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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8682
   |
Posted - 2014.05.22 14:14:00 -
[601] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:CCP says that they want to make EVE: Legion special and unique, but their actions tell another story.
Help me out here, guys, what's the word for someone who says one thing but does another? Hippogryph? So asking for a lot of feedback, having a plan set up, moving to a less restrictive platform, redesigning a lot of stuff, getting more devs to work on the project, and updating their engine doesn't seem to you as trying to make it special? No, no it doesn't. Feedback? Plans? Redesigns? Engine updates? Are these supposed to be novel in the game industry? Why are you trying to derail this thread and trying so hard to fight over this? Whether or not CCP is or not trying to make Legion special, something that's highly opinion based, is irrelevant to this thread.
I agree.
If people don't feel like doing anything at all except just derail threads for the sake of just derailing it, then what's the point?
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Ulysses Knapse
Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm
1671
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:14:00 -
[602] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:The-Errorist wrote:Ulysses Knapse wrote:CCP says that they want to make EVE: Legion special and unique, but their actions tell another story.
Help me out here, guys, what's the word for someone who says one thing but does another? Hippogryph? So asking for a lot of feedback, having a plan set up, moving to a less restrictive platform, redesigning a lot of stuff, getting more devs to work on the project, and updating their engine doesn't seem to you as trying to make it special? No, no it doesn't. Feedback? Plans? Redesigns? Engine updates? Are these supposed to be novel in the game industry? Why are you trying to derail this thread and trying so hard to fight over this? Whether or not CCP is or not trying to make Legion special, something that's highly opinion based, is irrelevant to this thread.
The ironic thing is that by criticizing me for derailing the thread, you yourself are derailing the thread even more.
Why not try to get back on-topic instead of continuing the vicious cycle, eh Errorist?
Besides, I wasn't even trying to derail the thread. You stated your arguments for how CCP was making the game special, and I refuted them. If anything, it was you who tried to derail the thread by bringing up things outside the context of the progression system even though I was talking mostly in the context of the progression system.
I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
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Auorra
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:27:00 -
[603] - Quote
I'm new to EVE Online as well as new to DUST 514.
I'm a little concerned at starting a new game only to hear that it's going to be shut down. I'm not a huge fan of FPS's on the PC because I cannot afford to buy the joysticks and extras needed to really play the games. I don't have a PS Move. But it would appear to be something of great aid to an FPS on consoles.
I guess what I am asking is if it worth investing my time any further in DUST. I don't want to play a game that is going to be yanked away in a few months. Nor do I want to put any money in to it for AUR for the same reason. I'm hoping for an official CCP person to respond to this. I'm well aware of what players are going to tell me. However colorfully they do so.
If you are looking for feedback on this new Legion game, I can only say one thing: if you are going to include tutorials, you need to make them more new player friendly. The EVE franchise as a whole is not very kind to new players and can really be improved in how and what it teaches.
Hoping for an answer back.
If only I knew it required you to buy a skill before you could actually hit your target...
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byte modal
95
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:04:00 -
[604] - Quote
Auorra wrote:I'm new to EVE Online as well as new to DUST 514.
I'm a little concerned at starting a new game only to hear that it's going to be shut down. I'm not a huge fan of FPS's on the PC because I cannot afford to buy the joysticks and extras needed to really play the games. I don't have a PS Move. But it would appear to be something of great aid to an FPS on consoles.
I guess what I am asking is if it worth investing my time any further in DUST. I don't want to play a game that is going to be yanked away in a few months. Nor do I want to put any money in to it for AUR for the same reason. I'm hoping for an official CCP person to respond to this. I'm well aware of what players are going to tell me. However colorfully they do so.
If you are looking for feedback on this new Legion game, I can only say one thing: if you are going to include tutorials, you need to make them more new player friendly. The EVE franchise as a whole is not very kind to new players and can really be improved in how and what it teaches.
Hoping for an answer back.
You're going to get different answers depending on the context of those willing to reply to this. Not sure it's the right thread though, to be honest as the conversation can easily shift off to this very weighted topic instead of the OP. You might find more conversations like this on the DUST514 General Discussions, as opposed to the LEGION General Discussions here.
With that said though, it really depends on your perspective and how willing you are to consider other perspectives. My PS3 retail games general cost $20-60US and last me 30-45 days average before I am bored. Using that for my point of reference, I have zero problem playing DUST and even buying AUR from time to time to keep me stocked on the gear and boosters that I like. I've spent a bit over $100US here, and have been playing for nearly 2 years. I think that's a more than fair return on investment. Especially considering I coulddrop $20 for a 2-hour movie with popcorn and a Coke.
