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Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:

One Eyed King wrote:

I am not really sure how this will play out.

I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better.

Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out.

One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank.

There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good.

Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words.

That is my fear, but it can't be worse than Alpha to Charlie.

True. Now we have a choice--be permascanned, or be non-viable.

Oh wait, those two are the same thing. NVM.

2 damps and a cloak is all you need.

Most of my fits run that setup, and I can still run speed or hack mods.

Granted, Uber-Speed hacks will still be VERY hard to pull off, but Breakers need to move to high slots anyways.

That being said, you can still get off a 5 second hack while damped and cloaked. I'm not too worried.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5308	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:15:00 - [24331] - Quote Garin Caldari wrote: Ok, so I am going to open up engineering and start with the dampening levels. Should I do the other steps first before trying to repec into the gal light and scout suits? So long as you get your Dampening to 5, that is what matter most. In fact, on a Gal suit, given the dampening bonus, it wouldn't hurt to go lvl 3 at least before putting SP back into your other core skills. Though I don't know what it would take for a Gal lvl 3 to beat scans, this sounds like a good question for someone who knows the Gal math better. We always assume max numbers when discussing dampening. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Garin Caldari Immortal Guides 12	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:30:00 - [24332] - Quote So would it be worth it (since I have so many unspent SP) to go straight for Damp 5? Or should I go to 3 and spread some love?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5310	Posted - 2014.11.02 21:32:00 - [24333] - Quote Garin Caldari wrote: So would it be worth it (since I have so many unspent SP) to go straight for Damp 5? Or should I go to 3 and spread some love? Damps to 5 right away IMO 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Cass Caul 1393	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:00:00 - [24334] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Garin Caldari wrote: So would it be worth it (since I have so many unspent SP) to go straight for Damp 5? Or should I go to 3 and spread some love? Damps to 5 right away IMO This. Go for 5 ASAP Also, Gallente Scout Dropsuit Operations III and Profile Dampening V means that a G-I Scout with 3 Complex Dampeners can avoid Gallente Logistics with a Duvolle Focused Scanner. At Gal 3, Damp 5, your base profile is 29 dB A basic dampener gets you to 24 dB or a Complex Dampener gets you to 21 dB. A second complex dampener and you'll be at 17 dB which lets you avoid all passive scans. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5312	Posted - 2014.11.02 22:01:00 - [24335] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Garin Caldari wrote: So would it be worth it (since I have so many unspent SP) to go straight for Damp 5? Or should I go to 3 and spread some love? Damps to 5 right away IMO This. Go for 5 ASAP Also, Gallente Scout Dropsuit Operations III and Profile Dampening V means that a G-I Scout with 3 Complex Dampeners can avoid Gallente Logistics with a Duvolle Focused Scanner. At Gal 3, Damp 5, your base profile is 29 dB A basic dampener gets you to 24 dB or a Complex Dampener gets you to 21 dB. A second complex dampener and you'll be at 17 dB which lets you avoid all passive scans. Good to know. I hate to say it, but this may prompt me to skill Gal scouts into level 3 myself. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5180	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:08:00 - [24336] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Good to know. I hate to say it, but this may prompt me to skill Gal scouts into level 3 myself. Sad Minja is sad MOAR Ladders
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2723	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:10:00 - [24337] - Quote Quick Question: Whats the general opinion on the cloak nerfs? Try to provide a separate opinion for each one (i.e. delay and range reduction) "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5329	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:20:00 - [24338] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quick Question: Whats the general opinion on the cloak nerfs? Try to provide a separate opinion for each one (i.e. delay and range reduction) Delay I am ok with, and would be even if it were longer. Range reduction I am vehemently opposed to. Would rather see shared passives go. