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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 189 post(s)
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1039	Posted - 2013.03.19 04:51:00 - [991] - Quote You have a problem when a corp can win every battle but still lose their district. With a minimum clone loss of 150, the attackers won't bring any less. That means the defenders would lose 75 clones if they managed a win with a 2:1 KDR. That's what you need to just break even (assuming you don't have other clones available to move). So less than a 2:1 ratio will result in a whittling down of available clones even if every battle is won. Eventually the defender will be cloned out of their district. Things will go better for the defenders if they can win by MCC destruction, but I don't think by much. You need to balance the replacement rate against expected losses at a decent KDR. Demanding 2:1 is a bit much.
5Y5T3M 3RR0R The Southern Legion 5	Posted - 2013.03.19 05:30:00 - [992] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Okay this is a really important question to me about the current conquest system. Who really wants to sell your conflict resource (clones) for a profit in a conflict game? Ships, moon resources, control towers, ammunition, modules, etc. are all conflict resources in Eve Online yet plenty of people buy and sell them like the New York Stock Exchange. But that doesn't mean the vast majority of the players don't use those resources to start conflicts. Much of the reason for buying and selling (once the market opens up to allow a player-controlled economy) is to fund for wars. Much of the reason for farming is to fund wars. So far, Eve Online has thrived under this system and I'm confident it will help FPS players as well since it provides a supplemental source (secondary) income to the average corp needing to find ways to fund their battles. I understand how that works for EVE and in that environment it makes sense because EVE has periods of both peace and war. This is because EVE has other things to do. In DUST 514 there is nothing but war...
Rubico BetaMax. CRONOS. 2	Posted - 2013.03.19 06:05:00 - [993] - Quote Random question that i cant find the answer to: It seems that there is no real value of clones outside of planetary conquest. Is CCP going to create a demand for these surplus clones to be of value? Will these clones initially be sold back to NPCs?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 07:04:00 - [994] - Quote Skihids wrote: You have a problem when a corp can win every battle but still lose their district. With a minimum clone loss of 150, the attackers won't bring any less. That means the defenders would lose 75 clones if they managed a win with a 2:1 KDR. That's what you need to just break even (assuming you don't have other clones available to move). So less than a 2:1 ratio will result in a whittling down of available clones even if every battle is won. Eventually the defender will be cloned out of their district. Things will go better for the defenders if they can win by MCC destruction, but I don't think by much. You need to balance the replacement rate against expected losses at a decent KDR. Demanding 2:1 is a bit much. I'm going to build an example using the following list of criteria: 1. Both teams are similarly equipped and have equal skill at killing other players. This means there should be approximately a 1:1 K/D during each battle. 2. The attacker holds their own district, thus allowing them to send only 150 clones (instead of the 200 you'd be sending in a Genolution pack). 3. The attacker's district isn't under attack, but they only hold one district. 4. The Defenders are holding a district with a Research Lab, meaning they get no bonuses that relate to defense of the district. 5. The attackers are on the same planet as the defenders, meaning no clone loss on their attack. Using these criteria, it's obvious that a defender who is winning has all the advantages. I'm going to present two scenarios below, working with the above criteria, one where the attacker has a Cargo Hub, and one where they have a Production Facility. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume the defender is winning the battle by MCC destruction, but after killing 100 clones and losing 100 of their own. Cargo Hub: Day 1: Attacker starts with 450 clones. Sends 150 to attack defender. Defender has 300 clones, and loses 100. Attacker loses 150 clones, 50 of which survive the battle. Of those 50 survivors, 20% are given to the defenders. Day 2: Attacker has only 300 clones left, meaning 150 left after launching the attack. Their 75 clone production means they have 225 left in the district post-battle. Defender recovered 10 clones from the enemy, and 75 clones are produced on-site. They have 285 clones remaining. Day 3: Attacker has 225 clones left. That leaves 75 after launching the attack, plus the 75 being produced that day. This means you only have 150 clones left. If you attack again on day 4, you will be abandoning your current district to do so. I wouldn't call that a viable strategy when you've been destroying the profitability of your own district to inflict minimal damage against the defenders. Day 4: No attack happens, but a new one is scheduled for day 5. Now-stalled attacker has 225 clones again, but the defender has a full 300 based on only 45 of their 75 clones produced. That means they get PROFIT from the remaining 30 while the attacker is earning NOTHING because they're spending all their clones on attacks. Production Facility: Day 1: Attacker starts with 300 clones. Sends 150 to attack defender. Defender has 300 