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D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 937	Posted - 2013.09.11 01:09:00 - [91] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead. Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game. my internet connection is slow right now... but i will respond to more of these comments tomorrow. but, upon reading this I must contend. Reducing its DPS will not render it useless. In fact it will excel at what its supposed to. The AR is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Reducing the DPS will force AR users to pick their battles. how so? a lower DPS means that an AR user in close range won't try to take on an HMG or shotgun, or SMG. a lower DPS means that at longer ranges an AR will not try to take on a scrambler or lazer. how will this effect AR game play for most players they will just try to find something else to use. for skilled players they will fight in a situation advantageous to the AR over the weapon they are facing. Note the following examples: the AR user upon seeing a scrambler being fired will either A) retreat if the distance is can't be closed fast enough or B) if inclose quarters close the distance in order to have the upperhand on the Scrambler. the AR user sees an HMG. the AR user will obviously not consider charging the HMG user due to the ARs lower dps and the medium frames limited ehp. therefore he will engage the heavy at a range outside the heavies range. this may put the ARs dps lower because the range is farther but he is playing to the heavies weakness. the heavy for his part must retreat or die. so, as for me I want a damage nerf. Quote: The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage. Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. On the case of the Gallente AR it would have the highest DPS but the lowest damage per shot, the least amount of hip fire dispersion but the highest amount of recoil, and the lowest range. <-- AR user only saying because apparently we aren't coherent enough to provide good feedback on the AR. your points are valid concerns however. If the AR gets reduced Range as opposed to a dps nerf, to perhaps that of the HMG with a 20% damage reduction that would suffice.remember reducing the range proportionally to other ARs still doesn't ensure that it won't make a weapon obsolete. The AR actually needs both a range and damage nerf but, not too much of a range nerf . I mean people nerfed the flaylocks radius (radius to a splash weapon is like range to a bullet hose weapon), and a damage nerf. conclusion the Ar should be no exception its range is too high and dps is too high. The AR should be a jack of all trades. [b] ITS designed to play to the weaknesses of other weapons. therefore it need not be strong, it only needs to be able to function well where other weapons don't. range nerf and dps nerf. (if dps nerf is big, then range nerf is small and vice versa. dnt break the gun, just nerf it)
Thurak1 Psygod9 159	Posted - 2013.09.11 02:22:00 - [92] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: Confining that as an 1100 Hp heavy, I've died in under 2 seconds to AR users. Many a time they were behind me, I didn't even have time to spin around, even with the new turn rate buffs. I really feel ya there.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 02:38:00 - [93] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: I think the real problem is that we are still missing weapons and suits in the game... All but Amar are missing Commando and Heavy suits and a few scout suits are missing to, there are no Minmatar or Caldary AR's and Gallante has no side arm, Minmatar has a HMG and Caldary has the forgegun, the rest of the heavy weapons are still missing, cant remeber it all right now but a lot of things are still missing in Dust 514... Normally in games all races/sides have there own version of the enemys stuff, in Dust we dont have that so far... I think its kind of funny that the Minmatar have a HMG that can only be used on a Amar heavy suit LOL... although your deductions are correct in that we do not have all weapons and suits, this is no excuse for the AR not to get nerfed. we didn't have all the weapons in the game when the lazer was nerfed. we didn't have all the weapons in the game when the flaylock was nerfed (most recent nerf) we didn't have all the weapons in the game when HMGs and heavy suits were simultaneously nerfed. we didn't have all the weapons in the game when the scrambler pistol was nerfed nor when the MD was nerfed nor when shotguns were nerfed nor when Tanks, LAVs and dropships were nerfed LET'S FACE THE FACTS! NOT HAVING A COMPLETE GAME DOES NOT EXCUSE A WEAPON BEING OP! rather this is an excuse. None of the above weapons were ever OP! none of the above weapons worked outside their intended range (without sharpe shooter, but again all weapons had sharpe shooter), or any of the advantages of ARs. The AR IS OP! its just that simple.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 02:41:00 - [94] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: ShinyJay wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead. Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game. The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage. Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. as long as it gets some kind of nerf. it has too much already with little drawbacks to it Read my finished edit, it would technically get a nerf but some buffs at the same time. I tried the same thing with the flaylock buffing it so it works as intended and nerfing aspects that made it work outside its parameters (although this was rare). didn't work the community raged and it was nerfed in every possible aspect.... the AR needs a nerf period. Why buff something that, unlike the flaylock, Actually IS OP?
