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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 189 post(s) |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
2048
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:23:00 -
[841] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Would other clone numbers stay the same? Minimum movement of 100 clones? Max clones without cargo 300? etc.
For the current train of thought, yes. |
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:25:00 -
[842] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:With Django's exploit, you'd want to be running a 1 man Corp with a go-between delivering money so he doesn't have to earn all the costs for himself.
And you have to choose between the extra 20 clones/2 million ISK, or the extra 5 million from clone destruction.
So you're 20M down, and another 11 million (at most) up after each day. 9 million ISK a day may not be huge by EVE standards, but it's definitely not sustainable on its own, and the more territory you hold, the worse it becomes.
You could just give each sub corp 100M isk to start with.
And CCP Fox Four retracted his previous statement, so you could only spend 7M per day. With some corps supposedly holding 700M isk, this isn't unimagineable.
Also, it's not a sustainable longterm strategy but could definitely be used in the first few weeks to take a small planet of say 5 districts. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2463
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:25:00 -
[843] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them.
cant u sell in packs of 100 or 200? also if ur raising starter packs to 200 will the base clone count on districts and regen rate be upped as well?? |
Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French CRONOS.
39
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:26:00 -
[844] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them.
Damn no !!!
You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack...
Or it could be a real big war on day 1 !!! Well, we had rest enough, let's do some sport !!! |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
2048
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:27:00 -
[845] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack...
How so?
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Booby Tuesdays
THE DOLLARS
38
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:33:00 -
[846] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them.
Why stop there? Make 300 clones the only option, that way a Corp is forced to max out their clones from the get go, and any PF's become pure profit as well. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:34:00 -
[847] - Quote
I can't personally see the immediate advantages to the system of giving people more clones from the outset.
Let's see - things that could now be possible: -On day 1 each corp could claim 1 district with a decent number of 200 clones. -On day 1 each corp could claim 2 districts with 100 clones each. -Corps with no district could attack with greater numbers on day 2 but still less than a corp with a district that's produced clones since day 1. -Corps with no district could attack 2 districts with 100 clones each.
Erm, anything else different?
I guess the big change is the cost involved. It would mean any kind of corp-splitting system would be significantly more expensive, ruling out all but the richest of richness corps. I think it would also likely be a massive turn off for any corp less than a hundred or so members. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:36:00 -
[848] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them. Damn no !!! You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... Or it could be a real big war on day 1 !!! Well, we had rest enough, let's do some sport !!!
Let's not forget that you need to wait until your district unlocks from setting the initial reinforcement timer on day 1, so still no attacking from your first district until day 2. |
Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French CRONOS.
39
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:37:00 -
[849] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... How so?
Day 1
Take one district with main corp. x districts with sisters. 1 sister attack a district (empty or not ?) with 199 clones, is that possible ? Main attack the 1st sister with 100 clones.
It could be 3 districts for main on day 1.
Or as I said, a damn war .... |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:38:00 -
[850] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... How so?
Not really changing anything in respect to that. You'd still be spending the same amount of isk to fake attack 2 districts with 1 sub-corp instead of 2. |
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Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French CRONOS.
39
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:38:00 -
[851] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them. Damn no !!! You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... Or it could be a real big war on day 1 !!! Well, we had rest enough, let's do some sport !!! Let's not forget that you need to wait until your district unlocks from setting the initial reinforcement timer on day 1, so still no attacking from your first district until day 2.
This ok, noted... |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:41:00 -
[852] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... How so? Day 1 Take one district with main corp. x districts with sisters. 1 sister attack a district (empty or not ?) with 199 clones, is that possible ? Main attack the 1st sister with 100 clones. It could be 3 districts for main on day 1. Or as I said, a damn war ....
Careful, you're in danger of going back down the route we earlier debunked as unsustainable.
As far as I can see, the only real split corp problem is the one I outlined here |
Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French CRONOS.
