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Cass Caul wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Cass Caul wrote:

Cross Atu wrote:

Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself).

what? 'real world' context.
Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is.

'real world' = deployed in game

since we have no test server a lot of stuff simply won't show it's actual in game impact until it's actually in game

this is the problem of balance issues being a democracy and not a meritocracy.
Time and time again the specialists have shown they know the game and the numbers better than the devs do.
Case and point, Logibro's "look what I can do" thread about changing the sniper rifle reticle. He went through and saw a majority of people agreed with it. . . except none of the specialist, the people that have been using the weapon for over a year, the people that continue to use the weapon despite it's ******* terrible state, we're receiving the idea warmly.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 178 post(s)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2638	Posted - 2014.08.09 16:57:00 - [19471] - Quote Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
voidfaction Void of Faction 351	Posted - 2014.08.09 17:48:00 - [19472] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: While I understand that its easier to balance us if our min/max potentials are more tightly clustered, I am a 'bit worried about how overlapping strengths will impact role identities ... 1. What role do you guys see the CalScout serving post-Charlie? 2. If we move forward with efficacy bonuses, how would we augment this role to set him apart from the others? 1. It might make a good red line sniper. but that can be done better with more eHP using another class. only other thing I can see it useful for is low profile shield tank. 2. I would augment them into a minmatar scout as nobody ever talks of augmenting them into having efficacy bonus. Think about it now you want efficacy bonus on a scout with 2 slots for 2 bonuses and still wont mention the words efficacy bonus for a minmatar scout. Ask this question again after the minmatar efficacy bonus discussion.
Cass Caul 419	Posted - 2014.08.09 17:54:00 - [19473] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). what? 'real world' context. Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Cass Caul 420	Posted - 2014.08.09 17:59:00 - [19474] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Been having a lot of success with this fit today. 16/3 ambush 17/3 ambush (Vs. NS Heavy Spam) 38/8 Dom This fit should be even better in Charlie huehuehuehue Fully Charged Knife deals around 1300 damage with both connecting. Flaylock has 235 damage per splash vs. Armor. 705 in a clip. This should be good. That and I can finally dodge scans! I've been running something similar for kicks ... and charlie practice :-) TY-5 and TT-3 were OK alternatives to M209. Tried swapping in an Adv MagSec ... terrible. Might have to give it a shot with that Flaylock. I've gone back to M-I, 2x enhanced sidearm damage mods, IshNoKs, Toxin SMG, no EQ, flux grenade, CPU extender, enhanced kincat. lol, right. it was that fit adn dual plasma cannon that dropped my KDR If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3793	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:01:00 - [19475] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). Thanks for the update, Cross. Pleased to hear they'll be keeping an eye on Swarms. Don't tell any pilots, but I'm hanging mine up until they work better. Getting alot more done by just ignoring / avoiding vehicles altogether. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 420	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:14:00 - [19476] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). Thanks for the update, Cross. Pleased to hear they'll be keeping an eye on Swarms. Don't tell any pilots, but I'm hanging mine up until they work better. Getting alot more done by just ignoring / avoiding vehicles altogether. Allotek Plasma Cannon + Lai Dai Packed AV Grenades Ishukone Assault Forge Gun + Lai Dai Sleek AV Grenades Haven't touched my Wiyrkomi Swarm Launcher since 1.6. Basically no reason to -minor use when they added vehicle damage WPs but quickly dropped it because it's still crap- It's just a waste of space, SP, and ISK If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5001	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:32:00 - [19477] - Quote Quick give me 6 likes! OP FOTM lacks cognition
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 584	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:33:00 - [19478] - Quote I don't know about the "pro swarms are fail" thing... seems like every time I lose a tank, it's either a Particle Cannon or Wyrkomi Swarms. Of course, I don't know how many others are shooting at me when those PRO swarms finish me because I can't see anything but the hit markers and my entire screen flashing blue from missile explosions, but yeah. How many SL users does it take to put down a Madrugar? Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3798	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:37:00 - [19479] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Quick give me 6 likes! I got # 5000! Also ... First Prophet sighting! Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5001	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:39:00 - [19480] - Quote Bojo 5-Thousand! RAWR! OP FOTM lacks cognition

