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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.07.16 20:59:00 - [601] - Quote Kb/m is going to win over the analog sticks. It can't be balanced, anything can be worked around. Nuff' said.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:05:00 - [602] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm not planning on using it (except for testing purposes), but I fully support KB+M on the condition that it's at least relatively well balanced against the standard sixaxis controller. Where on earth did you get that idea? Kb/m is better in almost every way sans movement, but even in that it isn't far behind. Heck, there are gaming keyboards out there with analog sticks for movement, getting rid of that last slight disadvantage.
Barnes Almighty Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 38	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:07:00 - [603] - Quote Wow its like all you girls have never played a game with support for both. Quick example unreal tournament 3 on ps3 supported both. FYI keyboard offers no real advantage I regularly smashed keyboard users. Stop crying, pick up your tampons and adapt or die....... Bloody bunch of fairys.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:46:00 - [604] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm not planning on using it (except for testing purposes), but I fully support KB+M on the condition that it's at least relatively well balanced against the standard sixaxis controller. Where on earth did you get that idea? Kb/m is better in almost every way sans movement, but even in that it isn't far behind. Heck, there are gaming keyboards out there with analog sticks for movement, getting rid of that last slight disadvantage. I've actually lost track of how many times I've already explained this even if you only count the times in this thread, but I'll bite (again). Mouse control gives players TWO potential advantages against using an analog stick on a sixaxis controller. 1. Precision. Not arguing there. Mouse has advantage, and there's no rational way to remove it. 2. Speed. THIS CAN AND SHOULD BE CONTROLLED. You might want to take a close look at point 2 again. The CORE advantage that most console kiddies won't accept is that mouse control lets you spin on a dime without loss of precision. Analog sticks don't give you anywhere near that level of freedom. But guess what? Turning speed in DUST is one of the tools used to balance everything, so if it's possible for a mouse user to outpace a max-sensitivity sixaxis controller on the exact same setup, game balance is lost. Because this is blatantly and almost painfully obvious, CCP won't be stupid enough to intentionally disrupt one of the points around which balance has been established in the game, so no matter how fast you TRY to spin, you're going to have the same turning speed cap as we do. You just lost your main advantage. THAT is the reason there's an imbalance, and in games where it's handled right, it's NOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE THE GAME IS BALANCED FOR KB+M VS. CONTROLLER. If they do a competent job of implementing things, it's fine.
Genhawkk Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 19	Posted - 2012.07.16 21:55:00 - [605] - Quote Barnes Almighty wrote: Wow its like all you girls have never played a game with support for both. Quick example unreal tournament 3 on ps3 supported both. FYI keyboard offers no real advantage I regularly smashed keyboard users. Stop crying, pick up your tampons and adapt or die....... Bloody bunch of fairys. Just because you "smashed" keyboard users does not mean that there is no advantage; just means your better with the controller then those particular people with keyboard (or they just suck). If you take two equal people (exact if possible (obviously not)); then the keyboard has an advantage that you can not possibly deny (unless you are stupid). Just because someone has an advantage doesn't mean they can't lose; but they still have an advantage (see every sport ever played).
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:05:00 - [606] - Quote Genhawkk wrote: Barnes Almighty wrote: Wow its like all you girls have never played a game with support for both. Quick example unreal tournament 3 on ps3 supported both. FYI keyboard offers no real advantage I regularly smashed keyboard users. Stop crying, pick up your tampons and adapt or die....... Bloody bunch of fairys. Just because you "smashed" keyboard users does not mean that there is no advantage; just means your better with the controller then those particular people with keyboard (or they just suck). If you take two equal people (exact if possible (obviously not)); then the keyboard has an advantage that you can not possibly deny (unless you are stupid). Just because someone has an advantage doesn't mean they can't lose; but they still have an advantage (see every sport ever played). No. When COMPETENTLY implemented (see Shadowrun for an example of the exact opposite), KB+M can be fairly balanced against a console-style controller or gamepad. If there is (as in DUST) a hard cap on turning (which in DUST's case is varied based on Dropsuit), that hard cap can be carried over to mouse control, and when implemented correctly, will completely negate the turning speed advantage which is the core reason KB+M is better for FPS games. Shadowrun, of course, was made by completely incompetent morons who didn't bother to think this through appropriately. Unlike those developers, CCP are actually capable of producing something worth playing. All they need is to DO IT RIGHT.