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 02:50:00 - [95] - Quote common arguments PRO AR: 1. All weapons got the bonus 10% so that doesn't make the AR anymore OP than other weapons, nor its dps too high. Counter arguments: yet, All weapons in chromoseom could use the sharpe shooter skill to improve their range! This was deemed OP becasue weapons (most people complained about HMGs) could work outside their intended ranges. And even though ARs still had more range with sharp shooter combat was distorted by the high range profiles of guns that didn't need it. In like manner, ARs dps is too high and that bonus 10% although given to all weapons, makes the AR (like sharpe shooter for HMGs) do DPS outside its intended dps. Although the bonus 10% alone is not the problem it definately makes a bad problem worse. weapons operation was a lvl5 skill, why should militia ARs benefit from something that was a lvl 5 skill? the AR needs a dps nerf and the bonus 10% needs to be removed from ARs.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 03:17:00 - [96] - Quote PADDEHATPIGEN wrote: Hmm ok. ASCR can over heat, try to fire 2 clips in a row. AR does have kick and dispersion try to fire all 60 rounds in to a spot you aim at and you will find that it starts to kick like mule and move up and to the side. NO no one can take 4-5 shots from a charge sniper rifle. STOP talking about weapons you know nothing about at max lvl... i know that a duvolle assault rifle at lvl 5 proficiency and 2 damage mods does 700* dps. I know that the max ehp any heavy can have in this game is 1591. I know that 1591/700 = 2.27 seconds. I know that 2.3 seconds in real time feels like 2 seconds, because human beings don't count in milliseconds. I know that a heavy with 1100 ehp, dies in 1.5 seconds. which is a near instant kill on a heavy.. (you can feel the .5 seconds though that is perceptible). I know a scout with 300+ ehp dies in .4 seconds. which is an INSTANT-KILL. (its hard to perceive .4 seconds, making it an instant kill) I know that a STD HMG without proficiency or damage mods does 660. I know that with proficiency and damage mods a STD HMG, does more than a duvolle with proficienc and damage mods i know that the above statement does not justify having an assault rifle have the DPS of an HMG, with better CPU/PG, no suit restrictions, better range, reload, and shield vs armor property. *rounded up from 690.582
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps Dark Taboo 12	Posted - 2013.09.11 03:30:00 - [97] - Quote All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 03:42:00 - [98] - Quote General12912 wrote: All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have. 1. wrong plenty of people complained After uprising. the numbers have steadily been increasing. In fact if you cared to click on any of the links I have posted there you will see that way before this update people were complaining about ARs being to powerful. the math has not change. 2. the only thing you are correct are the 2 emboldened sentences. If you had read the OP (which I know you did not) you wil see that the first 2 sentences pertain exactly to what you refer to here. The full dps of the AR although still insanely high was never truely seen due to hit detection, but it never suffered has hard from hit detection as other guns did anyway. now that hit detection is improved the full potential of the ARs dps make it the ultimate killing machine. (for other reason see the OP) 3. the second sentence in bold is important to note. At the beginning and in chromosome more people gravitated toward using different weapons, and what ever else was available. but after the nerfs of chromosome the amount of people using ARs has nearly tripled. this is impart due to the fact that many people specced into the TAC once they found it was OP. after it was nerfed they still had SP in assault rifles and went to using that, because although not better than the TAC was still better than most other guns. now if you read your kill feed you will find that upto 85% of the deaths on that kill feed are a direct result of ARs (gek, milita, toxin, recruiter, std, duvolle). the remaining15% is split between everything else and kills indirectly related to ARs (ie an ar weakens someone and a MD hits the weakened enemy). THE AR = OP. period. this is a fact and it must be nerfed. TL;DR. this just happened to your argument
ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 03:43:00 - [99] - Quote General12912 wrote: All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have. the same people that always used the AR either don't use other guns and are oblivious to how other guns work and their strong and weak points, or know how good the AR is compared to other weapons and use it to stay competitive. the two improvements show us how well each gun is and the true power of each gun that wasn't here in 1.3. using that argument to help you doesn't show any drawbacks to the AR and shows how powerful the AR really is. I used my own personal experience with weak skills into the AR to show it's effectiveness with small damage buffs (in my case, 5% damage increase on the STD AR). others are using maxed out skills to theory test damages and such to prove it's effectiveness
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 03:45:00 - [100] - Quote ShinyJay wrote: General12912 wrote: All you use for sources are player stated arguments. Sad. You realize most people have used the AR before this update. I've always used the AR. Many others have too. There were no complaints before this update either. Leaving us to conclude that it must be something in the new update that effects weapon performance. The only two things in this update that did such a thing was the improved hit thing and the auto aim. Most people gravitate towards the assault rifle period. They always have. the same people that always used the AR either don't use other guns and are oblivious to how other guns work and their strong and weak points, or know how good the AR is compared to other weapons and use it to stay competitive. the two improvements show us how well each gun is and the true power of each gun that wasn't here in 1.3. using that argument to help you doesn't show any drawbacks to the AR and shows how powerful the AR really is. I used my own personal experience with weak skills into the AR to show it's effectiveness with small damage buffs (in my case, 5% damage increase on the STD AR). others are using maxed out skills to theory test damages and such to prove it's effectiveness TBH my dren ARs are all i ever really need now...lol but i run GEKs too. yesterday i went 13/0 with GEKS and a milita suit.

ShinyJay Destruction Reapers The Superpowers 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 04:09:00 - [101] - Quote i just use the STD AR in my heavy suit. to me, it's a game of numbers. the high eHP of the heavy and plates plus the DPS of the AR is all i need. i would love to use my proto sniper rifle, but i would have to really learn the maps and figure out if it's safe to use in the given map
Gesa Russian WE ARE LEGENDS 2	Posted - 2013.09.11 05:20:00 - [102] - Quote The most of peoples in dust useing ar . Ccp is stupid for also not nerfed this weapon . One squad fully fitted with ar and anti vehicle grenades are derstroying evrione and everything . The first guy in leadboards are useing ar . Cars are nerfed but only this can stop him .
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 07:22:00 - [103] - Quote In addition to nerfing the ARs DPS, I also, propose a 25% increase in the range of the following guns: HMGs shotguns scramblers burst AR and breach these weapons have less or equal range than the AR. -in the case of the HMG, it should have greater range but the same inaccuracy helping aid its suppresion capabilities. -In the case of the shotguns, the shotgun is the only primary weapon without splash damage designed for close range, so it should have a longer range to help it compete better in CQB with SMG and ARs. -scrambers are long range single fire rifles and deserve the extra range -the burst and breach ars have equal or less range than the full auto and have less dps. the burst needs more range and the breach needs more range than the AR but less than the burst. The std, breach, TAC and burst ARs should all have the Same DPS, but very in range, fire rate and damage pershot
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 07:33:00 - [104] - Quote therefore, my suggestion is as follows std AR = 340 dps. (optimal range 30m) highest fire rate among ARs lowest range low damage per shot high recoil high dispersion full auto hip fire cross hair small breach AR = 340 dps (its current dps) (optimal range 40) lower fire rate than std AR higher range than std high damage per shot low recoil less dispersion than std AR full auto hip fire cross hair medium burst AR (make a std version) = 340 dps (optimal range 50) same fire rate as breach higher range than breach high damage per burst less dispersion than breach burst fire hip fire cross hair large TAC AR (make std version) = 340 dps (optimal range 65) lowest fire rate among ARs higher range than burst highest damage per shot least dispersion single fire hip fire cross hair really large