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5329	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:21:00 - [24339] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Good to know. I hate to say it, but this may prompt me to skill Gal scouts into level 3 myself. Sad Minja is sad I will wait to see how 1.9 plays out. Stupid range nerf. Tired of the Minja taking the beatings for everyone else. This is way too close to lore for me. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:23:00 - [24340] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quick Question: Whats the general opinion on the cloak nerfs? Try to provide a separate opinion for each one (i.e. delay and range reduction) Delay I am ok with, and would be even if it were longer. Range reduction I am vehemently opposed to. Would rather see shared passives go. Exactly my point of view, though I wanna see how the delay works out first before lengthening it. Shared passives are a bane to balancing this game. Range nerf is unnecessary and completely stupid. Haerr, why???!!!! "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5329	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:27:00 - [24341] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quick Question: Whats the general opinion on the cloak nerfs? Try to provide a separate opinion for each one (i.e. delay and range reduction) Delay I am ok with, and would be even if it were longer. Range reduction I am vehemently opposed to. Would rather see shared passives go. Exactly my point of view, though I wanna see how the delay works out first before lengthening it. Shared passives are a bane to balancing this game. Range nerf is unnecessary and completely stupid. Haerr, why???!!!! In fairness to Haerr, he requested that the scanning profile increase to 99. While it is effectively the same, it is distinct enough a difference for me to not hold it against Haerr too much. But he may be knifed when he is not looking. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5183	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:27:00 - [24342] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Quick Question: Whats the general opinion on the cloak nerfs? Try to provide a separate opinion for each one (i.e. delay and range reduction) Delay I am ok with, and would be even if it were longer. Range reduction I am vehemently opposed to. Would rather see shared passives go. Same as King But less vehemence I think most of us would rather see shared passives goGÇª but it seems not in the cards. Going to see how this goes. If it is really bad I think a push for 50% reduction may be in order. But as always I need to see how it is before make a real call on it. More concerned about Team Shared scans becoming a WP farming paradise If the Sprint glitch fix works and I can viably speed tank i may be happierGÇª If i could fit Codebreakers and Speed tank I would be joyous and give up my shields MOAR Ladders
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:32:00 - [24343] - Quote I don't think people realize just how much this will castrate scouts. We no longer have dampening, and as a Minja, I NEED the cloak to dodge passives. Now the cloak will be something that people will go out of their way to avoid using, and this completely bones the Am and Min scout, rather unsurprisingly. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5332	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:40:00 - [24344] - Quote I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:43:00 - [24345] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5332	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:45:00 - [24346] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words. That is my fear, but it can't be worse than Alpha to Charlie. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:48:00 - [24347] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words. That is my fear, but it can't be worse than Alpha to Charlie. True. Now we have a choice--be permascanned, or be non-viable. Oh wait, those two are the same thing. NVM. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 5185	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:48:00 - [24348] - Quote I'll still be running Minja But I may need to borrow money from First Appia Bank, or the Iggy Investment Institute MOAR Ladders
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:51:00 - [24349] - Quote Ill be a min assault. One damp puts me under vehicle scans, which is all I need. Super CR+SMG=OPness "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7252	Posted - 2014.11.03 03:59:00 - [24350] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words. That is my fear, but it can't be worse than Alpha to Charlie. True. Now we have a choice--be permascanned, or be non-viable. Oh wait, those two are the same thing. NVM. 2 damps and a cloak is all you need. Most of my fits run that setup, and I can still run speed or hack mods. Granted, Uber-Speed hacks will still be VERY hard to pull off, but Breakers need to move to high slots anyways. That being said, you can still get off a 5 second hack while damped and cloaked. I'm not too worried. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.