39
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:50:00 -
[853] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:You will increase the splits corp "issue" ... If you stil need a minimum of 100 clones to attack... How so? Day 1 Take one district with main corp. x districts with sisters. 1 sister attack a district (empty or not ?) with 199 clones, is that possible ? Main attack the 1st sister with 100 clones. It could be 3 districts for main on day 1. Or as I said, a damn war .... Careful, you're in danger of going back down the route we earlier debunked as unsustainable. As far as I can see, the only real split corp problem is the one I outlined here
And what if money is not a problem ? And this will be interesting to have a lots of battles day 1. We are hungry !!! ;) |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:54:00 -
[854] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: And what if money is not a problem ? And this will be interesting to have a lots of battles day 1. We are hungry !!! ;)
First line is exactly my point and why this needs to be addressed. Second line is going to happen anyway. 1000+ corps to 250 districts? Granted a lot will be turned off by an even higher starting price of 40M isk but I'd say you're still looking at 500+ corps.
BTW, I have no idea where the 1000+ corps number came from - someone said that a few pages back and I've just been running with it ever since. Still, seems like a plausible number. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2463
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:58:00 -
[855] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: And what if money is not a problem ? And this will be interesting to have a lots of battles day 1. We are hungry !!! ;)
First line is exactly my point and why this needs to be addressed. Second line is going to happen anyway. 1000+ corps to 250 districts? Granted a lot will be turned off by an even higher starting price of 40M isk but I'd say you're still looking at 500+ corps. BTW, I have no idea where the 1000+ corps number came from - someone said that a few pages back and I've just been running with it ever since. Still, seems like a plausible number.
there are 1000 corps on this game? corps that actually fight too? |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 12:59:00 -
[856] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Couple of questions, sorry if I missed an earlier answer:
1) An important mechanic will be the queue on "who gets to attack". How would this be iterated? 2) Will the maps be enlarged from the skirmish of present, or perhaps in later versions of PC? 1) When someone attacks a district it is set as under attack and cannot be attacked by anyone else. To avoid district sniping for 1 hour from the time a battle starts only the currently attacking corporation can launch another attack. This means they can ensure they are the ones to grind a district down. 2) No comment on this.
Just to go back to this point quickly - Am I understanding correctly that attacking an unlocked district works on a first come first serve basis? So should an attacker choose not to continue attacking, the attack will go to whoever launches an attack first after the exclusivity hour is up? |
Mr Gloo Gloo
What The French CRONOS.
39
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:01:00 -
[857] - Quote
Tbh, 40M is a bigger cost with ISK value today, that's for sure...
Much more difficult to deploy this with 10+ districts, even with a huge and well organize corp as we don't have access to the corporation taxe today ... So it will decrease the massive effect that we could see with 100 clones = 20M. |
Starfire Revo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:03:00 -
[858] - Quote
Is there a possibility of giving corps a choice between 100 clones for 20 mil and 200 for 40? |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:04:00 -
[859] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Django Quik wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: And what if money is not a problem ? And this will be interesting to have a lots of battles day 1. We are hungry !!! ;)
First line is exactly my point and why this needs to be addressed. Second line is going to happen anyway. 1000+ corps to 250 districts? Granted a lot will be turned off by an even higher starting price of 40M isk but I'd say you're still looking at 500+ corps. BTW, I have no idea where the 1000+ corps number came from - someone said that a few pages back and I've just been running with it ever since. Still, seems like a plausible number. there are 1000 corps on this game? corps that actually fight too?
There are over 1200 threads in the corporation recruitment forum section - granted a decent number of them may be old and defunct or duplicates but there are also many corps who don't use that section too. 1000 functioning corps seems reasonable with maybe 500 able and willing to take part in PC; I can see that being the case. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:06:00 -
[860] - Quote
Mr Gloo Gloo wrote:Tbh, 40M is a bigger cost with ISK value today, that's for sure...
Much more difficult to deploy this with 10+ districts, even with a huge and well organize corp as we don't have access to the corporation taxe today ... So it will decrease the massive effect that we could see with 100 clones = 20M.