Are boosters worth it? Again, it depends on how you want to look at it. For me, I use the boosters to compensate for my lack of time to give to the game---time that if not at work, might be spent grinding SP to reach whatever suit or item to help my game or to expand my capabilities. AUR boosters help me reach that state just a bit faster, so for me being able to gain access to that last CK.0 is worth it to me.
I'm not looking long term. I just want to fit a good weapon, some mods, and a good cloak. Hitting that was my goal, so for me the value spent (time and money) was well spent. Other players may consider their investment to pay off years later. Again though, it comes down to time-in compared to cost, compared to the cost of relative forms of entertainment. How many hours of fun am I getting out of whatever cash I'm willing to drop? How many hours of entertainment in the here-and-now are you getting? Find your limits and go from there.
At this point you really have to look past all the potential hype that DUST was trying to bank on and play the game to enjoy it for what it is now, not down the road. Hey, I still play Chrono Trigger from time to time, or DUNE on my old Genesis EMU. Neither of those have a future either. Just my $0.02.
All the best...
- me.
Irony: Post #35
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8687
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Posted - 2014.05.23 02:18:00 -
[605] - Quote
It's been a while already.
@CCP Z
What's the news so far in regards to posting the full details (graphs, powerpoints and all) of the skill tree you have planned for us? When is it coming out? Many of us posted out details of what we think it should be. Now it's your turn.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
1724
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Posted - 2014.05.23 21:11:00 -
[606] - Quote
I'd just like to bring this up for your consideration.
It's got some pretty good ideas generated from it. Might be helpful.
I am part shovel, part man, full scout, and a little bit special.
Official Time Lord of the Scout Community
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1359
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Posted - 2014.05.24 08:11:00 -
[607] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:It's been a while already.
@CCP Z
What's the news so far in regards to posting the full details (graphs, powerpoints and all) of the skill tree you have planned for us? When is it coming out? Many of us posted out details of what we think it should be. Now it's your turn.
EDIT: For the record, I'm not asking for such details just for the sake of criticizing it. Far from it, I'm just saying that perhaps by showing the skill tree you're working on it might help alleviate the confusion that we see here in the forums and hopefully answer the questions that were left unanswered since the progression presentation at Fanfest 2014. We are obviously trying to work with you here to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible so it's only fair that you work with us as well.
Thank you.
https://twitter.com/ccp_z/status/470032103636082689
He's been working on the monitization this week (busy man).
Remember, progression, monitization and the player market are all linked in legion.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
8701
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 15:15:00 -
[608] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:It's been a while already.
@CCP Z
What's the news so far in regards to posting the full details (graphs, powerpoints and all) of the skill tree you have planned for us? When is it coming out? Many of us posted out details of what we think it should be. Now it's your turn.
EDIT: For the record, I'm not asking for such details just for the sake of criticizing it. Far from it, I'm just saying that perhaps by showing the skill tree you're working on it might help alleviate the confusion that we see here in the forums and hopefully answer the questions that were left unanswered since the progression presentation at Fanfest 2014. We are obviously trying to work with you here to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible so it's only fair that you work with us as well.
Thank you. https://twitter.com/ccp_z/status/470032103636082689He's been working on the monitization this week (busy man). Remember, progression, monitization and the player market are all linked in legion.
Thanks.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
123
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Posted - 2014.05.25 15:41:00 -
[609] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2169542#post2169542 PDF (Below Link): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7OE1mczZ3RHduX180TU1MMEEzeW9LaU4yWDM0/edit?usp=sharingPokey Dravon wrote:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7OE1mczZ3RHduX180TU1MMEEzeW9LaU4yWDM0/edit?usp=sharing
Please view PDF above at full zoom so all text is visible.
Recent discussion has heavily been focused on the proposed ideas for the Skill System in EVE: Legion.
Development feels that the current system is too complicated for the target audience, and has suggested a simplified system to make things easier for new players to understand. I however feel that simplifying the system excessively betrays the freedom of gameplay that is New Eden, and that the primary issue lies in the presentation of the system and not the system itself. The above PDF presents and interface designed to make Skilling easy for new players, while maintaining the depth of the skill system for veteran players. ...
I'd love to hear some dev feedback on this. If the goal is simplifying the NPE, is there any concern that Pokey's suggestion doesn't serve that goal adequately? Does CCP Z perceive any downside to Pokey's suggestion? I can't think of any downside. Its fantastic.
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2415
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 17:33:00 -
[610] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2169542#post2169542 PDF (Below Link): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7OE1mczZ3RHduX180TU1MMEEzeW9LaU4yWDM0/edit?usp=sharingPokey Dravon wrote:https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Pqc0ScXKN7OE1mczZ3RHduX180TU1MMEEzeW9LaU4yWDM0/edit?usp=sharing
Please view PDF above at full zoom so all text is visible.