clones, and loses 100. Attacker loses 150 clones, 50 of which survive the battle. Of those 50 survivors, 20% are given to the defenders. Because there are only 15 clones left, launching an immediate follow-up attack will result in the attackers cloning themselves out of their own district before they produce enough clones to retain the territory. Day 2: No attack happens, but a follow-up is scheduled for the following day. The defenders are only down 15 clones, and that means they make a profit from selling the other 60. Attacker has 225 clones after production. Day 3: Attacker sends 150 clones from their district. After production, they only have 150 clones, meaning they lose the district if they follow up with another attack. Obviously, this means the attacker can lock down an enemy district on alternating days as long as they manage to go without any need to defend their territory. Conclusion: Attacking and NOT winning in Planetary Conquest will quickly become unsustainable, and achieves too little to be a cost-effective way to "grind" an enemy district down. I don't see this being much of an exploit, if at all.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 07:05:00 - [995] - Quote Rubico wrote: Random question that i cant find the answer to: It seems that there is no real value of clones outside of planetary conquest. Is CCP going to create a demand for these surplus clones to be of value? Will these clones initially be sold back to NPCs? Clones are going to be (initially) sold back to Genolution. So yes, NPC Corp. And probably will only be useful to Corps going into NullSec, where (hopefully) Genolution won't be operating so you'll be relying purely on player-sold clones.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion 306	Posted - 2013.03.19 07:07:00 - [996] - Quote 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Okay this is a really important question to me about the current conquest system. Who really wants to sell your conflict resource (clones) for a profit in a conflict game? Ships, moon resources, control towers, ammunition, modules, etc. are all conflict resources in Eve Online yet plenty of people buy and sell them like the New York Stock Exchange. But that doesn't mean the vast majority of the players don't use those resources to start conflicts. Much of the reason for buying and selling (once the market opens up to allow a player-controlled economy) is to fund for wars. Much of the reason for farming is to fund wars. So far, Eve Online has thrived under this system and I'm confident it will help FPS players as well since it provides a supplemental source (secondary) income to the average corp needing to find ways to fund their battles. I understand how that works for EVE and in that environment it makes sense because EVE has periods of both peace and war. This is because EVE has other things to do. In DUST 514 there is nothing but war... There will be areas that are more peaceful... and you primarily sell off excess clones, not the ones you plan to attack with. Border zones will likely be under constant attack, whereas a district 2-4 jumps from the front lines wont likely see as much action due to clone attrition.
Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 39	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:37:00 - [997] - Quote Question : What will happen if defenders stay all the time in the MCC without fighting ? Take a 300 clones district being attack. The attacker send the minimum : 150 clones. Defenders dont want to fight Attackers win by MCC destruction, and lost 150 clones. Defenders loose 20% of their clones --> 240 clones still on the district. Attack day 2 : 240 - 48 = 192 Attack day 3 : 154 Attack day 4 : 124 Attack day 5 : 100 etc... etc... It cost 75M to the attackers in clone value (150 clones per attack, 5 attack, 100,000 ISK per clone) on day 5, and they still don't have the district. So ok, defenders don't win any ISK or loots, but they don't loose district, and it's impossible for attackers to sustain this with a 100 clones production per day with a SI (and it's fu*king boring...) We need a way to FORCE people to play the game, and not just reward them for playing it. A redline countdown ? Need to be enough, and Bolas stop drinking ;) I don't have the solution for this, but it needs to be adress.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:45:00 - [998] - Quote Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Question : What will happen if defenders stay all the time in the MCC without fighting ? Take a 300 clones district being attack. The attacker send the minimum : 150 clones. Defenders dont want to fight Attackers win by MCC destruction, and lost 150 clones. Defenders loose 20% of their clones --> 240 clones still on the district. Attack day 2 : 240 - 48 = 192 Attack day 3 : 154 Attack day 4 : 124 Attack day 5 : 100 etc... etc... It cost 75M to the attackers in clone value (150 clones per attack, 5 attack, 100,000 ISK per clone) on day 5, and they still don't have the district. So ok, defenders don't win any ISK or loots, but they don't loose district, and it's impossible for attackers to sustain this with a 100 clones production per day with a SI (and it's fu*king boring...) We need a way to FORCE people to play the game, and not just reward them for playing it. A redline countdown ? Need to be enough, and Bolas stop drinking ;) I don't have the solution for this, but it needs to be adress. The attacking sides don't lose their clones. Their clones will be send home. If there is no home the clones will be sold for 100k each. The defender will indeed loose all clones. Thats how I understand the scenario.
Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 39	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:47:00 - [999] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Question : What will happen if defenders stay all the time in the MCC without fighting ? Take a 300 clones district being attack. The attacker send the minimum : 150 clones. Defenders dont want to fight Attackers win by MCC destruction, and lost 150 clones. Defenders loose 20% of their clones --> 240 clones still on the district. Attack day 2 : 240 - 48 = 192 Attack day 3 : 154 Attack day 4 : 124 Attack day 5 : 100 etc... etc... It cost 75M to the attackers in clone value (150 clones per attack, 5 attack, 100,000 ISK per clone) on day 5, and they still don't have the district. So ok, defenders don't win any ISK or loots, but they don't loose district, and it's impossible for attackers to sustain this with a 100 clones production per day with a SI (and it's fu*king boring...) We need a way to FORCE people to play the game, and not just reward them for playing it. A redline countdown ? Need to be enough, and Bolas stop drinking ;) I don't have the solution for this, but it needs to be adress. The attacking sides don't lose their clones. Their clones will be send home. If there is no home the clones will be sold for 100k each. The defender will indeed loose all clones. Thats how I understand the scenario. No, because you a a MINIMUM loose of 150 clones, whatever happen.
Shaze 'Jazz' Sovatsor R.I.f.t 2	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:54:00 - [1000] - Quote Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Question : What will happen if defenders stay all the time in the MCC without fighting ? Take a 300 clones district being attack. The attacker send the minimum : 150 clones. Defenders dont want to fight Attackers win by MCC destruction, and lost 150 clones. Defenders loose 20% of their clones --> 240 clones still on the district. Attack day 2 : 240 - 48 = 192 Attack day 3 : 154 Attack day 4 : 124 Attack day 5 : 100 etc... etc... It cost 75M to the attackers in clone value (150 clones per attack, 5 attack, 100,000 ISK per clone) on day 5, and they still don't have the district. So ok, defenders don't win any ISK or loots, but they don't loose district, and it's impossible for attackers to sustain this with a 100 clones production per day with a SI (and it's fu*king boring...) We need a way to FORCE people to play the game, and not just reward them for playing it. A redline countdown ? Need to be enough, and Bolas stop drinking ;) I don't have the solution for this, but it needs to be adress. The attacking sides don't lose their clones. Their clones will be send home. If there is no home the clones will be sold for 100k each. The defender will indeed loose all clones. Thats how I understand the scenario. No, because you have a MINIMUM loose of 150 clones, whatever happen. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest Please check the Possible Conflict Resolutions First Conflict Resolution: Attacker kills MCC -> Remaining Attacker Clones Go Home "Please note: The losing side of a battle will lose a minimum of 100 clones. If they lose 125 during the fight that is what they lose. If they lose 75 during the fight then they will lose a total of 100 at the end. " (The mininum has been changed to 150)

Mr Gloo Gloo What The French CRONOS. 39	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:56:00 - [1001] - Quote Shaze 'Jazz' Sovatsor wrote: Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: Question : What will happen if defenders stay all the time in the MCC without fighting ? Take a 300 clones district being attack. The attacker send the minimum : 150 clones. Defenders dont want to fight Attackers win by MCC destruction, and lost 150 clones. Defenders loose 20% of their clones --> 240 clones still on the district. Attack day 2 : 240 - 48 = 192 Attack day 3 : 154 Attack day 4 : 124 Attack day 5 : 100 etc... etc... It cost 