DUST Search - Sticky:[DISCUSSION]

All Channels

General Discussions

Sticky:[DISCUSSION] - Progression

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 28 post(s)
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:13:00 - [481] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: It's not for the sake of a few idiots as some as stated, it's for quite a lot of idiots (your terminology there). They've researched and identified with their own numbers short comings in the current system, both in the progression system and the NPE. Questioning the findings of the research because it happens to not agree with your view isn't going to alter the Dev teams trust in its findings either. Besides, I think we can all agree, that nearly everyone on this thread, defending Z or not has highlighted shortcomings in the current system. Very unusually, Z has opened this up to public discussion a lot earlier than they normally would. And he has answered a lot questions already, liked a number of your suggestions, clarified a number points of confusion and explained his thinking on others. Insulting him or questioning his competence is up to you. If I want someone to bend to my way of thinking, I've found that calling them names rarely works. He's still working on it. Its a work in progress. Please consider that. Do you really think that people would quit because of the skill system? LOL click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2030	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:33:00 - [482] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: TrueXer0z wrote: KDR in the game means next to nothing, but WP and ISK efficiency means a lot. When you can field 100k isk on the field and destroy 2 million worth of isk..it should mean something. Same with WPs. If you average 1500+ WP per match is should mean something compared to someone averaging 900-1000 WPs. The only real thing I see KDR showing is the likelyhood of a person draining clone count. But if that person is enabling the team to win by removing high value targets from the field...where is the break away? While to a certain (okay, significant) extent this is true, when I'm playing solo, as I have been doing for a while now, I play ambush solely. And in ambush, KDR = everything. Actually even in pure ambush KDR still isn't everything, or even an accurate directly useful metric. Example 1: A merc in Ambush who dies 10 times kills 5 times and is revived 10 times has a poor KDR but has cost the team 0 clones, has lost 0 ISK, has contributed to squad WP earnings and has depleted some hostile ammunition and time. A merc driven by KDR to insta-bleed who dies even just twice has already cost the team more resources. Example 2: A merc that spends the whole game providing DS deployment, Active scans, nanohives, reps, or any other support activity could easily end up with a KDR of 0.0 while still providing more WP, ISK savings, vicariously contributing to hostile asset destruction et al than a merc who goes 10/0 only killing. Example 3: A merc that goes 2/3 doesn't have a very good KDR but if those 2 kills are against ADS, Mads, or G-Logi and said merc has also been suppressing them the rest of the game that merc contributes more to tactical value, ISK efficiency, et al than many infantry with higher KDR. In conclusion:]/b] KDR is far to vague, it's meaning far to situation and 'blurry', to be a directly useful metric and should be replaced by the array of more specific metrics which it can theoretically represent. It should at the absolute [b]minimum not be used in end of match leaderboards, the current practice of which feeds new players the a host of misconceptions which can cause sub-optimal game play damaging to squad, team, match outcome, and ultimate their own and everyone elses fun as they repeat ineffective actions without understanding why those actions don't bring victory. It is bad pratice to mislead players, and KDR does that. 0.02 ISK Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:37:00 - [483] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. Maken, so there is no T I frames, only T II frames? Huh. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:44:00 - [484] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? Guess you were so angry you completely missed the part where they practically described the system being exactly like this. He said there would only be 1 level to each skill...... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:45:00 - [485] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? Guess you were so angry you completely missed the part where they practically described the system being exactly like this. That's usually what happens in a 23-page thread. EDIT: Woops! 