Recent discussion has heavily been focused on the proposed ideas for the Skill System in EVE: Legion.
Development feels that the current system is too complicated for the target audience, and has suggested a simplified system to make things easier for new players to understand. I however feel that simplifying the system excessively betrays the freedom of gameplay that is New Eden, and that the primary issue lies in the presentation of the system and not the system itself. The above PDF presents and interface designed to make Skilling easy for new players, while maintaining the depth of the skill system for veteran players. ... I'd love to hear some dev feedback on this. If the goal is simplifying the NPE, is there any concern that Pokey's suggestion doesn't serve that goal adequately? Does CCP Z perceive any downside to Pokey's suggestion? I can't think of any downside. Its fantastic.
Of course he does, as it's better than his idea, and whatever his idea is is always right. After all, he has numbers 
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Magpie Raven
ZionTCD
Top Men.
434
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Posted - 2014.05.27 02:46:00 -
[611] - Quote
Likes
- Removal of Tiers: Yes! yes! yes! Ive never been a fan of the tier system. In my opinion it causes many of the issues Dust 514 has with balance, and protostomping. You just cant pit someone rocking Proto gear that does more damage along with boosted stats due to skills against someone using Basic and expect it to be fun for everyone. Its also a main reason why people get frustrated and quit
- Addition of generic non-racial dropsuits: Very cool idea. I am always in favor of more cool looking toys. I'll do a post about my ideas on them later
- Making it easier to understand: Very good. It can be intimidating and confusing for first time players. And mistakes are common even with older players
- Increasing the ability to specialize: Specializations beyond "Caldari Assault" is always good. Especially if they will be useful and cool, not just filler to lengthen the tree and as an SP sink.
- Meta level matchmaking: Great idea! I suggested this idea months ago but it never got anywhere on the forums. Maybe you guys saw it, or maybe not. Either way I approve
Dislikes and why
Removal of the 1-5 level system: Removing this system is just a part of the dumbing down problem Im seeing. And the resulting changes to accommodate a simple "unlock once and im done" process, I don't think many people will like.
"Roles" locking skills/items into certain trees: Please just no. If I, as a Caldari Assault player, want to put armor plates on then I should be able to. I should not be forced to go down the Gallente tree just so I can unlock plates. Or if I want to be a scout with a Mass Driver. Don't force me to train Logistic skills just so I can get that weapon.
Permanent Dropsuits: This goes against everything New Eden stands for. Everything should have a price and everything can be lost. When I heard this I kinda screamed in my head "NOOoooo. Why? That makes no sense"
Overall sense of "dumbing it down": This is just the overall feeling Im getting from the info that Ive heard. In this game players enjoy the complexity, and having a long term goal to reach. Not the instant gratification and simplicity found in BF and COD. I agree it needs to be easier to understand, and made more accessible, but I fear its being gone about the wrong way.
Possible Alternative Solutions
1. Removing the 1-5 system is a mistake I think. I know you want to remove tiers but leveling skills is also how we get our bonuses and unlock specializations. Does this mean you plan to give a flat one time bonus when something is skilled into? Or are bonuses going away? Instead why not give certain items multiple prerequisites? For example to use the Mass driver requires Light Weaponry at lvl 4, Projectile Tech at lvl 3, and Explosives at lvl 1. This way we can keep our bonuses and the levels still serve a purpose
2. Please do not "lock" certain items into Role Trees. Things need to be kept separate in the Weaponry, Dropsuits, Module, and Vehicle Trees. It is important that it be made clear what skills are useful for what roles and to try and minimize player mistakes but it should not be done by forcing players down specific trees. Instead do it through educating players and through certificate systems.
3. I really do understand what you want here. But I think it is unnecessary. Ive tried thinking of ways it could work and ways that it could be changed to achieve the desired effect but I cant think of anything. The only thing stopping a player from using his coolest new suit would be funding. So why not just keep dropsuits cheap? Let them become expensive through modules
4. Everyone agrees that changes need to be made so that the game is easier to understand and be made more accessible to the normal, causal player. But dont forget about your core player base. The complexity and higher level thinking is what attracts and holds alot of player. It shouldn't be made super complicated but don't dumb it down all in the name of trying to appeal to a certain crowd of players. Because in the long run they wont stick around. As soon as the next BF, COD, or Halo comes out they will all jump ship to play those games. Keep it enjoyable for us guys who play EVE or who wish they could but lack the time or patience to. |
Luk Manag
of Terror
TRE GAFFEL
535
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 12:59:00 -
[612] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Feedback on Progression I like a lot the sidegrades idea and that is something that our Design Team is currently looking at (more or less modules, different weapon types, different abilities like being able to hack or not ...)
It seems like a long time since you posted any Project Legion updates.
