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Adipem Nothi wrote:

IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

So, my support thread has taken a bit of a turn in the last few pages and there's some talk of making Logistics the 'lighter' of the two medium frames.
Obviously I thought of you folks, anyone care to weigh in on such notions either here or there?

Cheers,
Cross

Thought I'd say something here instead of wade into a thread I haven't and won't read all of and don't have the general context of what they want fixed but....

Making logis quicker? Not gonna help as TechMech says. You're supposed to be supporting, which means you only need to be as fast as non-scouts.

So here's a crazy idea which you can flame.

What if Logis got a boost to resistances and / or HP based on their proximity to other non-logi / scouts in their squad?

i.e. those they are supporting? To keep them alive longer if that's the issue they're facing. Each assault / heavy in the squad contributes to the boost. Keep your squad alive longer, live longer yourself. That can't be abused but solves a durability problem...if that is the problem.

Not sure of the logistics of implementing this even if it was a good idea (see what I did there?)

Lots and lots "top slayers" were running Logi prior to the Assault buff. Some (perhaps most) have since switched to Assault, but give them resistances ... atop 1000 HP? They'd revert in a heart beat.

Or so I suspect :-)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
voidfaction Void of Faction 390	Posted - 2014.08.23 16:43:00 - [20641] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: mollerz wrote: Hey Cross! If you get a chance, can you discuss with the CPM about BPO conversions? This! Yes! (DPLAK) Yes Please No reason only the gal scout, cal assault, min logi, and amarr sentinel should be able to run free fittings with suit bonuses.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 887	Posted - 2014.08.23 16:54:00 - [20642] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Cross Atu wrote: So, my support thread has taken a bit of a turn in the last few pages and there's some talk of making Logistics the 'lighter' of the two medium frames. Obviously I thought of you folks, anyone care to weigh in on such notions either here or there? Cheers, Cross Thought I'd say something here instead of wade into a thread I haven't and won't read all of and don't have the general context of what they want fixed but.... Making logis quicker? Not gonna help as TechMech says. You're supposed to be supporting, which means you only need to be as fast as non-scouts. So here's a crazy idea which you can flame. What if Logis got a boost to resistances and / or HP based on their proximity to other non-logi / scouts in their squad? i.e. those they are supporting? To keep them alive longer if that's the issue they're facing. Each assault / heavy in the squad contributes to the boost. Keep your squad alive longer, live longer yourself. That can't be abused but solves a durability problem...if that is the problem. Not sure of the logistics of implementing this even if it was a good idea (see what I did there?) Lots and lots "top slayers" were running Logi prior to the Assault buff. Some (perhaps most) have since switched to Assault, but give them resistances ... atop 1000 HP? They'd revert in a heart beat. Or so I suspect :-) This is why I say they get a boost from the assaults and heavies. And only those. One logi in a squad gets up to a 5x boost. Two logis - 4x boost. Proximity is also a factor. It only works if you run with non-logis. Don't see how the bonus would benefit slayer logis. I attempted to solve that with the mechanics. Perhaps it would only kick in when not holding a gun. But that starts getting ~~silly~~ more and more complex. The simple mechanics are the best. But perhaps like you said - better left to the experts. I just like throwing ideas out there sometimes. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4425	Posted - 2014.08.23 17:00:00 - [20643] - Quote @ Swarm Peoples ... the Pilots Have Spoken: "~~Swarms are fine. You're doing it wrong. Get good scrub.~~ OK, you're right. Swarms are sht. But ... Swarms are supposed to be sht. Because of how they're designed. We don't care that it takes a clip at max proficiency to pop a LAV. We oppose improvement to damage. We don't care that swarmers assume massive risk to run us away for a few seconds. We oppose improvement to range. What we might permit is faster swarm projectile speed. " The optimal "fix mix" for Swarms -- in my mind -- would be faster projectile speed, +50-75m range and damage sufficient to pop a LAV in two proto volleys (not three). Swarms still wouldn't be able to solo expensive toys (which is good) or lock them out of play (which is good). Another option would be to alter Swarm behavior such that pilots can no longer claim the defense "must-be-sht because fire-and-forget"* ... though big changes like this may be to much to ask of our Devs. The last option I see is to remove Swarms altogether and end this debate for good. Am I missing anything? What do you guys think? Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 852	Posted - 2014.08.23 17:17:00 - [20644] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Thanks for the fittings links, those are useful, not 100% sure about the focus on avoiding more HP in your post, is that meant as a opinion supporting the 'light logi' method? In either case thanks for the fits and response Basically, I think the majority of the people discussing the issue are terrible players. An increase in base HP will . . . really only spites the Alpha Strike weapons: shotguns, nova knives, mass drivers, and sniper rifles It used to be rare for a Medium Frame to survive 2 shots from a shotgun. It's a lot more common place now. 2.4 seconds to kill a medium frame using a rifle that does 400-500 DPS. Shotguns just got nerfed back to 1.6, before the hit-detection improvements. It's way too easy to get blasted once, turn around, and mow down someone trying to use a shotgun. That's partly why the PLC is my new shotgun: The shotgun is higher risk, lower reward than the Plasma Cannon. That's **** up. But anyway. This really becomes an issue of balancing the game for the lowest common denominator or anticipating that some people actually know what the ** they're doing and that these rare individuals- not even people that are great at the game, but ones that are just good- can greatly take advantage of these changes. I work on cost vs effectiveness of HP. Not in the fitting or ISK sense but in the sense of mobility. 4.5 is like the minimum movement speed you should have an a medium frame. Once you pass that threshold you lose the ability to strafe out of someone's aim assist. But for every 0.25 m/s movement speed you have essentially adds 100 hp. Or, think of it as your speed over 4.5m/s is equivalent to how much longer you can survive in a 1v1. My Minmatar Scout lasts an extra 1.1 second that i normally would survive if they got the drop on me or if i was standing still. Increased HP really won't change much for the typical player, such as yourself Cross, because it will the n become equal across the bored but for better players the change significantly makes the Logistics suits better combatant. The Assault suits still have really **** bonuses. If a single clip from a weapon can kill a target, and I'm actually good enough to hit a moving target then I don't need a sidearm. If I'm going to run inside a city I want armor tanked suits. If I'm running an armor tanked suit then most other people are also going to be doing that. This is why I want to use a Rail Rifle or Combat Rifle with my armor tank suit. I want a shield damaging weapon if I'm outside because that's where shield suits thrive. Yeah, so if my Logistic suit and Assault suit have the same HP, and I don't care about my sidearm, and my Light Weapon never matches my race . . . The next big thing to look at is mobility. If Logistics have nearly the same HP, better mobility, and neither one is better than the other at using cross-racial weapons. Then Logistics suit is going to be my first choice in front-line combat I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Cass Caul 854	Posted - 2014.08.23 17:22:00 - [20645] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: What do you guys think? Am I missing anything? (... and please don't tell me I have skill commando to be effective with swarms; are knives only effective when used by minscouts? ) You forgot to specify that it's circular reasoning: Swarms aren't aloud to be good because they lock on for you Can't use dumb-fire swarms because that's OP. Swarms can't be good because lock on to target I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4426	Posted - 2014.08.23 17:23:00 - [20646] - Quote ^ What Appia said. Emphasis on the last three lines ... Quote: The next big thing to look at is mobility. If Logistics have nearly the same HP, better mobility, and neither one is better than the other at using cross-racial weapons. Then Logistics suit is going to be my first choice in front-line combat Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
mollerz 5055	Posted - 2014.08.23 17:54:00 - [20647] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Swarms aren't aloud to be good because they lock on for you I am disappoint. Dingle Dust Berry.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6616	Posted - 2014.08.23 18:31:00 - [20648] - Quote Please work EDIT: HELL YES. I had to send an email to CCP because I couldn't post or submit support tickets. Not sure what the hell happened, but I can post again! FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Cass Caul 856	Posted - 2014.08.23 18:39:00 - [20649] - Quote @ mollerz I am so sorry. I was in the middle of a PC match when I post. It was pretty full of red squiggles and I just used spell check to fix them. I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6619	Posted - 2014.08.23 18:41:00 - [20650] - Quote mollerz wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Swarms aren't aloud to be good because they lock on for you I am disappoint. No, you are Mollerz FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!