24 pages now. EDIT2: My only concern about the new progression system is that I would be forced into training up a suit I don't want for a weapon that I like. That to me is an even bigger SP sink than what Dust currently has. Not really. Guy said that it would be really easy to get stuff and that most of your SP investment in the early-game would be spent on unlocks, not so much bonuses. I like to think that once you get to the racial bit (since it's Academy > Frame > Role > Racial > Specialization) you're focusing more on fine-tuning and turning your dials than you are setting everything up. Making your playstyle more powerful as opposed to getting stuff for it. What with a system where you don't have to get Dropsuit Command 3 > Amarr Heavy 3 > Amarr Sentinel 1, it seems like it'd be a hell of a lot easier to blaze through to the suit you want and then focus on all the extra stuff. I know a lot of people are saying that "modules/weapons shouldn't be locked behind roles" but honestly, I can't see much of a reason you'd need Profile Dampeners and Myrofibril Stimulants on a Sentinel xD Big problem I see right now is that people are so angry, they're not doing their research/reading to find the answers. I mean, there is a "First Dev Post" button in the upper right and then you can just click on the blue banners to go to the next one =P Z said that getting things would be a lot longer than it was before........... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8636	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:48:00 - [486] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. Some nice ideas there Maken. I do like the notion of the academy skill giving some sort of bonus however the reduction of the training cost modifier reduced is troubling to me as the TCM is required to make longer term specialisation an SP sink for the vets. A reduction in that will reduce the depth of the tree while decreasing its height if you catch my meaning. However, your proposal suffered from the same problem that the current one has, in that its rather daunting to begin with for a new player when they should be encouraged to try as much as possible with no major concerns as to their SP expenditure. Those concerns should come later once they have discovered which role they like and want to specialise in. The game would then begin to offer larger rewards for such specialisation. That's why my proposal included a more in-depth academy so that the new player can try out everything via the academy without investing too much SP into just trial and error. If you help the player better understand the system, then there is hardly a problem in understanding the progression. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:54:00 - [487] - Quote Z, for the game's sake, you're taking in all of this...... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2030	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:02:00 - [488] - Quote CCP Z wrote: 1st batch of answers: Quote: Can whatever system you put in place be change after launch ,like the 3 different trees we had from beta till now in Dust? We are trying to create the best system for Legion, so I would say no. I would respectfully suggest to my fellow gamers that this is why we should be constructively participating in the discussion of Legion right now rather than waiting for it to be greenlit, in beta, et al. Quote: Quote: With a PC game can't you do both the new easy progression and keep the lvl 5 system so we can just get what we want since we know what we want. Yes we could keep the 5 levels. From the studies and the research we made on DUST, people seems to not understand it. ThatGÇÖs why we want to remove it. Do you feel it is necessary to remove all levels of skill progression or simply the 5 level standard? Clearly there were some wasted levels in the current system, and while I enjoy the current system it is evident how such a system could present a barrier to new players. With the progression system presented at Fanfest do you see any room for certain skills to either have more than one level or have offshoots providing additional nodes that would in essence function like further levels of the skill but go only so far as they are actually useful (thus removing the potential for miscalculated SP investment or pressure to shoehorn extra stats into a skill set which has served it's design goal? SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2030	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:03:00 - [489] - Quote pt 2 Quote: Quote: Are the weapons of each dropsuit tree race specific as Gallentee have Assault rifle but no scrambler or rail rifle? No, weapon types will be linked to Role and not necessarily Race. You will end up with 2 different Rail Rifle depending on the race though. Just to reiterate fully however, once unlocked those weapons can be used in any fit/with any suit so regardless of race or role correct? (with the possible exception of special cases such has Heavy Weapons) Quote: Quote: Will electronics and engineering skills still that bring those numbers as cpu and pg still be in the game? Yes Quote: how will you implement passive skills and bonuses? They will be a node to unlock (same as a new weapon, Drop Suit or module) Good to know passive skills and fittings enhancement options are still on the table. SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2030	Posted - 2014.05.17 22:04:00 - [490] - Quote pt 3 CCP Z wrote: Respec will have a gradually increasing cost, so your choices matter Not to be disrespectful but I'm going to continue to be insistent on this