In response to your comments a week and a half ago... If you are going to deploy gameplay breaking customization - trade hacking ability for extra armor reps or whatever - then we need a spawn screen with a list of who is deployed, and what kind of kits they are using. I would prefer a graphical readout, but a spawn screen spreadsheet would also work. Useful information would include numbers and types of suits, and how many have the ability to hack an objective. If I can see that the whole team has spawned in with their non-hacking heavy suits, I can then pull out my hacking suit.
As a follow up to this request, don't assume the role specialization rewards will be sufficient to keep everyone from training multiple roles. Either the benefits are so great and expensive (SP sinks) we actually stick with our one role, or they are hardly worth the extra trivial 5% bonus (n00b friendly) and we skill up multiple roles. You can't have it both ways, so I expect we will see a lot of mercs train multiple roles and fits, and we could randomly end up on a team of non-hacking heavies (without a spawn screen report).
There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
Caps and Mercs
508
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Posted - 2014.05.27 13:33:00 -
[613] - Quote
Dont worry man, they have magic numbers.
Design team wouldn-¦t screw the game up making it like similar more structured with larger public games, and the company wouldn-¦t make a PR fumble of ignoring internal advice and announcing something that would change the rules to the point of allienating the existing playerbase in a event to said players.
It-¦s all cool, they have their **** together. |
Angeal Wolfbane
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2014.05.27 18:08:00 -
[614] - Quote
Okay. Let me make something clear to all of you. I would like CCP to answer each of these comments to prove to me that they really care and are not trying to steal our time we put into DUST 514.
Number 1: This supposed game "Project Legion" has not even been green lighted yet. So why are all of you putting so much hope into this game that is not even in the making.
Number 2: CCP you are completely ignoring DUST 514 and have literally spat upon the console players at Fanfest. Although that it is true that DUST 514 could have more potential on a PC platform, however, many of the beta players are angered because the company of CCP have totally abandoned us and got our hopes up from the very beginning and crushed it with this supposed "Project Legion". If you really care CCP, you would have at least added more land to Planetary Conquest and also gave us a player market to at least show that your loyal to your player base which has decreased rapidly. Oh, and you have also lost the respect of many EVE players because of your little stunt at FanFest.
Number 3: We are all getting tired of the word "IF". YOU HEAR ME CCP WE ARE TIRED OF IF! How do you expect people to be calm on the forums by giving us assumptions and guesses about what will happen in "Project Legion". If you all really want to save your franchise and if you really want to save your player base, which is hanging on by a thread, you better give us some real evidence, facts, updates to dust, and a date for "Project Legion" or you and this supposed new game of yours will fall.
I WANT ANSWERS! NOT ONLY FOR MYSELF, BUT FOR THE MANY PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY YOUR COMPANY! IF YOU ALL REALLY WANT TO PROVE YOURSELVES AS GAME DEVELOPERS ANSWER MY NUMBER OF PROBLEMS IF YOU DARE! THEN WILL SEE JUST HOW GREAT YOUR PEOPLE ARE!
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byte modal
96
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Posted - 2014.05.27 21:25:00 -
[615] - Quote
Angeal Wolfbane wrote:Okay. Let me make something clear to all of you. I would like CCP to answer each of these comments to prove to me that they really care and are not trying to steal our time we put into DUST 514.
Number 1: This supposed game "Project Legion" has not even been green lighted yet. So why are all of you putting so much hope into this game that is not even in the making.
Number 2: CCP you are completely ignoring DUST 514 and have literally spat upon the console players at Fanfest. Although that it is true that DUST 514 could have more potential on a PC platform, however, many of the beta players are angered because the company of CCP have totally abandoned us and got our hopes up from the very beginning and crushed it with this supposed "Project Legion". If you really care CCP, you would have at least added more land to Planetary Conquest and also gave us a player market to at least show that your loyal to your player base which has decreased rapidly. Oh, and you have also lost the respect of many EVE players because of your little stunt at FanFest.
Number 3: We are all getting tired of the word "IF". YOU HEAR ME CCP WE ARE TIRED OF IF! How do you expect people to be calm on the forums by giving us assumptions and guesses about what will happen in "Project Legion". If you all really want to save your franchise and if you really want to save your player base, which is hanging on by a thread, you better give us some real evidence, facts, updates to dust, and a date for "Project Legion" or you and this supposed new game of yours will fall.
I WANT ANSWERS! NOT ONLY FOR MYSELF, BUT FOR THE MANY PLAYERS THAT HAVE BEEN BETRAYED BY YOUR COMPANY! IF YOU ALL REALLY WANT TO PROVE YOURSELVES AS GAME DEVELOPERS ANSWER MY NUMBER OF PROBLEMS IF YOU DARE! THEN WILL SEE JUST HOW GREAT YOUR PEOPLE ARE!