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 163	Posted - 2013.09.11 07:34:00 - [105] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead. Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game. my internet connection is slow right now... but i will respond to more of these comments tomorrow. but, upon reading this I must contend. Reducing its DPS will not render it useless. In fact it will excel at what its supposed to. The AR is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Reducing the DPS will force AR users to pick their battles. how so? a lower DPS means that an AR user in close range won't try to take on an HMG or shotgun, or SMG. a lower DPS means that at longer ranges an AR will not try to take on a scrambler or lazer. how will this effect AR game play for most players they will just try to find something else to use. for skilled players they will fight in a situation advantageous to the AR over the weapon they are facing. Note the following examples: the AR user upon seeing a scrambler being fired will either A) retreat if the distance is can't be closed fast enough or B) if inclose quarters close the distance in order to have the upperhand on the Scrambler. the AR user sees an HMG. the AR user will obviously not consider charging the HMG user due to the ARs lower dps and the medium frames limited ehp. therefore he will engage the heavy at a range outside the heavies range. this may put the ARs dps lower because the range is farther but he is playing to the heavies weakness. the heavy for his part must retreat or die. so, as for me I want a damage nerf. Quote: The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage. Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. On the case of the Gallente AR it would have the highest DPS but the lowest damage per shot, the least amount of hip fire dispersion but the highest amount of recoil, and the lowest range. <-- AR user only saying because apparently we aren't coherent enough to provide good feedback on the AR. your points are valid concerns however. If the AR gets reduced Range as opposed to a dps nerf, to perhaps that of the HMG with a 20% damage reduction that would suffice.remember reducing the range proportionally to other ARs still doesn't ensure that it won't make a weapon obsolete. The AR actually needs both a range and damage nerf but, not too much of a range nerf . I mean people nerfed the flaylocks radius (radius to a splash weapon is like range to a bullet hose weapon), and a damage nerf. conclusion the Ar should be no exception its range is too high and dps is too high. The AR should be a jack of all trades. [b] ITS designed to play to the weaknesses of other weapons. therefore it need not be strong, it only needs to be able to function well where other weapons don't. range nerf and dps nerf. (if dps nerf is big, then range nerf is small and vice versa. dnt break the gun, just nerf it) The AR needs a range nerf for sure but not a dps nerf if at all it needs a dps buff alongside with the range nerf. Remember the AR is supposed to be HIGH DPS and LOW Range. As with all gallente weaponry. Just on a sidenote the AsCR has nearly the same DPS and the SR can out dps any light anti infantry weapon I know. The problem I see is simple CCP seems to hesitate to give weapons their niche the AsCR and the AR are nearly identical in their performance: similar Range similar dps thats strange.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 938	Posted - 2013.09.11 07:50:00 - [106] - Quote Korvin Lomont the dps on the AScr is actually slightly higher than a milita AR but drastically lower than a GEK. the Ascr is a lvl4 weapon, and it did not receive the 10% buff that weapons after uprising got. what is more the damage fall off over range makes it have actually less range than the AR. the Ascr has greater recoil than a gallente AR it does 120% to shields and 80% to armor. combining this with its horrific damage fall off and recoil make it horrible verses hybrid tankers and armor tankers. most caldari hybrid tank, heavies have tons of armor, galente are armor tankers, and amarr are hybrid. the Ascr works well on minmintar strange hit detection glitch causes rounds not to count as hits when strafing side to side. these weapons are by no means identifcal nor do they have the same dps due to these factrs