Llast 326 An Arkhos 4212	Posted - 2014.08.23 18:50:00 - [20651] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: mollerz wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Swarms aren't aloud to be good because they lock on for you I am disappoint. No, you are Mollerz No, I am Mollerz KRRROOOOOOM
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6621	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:12:00 - [20652] - Quote Llast 326 wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: mollerz wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Swarms aren't aloud to be good because they lock on for you I am disappoint. No, you are Mollerz No, I am Mollerz THEN I'M BATMAAAAAANNNN FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Immortal John Ripper 24019	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:21:00 - [20653] - Quote I'm not cool enough to be mollerz. Tenzin 4 Earth King
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4212	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:21:00 - [20654] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm not cool enough to be mollerz. Yoda you are? KRRROOOOOOM
General John Ripper 24025	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:21:00 - [20655] - Quote I'm not cool enough to be mollerz. Tenzin 4 Earth King
mollerz 5057	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:25:00 - [20656] - Quote What the hell is going on here! Who is on first? Dingle Dust Berry.
mollerz 5057	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:26:00 - [20657] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm not cool enough to be mollerz. Oh yes you are! pinches cheek Dingle Dust Berry.
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4212	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:26:00 - [20658] - Quote mollerz wrote: What the hell is going on here! Who is on first? My work here is done KRRROOOOOOM
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3223	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:28:00 - [20659] - Quote mollerz wrote: What the hell is going on here! Who is on first? Who's on first, What's on second and I don't know is on third. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Immortal John Ripper 24022	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:38:00 - [20660] - Quote I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Tenzin 4 Earth King

General John Ripper 24025	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:38:00 - [20661] - Quote I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Tenzin 4 Earth King
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3224	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:45:00 - [20662] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Why not just John? I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3482	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:46:00 - [20663] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Bayeth Mal wrote: Those ZNs are better than people make them out to be. Prof 3 now so maybe that makes a difference but I've been charge double swiping sentinels and commandos a lot. Definitely, this is one of my favorite changes that came in Charlie. ADV knives are amazing, a charged shot will usually 1 shot a heavy unless they're very well tanked. I only prefer the proto knives because they have a much greater chance of 1 shotting scouts and medium frames. I have found that with the PG changes, I am able to fit the proto knives on even my standard suit. My fit: M-1 Enhanced Shield Extenders Proto Knives Adv SMG Std Flux Std RE Std PG Enhancer Std KinCats About 30k isk. 0 PG left over, 2 or 3 CPU to spare. It is beautiful. I still have to occasionally 2 hit a heavy with these, like I did yesterday, but usually I OHK everything. A lot of times, if its a medium frame or a scout, I don't even need to bother with charging, so I can fight on the move. It is cheap enough that if I have a bad game I don't lose too much, but since charlie my KDR has increased by 1 at least, so now I my good games make me quite a bit of isk. ZNs are great if you are running super cheap std fits and that is all you can put on, but if you can throw on a PG enhancer, that extra damage is so worth it. Ghost Kaisar wrote: Please work EDIT: HELL YES. I had to send an email to CCP because I couldn't post or submit support tickets. Not sure what the hell happened, but I can post again! It is probably all those double posts. You broke the forums. Good work. You can always tell a Millford Minja
Cass Caul 860	Posted - 2014.08.23 19:55:00 - [20664] - Quote Spademan wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Why not just John? he could also be the man from earth I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5098	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:03:00 - [20665] - Quote Woop 1,000 pages! Bojo For CPM
Immortal John Ripper 24023	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:25:00 - [20666] - Quote Spademan wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Why not just John? I typed in "meaning of john" in google and before giving me any links. google defines it for me with. Quote: john j+ñn/ noun informal noun: john; plural noun: johns 1. North American a toilet. 2. a prostitute's client. Lies! I would never hook up with a minmatar girl... Tenzin 4 Earth King
General John Ripper 24025	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:25:00 - [20667] - Quote Spademan wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Why not just John? I typed in "meaning of john" in google and before giving me any links. google defines it for me with. Quote: john j+ñn/ noun informal noun: john; plural noun: johns 1. North American a toilet. 2. a prostitute's client. Lies! I would never hook up with a minmatar girl... Tenzin 4 Earth King
Cass Caul 861	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:26:00 - [20668] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Woop 1,000 pages! And only 33 pages late I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 3224	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:42:00 - [20669] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: Spademan wrote: Immortal John Ripper wrote: I'm also not drunk enough to call myself General John Ripper. I'm a nobody. I have no identity. Why not just John? I typed in "meaning of john" in google and before giving me any links. google defines it for me with. Quote: john j+ñn/ noun informal noun: john; plural noun: johns 1. North American a toilet. 2. a prostitute's client. Lies! I would never hook up with a minmatar girl... First thing I got was Graced by God. Take your pick. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 3488	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:45:00 - [20670] - Quote Immortal John Ripper wrote: Lies! I would never hook up with a minmatar girl... We wouldn't want your kind touching our women (or men) anyways. You can always tell a Millford Minja



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