Cass Caul 433	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:46:00 - [19481] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Bojo 5-Thousand! RAWR! No one should give likes to Cass Caul anymore. She's at the perfect number... For the first time I am going to log into a different account just to give myself a like. because i ******* hate stoners. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Cass Caul 434	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:52:00 - [19482] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Bojo 5-Thousand! RAWR! No one should give likes to Cass Caul anymore. She's at the perfect number... For the first time I am going to log into a different account just to give myself a like. because i ******* hate stoners. lol, I gave myself 2. I have no clue where the other 12 came from. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Right-wing Extremist Nos Nothi 584	Posted - 2014.08.09 18:53:00 - [19483] - Quote Looking forward to 666, myself. Jaceon Pale-eye. Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG. Unless Mal says no :(
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3798	Posted - 2014.08.09 19:08:00 - [19484] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: How many SL users does it take to put down a Madrugar? With hardeners active, I haven't the slightest idea. Lots. With hardeners on cooldown, I'd estimate 6+ back-to-back proto, pro(5) swarms. I'm estimating as I've not put 6 into a Madrugar since Bravo. After three, I'm either dead or he's well out of range by the time I finish reloading. A scout's far better off running REs, AV Nades or one of Appia's crazy PLC configs :-) Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Cass Caul 434	Posted - 2014.08.09 19:18:00 - [19485] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: How many SL users does it take to put down a Madrugar? With hardeners active, I haven't the slightest idea. Lots. With hardeners on cooldown, I'd estimate 6+ back-to-back proto, pro(5) swarms. I'm estimating as I've not put 6 into a Madrugar since Bravo. After three, I'm either dead or he's well out of range by the time I finish reloading. A scout's far better off running REs, AV Nades or one of Appia's crazy PLC configs :-) I run PLC in PC full time now. Just sayin'. Edit: When I'm not using a FG If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5010	Posted - 2014.08.09 19:42:00 - [19486] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Bojo 5-Thousand! RAWR! No one should give likes to Cass Caul anymore. She's at the perfect number... For the first time I am going to log into a different account just to give myself a like. because i ******* hate stoners. :( In the words of Rasco, I still got mouths to feed so don't be givin' me *** I don't need* OP FOTM lacks cognition
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 768	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:01:00 - [19487] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). what? 'real world' context. Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 768	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:10:00 - [19488] - Quote Bayeth Mal wrote: Spademan wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Lol Calscout with 50% scan range and 15% dampening. Damned bastards have to steal all our stuff. Were you guys here when Ratty was talking to us about it? His logic was fairly straight forward. Bonuses need to take into account the slot layout of the suit. I forget what page but he listed the basic principles he was working towards. One of them was that every scout should be able to beat all scans if they fill all their lows with Damps and have a Proto cloak on. With the exception of Gallente who can get away with just all lows being Damps. Caldari and Amarr will be the closest to an Assault suit still as their bonuses apply to the modules it has the least of, thus encouraging it to fill the others with tank, which fits the lore I guess. While I still don't like the idea of anybody having passive precision this seems to be the best we're going to get (I miss the days of Scout v Scout being a blind fight) Not that it matters, I turn on my PS3 about once a month now let alone play Dust. Yeah I was here. Just trying to summarise the finalised changes in a language that helps me make decisions of what to bring to the field rather than cells and numbers. What I summarised looks weird, and doesn't match what felt like good stuff in the earlier discussions. It calls into question, in my mind at least, what the roles are. But to be honest, that's been our problem for long enough that I will deal. Am I to take it that what I wrote is correct then? Nobody seems to have pointed out any fallacies with it. TBH, I just want three months of SP to get into Minja L5 + Knives L5, and have some fuuun ;-) You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1946	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:25:00 - [19489] - Quote My counter for the forum wide "heavy spam" "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2787	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:30:00 - [19490] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: My counter for the forum wide "heavy spam" Issue: The poem breaks at ARR. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2643	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:51:00 - [19491] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). what? 'real world' context. Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is. 'real world' = deployed in game since we have no test server a lot of stuff simply won't show it's actual in game impact until it's actually in game See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2643	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:54:00 - [19492] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). Thanks for the update, Cross. Pleased to hear they'll be keeping an eye on Swarms. Don't tell any pilots, but I'm hanging mine up until they work better. Getting alot more done by just ignoring / avoiding vehicles altogether. There's an ongoing conversation on this subject among the CPM currently. If y'all shop locals want to toss up a few posts to give me some extra fodder as I weigh in on it I'd certainly be happy to use it See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6217	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:54:00 - [19493] - Quote Right-wing Extremist wrote: Looking forward to 666, myself. Help me get to 6,666 FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1947	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:55:00 - [19494] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: My counter for the forum wide "heavy spam" Issue: The poem breaks at ARR. Hmm...this was from pre-1.6 i believe...it may need an update Also, made an interesting thread regarding differences between Sentinels and Scouts in GD. Id recommend you all take a look "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
