DUST Search - The official nerf AR thread with links and math

KING CHECKMATE wrote:

Im going to be honest with you.

I dont know why CCP BUFFED the AR.
I remember it used to do 31 / 31.5 / 32.5 ish damage.
Now it goes around 37.5 at proto level.
I DONT KNOW WHY CCP did this.
Yes the AR is a pain in the butt to deal with and of course our friend CLONE117 has a lot wrong,but he does have a point.
The AR IS the most Deadly weapon in a 1v1 situation, not considering ranges.
''all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..'' Not really bro,you need proficiency 3-4 to make the Laser rifle work and beat a MLT AR. You are over reacting a little.

But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT>
Not taking into consideration,enemy movement, own fault misses, forgot to reload,etc...
The real nerf the AR needs is:
-ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding)
-Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons.

Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time.
The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op....

IMO that is.


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Pseudonym2 The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 13	Posted - 2013.09.10 23:56:00 - [1] - Quote I think the AR issue has more to do with the "aim assist" than anything else. Delivering head shots when a player is aiming at the opponents hip and allowing hit markers that far exceed the actual accuracy of the weapon will always benefit the high ROF, high range weapon. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. For anyone that cares to do the experiment, hip firing any hitscan weapon against a stationary target using aim assist will yield at least 50% better results than scoping in on the same target at the same distance without aim assist. I've been switching between the two a fair bit lately and it's definitely an issue. The main problem isn't an aim assist mechanic, even though it is far to forgiving. The main problem is that this is actually a bullet assist, which delivers greater accuracy than most of these weapons are actually capable of. Obviously, this favours anyone with range advantage, as they have a much longer opportunity to take advantage of the mechanic, and "insta-kill" anyone who attempts to close with them. The advantage even carries over to short range as one can dodge and jump and still receive the same hipfire accuracy. Just my thoughts.
Pseudonym2 The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 17	Posted - 2013.09.11 17:48:00 - [2] - Quote lrian Locust wrote: D legendary hero wrote: In addition to nerfing the ARs DPS, I also, propose a 25% increase in the range of the shotgun. The shotgun is the only primary weapon without splash damage designed for close range, so it should have a longer range to help it compete better in CQB with SMG and ARs. The shotgun shouldn't compete with the AR for range. It's a shotgun! Give it a higher damage rate to make it as worthwhile as the AR if needed, but keep it close range. The shotgun's range is long enough as it is. CCP shouldn't model other weapons after the AR. Balance is key, but not by turning every other weapon into an AR. Variety is key! I have to agree here, the range of the shotgun is fine. I've tested it against heavies in my own corp and it reaches 0% effectiveness at 30m, you can still do measureable damage at about 20m and less. This is fine for the shotty, so long as it works. If they fix the hit detection properly and the shotty will be fine notwithstanding other issues. The real problem lies in the ability to close the distance and compete at close range. There are very few weapons that should currently have high CQC hip fire accuracy, but everything does. It is currently a weapon without a niche do to unreliability and the ability of others to do the exact same effective damage within shotgun optimal range and still be effective at longer ranges.
Pseudonym2 The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 19	Posted - 2013.09.11 20:01:00 - [3] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: the ar doesnt out perform every other gun in the game idiots... look at assualt fg every says they r op.. look at laser those were said to out perform everything before the nerf.. and now we r saying nerf ar... this is just plain stupidity... just because it std ar can kill a proto suit doesnt mean it needs nerfing... Umm, before that patch, laser rifles were OP, why do you think every match looked like a rave light show. They nerfed it hard,, as they often do, and then they made a correction. As compared to any other weapon I don't think the LR is currently suffering any in it's role, it seems to be taking me down quick enough at long to medium range. Conversely, you can kill at pretty much the same speed, at pretty extreme ranges, and still have utility at medium and short range. As far as assualt FG goes, as far as I can tell there is an exploit that can make them semi-auto, which should be addressed, but really isn't germaine to the discussion. I still believe the main issue is the aim assist, but either way, the AR has always been the favourite child. Compare numbers if you like, the weapon you use can compete with other weapons in every range category, and has always been the easiest weapon to get kills with. Hell, the maps are even all designed around assault rifle range.
Pseudonym2 The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 26	Posted - 2013.09.13 14:10:00 - [4] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Im going to be honest with you. I dont know why CCP BUFFED the AR. I remember it used to do 31 / 31.5 / 32.5 ish damage. Now it goes around 37.5 at proto level. I DONT KNOW WHY CCP did this. Yes the AR is a pain in the butt to deal with and of course our friend CLONE117 has a lot wrong,but he does have a point. The AR IS the most Deadly weapon in a 1v1 situation, not considering ranges. ''all of the other guns can pretty much kill very effectively with out much sp investment..'' Not really bro,you need proficiency 3-4 to make the Laser rifle work and beat a MLT AR. You are over reacting a little. But on the other stuff i think i agree with him. The AR has an insane DPS YES,but tahts in the imaginary case that ALL BULLETS HIT> Not taking into consideration,enemy movement, own fault misses, forgot to reload,etc... The real nerf the AR needs is: -ACtual Dispersion rate and recoil (For an AR they have nothing, the AR is more accurate than my LR, im not kidding) -Reduce the Aim assist, and this goes to all weapons. Before 1.4 we still had the AR is OP thing, but before it was dodgable, bullets hurt but did not hit all the time. The problem is NOW they are hitting 58 out of 60 bullets,andTHATS what makes the AR feel op.... IMO that is. ^^^^100% agreed. This is the main problem with ARs at this moment. No weapon should have the ability to be hip fired as accurately as they currently are. HMG, FG, MD and shotty should have pretty good utility from hipfire, which they already had. SMG and pistols should have moderate utility from hipfire at very close range. Everything else should suffer from pretty significant loss of accuracy unless you aim the damned thing. As for the other points, MD does not compete 1 vs 1 at range against an AR, that's ridiculous. It fires about 1 round per second and you'd be lucky to take down a full health scout suit with a direct hit. I'd truely like to see the footage of someone dropping a moving scout at 40m with a direct hit, cause that's one hell of a shot, and I've dropped snipers. I'm sure it's happened, but I guarantee you the guy who did it felt like Scotty Pippin when it did. Saying your weapon is comparable to those of others because of how it performs in their own niche roles is equally ridiculous. Do I then get to say my shotgun is UP because of it's lack of usefulness against lasers at 60m? Sorry, but if a shotgun, HMG or MD comes around the corner at you at 15m, you're supposed to be screwed if you're running a weapon that's effective at longer range. You "should" be scrambling to pull out that sidearm and get a few shots off before they paint the wall with you. Why? Because that's THEIR niche. Yes, I noted the various changes to lasers in my earlier posts, I also don't see that much of a prob with the way they work now. Get up close with a laser user and you can damn near melee the poor bastard to death.