point of discussion. Even with increasing costs, especially of those costs only increase gradually, limitless respecs are still limitless and as such all of my prior concerns are still unanswered. If there is a method on offer which theoretically addresses those concerns then I would still like to hear it, but in the absence of that limitless respecs seem to remain a very poor idea. As an aside; the cost in question if such a respec program were ever to ender the game clearly coudl not be in IRL funds or Legion will be swimming in the rocky shoals of P2W. If on the other hand the cost in question is paied in SP itself that would have some potential mitigation however it still fails to sidestep the extra advantage it gives vets over new players. Further I'd like to draw your attention back to my specific questions regarding how respecs will effect the stated goals of your progression system and the NPE. All balance and re-balance concerns aside (which could be a discussion on their own) limitless respecs stifle emergent game play. There is no reason to find a new innovative use for something when you can simply reallocate your massive SP bank into whatever you wish. There is no, or minimal, stable baseline for a meta to develop and draw from. There is no mechanical barrier to 'boom and bust' economic cycles within the game causing market shocks and diminishing meaningful player driven economics. Using EVE as an example (even though EVE:O isn't a direct corollary) if you allowed the same type of respec then characters could allocate to research, mine, produce and then fly their own Titan not only gutting current incentive for social interaction (and thus player retention and emergent game play) but deeply disadvantaging any new players to the game as they will no longer have any niche to fill of value to any "I can do anything with the click of a button" veterans. Lest we be unclear the possible respec costs are as follows; Out of game assets, which would lead Legion into a P2W situation In game assets, which would be no meaningful barrier to vets thus magnifying the degradation respecs cause to the NPE and new player retention. In game SP, which if based on a raw total value punishes players with low SP total more for using the feature than it does those with high. In game SP, which if based on a scaling % value more equally constrains players at all levels but still allows far more flex and leverage to vets who can simply calculate the amount of SP to leave unallocated as the cost of their next respec and bank that amount patch by patch thus still feeding into all market and FotM concerns mentioned previously. Cheers, Cross SupportSP Rollover & an improved Recruting System

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 1991	Posted - 2014.05.17 23:48:00 - [491] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Cross Atu wrote: [quote=Jonny D Buelle][quote=Heinz Doofenshertz][quote=CCP Z] .... Respec & Remap discussion CCP Z and other respec/remap posters... What are your thoughts on introducing an attribute type system into Legion? The attribute mechanic is a tried and true staple of MMO, RPG, and many FPS games. This could be a nice way of increasing depth and choice into the system. The way the EVE system uses attributes to accelerate skill learning (or perhaps in our case skill specific SP) could be a useful start point. Attributes could also be a nice way to have some passive bonuses that are agnostic of suit, role, module introduced. Example...you could build up a "strength / conditioning" type attribute that gave mild buffs to base speed, climbing, jumping, and perhaps lowered armor encumbrance penalty. This would be independent of the traditional Biotics skill branch. You could easily extrapolate for other applicable uses such as weapon accuracy, stamina, accelerated learning of specific skills. Thoughts on applicability to progression in Legion? I brought up Attributes back in Closed Beta. I thought they were a good idea then and I still do. We should get the same Attributes as Eve characters (plus Strength, Dexterity and Stamina for obvious reason). Arzadu Akbar Motherfuckers!!!! Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2315	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:07:00 - [492] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I brought up Attributes back in Closed Beta. I thought they were a good idea then and I still do. We should get the same Attributes as Eve characters (plus Strength, Dexterity and Stamina for obvious reason). Same, and same. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1015	Posted - 2014.05.18 01:53:00 - [493] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I brought up Attributes back in Closed Beta. I thought they were a good idea then and I still do. We should get the same Attributes as Eve characters (plus Strength, Dexterity and Stamina for obvious reason). Same, and same. Seems doable and would give some added depth to things. Curious to here if CCP Z thinks they could be incorporated. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2317	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:04:00 - [494] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I brought up Attributes back in Closed Beta. I thought they were a good idea then and I still do. We should get the same Attributes as Eve characters (plus Strength, Dexterity and Stamina for obvious reason). Same, and same. Seems doable and would give some added depth to things. Curious to here if CCP Z thinks they could be incorporated. He thinks the fools wouldn't get it click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1015	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:05:00 - [495] - Quote One thing i didn't see addressed too much was the concept of Social or even something like Research type skills in Legion. With the advent of salvage missions, PVE, and perhaps mission running then a skill branch similar to Social Skills in EVE. Basically SP unlock or level nodes that generate bonuses to faction standings, ISK / LP payouts, salvage payouts, buffs to dealing with NPC entities. Seems like a skill branch that would assist in emphasizing the financial and PVE aspects of Legion. Also...i think it would go a ways to giving some potential options to give you some enticing options (perhaps down the road) to more sandbox activity than purely shooting players and drones. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2317	Posted - 2014.05.18 02:17:00 - [496] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: One thing i didn't see addressed too much was the concept of Social or even something like Research type skills in Legion. With the advent of salvage missions, PVE, and perhaps mission running then a skill branch similar to Social Skills in EVE. Basically SP unlock or level nodes that generate bonuses to faction standings, ISK / LP payouts, salvage payouts, buffs to dealing with NPC entities. Seems like a skill branch that would assist in emphasizing the financial and PVE aspects of Legion. Also...i think it would go a ways to giving some potential options to give you some enticing options (perhaps down the road) to more sandbox activity than purely shooting players and drones. or pirates, cops, soldiers, religious zealots, zombies, etc. I kinda rounded this into a "other skills that would be odd with this system" as it doesn't fit anywhere tbh........... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
DAMIOS82 WarRavens Final Resolution. 117	Posted - 2014.05.18 09:19:00 - [497] - Quote Personally i would like to see a full view of what CCP Z want's to do to the Skill tree first. I did see the keynotes and imo it is a better step to go with. The current skill system is broken and alott of it is useless and doesn't make sence. Levels for one is something i hate in EVE aswell. If i skill into something i either want to have it or not, i can either use it or not. Offcourse every level gives a better bonus now, but imo i should be based on having better equipment and not bonusses, hence the meta levels (which is completely useless now in dust) . To have permanent dropsuits makes a lott of sence if you want to be able to have cosmetic upgrades and from a roleplaying perspective aswell. I would like to make my suit personall and say this is me, not lose it every 2 seconds after i upgraded it. Having weapons under role specific is a good idea, but then you should make them that they are unique to those suits. meaning if you want an AR type weapon for ass, logi, hvy each would have there own type of AR. Offcourse the rest still needs to be seen and imo change is not bad. Afterall in beta they cried about the skill tree aswell and it all worked out in the end. That beeing said i don't believe you should dumb down the skill tree however. Sure it's a different game then EVE, however it is in the EVE universe and EVE is know for beeing complex. So this should also be reflected in our skill tree, meaning we want more, not less (like skills to enhance the suits(extra module bay) or weapons(scope selection, better magazine). If CCP want to change it all and see how it works out, then fine i have no problem with it, but ad more skills not less. Perhaps even some options for customisation of weapons like i said above.
Hammerhead LandSharkX Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi 31	Posted - 2014.05.18 10:36:00 - [498] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: As an alternative to respecs how do you guys feel about character sales for ISK, with an AUR transaction fee paid by the buyer? That's how eve gets away with not having respecs-but i think that would be hard to migrate to PSN and the like if legion is ever ported. Though if they can build it into the game I'm not against it. Though Starfire Revo makes a good point with: "Wouldn't work as well in a free to play game as there would be little to nothing preventing someone from making 100+ characters and passively letting them skill up." Eve's subscription at least mitigates this tactic and forces these methods to be of a certain quality and value to be worth while. Eve's market also makes this work with the variety of training that is available for trade-rather than having a flat isk/aur rate for character swapping-players can choose how much isk/plex/etc they trade for individually.