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 163	Posted - 2013.09.11 08:16:00 - [107] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Korvin Lomont the dps on the AScr is actually slightly higher than a milita AR but drastically lower than a GEK. the Ascr is a lvl4 weapon, and it did not receive the 10% buff that weapons after uprising got. what is more the damage fall off over range makes it have actually less range than the AR. the Ascr has greater recoil than a gallente AR it does 120% to shields and 80% to armor. combining this with its horrific damage fall off and recoil make it horrible verses hybrid tankers and armor tankers. most caldari hybrid tank, heavies have tons of armor, galente are armor tankers, and amarr are hybrid. the Ascr works well on minmintar strange hit detection glitch causes rounds not to count as hits when strafing side to side. these weapons are by no means identifcal nor do they have the same dps due to these factrs GEK 38 DPS: 446 (without modification) CRS-9 AsCRDPS: 444 (without modification) If my numbers are correct all in all pretty close to me. I know the AsCR is a level 4 Weapon and thats kinda stupid but this isbecause the AsCR should only mimic the AR in the same way the Tac AR ( a Level 4 Weapon as well) should only mimic the SCR. Regarding the damage falloff reagarding the charts, damage falloff seems fine between the two (apart from the AR having too much range). The Shield Armor ratio is working as intendend Imho and armor get melted by AsCR as well just slightly slower. The better accuracy the AR has comes mainly from skills by the time you can equip the GEK you already have a 15% reduction to recoil at least and depending on your sharpshooter skill up to 25% reduction in dispersion thats a huge boost. Hit detection is not the fault of the weapon its the fault of the game.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1153	Posted - 2013.09.11 08:34:00 - [108] - Quote Ok 'D' your scaring me now... SMG, are killing at longer ranges now (double smg fits are becoming more and more common) and absolutely pwning at closer ranges. Im seeing HMG heavies coming out last in straight engagements... SR's of all descriptions are doing really well with this build. In many cases out performing their AR brothers. To the point that many die hard AR users i know have swapped out. LR are better, but are in direct competition with the SR and AR. They can still pull ahead in a few area but there isnt much of a niche for them atm Shotguns are doing exactly what they say on the box. With a Scout buff (they dont die if you sneeze to hard) this will become the cause of many sweet tears. HMG's are getting out performed. They are workable, but there are other weapons that do their job better, in too many areas. AR's... i would say too much range... but until the other racial variants are out and a full balance on the group is done i cant say what should be done... They are doing what they should, but too well. Stepping on the toes of many other systems.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps Dark Taboo 13	Posted - 2013.09.11 09:59:00 - [109] - Quote According to the description, the assault rifle is the most advanced weapon of its kind. This means it is, in fact not a jack of all trades, but a master of all trades. This guy's counter to that is that it isn't because it has a medium range. All I have to say is that it doesn't have to have the range of a sniper rifle to have a pretty good range. If CCP happens to Nerf this gun, I hope it can still live up to its description, the most advanced weapon of its class.
2-Ton Twenty-One Ancient Exiles 959	Posted - 2013.09.11 10:15:00 - [110] - Quote +1 for a total weapon rebalance across the board.

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2013.09.11 10:32:00 - [111] - Quote 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: +1 for a total weapon rebalance across the board. I agree the CCP should do the same for handheld weapons and dropsuits what they plan for vehicles a complete rework to ged rid of the mess we have right now.
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps Dark Taboo 14	Posted - 2013.09.11 10:40:00 - [112] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: 2-Ton Twenty-One wrote: +1 for a total weapon rebalance across the board. I agree the CCP should do the same for handheld weapons and dropsuits what they plan for vehicles a complete rework to ged rid of the mess we have right now. I would much rather that happen than CCP just nerfing one single weapon.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 411	Posted - 2013.09.11 11:25:00 - [113] - Quote I just feel like saying.. If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )? Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though.. And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/ So there's that..