75M to the attackers in clone value (150 clones per attack, 5 attack, 100,000 ISK per clone) on day 5, and they still don't have the district. So ok, defenders don't win any ISK or loots, but they don't loose district, and it's impossible for attackers to sustain this with a 100 clones production per day with a SI (and it's fu*king boring...) We need a way to FORCE people to play the game, and not just reward them for playing it. A redline countdown ? Need to be enough, and Bolas stop drinking ;) I don't have the solution for this, but it needs to be adress. The attacking sides don't lose their clones. Their clones will be send home. If there is no home the clones will be sold for 100k each. The defender will indeed loose all clones. Thats how I understand the scenario. No, because you have a MINIMUM loose of 150 clones, whatever happen. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest Please check the Possible Conflict Resolutions First Conflict Resolution: Attacker kills MCC -> Remaining Attacker Clones Go Home "Please note: The losing side of a battle will lose a minimum of 100 clones. If they lose 125 during the fight that is what they lose. If they lose 75 during the fight then they will lose a total of 100 at the end. " (The mininum has been changed to 150) Ok, didn't note this, thanks for the explanation.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.03.19 08:57:00 - [1002] - Quote Where did you get this Info from. Referring to the EVELopedia site under the topic possible conflict resulution I find the following. Attacker destroys MCC Defender ISK Reward: 0 ISK Attacker ISK Reward: Biomass of Clones destroyed Remaining Attacker Clones : Go home Who Owns The District : Defender District Penalty: Not generating clones. And somewhere a Dev statet not defending a district will result in a loss of clones for the defender.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 09:13:00 - [1003] - Quote The minimum 150 clone loss is for the loser of the battle, not for everyone involved, and not for the attacker every time. Attacking and winning is viable and practical. Attacking and losing (see my previous post) isn't sustainable long-term.
5Y5T3M 3RR0R The Southern Legion 5	Posted - 2013.03.19 09:49:00 - [1004] - Quote The Black Jackal wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Okay this is a really important question to me about the current conquest system. Who really wants to sell your conflict resource (clones) for a profit in a conflict game? Ships, moon resources, control towers, ammunition, modules, etc. are all conflict resources in Eve Online yet plenty of people buy and sell them like the New York Stock Exchange. But that doesn't mean the vast majority of the players don't use those resources to start conflicts. Much of the reason for buying and selling (once the market opens up to allow a player-controlled economy) is to fund for wars. Much of the reason for farming is to fund wars. So far, Eve Online has thrived under this system and I'm confident it will help FPS players as well since it provides a supplemental source (secondary) income to the average corp needing to find ways to fund their battles. I understand how that works for EVE and in that environment it makes sense because EVE has periods of both peace and war. This is because EVE has other things to do. In DUST 514 there is nothing but war... There will be areas that are more peaceful... and you primarily sell off excess clones, not the ones you plan to attack with. Border zones will likely be under constant attack, whereas a district 2-4 jumps from the front lines wont likely see as much action due to clone attrition. Will you really be selling them? Wouldn't you instead be moving them to the front lines to bolster your forces for other attacks and defences? I mean the average front line territory under sustained assault needs between 2 and 5 territories to support it depending on which currently suggested system you choose..
