Adding a dust version of ISIS, certificates, explanations...

That's three layers of extra UI you've just added (which takes resources) and adds more stuff to read through before gaining the clarity you crave.

There is an admission by some that the old system needs 're-done but better' but there is a point I think we can all agree, where there is so much to redo, its actually better to just start again. We've had the current system for over a year and numbers haven't grown.

The new progression system is, quite honestly, a disgrace.

It insults the intelligence of the community.
It dishonors the traditions of New Eden.
It is being implemented in place of things that would actually help the game.
It panders to the dumb who can't understand a game with depth.
It restricts the freedom of the players.

Why would you think that it's a good idea, CCP? Because the old system was bad? That's because you broke it!

The new progression system is, quite honestly, a disgrace.

It insults the intelligence of the community.
It dishonors the traditions of New Eden.
It is being implemented in place of things that would actually help the game.
It panders to the dumb who can't understand a game with depth.
It restricts the freedom of the players.

Why would you think that it's a good idea, CCP? Because the old system was bad? That's because you broke it!

We don't want to be so toxic CCP. We want to help you make a game that people will enjoy for years to come. You have the best opportunity to collaborate with a community that is painfully loyal. Please, guys...seriously.....please...listen to what your community is telling you. We are trying to break down the walls of CCP to create something amazing. Allow that to happen.

They dont gives a rats a$$ im afraid. They only post here to make it seem like they care, so they can use the fact that they "communicate with the players" in marketing.

True but at the same time therd are a lot of positives to the DUST tree, mainly that you can play any role with any weapon pretty quickly, that is a good point about our system that Z wants to take away.

If I want to be a sentinel with Plasma Cannon I can do that very easily, if I want to be a Scout with 2 SMG's I can do that.

Because the skill tree encourages it, legions does not and I don't understand why Z wants it like that.

But there are some secondary benefits to it, which ironically benefit vets! :)
Presently, if you want to be something inventive like a "Sentinel with a Plasma Cannon" you can "do that very easily", but so can everyone else! There's little special about it.

Now imagine if to get that Plasma Cannon you had to figure out that it'd be an interesting combination, and then level up through a side tree you might of (and all the other Sentinels did) ignore.
When you deploy that fit onto the battlefield, you'll be unique! One of only a very small amount of people in New Eden to have figured out that skill path, and one of few who can field that cool combo. :)

While this new Progression is mainly built for easing the experience for new players, it also allows vets to personalize, be clever, and have a use for late game SP (which we need).

CCP Z: I think it would help a lot if you could post an image of how you currently have set up one role.

Obviously not everything is perfect with EVE's system. We are asking for it's layout basically (bonuses on pretty much every skill, trees that has all similar things in them, no forced skills that has nothing to give). Also, ISIS and certificates are tools to help guide someone along with their progress; a check list if you will. That will pretty much always help if the player uses it (and knows what he/she is looking at). Lastly, if they actually thought the newcomers how to actually use the systems, maybe they would understand more frequently rather than being thrown into the deep in, seeing this massive wall of ****, and then saying "**** it, it's too much, I quit.".

I get what you're saying, but I honestly think that that's what everyone here that disagrees with it thinks.

Adding a dust version of ISIS, certificates, explanations...

That's three layers of extra UI you've just added (which takes resources) and adds more stuff to read through before gaining the clarity you crave.

There is an admission by some that the old system needs 're-done but better' but there is a point I think we can all agree, where there is so much to redo, its actually better to just start again. We've had the current system for over a year and numbers haven't grown.

The current progression system in Dust 514 is not complex in itself (it is a simple skill tree with 5 level nodes), but it's the combination of finding gear in the market, then checking prerequisites, then figuring out how much your core skills affect the values you are seeing (and not seeing) on the fitting screen which is daunting.

-snip-

Now honestly, a (potentially) vastly improved NPE is the main benefit from this new system. And IMO, that alone would justify it.

But there are some secondary benefits to it, which ironically benefit vets! :)
Presently, if you want to be something inventive like a "Sentinel with a Plasma Cannon" you can "do that very easily", but so can everyone else! There's little special about it.

Now imagine if to get that Plasma Cannon you had to figure out that it'd be an interesting combination, and then level up through a side tree you might of (and all the other Sentinels did) ignore.
When you deploy that fit onto the battlefield, you'll be unique! One of only a very small amount of people in New Eden to have figured out that skill path, and one of few who can field that cool combo. :)

While this new Progression is mainly built for easing the experience for new players, it also allows vets to personalize, be clever, and have a use for late game SP (which we need).

Yes, this new system introduces limits to what can be done quickly.
But I suspect limiting what can be done quickly will result in more fun for everyone. :)

I donGÇÖt think it is constructive to claim that DUST 514's poor new player retention rate was due to the skill system. While lack of education about the skill and fitting systems may have been one of many contributing factors, we all know that by far the most significant factor in DUST 514's lousy new player retention was the constant and relentless Proto Stopping they experienced on leaving the Academy.

Thankfully Legion will have both PVE and the Meta Level match making to soften this transition, which should make a big difference for new player retention.

This is not to say that we should not try to make the skill system more intuitive and remove frustrating, poorly implemented elements of it, but even with the system we have now, if new players were able to enjoy playing the game in there first few days in their starter suits they would eventually get the skill system and fittings figured out. The important part is not to overwhelm them with too much at one time. If they can go into PVE with a starter suit, without having to allocate any skill points, then they can work at figuring out the skills and fittings at their own pace.

Frustration with the Skill tree comes when they come out of the academy and get stomped into the ground so that they panic and feel forced to figure out the skill and fitting system immediately so they can get those black suits so that they can defend themselves. That is when people get confused, make mistakes, and feel frustrated or overwhelmed.

We need a new player experience which allows them to learn the game at their own pace. The New Player experience in DUST would be like dumping an EVE character into Low Sec on their first day. We need to give Legion players the High Sec experience, and give them the option to go into more dangerous territory when they feel ready.

Kevall, come on man!

It does NOT take longer to add a GUI overlay to a currently existing system than to delete the old system and start from scratch with a completely new system and GUI.

We will offer a Respec Option (which does not exist in DUST 514). More information will come down the line as the projectGÇÖs development progresses.

But there are some secondary benefits to it, which ironically benefit vets! :)
Presently, if you want to be something inventive like a "Sentinel with a Plasma Cannon" you can "do that very easily", but so can everyone else! There's little special about it.

But say, to be a Logi under the current system requires a Logi suit, which means skilling into the specialization.
And there's a massive SP barrier to being able to access the Biotic tree. To make Kinetic Catalyzers tricky to access for Assaults has made them tricky to access for Scouts for whom they're vital.

That's... a lot of skills. I think the number of skills should be kept at a manageable level. EVE does it fairly well.

Also, I don't think your proposed system encourages factional ties very much.

Long thought out counterpoint