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2797	Posted - 2014.05.18 15:10:00 - [499] - Quote Please do not add grind without a purpose. Please keep the monetization to only offer faster progress, and perhaps account wide bonuses (for your alts). As a example to study I recommend CCP Z to look at: https://marvelheroes.com/ This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Shley Ashes Commando Perkone Caldari State 149	Posted - 2014.05.18 15:36:00 - [500] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Days later and I still don't like the concept of this proposed progression system for pretty much every reason people have posted. I'm definitely getting the classic CCP Dust Development vibe of "we're going to do what we want on this with the illusion of feedback." The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? The idea that "there's too much choice" is simply silly. Yes, at first there is a bit too much choice but this can be remedied by a certification system similar to eve's. It can give you an idea of a "vanilla" role and you can go from there. You guys seem so ridiculously deadset on the idea that your players are idiots and it's insulting. Part of the biggest problem of NPE is that they don't know where to put their SP to make a decent build and also that weapons are incredibly imbalanced. We want depth and customization, not progression on rails until you hit end game. Stop trying to reinvent the progression and just fix the problems the current system has and make sure weapons and suits are balanced properly. This... Devs that come from different games judging and changing things they don't understand while telling the community that they, thr community, is wrong in the feedback page. This is not what CCP is about. Ylthis is a complete defilement of 10 years of tried and tested systems not to mention one of the only reasons dust had a fighting chance. Changing the skill system will kill legion and any chance ut has at longevity. Cyrius and Ghaz echo my own view here, I am deeply concerned and if the current Fanfest presentation on progression and the snippets of information that have been laid out so far are anything to go by, then I don't see myself playing Legion, Three things lured me to Dust: 1) I enjoy FPS games 2) Hope - that the game would evolve over time to be as grand as Eve Online 3) A progression system that allowed me to build fit's with more customisation than any other FPS on the market point 3 has now been reduced to that of a standard Role based shooter like BattleField or Call of Duty Kevall Longstride wrote: I'll of course be a strong voice for the players and do everything I can to help them in the CPM or not. But right now, on this issue, I have to be on CCP's side because the long term future of the game is at stake here. If that makes me unpopular so be it. If it loses me your vote, so be it. But I will not back down from what I know to be the right thing to do. you have lost my vote For 21 day EveOnline trial https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=0f1324bf-679c-420a-b7ed-c181423c1369&action=buddy

Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 521	Posted - 2014.05.18 16:39:00 - [501] - Quote I would feel a lot better if the details and research were published. I would love to criticize the PS3 sample set who prove our current progression system will be broken on a PC MMO with actual MMO PvE options. My guess is a lot of things are going to be decided in secret, with a laser focus on profitability. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1664	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:09:00 - [502] - Quote I'm getting tired of this. We played DUST 514 because it was different from other FPS games, not because it was the same. Not sure why CCP seems so keen on removing some of the things that kept DUST 514 alive. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8641	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:45:00 - [503] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I'm getting tired of this. We played DUST 514 because it was different from other FPS games, not because it was the same. Not sure why CCP seems so keen on removing some of the things that kept DUST 514 alive. It's certain at this point that one of the very few things that kept Dust alive was the complexity it offered. What killed it was the lack of understanding that complexity. There were absolutely NO TOOLS in place to aid the player in better understanding the progression system let alone understand the myriad of complex mechanics that were not immediately apparent. No, I'm not talking about the 3rd party tools. I'm talking about in-game tools. 3rd party tools are great but there is no way for the new player to know for certain that those tools exist unless they visit the forums which brings me to my next point. According to Dennie Fleetfoot (since he often gets in touch with CCP) it seems that the vast majority of the players that exist in the game don't really visit the forums... at all. If I recall correctly it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of the player base. That's a huge chunk of the players that don't read the forums at all. That means: 1. They won't know of any of the 3rd party tools available to them right now at this moment. 2. They won't know of any of the incoming changes that are happening to Dust which means they also don't know that Dust is now on the back burner of development as a result of Project Legion. This is why Dennie switched gears and focused mainly on sending out in-game mails to the D-Uni members compared to posting on the forums. This way, especially considering that Dust University is among some of the largest corps out there at the moment, the information about anything happening to Dust can be disseminated to a much wider audience effectively to those who never frequent the forums. Now if you happen to be one of those people who go out of their way to ignore EVERY piece of mail sent to you, then obviously there is no hope in informing you. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2322	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:31:00 - [504] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I'm getting tired of this. We played DUST 514 because it was different from other FPS games, not because it was the same. Not sure why CCP seems so keen on removing some of the things that kept DUST 514 alive. It's certain at this point that one of the very few things that kept Dust alive was the complexity it offered. What killed it was the lack of understanding that complexity. There were absolutely NO TOOLS in place to aid the player in better understanding the progression system let alone understand the myriad of complex mechanics that were not immediately apparent. No, I'm not talking about the 3rd party tools. I'm talking about in-game tools. 