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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
161
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Posted - 2013.09.10 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:
When has the AR ever been nerfed?
not, TAC i mean full auto. the slight adjustments in damage always kept the AR on top. you sinking your own ship.
i mean bro do i really need to list all the guns AR noobs have gotten nerfed?....lol
It was nerfed in chromosome when CCP addes more recoil and dispersion, it took roughly two or three weeks until the majority adjusted to the new recoil. For that time nearly nobody was hitting a tank with that thing ^^.
Another nerf came ith uprising with the removal of the chromosome sharpshooter skill and the splitting of the chromosome AR operation skill. It takes now more than twice the SP to get your AR where it excels compared to chromosome.
D legendary hero wrote:
Ascr doesnt have the range or punch of a gallente AR, and due to the higher CPU/PG requirements of scrmblers i doubt they would have the same ehp ever.
AScr has (slightly) more range and a smoother damage falloff with nearly the same dps than the AR
D legendary hero wrote:
scramblers have more recoil, and less range than ARs.
The problem is the AR gets a huge accuracy boost in contrast to the AsCR unskilled both weapons have similar Recoil/Dispersion with a slight advantage for the AsCR (not very much)
Well I do not say the AR is fine it is not. The current AR works way out of its intended role once that gets fixed (hopefully with 1.5) we will see how things develop...
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
163
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Posted - 2013.09.11 07:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:The AR doesnt need a damage nerf it needs a range nerf, the AR is supposed to have the HIGH DPS - LOW RANGE so if an AR user can close ground on you, you should consider yourself dead.
Lowering its DPS to 350 means that its damage would have to be increased while its ROF is decreased, or increase the ROF while nerfing the damage, if none of these are done every other weapon would need to have its DPS lowered or the AR would just become the most UP gun in the game.
my internet connection is slow right now... but i will respond to more of these comments tomorrow. but, upon reading this I must contend. Reducing its DPS will not render it useless. In fact it will excel at what its supposed to.The AR is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Reducing the DPS will force AR users to pick their battles. how so?
a lower DPS means that an AR user in close range won't try to take on an HMG or shotgun, or SMG.
a lower DPS means that at longer ranges an AR will not try to take on a scrambler or lazer.
how will this effect AR game playfor most players they will just try to find something else to use. for skilled players they will fight in a situation advantageous to the AR over the weapon they are facing. Note the following examples:
- the AR user upon seeing a scrambler being fired will either A) retreat if the distance is can't be closed fast enough or B) if inclose quarters close the distance in order to have the upperhand on the Scrambler.
- the AR user sees an HMG. the AR user will obviously not consider charging the HMG user due to the ARs lower dps and the medium frames limited ehp. therefore he will engage the heavy at a range outside the heavies range. this may put the ARs dps lower because the range is farther but he is playing to the heavies weakness.
the heavy for his part must retreat or die.
so, as for me I want a damage nerf. Quote:
The AR should work similar to how the Blaster tanks and Rail tanks work, at long rangers the Rail tank will obliterate a Blaster tank due to how its range exceeds the range of the Blaster, but at close ranges the Rail tank has no way of competing with the Blaster tank in damage.
Technically for all this to work, it would mean the AUTO ARs would need their range nerfed, the Breach ARs keep their current range and the TAC ARs have their range slightly higher than the breach. At the same time hip fire dispersion would increase with the range, while recoil would decrease with longer range. After this every other rifle weapon, would have a low DPS, high damage per shot profile. For example the Caldari rail rifle, the longest range assault rifle, would have the lowest DPS but the highest damage per shot, the most hip fire dispersion but the least amount of recoil and of course the longest range. On the case of the Gallente AR it would have the highest DPS but the lowest damage per shot, the least amount of hip fire dispersion but the highest amount of recoil, and the lowest range.