Django Quik R.I.f.t 311	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:05:00 - [1005] - Quote SHANN da MAN wrote: You say Minimum Clone movement is going to be 150 clones ... is that only for movement to attack? What about moving clones from one District you own to another District you own (reinforcement)? Is it going to stay at 100 Minimum or will that be raised to 150 Minimum also? If Reinforcement Movement is raised to 150 clone Minimum it will ALWAYS be a severe drain on the donating district ( 1/2 or 1/3 of Maximum clones allowed in District depending on SI in District) and leave it vulnerable to attack from another Corp in its weakened state. Minimum movement is for any movement whether it's attacking or just reinforcing another district you own. You're correct about it being a severe drain on the donating district and that's all part of the game - strategy.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 311	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:09:00 - [1006] - Quote 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Will you really be selling them? Wouldn't you instead be moving them to the front lines to bolster your forces for other attacks and defences? I mean the average front line territory under sustained assault needs between 2 and 5 territories to support it depending on which currently suggested system you choose.. If you're winning the defense of your border systems, as Garrett described earlier, you won't need to send reinforcements to them. Also though, if your border systems are under constant attack, they're locked and you can't send reinforcements (but they will still be producing their own clones as long as you win the defenses).
Django Quik R.I.f.t 311	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:10:00 - [1007] - Quote Django Quik wrote: What's this new number? 'Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK' Can anyone explain what this number is please? I think I've missed something somewhere...
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:15:00 - [1008] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Django Quik wrote: What's this new number? 'Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK' Can anyone explain what this number is please? I think I've missed something somewhere... That should be the cost you have to pay to move your clones from one district to another on the same planet
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:27:00 - [1009] - Quote 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: The Black Jackal wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: 5Y5T3M 3RR0R wrote: Okay this is a really important question to me about the current conquest system. Who really wants to sell your conflict resource (clones) for a profit in a conflict game? Ships, moon resources, control towers, ammunition, modules, etc. are all conflict resources in Eve Online yet plenty of people buy and sell them like the New York Stock Exchange. But that doesn't mean the vast majority of the players don't use those resources to start conflicts. Much of the reason for buying and selling (once the market opens up to allow a player-controlled economy) is to fund for wars. Much of the reason for farming is to fund wars. So far, Eve Online has thrived under this system and I'm confident it will help FPS players as well since it provides a supplemental source (secondary) income to the average corp needing to find ways to fund their battles. I understand how that works for EVE and in that environment it makes sense because EVE has periods of both peace and war. This is because EVE has other things to do. In DUST 514 there is nothing but war... There will be areas that are more peaceful... and you primarily sell off excess clones, not the ones you plan to attack with. Border zones will likely be under constant attack, whereas a district 2-4 jumps from the front lines wont likely see as much action due to clone attrition. Will you really be selling them? Wouldn't you instead be moving them to the front lines to bolster your forces for other attacks and defences? I mean the average front line territory under sustained assault needs between 2 and 5 territories to support it depending on which currently suggested system you choose.. When a territory is full (300 or 450), selling off the clones is the only option. If you want to use them to reinforce, you send your 150 men forward right before the RT, so that the replacement clones (75 or 100) will fill out the reduced numbers.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2060	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:34:00 - [1010] - Quote Korvin Lomont wrote: Django Quik wrote: Django Quik wrote: What's this new number? 'Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK' Can anyone explain what this number is please? I think I've missed something somewhere... That should be the cost you have to pay to move your clones from one district to another on the same planet http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest#Distance_And_Its_Effect_On_Moves It's that, I think. Would be nice to know if the ISK prices are all being scaled up to match, or if they're just putting a minimum cap on the transport price...

Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 11	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:51:00 - [1011] - Quote Yepp that would be good to know.

CCP FoxFour C C P C C P Alliance 2091	Posted - 2013.03.19 10:51:00 - [1012] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Korvin Lomont wrote: Django Quik wrote: Django Quik wrote: What's this new number? 'Genolution base cost to move: 500,000 -> 3M ISK' Can anyone explain what this number is please? I think I've missed something somewhere... That should be the cost you have to pay to move your clones from one district to another on the same planet http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest#Distance_And_Its_Effect_On_Moves It's that, I think. Would be nice to know if the ISK prices are all being scaled up to match, or if they're just putting a minimum cap on the transport price... The primary thing is bumping up the base cost, how much we bump up the rest has not been decided but I think it will probably just be by how much we did the base. In other words I would expect it to look like: Planet: 3M System: 3.5M 1J: 4.5M 2J: 5.5M And so on...