Jimbeezy Imperfects Negative-Feedback 219	Posted - 2012.07.16 22:11:00 - [607] - Quote I personally can't wait to compete against KB/M players. I have done it before in the past and I admit it's a challenge....but I love a challenge. Two friends of mine bought converter boxes for the consoles years ago so they can use a KB/M on any FPS they want. I have played against them enough to know that there wont be a drastic advantage. There turn speed's are out of this world tho .
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:11:00 - [608] - Quote I'm not convinced KBM can be implemented and retain balance, but at this point we will just have to see. However, even if it does work out, the REAL hurdle CCP will have to overcome is convincing PS3 players that it is balanced. The stigma alone of "KBM support" is enough to turn off large swaths of potential players before they even try the game. There is a large minority of players that will hear it has KBM and just automatically "NOPE" without hesitation, but I admit it's pure speculation to try and gauge whether more players will dismiss the game outright due to KBM or be drawn to it for the same reason. My GUT tells me it'll be A LOT more of the former than the latter, but time will tell.
GSP GoTSoMePoT Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:15:00 - [609] - Quote I think KB/M will not be added to the FPS part of the game . I think the KB/M will be added to the EvE part of the game . There is two parts of this game . Dust FPS part on Console. I ( Controler ) I is the balance in the middle ? EvE ships part on Console. I ( KB/M ) But Just remember DUST and EvE are also two different games at the same time too . EvE is a PC game . ( KB/M ) DUST is a Console game . ( Controler ) Just think about what you have ben told . If you can't see the balance in the middle . Go back and read from the beginning . CCP said they are adding KB/M to the game . But they didn't say what they were adding KB/M suport to in the game .
xeto rak Epidemic. Space Immigration 23	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:27:00 - [610] - Quote Why does it have to be balanced? if KB+M gives any advantage everybody can use it, so it's your choice to use a less or better performing device when you have the option to do so... I would think that KB+M is way more accurate. Benefits may be more visible in different situations, not necessarily in close range. Why not use the one you feel more comfortable with and enjoy!

Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:42:00 - [611] - Quote GSP GoTSoMePoT wrote: I think KB/M will not be added to the FPS part of the game . I think the KB/M will be added to the EvE part of the game . There is two parts of this game . Dust FPS part on Console. EvE ships part on Console. But Just remember DUST and EvE are also two different games at the same time too . EvE is a PC game . DUST is a Console game . Just think about what you have ben told . If you can't see the balance in the middle . Go back and read from the beginning . CCP said they are adding KB/M to the game . But they didn't say what they were adding KB/M suport to in the game . I "LoL" in your general direction.
GSP GoTSoMePoT Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:52:00 - [612] - Quote ( BONUS LEVEL ) ( SPACE TROLLS ) (Note:) Plz do not feed space trolls they can multiplie fast . ( Space invaders ) ( Begin )
GSP GoTSoMePoT Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:52:00 - [613] - Quote ^^^ lol --- ( space invaders ) ---
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:52:00 - [614] - Quote GSP GoTSoMePoT wrote: ( BONUS LEVEL ) ( SPACE TROLLS ) (Not:) Plz do not feed space trolls they can multiplie fast . ( Space invaders ) ( Begin ) Feeds the space trolls
GSP GoTSoMePoT Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.17 00:53:00 - [615] - Quote ^^^ lol --- ( space invaders ) ---
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 811	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:04:00 - [616] - Quote xeto rak wrote: Why does it have to be balanced? if KB+M gives any advantage everybody can use it, so it's your choice to use a less or better performing device when you have the option to do so... It's also everyone's choice to simply not play Dust 514, which is what most of us are assuming will be the choice the large majority of players pick if KBM isn't balanced.
thereal herbzula Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:30:00 - [617] - Quote I am starting to get the feeling that the controller users are scared of the Kb/M users. Kb/m are playing hindered on there abilities due to the controller. We are better gamers, and will prevail. Hopefully we can get our tools of destruction in this game.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:41:00 - [618] - Quote thereal herbzula wrote: I am starting to get the feeling that the controller users are scared of the Kb/M users. Kb/m are playing hindered on there abilities due to the controller. We are better gamers, and will prevail. Hopefully we can get our tools of destruction in this game. "Better gamers" is a stupid remark. Its a different control scheme, and it has advantages. However, some people outright suck with KBM, and some people suck with a gamepad. It's a matter of preference at the core. I personally don't see the need to balance KBM with DS3, it's an advantage that is available to everyone. Besides, most of the casual gamers using the DS3 are probably going to do most of the Ambush matchmaking stuff in HiSec, while the "hardcore" KBM users will probably be in low/null-sec doing corp contracts. The community will probably be relatively split.