3rd party tools are great but there is no way for the new player to know for certain that those tools exist unless they visit the forums which brings me to my next point. According to Dennie Fleetfoot (since he often gets in touch with CCP) it seems that the vast majority of the players that exist in the game don't really visit the forums... at all. If I recall correctly it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of the player base. That's a huge chunk of the players that don't read the forums at all. That means: 1. They won't know of any of the 3rd party tools available to them right now at this moment. 2. They won't know of any of the incoming changes that are happening to Dust which means they also don't know that Dust is now on the back burner of development as a result of Project Legion. This is why Dennie switched gears and focused mainly on sending out in-game mails to the D-Uni members compared to posting on the forums. This way, especially considering that Dust University is among some of the largest corps out there at the moment, the information about anything happening to Dust can be disseminated to a much wider audience effectively to those who never frequent the forums. Now if you happen to be one of those people who go out of their way to ignore EVERY piece of mail sent to you, then obviously there is no hope in informing you. Agreed. YOu know, I think we are starting to sound like a broken record lol click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2322	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:35:00 - [505] - Quote Pyrex finally made a good point (lol), and that is that is that it seems as though CCP Z is trying to bring in his views from another company into CCP, and is trying to turn Legion more into what they had; he's not tuned to what New Eden is all about, and what our expectations is for it. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8643	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:49:00 - [506] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Agreed. YOu know, I think we are starting to sound like a broken record lol Hey, I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. broken record. broken record. broken record. broken record. record. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1330	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:14:00 - [507] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I'm getting tired of this. We played DUST 514 because it was different from other FPS games, not because it was the same. Not sure why CCP seems so keen on removing some of the things that kept DUST 514 alive. It's certain at this point that one of the very few things that kept Dust alive was the complexity it offered. What killed it was the lack of understanding that complexity. There were absolutely NO TOOLS in place to aid the player in better understanding the progression system let alone understand the myriad of complex mechanics that were not immediately apparent. No, I'm not talking about the 3rd party tools. I'm talking about in-game tools. 3rd party tools are great but there is no way for the new player to know for certain that those tools exist unless they visit the forums which brings me to my next point. According to Dennie Fleetfoot (since he often gets in touch with CCP) it seems that the vast majority of the players that exist in the game don't really visit the forums... at all. If I recall correctly it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of the player base. That's a huge chunk of the players that don't read the forums at all. That means: 1. They won't know of any of the 3rd party tools available to them right now at this moment. 2. They won't know of any of the incoming changes that are happening to Dust which means they also don't know that Dust is now on the back burner of development as a result of Project Legion. This is why Dennie switched gears and focused mainly on sending out in-game mails to the D-Uni members compared to posting on the forums. This way, especially considering that Dust University is among some of the largest corps out there at the moment, the information about anything happening to Dust can be disseminated to a much wider audience effectively to those who never frequent the forums. Now if you happen to be one of those people who go out of their way to ignore EVERY piece of mail sent to you, then obviously there is no hope in informing you. It's actually less than 10% of the actively playing player base that has used these forums ever, and even less than that figure that post more than once a week. Thats what I've been told anyway by the Dev's and I've no reason to not believe them. So it's a dangerous for anyone (including myself I'll be the first to admit) to claim to be speaking for the majority when 90% of them don't even vocalise in or visit the forums. So when anyone says majority, the very best level of support they can ever claim to have is a majority of the 10% that come here. As to the tools question, right now the only way I can ensure that new starters get as much information as possible is to send them it directly to their game mailbox. So right now I have to send each new member to D-UNI 30 training 101's emails.... EACH. Been doing that since the beginning of the year and the retention rate for brand new starters has doubled. But you can imagine the maths and workload.... Even with the mails already written and waiting to be forwarded, I still have to add the recipients to the 'To" box Average of 10-15 applications to D-UNI each day. 300-450 mails a day..... 54,000/81,000 emails since the beginning of the year from my Eve account. Because the mail system of Eve is deliberately slowed to prevent spam it can take over an hour each day to send them all. 180 days = 180 hours = 7 and a half days JUST sending emails since the beginning of this year.. I think you all might be beginning to realise just how important it is to me that we have a more friendly and intuitive progression system. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8644	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:18:00 - [508] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: /warning... math incoming HOLY CRAP! WTF? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1330	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:26:00 - [509] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: /warning... math incoming HOLY CRAP! WTF? Word CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1665	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:31:00 - [510] - Quote As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, certificates are a valid option. Certificates could be sets of skills that, if you don't quite understand the skill tree, would allow for a much simpler guideline by which to train skills. Combine this with something akin to ISIS and you have a recipe for simplicity itself. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.