everyone is complaining about. AFG does 1381 damage every 4 seconds of charge up time. in 4 seconds time a milita AR has done 1868.
[list]

467@1second, 934 @ 2 seconds, 1401 @ 3 seconds, 1868 @ 4 seconds = militia AR (militia Ar ends its clip in 3.8)

0@1 second, 0 @ 2 seconds, 0 @ 3 seconds, 1381 @ 4 seconds = Assault forge gun DU/A

further references:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=98633
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1214687#post1214687
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1208329#post1208329
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1264972#post1264972
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104295&find=unread
if you think this is a wall of text or didn't understand this just happened to you .

If TL;DR and your an AR noob that want s to comment everyone will do this

AR NEEDS ITS DPS NERFED TO 340 or less.

My Mass Driver still kills people just as quickly as an AR. I have not had any more deaths this build than any of the others, still not seeing a problem.

And no aim assist is not the problem, it really does nothing but make a red dot and give me some numbers i never se anyway unless im sniping.

I dont get how so many people cant understand what the aim assist does. It really does something. And the numbers have been there the entire time i've played (like 2 months, not since closed beta). they show your weapon's efficiency against that target. No idea what you thought they meant.

Oh and with regard to this topic i think ARs are fine, some other weapons just need some buffing. All nerfs to the mass driver.

Or how about we just get rid of the aim assist and then the AR will, once again, be nicely on par with other weapons.

Please note that CCP said that they are going to be rejiggering the range of the scrambler rifles in 1.5 which will make them have an advantage over the AR/TAR.

As someone who mains the scrambler rifle I can assure you that it certainly benefits from aim assist. As a part-time user of the HMG I can also assure you that it applies to that as well.
The MD doesn't particularly benefit from aim assist, no. It has the advantage of a 10m blast diameter though, so you hardly need it. I can't speak for the flaylock as I haven't used that lately. Forge guns are not an anti-infantry focused weapon. They certainly have the capability, but when doing that, much like the sniper rifle, you have to rely on aiming skills for high precision, high damage shots.[quote]
b]d legendary hero:[/b]
i would agree with you on the scambler but its on a list of weapons that CCP confirmed aren't affected by aim assit. that and i also use scamblers 1.4 has made them more useful.. but ARs are still OP compared these and other weapons.


The AR may have a relatively balanced fitting profile, but it isn't nearly the only weapon and a number have superior fitting options.
b]d legendary hero:[/b]
based on its power being able to slap one of the best guns on any suit is itself OP. imagine if scouts could use HMGs?
there is a reason for CPU/PG layouts. if the AR is to retain its current power and stats it needs way more CPU/PG to make it difficult to fit to suits with damage mods, or sheild and armor tanking.

[quote]
As someone who literally wrote the book on shields and armour and someone who has done extensive testing of damage profiles, I am 100% certain this is not the case.

good points but distorting wall

Confining that as an 1100 Hp heavy, I've died in under 2 seconds to AR users. Many a time they were behind me, I didn't even have time to spin around, even with the new turn rate buffs.