Talaryes Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 8	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:47:00 - [619] - Quote Just throwing my 2 isk in here... Speaking as a new PS3 owner (yes I bought it and the Merc Pack to get into the beta, so help me God), I'd say that I didn't bother to learn to fight with the gamepad. It is counter intuitive to use and slows me down a lot. After trying it out at the local mall, I've went ahead to get a Move, PS3 Eye camera, Nav Controller and Shapshooter, and I'd say that with these, its really the way FPS games should be played. Good enough to make me feel envious as a long time pc gamer. Now I know not all PS3 owners are that privileged to be able to get all these peripherals, but I believe the much cheaper option of a KB+Mouse (when the functionality comes out) will be a viable and more effective alternative to the gamepad. I'm not dissing the gamepad for veteran console gamers who're already used to it. I'm just saying for new PS3 owners and FPS players, that there're good alternatives, and I applaud CCP for offering all 3...Soon(tm).
thereal herbzula Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 62	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:50:00 - [620] - Quote Regardless, i do not understand y everyone is so against have the ability to choose what controls to use. If i was better with a controller i wont care if enemies used a Kb/m, i would just kill them more and give them no reason to complain about controls. Likewise with the kb/m set up. I would also rater play with someone using the KB/m, and is better with it, than them using the controller and making the whole team suffer. There are a lot of aspects to this discussion, not just who can kill who with what step up better. I also agree with Talareys. He put it very nicely. (sorry if i mis-spelt your name)

Azura dark 31	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:52:00 - [621] - Quote actually kb/m is easier as you have more control, console fps is harder as you have to fight the pad aswell as your openent making fps more fun and not easy. yes i have a gaming pc. console is harder and more fun.
GSP GoTSoMePoT Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 43	Posted - 2012.07.17 01:57:00 - [622] - Quote I think KB/M will not be added to the FPS part of the game . I think the KB/M will be added to the EvE part of the game . There is two parts of this game . Dust FPS part on Console. I ( Controler ) I is the balance in the middle ? EvE ships part on Console. I ( KB/M ) But Just remember DUST and EvE are also two different games at the same time too . EvE is a PC game . ( KB/M ) that has space ships in it . DUST is a Console game . ( Controler ) that has FPS in it and maybe space ships in it later on . Just think about what you have ben told . If you can't see the balance in the middle . Go back and read from the beginning . CCP said they are adding KB/M to the game . But they didn't say what they were adding KB/M suport to in the game . Just trying to get some ppl to think about the game befor its tolate .. PLZ : ^^^ lol --- ( space invaders ) ---
Geirskoegul Soul-Strike 134	Posted - 2012.07.17 15:53:00 - [623] - Quote Azura dark wrote: actually kb/m is easier as you have more control, console fps is harder as you have to fight the pad aswell as your openent making fps more fun and not easy. yes i have a gaming pc. console is harder and more fun. The fun part is a matter purely of opinion; this is irrefutable. As to "harder," yes, it's harder in the same way that trying to hammer in a nail with a screwdriver, or screw a screw with a hammer, is harder than using a screwdriver for the screw and a hammer for the nail. The point is that it's not harder in the sense of challenge and complexity (the good kind of hard), it's harder in the sense of compensating for tools that simply don't do the job well. Good on the (willing) controller users for pulling it off, they're fighting with a disadvantage, but it doesn't warrant the point of pride they make it out to be. Something I like to do in EVE is run level 4 missions using an assault frigate. It's challenging and fun, it takes a bit of skill, and it's excellent practice for manual piloting (anyone that wants to learn how to manage angular velocity and learn to speed tank well should try it.) That said, it's certainly not a point of pride being able to do it. It's absolutely not the right tool for the job, it's slow, it's poorly-suited to it, but it can be done, and I do it anyway. I would compare using a controller when a keyboard and mouse is an option to that above scenario (to an extent; as myself and others have noted, some people are just better with controllers than they are with a mouse). They're fighting an uphill battle, and good on them for persevering in spite of it. At the end of the day, though, it's not a point of additional pride, because someone equally skilled with a controller, against someone equally skilled with a mouse, are both just as good as the other, the only difference is that the one with the mouse has an edge. Just using a controller, and managing to hold your own doesn't mean you're a better player at all, it simply means you're still a good player in spite of inferior controls.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.07.17 16:17:00 - [624] - Quote Azura dark wrote: actually kb/m is easier as you have more control, console fps is harder as you have to fight the pad aswell as your openent making fps more fun and not easy. yes i have a gaming pc. console is harder and more fun. When you suck with a controller, you have to fight against it as well as your opponent. When you know what you're doing, you don't. Same rules apply to KB+M.