"We" is a relative term here.
Hey, I've made my pissy-mood rib nudges all in this thread, but even with that I still did so while remaining on point to the OP, or at least to the general discussion taking place at the point of my comment. Mostly though, I showed respect.
To get to your points:
1. We have hope because whether it is made or not, it is an interesting thought exercise to share ideas with other players of similar interests and to, from time to time, see dev acknowledgments. Or at the very least find arguments against said ideas. Excitement comes in the potential that DUST alluded to. Frustration comes in the poor decisions on execution. Note, please, that I refer to management, not the dev staff. I work a day job where I wouldn't dare do on my own what we put out here at the office. Sadly, I know too well that decisions are usually made in a vacuum by those higher-ups that stumbled into a position of matter. It's not my work, technically, but the best work that I can provide given the conditions set around me. DUST showed potential, but was mismanaged (IMHO) and some really odd choices were made. Excitement returns knowing that if there will be continued development, it will done on a platform that 1) is better suited for the vision that is, and 2) is simply more familiar.
2. You've missed the boat by a few weeks. Go back to DUST GD and necro a few hundred posts that have already stated more eloquently or more trollery (take your pick) than what you are trying to retread here. Speaking as an EVE player, CCP still keeps my respect over all. Sure, I'm disappointed with how FF played out. I would assume many were. I can't speak for them, nor can you speak for me. Regardless, frustration over a singular event is petty given how long EVE has existed and how far it has evolved. As an EVE player, I get it. As a gamer in general, I can respect that. As an empathetic human being well past emo-riddled puberty, I can relate to making mistakes, attempting understanding, and offering forgiveness. If I were to judge everyone, every entity or group on poor execution, well, that would be a sad and lonely little world.
3. We? Hey, I get the frustration. Again, it was all over the DUST GD not long ago. You're preaching to the choir, though we've all heard the sermon a few times now. Most of us have put down the pitchforks and torches and accepted reality. It's really a better place to be. Regardless of what comes, I'm not the only one who actually enjoys playing the game. I will continue to do so until they unplug her. Yeah, there are things that infuriate me, but ultimately it's their game to develop or to burn. I paid money to play and I got my entertainment from it---money well spent given the cost to entertainment value. Done and done. Taking it day by day. If LEGION comes? Bonus. If not? It was a fun experiment and I'm happy to have been part.
regarding the ALLCAP section: wrong thread, wrong forum. Sorry =\
In through the nose... out through the mouth... slowly.
- me.
Irony: Post #35
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Angeal Wolfbane
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:13:00 -
[616] - Quote
I'm sorry that you misunderstood me. I want more answers about this new supposed game that they say is in the making. I wouldpike for them to give us more answers and qunit these if statements. Its when they say, " if this game is part promising" shows me that they have no support or faith in their game. They have a lot of trust to when back if Project Legion is going to work. Because they slapped every DUST player in the face and that infuriates me.
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byte modal
97
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Posted - 2014.05.28 05:50:00 -
[617] - Quote
Angeal Wolfbane wrote:I'm sorry that you misunderstood me. I want more answers about this new supposed game that they say is in the making. I wouldpike for them to give us more answers and qunit these if statements. Its when they say, " if this game is part promising" shows me that they have no support or faith in their game. They have a lot of trust to when back if Project Legion is going to work. Because they slapped every DUST player in the face and that infuriates me.
Fair enough. But understand that they are devs. No matter how much they each may want to promise something, or hint at what they intend to do, it's really not up to them but the higher-ups I would feel.
While this may not be exactly what you are looking for, it is a good thread full of good back and forth of dev tests and ideas. Maybe you can find something inspiring there to help rebuild your faith? Link here
All the best.
- me.
Irony: Post #35
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Angeal Wolfbane
The Last of DusT.
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2014.05.28 13:30:00 -
[618] - Quote
Okay, I will go along with this for now. Hopefully they don't screw with us down the road.
Now I will give some of my insight on what would be cool to see in DUST:
More interaction with with EVE players:
Instead of our clones going to a clone station and awaken in an awaiting body there lets have another way just in case.
For example, lets say they make it where Corporations in EVE Legion only have the power to provide a CRU to the planets district. However, lets say the corporation doesn't have a lot of money to do this. That's when they turn to the EVE players battle cruisers that can transport troops across the galaxy and deliver them to the planet. In addition, this can also prove dangerous to both EVE and DUST Characters because if the cruiser that the Mercenaries are on blows up, then lets just say that that cruiser better of been a decoy LOL ( Hint: DUST players could also have their own cannons on EVE ships so that they can fight too in space to prevent their EVE allies annihilation).