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 165	Posted - 2013.09.11 11:41:00 - [114] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: I just feel like saying.. If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )? Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though.. And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/ So there's that.. The only way a HMG can out dps an AR is because of dispersion, the HMG has right off quite a noticeable higher DPS. So high Dispersion and High Rof makes it good in cqc in theorie as dispersion won't hinder your shot from hitting your target.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 395	Posted - 2013.09.11 11:58:00 - [115] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: D legendary hero wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead. Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game. my internet connection is slow right now... but i will respond to more of these comments tomorrow. but, upon reading this I must contend. Reducing its DPS will not render it useless. In fact it will excel at what its supposed to. The AR is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Reducing the DPS will force AR users to pick their battles. how so? a lower DPS means that an AR user in close range won't try to take on an HMG or shotgun, or SMG. a lower DPS means that at longer ranges an AR will not try to take on a scrambler or lazer. how will this effect AR game play for most players they will just try to find something else to use. for skilled players they will fight in a situation advantageous to the AR over the weapon they are facing. Note the following examples: the AR user upon seeing a scrambler being fired will either A) retreat if the distance is can't be closed fast enough or B) if inclose quarters close the distance in order to have the upperhand on the Scrambler. the AR user sees an HMG. the AR user will obviously not consider charging the HMG user due to the ARs lower dps and the medium frames limited ehp. therefore he will engage the heavy at a range outside the heavies range. this may put the ARs dps lower because the range is farther but he is playing to the heavies weakness. the heavy for his part must retreat or die. so, as for me I want a damage nerf. Quote: The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage. Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. On the case of the Gallente AR it would have the highest DPS but the lowest damage per shot, the least amount of hip fire dispersion but the highest amount of recoil, and the lowest range. <-- AR user only saying because apparently we aren't coherent enough to provide good feedback on the AR. your points are valid concerns however. If the AR gets reduced Range as opposed to a dps nerf, to perhaps that of the HMG with a 20% damage reduction that would suffice.remember reducing the range proportionally to other ARs still doesn't ensure that it won't make a weapon obsolete. The AR actually needs both a range and damage nerf but, not too much of a range nerf . I mean people nerfed the flaylocks radius (radius to a splash weapon is like range to a bullet hose weapon), and a damage nerf. conclusion the Ar should be no exception its range is too high and dps is too high. The AR should be a jack of all trades. [b] ITS designed to play to the weaknesses of other weapons. therefore it need not be strong, it only needs to be able to function well where other weapons don't. range nerf and dps nerf. (if dps nerf is big, then range nerf is small and vice versa. dnt break the gun, just nerf it) The AR needs a range nerf for sure but not a dps nerf if at all it needs a dps buff alongside with the range nerf. Remember the AR is supposed to be HIGH DPS and LOW Range. As with all gallente weaponry. Just on a sidenote the AsCR has nearly the same DPS and the SR can out dps any light anti infantry weapon I know. The problem I see is simple CCP seems to hesitate to give weapons their niche the AsCR and the AR are nearly identical in their performance: similar Range similar dps thats strange. Because at the moment, we only have 7 of the 16 rifles, we are meant to get, however weapons have been confirmed for .5 and when they are released, then we will see all rifles jas their main speciality!! Just be patient stick it out, im sure they know what they are doing!!
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 395	Posted - 2013.09.11 12:03:00 - [116] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: I just feel like saying.. If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )? Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though.. And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/ So there's that.. The only way a HMG can out dps an AR is because of dispersion, the HMG has right off quite a noticeable higher DPS. So high Dispersion and High Rof makes it good in cqc in theorie as dispersion won't hinder your shot from hitting your target. If the hmg is a minmatar weapon, then its actully long range suppresion, and short range breaching, liken the mass driver, it's dispersion is high because suppresing an enemy shouldn't mean butchering him with a hose of gunfire, it needs a range boost to about 25m and 10% more dispersion!!