<-- AR user only saying because apparently we aren't coherent enough to provide good feedback on the AR.
your points are valid concerns however. If the AR gets reduced Range as opposed to a dps nerf, to perhaps that of the HMG with a 20% damage reduction that would suffice.remember reducing the range proportionally to other ARs still doesn't ensure that it won't make a weapon obsolete. The AR actually needs both a range and damage nerf but, not too much of a range nerf . I mean people nerfed the flaylocks radius (radius to a splash weapon is like range to a bullet hose weapon), and a damage nerf.
conclusionthe Ar should be no exception its range is too high and dps is too high. The AR should be a jack of all trades. [b] ITS designed to play to the weaknesses of other weapons. therefore it need not be strong, it only needs to be able to function well where other weapons don't. range nerf and dps nerf. (if dps nerf is big, then range nerf is small and vice versa. dnt break the gun, just nerf it)
The AR needs a range nerf for sure but not a dps nerf if at all it needs a dps buff alongside with the range nerf. Remember the AR is supposed to be HIGH DPS and LOW Range. As with all gallente weaponry.
Just on a sidenote the AsCR has nearly the same DPS and the SR can out dps any light anti infantry weapon I know.
The problem I see is simple CCP seems to hesitate to give weapons their niche the AsCR and the AR are nearly identical in their performance: similar Range similar dps thats strange.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
163
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Posted - 2013.09.11 08:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:Korvin Lomont
- the dps on the AScr is actually slightly higher than a milita AR but drastically lower than a GEK. the Ascr is a lvl4 weapon, and it did not receive the 10% buff that weapons after uprising got.
- what is more the damage fall off over range makes it have actually less range than the AR.
- the Ascr has greater recoil than a gallente AR
- it does 120% to shields and 80% to armor. combining this with its horrific damage fall off and recoil make it horrible verses hybrid tankers and armor tankers.
- most caldari hybrid tank, heavies have tons of armor, galente are armor tankers, and amarr are hybrid. the Ascr works well on minmintar
- strange hit detection glitch causes rounds not to count as hits when strafing side to side.
these weapons are by no means identifcal nor do they have the same dps due to these factrs
GEK 38 DPS: 446 (without modification)
CRS-9 AsCRDPS: 444 (without modification)
If my numbers are correct all in all pretty close to me. I know the AsCR is a level 4 Weapon and thats kinda stupid but this isbecause the AsCR should only mimic the AR in the same way the Tac AR ( a Level 4 Weapon as well) should only mimic the SCR.
Regarding the damage falloff reagarding the charts, damage falloff seems fine between the two (apart from the AR having too much range).
The Shield Armor ratio is working as intendend Imho and armor get melted by AsCR as well just slightly slower.
The better accuracy the AR has comes mainly from skills by the time you can equip the GEK you already have a 15% reduction to recoil at least and depending on your sharpshooter skill up to 25% reduction in dispersion thats a huge boost.
Hit detection is not the fault of the weapon its the fault of the game.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
165
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Posted - 2013.09.11 10:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:+1 for a total weapon rebalance across the board.
I agree the CCP should do the same for handheld weapons and dropsuits what they plan for vehicles a complete rework to ged rid of the mess we have right now. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
165
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 11:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:I just feel like saying..
If HMG's are supposed to be low-range, high CQC damage.. Then why has CCP not actually given them the damage to truly be the king of CQC automatic weapons(we all know Shottie is the real king of CQC :P )?
Right now, AR's out DPS HMG's, or are on par at the lowest. Not sure if that's speaking more about the damage output of a HMG or the AR though..
And ofc, AR's apply their damage with no dispersion, virtually no recoil, and at 2x the range of a HMG :/
So there's that..
The only way a HMG can out dps an AR is because of dispersion, the HMG has right off quite a noticeable higher DPS. So high Dispersion and High Rof makes it good in cqc in theorie as dispersion won't hinder your shot from hitting your target. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
172
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 07:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:KING CHECKMATE wrote:@ LEgendary Hero
EVEN IF YOU HAVE YOUR FREAKN MOUTH FULL WITH TRUTH, i still think a DPS nerf is unecessary if the changes i proposed get done XD
This is why:
-WIth all the firing in bursts / more aiming / recoil / bullet dispersion, making the most of the AR will take a fair amount of skill. No Spray and pray player will even defeat a skilled AR user.