Tell me what you guys think, because I think this would be really cool to see in EVE LEGION.  |
byte modal
97
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Posted - 2014.05.28 13:52:00 -
[619] - Quote
I'll be honest. I think a lot of EVE players at one point or another have fantasized about having player-controlled crews on board in just such a scenario that you describe. That and being able to set foot on a planet's surface. While technically the EVE pilot cannot, DUST was a huge and happy compromise---at least for me. Let's see what LEGION has in store...
I think your post would get more attention though in the LEGION General Discussion forums here. This thread is mostly about discussion of skills and player progression/leveling. I'm afraid it may just get swallowed up here =(
Also, near the end of that thread I linked in my first reply to you, there was a conversation going on about how a LEGION merc would travel from Point A to B for battles. Mostly, it was about the battle finder system, but I think some people were commenting how they would like to see it realized. You might get attention there too with the idea. I still think your own post would get the most.
Either way, good luck and thanks for the conversation 
- me.
Irony: Post #35
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CCP Z
C C P
C C P Alliance
127
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:36:00 -
[620] - Quote
Hey guys,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. The current focus is on making the Market, so I was really busy!
Let's start with answering some questions, and again, sorry if I missed yours but ... 31 pages ...
Quote: He must be trying to derive a substantial amount of income from respecs - and all respec discussion
The primary goal of a respec system was more to allow people who made a mistake to correct it than to make money out of it. I did not foresee that it will create such a big debate :) I will get back to our design team to work on it.
That's where we have to stop guys. That is not constructive AT ALL! We did a survey, we have our results, just trust me on that. If we start questioning that kind of things, it will be impossible to have a good conversation.
Quote: Just to reiterate fully however, once unlocked those weapons can be used in any fit/with any suit so regardless of race or role correct? (with the possible exception of special cases such has Heavy Weapons)
Yes and yes again. We are keeping all the functionalities we currently have in DUST, the tree example you saw in my presentation is a GEAR UNLOCK tree, so once we unlock one piece of equipment, you can use it the same way it si in DUST right now.
I agree with all of you guys on that. Our current NPE is bad so we are working on a new and much better one. This will solve a lot of the complexity issues we are seeing in the game right now. Overall Progression still is much more than just NPE.
Right now our Progression system is the center of our Economy Flows. As CCP_Rouge said during his presentation, we want a Player Driven Economy, where you loot your gear and then sell it to other players. This Progression will be the base on how loot will be distributed, on how the overall economy will work.
I understand what some of you said: it is against some ideas we have in new Eden. I still think that we are doing that for the greater good. Not owning anything in a game is conter-intuitive for many people. It does not change anything on the ISK sink they were, we will just have to adjust other sinks.
Quote: Natus Nobilis NFS World Progression System
No, we are not getting that Progression. We all know that Legion Progression will be much deeper, much more interesting and a lot more integrated in the Core Experience.
I will go through all the design that some of you worked on and discuss them on the different thread.
Thanks again for your feedback, it is helping us a lot!
Z
Monetization and Progression Producer
-CCP Z
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
5842
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Posted - 2014.05.29 03:09:00 -
[621] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:Hey guys,
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. The current focus is on making the Market, so I was really busy!
Let's start with answering some questions, and again, sorry if I missed yours but ... 31 pages ...
To combat the general feeling that player's have - that weapons/modules will be locked behind roles - are you interested in providing ways to jump directly to what they want, within moderation? I can understand the mutual dislike for having to go through an entire role just to get a certain weapon that I like.
Another consideration is how much SP all of this will cost? How hard will it be for me to specialize in, say, Assaults and then have to go through the Logistics tree to unlock 'x' weapon? This sort of thing matters on a play-time scale, it probably shouldn't take me weeks/months to unlock a particular weapon locked behind a role.
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
10963
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Posted - 2014.05.29 09:06:00 -
[622] - Quote
Do basic frames exist in legion?
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1366
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Posted - 2014.05.29 09:23:00 -
[623] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:Hey guys, Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. The current focus is on making the Market, so I was really busy! I agree with all of you guys on that. Our current NPE is bad so we are working on a new and much better one. This will solve a lot of the complexity issues we are seeing in the game right now. Overall Progression still is much more than just NPE. Right now our Progression system is the center of our Economy Flows. As CCP_Rouge said during his presentation, we want a Player Driven Economy, where you loot your gear and then sell it to other players. This Progression will be the base on how loot will be distributed, on how the overall economy will work. Thanks again for your feedback, it is helping us a lot! Z
This is the part I'm particularly looking forward to Z. I know you explained a lot of it when we were in The English Pub when we first met. Some of the more salient points remain a little foggy due to the multiple tequilas that CCP Praetorian 'forced' me to drink but I do remember being terribly excited about what you were hoping to achieve.