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 944	Posted - 2013.09.11 13:30:00 - [117] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Ok 'D' your scaring me now... SMG, are killing at longer ranges now (double smg fits are becoming more and more common) and absolutely pwning at closer ranges. Im seeing HMG heavies coming out last in straight engagements... SMG and HMG ranges did not change, hit detection just improved. and remember the optimal, effective and max range system was put into effect in 1.3 Quote: SR's of all descriptions are doing really well with this build. In many cases out performing their AR brothers. To the point that many die hard AR users i know have swapped out. LR are better, but are in direct competition with the SR and AR. They can still pull ahead in a few area but there isnt much of a niche for them atm Scramblers are working as intended. They overheat, and still have a horrible damage fall off. Many people I know that use scramblers switch back to ARs either when "playing for real" OR "because the Ar is better". in their own words. The LR is working as intended. the reason it doesn't have its niche is because ARs have too much range, so they can close the 10m gap between the Lazer starts getting good and the ARs effective range fast. Quote: Shotguns are doing exactly what they say on the box. With a Scout buff (they dont die if you sneeze to hard) this will become the cause of many sweet tears. i hope your right about that, no one likes getting shotgunned but no one likes getting killed to the same thing over and over in every possible situation. Quote: HMG's are getting out performed. They are workable, but there are other weapons that do their job better, in too many areas. sheds single tear Quote: AR's... i would say too much range... but until the other racial variants are out and a full balance on the group is done i cant say what should be done... They are doing what they should, but too well. Stepping on the toes of many other systems. Although this is true, as I mentioned before, the lack of other guns and the complete system was not grounds for defense against nerfing: flaylocks, MD HMG scr pistol Lazer shotguns Tanks etc If what you are saying by "until the other racial variants are out and a full balance on the group is done i cant say what should be done..." All the guns that were nerfed before then should be buffed back to their original strength (the HMG just needs its range back) until all guns in the game are released. (except the TAC because everyone even AR users complained about that) But, as i mentioned before whenever AR users say "AR = balanced, everything else needs buff", any suggestions for a buff are instantly shot down by AR users. so, they effectively change subject then neutralize any progress. how about this: we nerf ARs, then when other weapons come out we rebalance all guns? nerf the dps, nerf the range on the AR.
TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 24	Posted - 2013.09.11 13:35:00 - [118] - Quote AR clip size needs to be halved, simple fix the thing can still hit near 900hp in a clip with half the capacity!!!
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 944	Posted - 2013.09.11 13:40:00 - [119] - Quote General12912 wrote: According to the description, the assault rifle is the most advanced weapon of its kind. This means it is, in fact not a jack of all trades, but a master of all trades. This guy's counter to that is that it isn't because it has a medium range. All I have to say is that it doesn't have to have the range of a sniper rifle to have a pretty good range. If CCP happens to Nerf this gun, I hope it can still live up to its description, the most advanced weapon of its class. descriptions are misleading... and dnt justify a gun being OP or prevent it from being nerfed. heavys in the description of a heavy it says that its a suit designed to "withstand concentrated small arms fire and explosives". So my heavy suit should be impervious to ARs and grenades... only heavy guns should damage my heavy suit. well, we know thats BS cuz, 1 militia AR can kill a heavy in 3 seconds... hipfire is not really concentrated fire either. flaylocks flaylocks are supposed to be anti-infantry and anti-vehicle rockets. they did what they were designed to before the nerf. again, the discription did not stop it from being nerfed. Ascr you might not have even thought of this one. in the discription it says it fires light. why does it have so much recoil then? the last time i turned on a flashlight my hand didn't go flying back from recoil. the gallente AR has no recoil, but a weapon that fires light does? Do I even need to speak on tanks? Dropships? HMGs the descritpion says its is the ultimate killing machine, nicknamed "death machine" so according to the description my HMG should OHK any dropsuit. the burst is supposed to drill holes through what ever it hits, so i should be able to kill you through walls... your logic is flawed. because not only do the mentioed weapons above not do what the description says in game, it would be OP if they did. so, there is no excuse nerf the AR
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 944	Posted - 2013.09.11 13:43:00 - [120] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: I just feel like saying.. If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )? Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though.. And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/ So there's that.. The only way a HMG can out dps an AR is because of dispersion, the HMG has right off quite a noticeable higher DPS. So high Dispersion and High Rof makes it good in cqc in theorie as dispersion won't hinder your shot from hitting your target. If the hmg is a minmatar weapon, then its actully long range suppresion, and short range breaching, liken the mass driver, it's dispersion is high because suppresing an enemy shouldn't mean butchering him with a hose of gunfire, it needs a range boost to about 25m and 10% more dispersion!! anymore disperion and the HMG will be firning bullets leaving the barrel at 90 degrees... the HMG needs range



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