-As it is, Shotguns and SMG DO out-damage AR's in CQ (I do it all the time with my ADV SMG or Proto) and if i loose i had been severly injured.
-As it is, the AR still looses to Laser rifle/TAC AR at mid-long ranges,i get mosts of my kills thanks to AR users shooting at me and thinking i dont have to respond,then imma chargin mai lazor!
-The problem is other weapons DONT excel when they are supposed to, say HMG or Scrambler Rifle.....So they are in need of a BUFF.
Im going to leave my post as it is,since you are clearly more educated in the issue, i havn't used AR in decades....
But i insist that those changes should be done first,and a buff of weapons taht are not preforming as expected before even considering turning down the DPS of the AR.I feel that if a AR user gets the hang of the weapon even with all that i proposed,he deserves a High DPS.
ANd i've been doing REALLY good with LR , specially Vs AR, if i am positioned correctly XD in short CQC with an AR is a 50/50 verses shotguns and smgs. due to the high dps it can drop scouts in less than a second (fully tanked scout suits in .8 seconds). so, if the shotgunner misses he is instantly dead to a mid-range weapon in close range. If you need ADV or proto SMGs to compete with a milita AR, its not your fault its the AR being too powerfully. when oyu see logi's in CQC with ARs and winning its a sign that the AR is too powerful. Lazers work as intended, but are still displaced because the ARs effective range over laps, the optimal of the LAzer. this means that the AR can close the distance and still do significant damage.
Hmm a Shotgun is more of a suprise weapon it should win when the opponent is caught off hand but it should loose in a direct firefight. Having 50/50 in a firefight seem fair to me.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
199
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Posted - 2013.09.25 08:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:I whole heartedly Agree. OR we can reduce of the price of the UP weapons so that I can being using proto versions of UP weaponry. because TBH
- PROTO HMG is where the STD should be
- PROTO flaylocks are where the STD should be
- PROTO shoguns are where the ADV should be
- PROTO plasma cannons are where the STD should be
- PROTO flux grenades are where the STD should be. (i mean really who uses proto flux?)
- PROTO MD are where the ADV should be...
basically, the AR from STD level is already on par with many proto weapons, at ADV it surpasses these weapons... AR noobs always talk about niche. Why does the AR excel in these weapons niches? Why is it that the AR can functinon outside its niche? the GAR's niche is high rate of fire, low damage, low range... and yet it excels at long range combat with high damage per shot. its better than the burst, breach and TAC combined. the TAC AR is better than the Scambler considering that with a scrambler you can only fire 15 shots before an overheat...
You are right that the AR operates outside its designed role of a high DPS weapon with low Range. But I guess this will change once the other Assault Rifles will be included. Right now the AR is balanced againt the AsCR (or the other way round) and both weapons operate nearly identical (wich is stupid).
BTW I think the GAR will should be more a medium ROF and Medium to High Damage weapon as I beleive the low Damage High Rof part will be filled by the minmatar weapons.
Regarding your list I would only agree to the Shotgun and the Plasma Cannon these weapons are way to weak. Not so sure about the flaylock....
Regarding the TAC AR I disagree the Scrambler Rifle is far better than the TAC AR and barely anyone is using the TAC anymore. The key succes for the Scramber is to know how the overheating mechanic work and the Charged Shot is really nice but difficult to use. The only thing that keeps the Scrambler from beeing as OP as the old TAC AR is the overheating mechanic.
Just on a sidenote the Amarr Rifles do operate uotside their role as well as they have nearly identical or much higher dps that the high DPS weapons (to be fair they don't have the Range advantage they should have so it's sorta balanced but wrong). |
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