So a bit more about that when you can please. Cheers.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2598
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Posted - 2014.05.29 11:51:00 -
[624] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:Hey guys, Sorry it took me so long to get back to you. The current focus is on making the Market, so I was really busy! Let's start with answering some questions, and again, sorry if I missed yours but ... 31 pages ... Quote: He must be trying to derive a substantial amount of income from respecs - and all respec discussion The primary goal of a respec system was more to allow people who made a mistake to correct it than to make money out of it. I did not foresee that it will create such a big debate :) I will get back to our design team to work on it.
Isn't the whole point of redesigning how the skillsystem works in Legion so mistakes aren't as sever anymore? You told us something about maybe a week of skilltime to be relatively efficient with a new role. All the more reason to NOT have a respec system at all.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2598
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Posted - 2014.05.29 11:56:00 -
[625] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:I understand what some of you said: it is against some ideas we have in new Eden. I still think that we are doing that for the greater good. Not owning anything in a game is conter-intuitive for many people. It does not change anything on the ISK sink they were, we will just have to adjust other sinks.
With the new rarity system: Why should I use a normal dropsuit over a rare suit when all dropsuits are BPO? Isn't that just turning the problem we had in Dust around? Actually it will probably make it worse. In Dust everybody used militia or std gear most of the time, unless they were going into important battles or ran with a squad.
With the Dropsuit BPOs now everybody will only use rare suits ll the time, never going back to anything worse.
Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
2004
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Posted - 2014.05.29 13:18:00 -
[626] - Quote
CCP Z wrote:I understand what some of you said: it is against some ideas we have in new Eden. I still think that we are doing that for the greater good. Not owning anything in a game is conter-intuitive for many people. It does not change anything on the ISK sink they were, we will just have to adjust other sinks.
If we get an Eve-style charaction creation process where we see ourselves outside of our Dropsuits and you drive home the idea of buying gear, it will only be counter-intuitive to the morons (which, lets be honest, do we really want the morons in Legion?).
Hell, you could even give us the option to go into battle without a dropsuit. It would be a sub-par setup (1 LW, 1 SA, 1G, 1E) and only available in certain situations (non-hostile environment temperate planets), but it could be an option and it would be a good reminder that we only own that which we spend our AUR/Isk on (though we only own the quantities that we purchase).
Stand apart from the other **** shooters on the market, if we wanted to play them, we would be playing them rather than Dust/Legion. There is no reason that we need to have our hands held in this way and IMHO it is the top of a slippery slope through the "BPO-ification" of all items because some simpletons ***** and moan about being consumers within the game and how they don't want to have to math.
If only you'd commit to ensuring your players understand how and why Dust/Legion stands apart you could forget this process of oversimplification.
Minmatar Weapons Specialist
Explosives Connoisseur
Logi for Hire
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Godin Thekiller
shadows of 514
2481
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Posted - 2014.05.30 00:02:00 -
[627] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:CCP Z wrote:I understand what some of you said: it is against some ideas we have in new Eden. I still think that we are doing that for the greater good. Not owning anything in a game is conter-intuitive for many people. It does not change anything on the ISK sink they were, we will just have to adjust other sinks. If we get an Eve-style charaction creation process where we see ourselves outside of our Dropsuits and you drive home the idea of buying gear, it will only be counter-intuitive to the morons (which, lets be honest, do we really want the morons in Legion?). Hell, you could even give us the option to go into battle without a dropsuit. It would be a sub-par setup (1 LW, 1 SA, 1G, 1E) and only available in certain situations (non-hostile environment temperate planets), but it could be an option and it would be a good reminder that we only own that which we spend our AUR/Isk on (though we only own the quantities that we purchase). Stand apart from the other **** shooters on the market, if we wanted to play them, we would be playing them rather than Dust/Legion. There is no reason that we need to have our hands held in this way and IMHO it is the top of a slippery slope through the "BPO-ification" of all items because some simpletons ***** and moan about being consumers within the game and how they don't want to have to math. If only you'd commit to ensuring your players understand how and why Dust/Legion stands apart you could forget this process of oversimplification.