Meh, not really because you could split your starting number to cover 2 districts (claiming or attacking). The costs in terms of splitting would be the same really. |
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2464
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:10:00 -
[861] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Django Quik wrote:Mr Gloo Gloo wrote: And what if money is not a problem ? And this will be interesting to have a lots of battles day 1. We are hungry !!! ;)
First line is exactly my point and why this needs to be addressed. Second line is going to happen anyway. 1000+ corps to 250 districts? Granted a lot will be turned off by an even higher starting price of 40M isk but I'd say you're still looking at 500+ corps. BTW, I have no idea where the 1000+ corps number came from - someone said that a few pages back and I've just been running with it ever since. Still, seems like a plausible number. there are 1000 corps on this game? corps that actually fight too? There are over 1200 threads in the corporation recruitment forum section - granted a decent number of them may be old and defunct or duplicates but there are also many corps who don't use that section too. 1000 functioning corps seems reasonable with maybe 500 able and willing to take part in PC; I can see that being the case.
i see the vast majority of those corps being turned off after the initial failed attempt to take districts off someone and head back to IB or FW tbh
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Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:12:00 -
[862] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Django Quik wrote:
There are over 1200 threads in the corporation recruitment forum section - granted a decent number of them may be old and defunct or duplicates but there are also many corps who don't use that section too. 1000 functioning corps seems reasonable with maybe 500 able and willing to take part in PC; I can see that being the case.
i see the vast majority of those corps being turned off after the initial failed attempt to take districts off someone and head back to IB or FW tbh
Yeh, totally true but the first few days everyone's going to want to try at least. |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
221
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:13:00 -
[863] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them.
- This would open up options and remain balanced in general purposes. Good premise.
- The alt corp lockdown play would be reinforced by this providing more clones daily. You would not lose in growth speed by doing it, only in isk. This is not an issue, if the lockdown spam is addressed otherwise.
- The long distance clone drop attack would be much stronger with 200 clones. I'm talking about a scenario, where a wealthy corp chooses to burn ISK and project force by dropping clone bombs on remote enemies from alt corps. If you have 100 clones in such an attack it's easy to defend it by cloning the enemy team. I think this could be the main gameplay balance thing of the mechanic: the remote genolution attack (whatever you want to call it) might become the bread and butter mechanic for a mercenary outfit hired to harass a competitor. If they have 100 clones to do so, they need to be really good. If they have 200, they can do with less skill. Whether this is a good thing should be pondered. I don't like the mechanic, as it allows bypassing the clone projection jump cost by just spending ISK.
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
2050
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:18:00 -
[864] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Couple of questions, sorry if I missed an earlier answer:
1) An important mechanic will be the queue on "who gets to attack". How would this be iterated? 2) Will the maps be enlarged from the skirmish of present, or perhaps in later versions of PC? 1) When someone attacks a district it is set as under attack and cannot be attacked by anyone else. To avoid district sniping for 1 hour from the time a battle starts only the currently attacking corporation can launch another attack. This means they can ensure they are the ones to grind a district down. 2) No comment on this. Just to go back to this point quickly - Am I understanding correctly that attacking an unlocked district works on a first come first serve basis? So should an attacker choose not to continue attacking, the attack will go to whoever launches an attack first after the exclusivity hour is up?
Correct |
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Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
167
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:27:00 -
[865] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Django Quik wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Couple of questions, sorry if I missed an earlier answer:
1) An important mechanic will be the queue on "who gets to attack". How would this be iterated? 2) Will the maps be enlarged from the skirmish of present, or perhaps in later versions of PC? 1) When someone attacks a district it is set as under attack and cannot be attacked by anyone else. To avoid district sniping for 1 hour from the time a battle starts only the currently attacking corporation can launch another attack. This means they can ensure they are the ones to grind a district down. 2) No comment on this. Just to go back to this point quickly - Am I understanding correctly that attacking an unlocked district works on a first come first serve basis? So should an attacker choose not to continue attacking, the attack will go to whoever launches an attack first after the exclusivity hour is up? Correct
I don't quite understand the exclusivity period. I realize the corp that attacks gets first dibs to attack again, but does that 1-hour exclusivity period include the attack itself or just setting the attack?
In other words, if we attack at 2:00-3:00pm, and want to attack again, will we be attacking at 3:00-4:00pm or will we have to set an attack and it will launch at 2:00-3:00pm the following day?
Also, does having your district in a state of Under Attack prevent that district from attacking anyone else? |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
221
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:28:00 -
[866] - Quote
Hey, was the remote clone bomb topic beat to death already? Has it been discussed?