Cass Caul 437	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:55:00 - [19495] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). what? 'real world' context. Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is. 'real world' = deployed in game since we have no test server a lot of stuff simply won't show it's actual in game impact until it's actually in game this is the problem of balance issues being a democracy and not a meritocracy. Time and time again the specialists have shown they know the game and the numbers better than the devs do. Case and point, Logibro's "look what I can do" thread about changing the sniper rifle reticle. He went through and saw a majority of people agreed with it. . . except none of the specialist, the people that have been using the weapon for over a year, the people that continue to use the weapon despite it's ******* terrible state, we're receiving the idea warmly. The specialist, the number crunchers, the meta enthusiasts; we've looked at the number and said they're making it worse. Nope. I'm a CCP Dev, my hubris is so great I can never be wrong, especially when I am wrong. that's when I am the most right! If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Cass Caul 437	Posted - 2014.08.09 21:56:00 - [19496] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Looking forward to 666, myself. Help me get to 6,666 Imma use all my alts to report all the topics you post in so the threads get locked adn you can't gain any more likes. If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts
Spademan The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2787	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:02:00 - [19497] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Spademan wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: My counter for the forum wide "heavy spam" Issue: The poem breaks at ARR. Hmm...this was from pre-1.6 i believe...it may need an update Also, made an interesting thread regarding differences between Sentinels and Scouts in GD. Id recommend you all take a look Well it's the rhyme that's the issue, R doesn't rhyme with Car. I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special. Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6219	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:02:00 - [19498] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Right-wing Extremist wrote: Looking forward to 666, myself. Help me get to 6,666 Imma use all my alts to report all the topics you post in so the threads get locked adn you can't gain any more likes. Reported for using alts and awesomeness FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2643	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:03:00 - [19499] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Cass Caul wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Back with a quick word on swarms, the upshot is that the current changes are slated as a first step to assess a number of things in a 'real world' context with the intent of advising future points of polish (not all of which are directly to the SL itself). what? 'real world' context. Is the the argumentative platform to say we need to change strafe speed to 75% and backwards speed to 50%? Because I think it is. 'real world' = deployed in game since we have no test server a lot of stuff simply won't show it's actual in game impact until it's actually in game this is the problem of balance issues being a democracy and not a meritocracy. Time and time again the specialists have shown they know the game and the numbers better than the devs do. Case and point, Logibro's "look what I can do" thread about changing the sniper rifle reticle. He went through and saw a majority of people agreed with it. . . except none of the specialist, the people that have been using the weapon for over a year, the people that continue to use the weapon despite it's ******* terrible state, we're receiving the idea warmly. tilts head to the side So wait, Appia, you're saying that in your view there would be no reason to test things in an actual play environment if the proper select sub-group(s) were consulted? If so I'm not sure I'd go that far. Should those who use an item or role most heavily and primarily have input on it? Of course. Does that always happen? I can't say for sure but I'd lean towards probably not. However conversations certainly do take place, and are taking place, and let us all be brutally honest here, this is a game and fun can be subjective so there are times when there is no empirically correct answer, and there are even more frequent times when the most knowledgeable specialists are also not the most objective with regards to their specialized field, all of which contributes to parsing feedback being a rather messy prospect. Of course I'm still a firm supporter of the notion that quality feedback can indeed be found, and used, and that sifting for it even in an imperfect manner, is worthwhile. Which is part of why I just asked for swarms feed back in this thread, turns out I trust you bastards to get it right more often than you get it wrong and I'd like to hear the POV from around these parts. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cass Caul 437	Posted - 2014.08.09 22:08:00 - [19500] - Quote Spademan wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Spademan wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: My counter for the forum wide "heavy spam" Issue: The poem breaks at ARR. Hmm...this was from pre-1.6 i believe...it may need an update Also, made an interesting thread regarding differences between Sentinels and Scouts in GD. Id recommend you all take a look Well it's the rhyme that's the issue, R doesn't rhyme with Car. In those Atlantic isle over there, do you guys just pronounce the letter "R" on its own 'aww' Because you say the word "car" like it was spelled "caww" If you can't keep up, shut up. Math is easy, you're just stupid. The Empress of Alts



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