Cass Caul 1395	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:34:00 - [24351] - Quote You know what the cloak nerf changes for me? muhuwahaha! absolutely nothing! Because I don't need a cloak on my Gallente Suit. I don't need a cloak on my Caldari suit either, but let's face it I was using the Cal Scout as a Light Assault anyway. The Amarr? Damn, that tota- wait, I didn't dampen my Amarr either. The poor minmatar scout. Never gonna hack a point in that suit again. Back to hacking with Gallente Scout. need to avoid amarr scout scans and see who's coming up on me. Not sure how it'll affect knifing for me. Honestly, probably won't be that much. Actually, that's a lie. it's complete bullshit. As long as there is shared passive the minmatar is screwed. The tactical use of the cloak, is to use passive to find people, cloak up, approach, decloak, then attack. If only a single Amarr Scout could see you and they were the only ones to see you disappear off radar then that would totally be a legit thing, but no. Passives are shared with all so the Min-Scout either needs to stack 3 dampeners again or have a group of 3-4 people ready for you and know where you're coming from. . . . unless it is ambush or domination. Those are kinda clusterfucks where you see people dying all the time and can get away with it. So basically, mustard and moody would be the only ones to run min-scout in PC, but moody dropped the scout a long time ago and musturd sightings are rare. But Rex, making an EQ slot worse is not going to cause people to tank more. Dampeners are still the main part of scouting. Min Scouts are the most affected and you really can't make them light assaults as you can with the others. Or maybe we should ask Ghost Kaiser: would you rather played a tanked Scout mk.0 or an Assault M/-1 Series kitted out for combat? On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Cass Caul 1396	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:36:00 - [24352] - Quote Basically it comes down to: Shared Passives need to go to compensate for this nerf. Shared Passives need to go because they're OP. Minmatar Scout needs Passives Scans to be removed to maintain the flexibility of being a knifing assassin and ninja hacker. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2724	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:43:00 - [24353] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: One Eyed King wrote: I am not really sure how this will play out. I see a number of people getting rid of the cloak to keep their passives. They may end up having to tank instead, and I don't think that is necessarily better. Worse, if active scanning becomes nearly spammable again, this will do nothing to inhibit the slayer scout. I myself am thinking about throwing on a scanner instead of REs on a fit to see how that plays out. One thing I am hopeful for is that the reduction of the sprint glitch may make a speed scout more viable. Unfortunately, I think that will favor a Gal scout who can throw on two damps, beat an Amarr scout, and throw on two Complex Kincats and some shield tank. There are a lot of possibilities, but many are not good. Min scouts will be dead. Mark my words. That is my fear, but it can't be worse than Alpha to Charlie. True. Now we have a choice--be permascanned, or be non-viable. Oh wait, those two are the same thing. NVM. 2 damps and a cloak is all you need. Most of my fits run that setup, and I can still run speed or hack mods. Granted, Uber-Speed hacks will still be VERY hard to pull off, but Breakers need to move to high slots anyways. That being said, you can still get off a 5 second hack while damped and cloaked. I'm not too worried. Yes, but using a cloak is kinda like saying "shoot me all you heavies, cause you can just sneak up on me from anywhere within your HMG's optimal" "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7253	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:54:00 - [24354] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes, but using a cloak is kinda like saying "shoot me all you heavies, cause you can just sneak up on me from anywhere within your HMG's optimal" Because none of your team will be providing some scans for you? Works both ways man. Expect those heavies to be shining on your screen if you are going through a high-traffic area. For low traffic areas? You shouldn't have to worry about scans in the first place. In which case you leave cloak off, use that passive, knife in the back and hack the point. It's not perfect, but this isn't doomsday. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7253	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:56:00 - [24355] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Or maybe we should ask Ghost Kaiser: would you rather played a tanked Scout mk.0 or an Assault M/-1 Series kitted out for combat? Implying that MK.0's fit right have tank Also implying that a SCOUT should be chosen over an ASSAULT for COMBAT. We wanted to chase out "Light Assault" Scouts for a reason, remember? I will have my Assault suit in 1.9. It will assault things. But when things need hacked and people need to be assassinated, my Min Scout will be willing and able. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5335	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:16:00 - [24356] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Basically it comes down to: Shared Passives need to go to compensate for this nerf. Shared Passives need to go because they're OP. Minmatar Scout needs Passives Scans to be removed to maintain the flexibility of being a knifing assassin and ninja hacker. I have always been against shared passive scans. I just don't like the idea of heavies, perhaps with 0 SP in precision and range, gaining EWAR advantages because of my fittings and spent SP, passively, with no sacrifice. It just boggles my mind how this can be a good idea. Cass Caul wrote: But Rex, making an EQ slot worse is not going to cause people to tank more. Dampeners are still the main part of scouting. Min Scouts are the most affected and you really can't make them light assaults as you can with the others. But its not just making an EQ slot worse. It's also completely negating any passive range/precision skills and any reason to run those mods. As if there were so many valuable HS mods in the first place. And this goes also to your idea of max/min dampening. If I want to see, I am going to have to be uncloaked. Unless I am Gallente, this means probably being seen. If I am likely to be seen, I might as well tank. Hence one reason I may actually consider skilling into Gallente, although I do have that lvl 4 Cal Scout skill in place I hate using. Hmm, decisions. Anywho, I don't know how many people will go the tanking route, but I am sure some will. We both know that being cloaked isn't invisible, and now that we can't use it defensively and avoid some conflicts just makes tanking even more tempting than before. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5335	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:19:00 - [24357] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes, but using a cloak is kinda like saying "shoot me all you heavies, cause you can just sneak up on me from anywhere within your HMG's optimal" Because none of your team will be providing some scans for you? Works both ways man. Expect those heavies to be shining on your screen if you are going through a high-traffic area. For low traffic areas? You shouldn't have to worry about scans in the first place. In which case you leave cloak off, use that passive, knife in the back and hack the point. It's not perfect, but this isn't doomsday. Here is the question. How can those scouts scan if they are also cloaked? How can those scouts survive being within range of a heavy without being cloaked? I can see a number of different circumstances, and I really don't know what is going to play out, but if anything, active scanners will be more of the help than passive shared from friendly scouts. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Cass Caul 1397	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:20:00 - [24358] - Quote madness! Precision enhancers on a Min-Scout. Damage mods and shields are the only things I ever use. Only on Amarr do I use precision. On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 5335	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:26:00 - [24359] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: madness! Precision enhancers on a Min-Scout. Damage mods and shields are the only things I ever use. Only on Amarr do I use precision. I don't anymore either. I don't even bother with Damage mods. Only shields I find useful. 1.9 Where cloaked scouts give way to tanked scouts. Problem solved?
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7255	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:27:00 - [24360] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Yes, but using a cloak is kinda like saying "shoot me all you heavies, cause you can just sneak up on me from anywhere within your HMG's optimal" Because none of your team will be providing some scans for you? Works both ways man. Expect those heavies to be shining on your screen if you are going through a high-traffic area. For low traffic areas? You shouldn't have to worry about scans in the first place. In which case you leave cloak off, use that passive, knife in the back and hack the point. It's not perfect, but this isn't doomsday. Here is the question. How can those scouts scan if they are also cloaked? How can those scouts survive being within range of a heavy without being cloaked? I can see a number of different circumstances, and I really don't know what is going to play out, but if anything, active scanners will be more of the help than passive shared from friendly scouts. Passive Scanning on a scout will be dead. Sucks, but our main strength will then be in DODGING the scans (Like back in the old days) Remember, Active scans will still be a priority thing. Med frames will be scanning the front lines to keep track of targets. Damped scouts will dodge these scans, and sneak BEHIND their lines. Nobody really scans their own backfield, because it's a waste of resources. Scans are better spent in high traffic areas due to long cool down. Meanwhile, your TEAM will be scanning the area ahead of you, lighting up all non-scout frames. You will use these scans to position yourself, then de-cloak and wreck havoc. While they turn around to deal with you, frontlines push up, taking advantage of a flank opportunity. Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in! FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.



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