Planned mechanic loveliness: Attacking 6 clone jumps gives a survival rate of 20%, making this the business of the very best out there. The clone projection makes logistical borders and creates local empires.
Metagame problem: The above cool thing is ruined by dropping genolution clone bombs from alt corps, giving 100 (or 200) clones instantly anywhere on the map. Metagaming around clone projection breaks logistical borders and would be pretty shattering when thought in the grand New Eden future nullsec content.
Solutions?
- Make this an acceptable form of force projection and limit the strenght by sticking with a low genolution clone pack amount.
- System upgrades resembling cynosural jammers, that limit the genolution attack strenght on districts or remove the possibility.
- Genolution clones cannot be used in nullsec; you need to expand to nullsec from lowsec.
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BursegSardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
65
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:33:00 -
[867] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:I want to open this up for discussion, we are currently thinking of increasing the clone starter pack to 200 clones. This also means an increase from 20 million to 40 million ISK in cost.
There are a few reasons for this, but before I go into that I want to hear your opinions and thoughts without influencing them.
I think options in a sandbox are important. So maybe have two choices? |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
301
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:38:00 -
[868] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Django Quik wrote: Just to go back to this point quickly - Am I understanding correctly that attacking an unlocked district works on a first come first serve basis? So should an attacker choose not to continue attacking, the attack will go to whoever launches an attack first after the exclusivity hour is up?
Correct I don't quite understand the exclusivity period. I realize the corp that attacks gets first dibs to attack again, but does that 1-hour exclusivity period include the attack itself or just setting the attack? In other words, if we attack at 2:00-3:00pm, and want to attack again, will we be attacking at 3:00-4:00pm or will we have to set an attack and it will launch at 2:00-3:00pm the following day? Also, does having your district in a state of Under Attack prevent your district from attacking anyone else?
The attack is always during the reinforcement time set by the defender, so in your scenario would be the same time the next day. The exclusivity window just allows the attackers to ensure they get to attack again without someone else trying to snipe the spot from them.
And to your last point - correct. As soon as you are 'under attack' your district is locked. You can't move clones in to defend or out to attack. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
2050
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:38:00 -
[869] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Django Quik wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Couple of questions, sorry if I missed an earlier answer:
1) An important mechanic will be the queue on "who gets to attack". How would this be iterated? 2) Will the maps be enlarged from the skirmish of present, or perhaps in later versions of PC? 1) When someone attacks a district it is set as under attack and cannot be attacked by anyone else. To avoid district sniping for 1 hour from the time a battle starts only the currently attacking corporation can launch another attack. This means they can ensure they are the ones to grind a district down. 2) No comment on this. Just to go back to this point quickly - Am I understanding correctly that attacking an unlocked district works on a first come first serve basis? So should an attacker choose not to continue attacking, the attack will go to whoever launches an attack first after the exclusivity hour is up? Correct I don't quite understand the exclusivity period. I realize the corp that attacks gets first dibs to attack again, but does that 1-hour exclusivity period include the attack itself or just setting the attack? In other words, if we attack at 2:00-3:00pm, and want to attack again, will we be attacking at 3:00-4:00pm or will we have to set an attack and it will launch at 2:00-3:00pm the following day? Also, does having your district in a state of Under Attack prevent your district from attacking anyone else?
Take a read through this, it should answer most those questions: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest
I will however try and answer them again here for you. As seen in the Reinforcement timers section (http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Planetary_Conquest#Reinforcement_Timers):
Specifically take a look at the attack scenarios. You seem to be mixing up the launch attack time and the time when attacks actually happen, the reinforcement time.
So in attack scenario 01: Reinforcement timer set to 12:00 - 13:00 Attacker launches an attack at 11:00 on Monday Defending district set as "under attack" Battle happens in the 12:00 - 13:00 window on Tuesday
For arguments sake lets say the battle ends up being at 12:30. The attackers have from 12:30 until 13:30 to launch another attack on the district. If they choose to do so the battle will happen in the 12:00 - 13:00 window on Wednesday. Does that make sense? |
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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
376
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Posted - 2013.03.18 13:44:00 -
[870] - Quote
Confirming that there has already been talk in Test of using alt corps to troll district owners. |
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