Django Quik R.I.f.t 311	Posted - 2013.03.19 11:01:00 - [1013] - Quote Ah right, all this time I'd missed that you have to pay to move clones... makes sense but doesn't having it so high provide a massive disincentive to sending an attack?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 311	Posted - 2013.03.19 11:05:00 - [1014] - Quote Also, I've been thinking that currently the Research SI is the weakest of the three available and could do with a bit of a buff in some way. I understand that the Production and Cargo SIs are good for bolstering your defense and profit margins; how about if the Research SI as well as decreasing attrition, also decreased the cost of moving clones?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2061	Posted - 2013.03.19 11:25:00 - [1015] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Also, I've been thinking that currently the Research SI is the weakest of the three available and could do with a bit of a buff in some way. I understand that the Production and Cargo SIs are good for bolstering your defense and profit margins; how about if the Research SI as well as decreasing attrition, also decreased the cost of moving clones? This is a brilliant idea. Especially if it's something big like a 50% reduction in base cost. So that 3 million becomes a much more manageable 1.5 million ISK. 2 Million to move to another planet in the system, then the other costs as advertised.
Skihids The Tritan Industries 1042	Posted - 2013.03.19 12:24:00 - [1016] - Quote The defender losing the district even when winning each battle can happen when they are constanty attacked by starter packs. A corp with deep pockets can wipe out a smaller corp simply by outspending them. This can be done via a splinter corp if they currently own a district. It's expensive, but not prohibitively so if you manage to keep it close to 1:1.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 313	Posted - 2013.03.19 12:32:00 - [1017] - Quote Skihids wrote: The defender losing the district even when winning each battle can happen when they are constanty attacked by starter packs. A corp with deep pockets can wipe out a smaller corp simply by outspending them. This can be done via a splinter corp if they currently own a district. It's expensive, but not prohibitively so if you manage to keep it close to 1:1. It's possible but only if you lose more than 95 clones and win each time. And even then, in order to lose the district the defenders do actually need to lose a battle. If you're losing that many clones each game, you're probably not going to survive that long anyway.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 314	Posted - 2013.03.19 12:39:00 - [1018] - Quote Here's another suggestion: How about some sort of retreat mechanic for abandoning a district under attack (but not during a battle). Say you survive the first wave of an attack from a much bigger better corp on one of your districts; you are locked because they have decided they'll come back to finish you off tomorrow. You know you're probably going to lose but can move your remaining clones to another nearby district to save the lose of (clone) lives. The district remains attack locked, so no one else can swoop in to claim it (as if it were abandoned) and the attackers still have to wait until the next RT to find out the defenders have left and the district is turned over to them. This could only be done after losing a defense and only if you have more than one district, so you have somewhere to move your clones to. What do you all think?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 314	Posted - 2013.03.19 12:41:00 - [1019] - Quote Another thought on the minimum movement amount - what happens if you've only got 50 clones left on a district but you want to abandon the district and move all those clones to another district you own? Can you move less if that's all there is to move?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2066	Posted - 2013.03.19 12:42:00 - [1020] - Quote Skihids wrote: The defender losing the district even when winning each battle can happen when they are constanty attacked by starter packs. A corp with deep pockets can wipe out a smaller corp simply by outspending them. This can be done via a splinter corp if they currently own a district. It's expensive, but not prohibitively so if you manage to keep it close to 1:1. Using a 1:1 ratio and a blitz on the MCC against a bad team that's just trying to grind/outspend you, it's reasonable that you could keep losses to a minimum, you can come out with a net GAIN in clones instead of a loss (meaning you're still running a profit if you're already at the clone cap). For a district with a Production Facility, you can comfortably lose 100 clones and still more than cover your losses. If you can keep the clone loss below 85, then you'll make those back no matter what SI your district runs. Firstly, you gain 75 clones. If the attackers' MCC is killed, they lose 150 clones. Unless you've killed more than that, you'll get 10 clones back from the attackers (50 remaining clones x 20% = 10). That means that with 85 clones lost, you made back your losses. For an attack like this to be practical, the defenders basically have to be running negative consistently, and even then, the attackers will need to pour impractical amounts of money given the profits they'll see in return.



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