caries san Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.07.18 11:04:00 - [625] - Quote if they do not add a mouse and keyboard, then this game can be safely deleted: ( I have no idea how to properly play a shooter without a mouse ...
shade emry Doomheim 5	Posted - 2012.07.18 12:57:00 - [626] - Quote Phantomnom wrote: Here's a tip, get off your aiming crutch and learn to play with a CONSOLE CONTROLLER. XIM for the WIN.. If they don't implement this"keybard support", we will have to goto a hardware soluion and have an unfair advantage over the players, because controllers use aim bots..imagine the headshot count...oh makes me warm and fuzzy inside.
Nashor Arkkenclaid Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2012.07.18 20:56:00 - [627] - Quote Lots of people don't seem to understand that people still have a way around it. KB/M on consoles exist, be it a device that converts KB/M input into Sixaxis input, or a program that acts like a Sixaxis and sends KB/M input. If there is no KBM, people will use that instead, and it will in turn create more frustration and finger-pointing among the DS3 userbase, especially when Null-Sec fires up. I said this in a different thread, I'm going to say it again. We can't stop it, Sony won't stop it, (Sony allows third-party controllers and has no policy against unauthorized devices) CCP probably wouldn't stop it (It's too transparent and would cause more problems for skilled legitimate DS3 users then the KB/M users). Ergo, there's no point in arguing over it, because there's a pretty likely chance nothing will be done about it. Not to mention that Alliances that successfully capitalize on these alternatives (if KB/M is scrapped or overnerfed) will create a rather large advantage for that particular alliance, which could in turn hurt the Alliance system and balance of power in EVE, CCP might very well be making it standard so this doesn't become a critical issue when null-sec play starts up. That situation that Longshot Ravenswood described in this post is more likely to become a possibility if only these alternatives existed. (Eg, no native KB/M) (The "alliance advantage and tears" part is what I am talking about.) And I'm pretty sure that said situation would be a godsend for Goonswarm.
Mr514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.07.24 10:50:00 - [628] - Quote Now, there is only one question left. At what time and day is Keyboard and mouse support coming? It is confirm it is coming soon, but when?.. :)
DatFeckinTwat 28	Posted - 2012.07.24 11:59:00 - [629] - Quote I read about 10 pages of this argument before I skipped to the end. KB/M support will most probably be for communication with other players and menu navigation. Nobody likes to spent time inputting words via the controller and i'm pretty sure, that, with all the future menu choices a mouse and Hot key system would be appreciated by most console users. Remember, this is a console game first and foremost. It is designed for console players to play. Navigating multiple menu's and written communication is a chore via Sixaxis. I personally welcome the choice of keyboard and mouse for these purposes. KB/M gameplay WILL ruin the experience for PS3 users and ultimately result in Dust becoming a costly experiment gone wrong for CCP. If you disagree, feel free to kill me on the battlefield. Not on the Forum.
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.07.24 12:14:00 - [630] - Quote and again the playstation gen go wild about controllers. truth is they s*** , like a kiddie to a candy pop. you HAVE to cater for both keyboard and controller. if your good at keyboard and the enemy with controller who cares your playing the game. just because i have a full qwerty set keyboard does not mean i have an advantage. i just use a different form of input device. does that make me super uber pro gamer , NO why should it. when that controller goes awol ( we know sony controllers are not exactly brill, they have problems check the interwebs) mid fight, would you not say " thank you ccp " under your breath as you hook up a bluetooth/wired kb/m and get back to helping your corp/team/alliance ? yes you would so HTFU headset or wired or bluetooth ? controller / move / keyboard or wheel they all valid human interface input and output devices lets not forget a console is really a cut down version of a pc, just cheaper and mass produced



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