Nailed it.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Natu Nobilis
DUST BRASIL S.A
509
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Posted - 2014.05.30 04:46:00 -
[628] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:CCP Z wrote:I understand what some of you said: it is against some ideas we have in new Eden. I still think that we are doing that for the greater good. Not owning anything in a game is conter-intuitive for many people. It does not change anything on the ISK sink they were, we will just have to adjust other sinks. If we get an Eve-style charaction creation process where we see ourselves outside of our Dropsuits and you drive home the idea of buying gear, it will only be counter-intuitive to the morons (which, lets be honest, do we really want the morons in Legion?). Hell, you could even give us the option to go into battle without a dropsuit. It would be a sub-par setup (1 LW, 1 SA, 1G, 1E) and only available in certain situations (non-hostile environment temperate planets), but it could be an option and it would be a good reminder that we only own that which we spend our AUR/Isk on (though we only own the quantities that we purchase). Stand apart from the other **** shooters on the market, if we wanted to play them, we would be playing them rather than Dust/Legion. There is no reason that we need to have our hands held in this way and IMHO it is the top of a slippery slope through the "BPO-ification" of all items because some simpletons ***** and moan about being consumers within the game and how they don't want to have to math. If only you'd commit to ensuring your players understand how and why Dust/Legion stands apart you could forget this process of oversimplification.
This, this this.
And it's not against "some ideas in new Eden" it's against ALL New Eden stands for.
Using BPO for unlimited withou costa its Aldo another bad thing when trying to integrante the games. BPO means i only hav+¬ to worry about production costs withiut worrying about copy licenses.
Everything but militia stuff should have a production cost. |
steadyhand amarr
shadows of 514
3138
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:00:00 -
[629] - Quote
Queation how are u going to solve a bad run leaves you with nothing and the player quits the game.
Legion IS NOT EVE please stop trying to make it EvE.2 that line of thinking will kill this game just as fast as it killed dust. Shooter fans are not intrested fullstop its great that you guys are but to 80% casual playerbase just wont care. So like it not legion needs to be diffrent and im ready to get militant on that please adjust your mindsets
Dust died because it was too complex for avatage joe who wants to shoot things. Speak to any shooter fan, simple easy to understand reward loops is what keeps us ingaged and a shiny thing to work towords.
Legion will attract a different kind of gamer who tolerate EvEs bull. Yes legion needs to stand out but Its not EvE so stop sourceing EvE on why we cant do things.
(if u dont believe me ask yourself why their are no pure shooter fans left here i think im the only non EvE player here sometimes and i hate EvE because i dont have time to spend weeks and months grinding out a magic number just for some nolife nerd to gank me and set me back to zero)
Ug im going to make a thread on this subject tonight this needs debate or legion will fail just as hard as dust
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
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byte modal
97
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Posted - 2014.05.30 13:49:00 -
[630] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Queation how are u going to solve a bad run leaves you with nothing and the player quits the game.
Legion IS NOT EVE please stop trying to make it EvE.2 that line of thinking will kill this game just as fast as it killed dust. Shooter fans are not intrested fullstop its great that you guys are but to 80% casual playerbase just wont care. So like it not legion needs to be diffrent and im ready to get militant on that please adjust your mindsets
Dust died because it was too complex for avatage joe who wants to shoot things. Speak to any shooter fan, simple easy to understand reward loops is what keeps us ingaged and a shiny thing to work towords.
Legion will attract a different kind of gamer who tolerate EvEs bull. Yes legion needs to stand out but Its not EvE so stop sourceing EvE on why we cant do things.
(if u dont believe me ask yourself why their are no pure shooter fans left here i think im the only non EvE player here sometimes and i hate EvE because i dont have time to spend weeks and months grinding out a magic number just for some nolife nerd to gank me and set me back to zero)
Ug im going to make a thread on this subject tonight this needs debate or legion will fail just as hard as dust
Make the thread, just bother to research your own assumptions before doing so.
Complexity alone didn't kill DUST. The game released to the world as an incomplete and seemingly rushed BETA.
- Imbalance
- Incomplete Racial Dropsuits
- Missing Weapon Classes
- Missing Racial Weapon Variations
- Poor Hit Detection
- Non-standard Skills (some gave bonuses, some unlocked gear, and some of THOSE only unlocked up to level 3)
- Slow Game Speeds
- TTK
- Non-intuitive Game Play (both direct and meta level) Due to ....wait for it.....
- >>> ZERO Explanation of Purpose, Logic, Intent, or Direction/Instruction
- Confusion Between BPO, ISK, and AUR Purchases
- Two DIFFERENT Skill Tree Representations (3, if you want to count all the skills polluting market items)
- Market Screens Polluted with Skill Requirements (visually chaotic and logically intimidating to new players)
- AURUM based market items that appear out of order with the would-be racial "alphabetical" order.
- No ability to see a direct comparison on affects of gear/modules to suits
- LAG
- ProtoStompTheYard
- ZERO reference to or use of Security Space to ensure new player transition
- Lock-Ups and Hard Freezes
- Scotty (or lack there of)
- Removal of Auto-squad to at least nudge new players into the system
.....
I will return to this to complete the thought and to return this diversion back to point lol, but damnit I'm at work and have to do some of that ;) I'll be back though....
Irony: Post #35
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