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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 28 post(s)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8550	Posted - 2014.05.14 15:16:00 - [1] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: CCP Z wrote: Quote: Respec Discussion Respec will have a gradually increasing cost, so your choices matter What kind of cost are we talking about? ISK would allow the mega rich nullsec alliances to constantly give their best players respecs to keep ontop of the FOTM, which will negatively impact NPE and seriously hinder smaller, poorer alliances. AUR respecs would give dust a very strong P2W label, which, I'm sure you know, will make a lot of people stay away from legion. A percentage of total SP could work if you intend to make it a tool for new players to use to try out different roles and find out what they're comfortable with, but I doubt any hardcore players would want to lose months worth of SP for a respec. The problem is what do you want respecs to be used for? What target audience do you see using respecs? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8551	Posted - 2014.05.14 16:49:00 - [2] - Quote I don't like general respecs like many people come to know and understand. If there is ever a respec, then please consider this old suggestion that was brought up last year and was later recognized by CCP Cmdr Wang (back when he was working for you guys). Skill Back Booster https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread Feedback/Suggestions List https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1009985#post1009985 Have you at least considered these options, CCP Z? One more question. I'm still not completely understanding the progression system you outlined regarding the weapons. What I want to know is, can I still be able to fit a Nova Knife onto a Commando suit or an Plasma Rifle onto a Scout or a Sniper Rifle onto a Logistics regardless of their role and and race? If not, why? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8551	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:34:00 - [3] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I'm still not completely understanding the progression system you outlined regarding the weapons. What I want to know is, can I still be able to fit a Nova Knife onto a Commando suit or an Plasma Rifle onto a Scout or a Sniper Rifle onto a Logistics regardless of their role and and race? I believe they've already answered this. Except for your question's reference to the commando suit (whose role hasn't been designed in the new system yet) the answer is yes, you can. It will require that you progress down two separate paths for two different roles, but once you have done so, you'll be able to combine those roles, mixing and matching elements from each. Or am I mistaken? I don't know about that. If I want to be able to run just a scout suit but want to use a weapon meant for a commando, why should I be forced to train into the commando suit in addition to the scout suit if I don't even want to be a commando? Sounds like an even bigger SP sink than what Dust has. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8551	Posted - 2014.05.14 17:35:00 - [4] - Quote Starlight Burner wrote: I still fail to see how any of this is related to DUST 514. I strongly remember this being the DUST 514 forums for the DUST 514 PlayStation Exclusive. CCP Z still hasn't answered anything that pertains to the advancements of DUST 514 and nor has any of the other devs. Why doesn't CCP do something right for once? Maybe because CCP means Consistently Causing Problems? Go make a darn(m) LEGION forum. You mean the forum section you're posting in right now? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8556	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:23:00 - [5] - Quote Overall, if I want to be a Scout suit and I want to use a Mass Driver on it then I should be able to train up the Scout suit and the Mass Driver without ever needing to train up the Logistics suit in order to use the Mass Driver. I don't ever want to be forced into another suit I won't use just to gain access to a weapon that I like. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8558	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:43:00 - [6] - Quote @CCP Z Is it ok if you can post the entire skill tree you have planned right now? And I mean all of it even though it's just an early concept and is probably subject to change by the time Legion gets the green light. I need to see it all to get the whole context of what you're trying to achieve. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8560	Posted - 2014.05.15 02:19:00 - [7] - Quote Ok, I think I'm starting to understand more. But I'll still wait to see first what you present in the skill tree when that's ready. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8567	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:11:00 - [8] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I kinda get the feeling that he just doesn't believe us or something. Is this going to be a situation where the community is all going to say something and Z is just going to say screw it and do things his own way anyhow? Because that's largely the feeling I'm getting. I'm starting to get that impression too. At least with CCP MC Peanut, we can be sure that our feedback is being considered for the HUD design. I'm not sure I can say the same for CCP Z in regards to the progression system he has laid out for us. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8567	Posted - 2014.05.15 05:12:00 - [9] - Quote TrueXer0z wrote: CCP Z wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I strongly suggest that EVE: Legion adopt a progression system that mirrors EVE Online. I don't see why not. And I am strongly working doing the opposite for the reasons stated 20 times in this thread :) Why is it necessary for this change? Where are the overwhelming requests threads saying that the skill trees need to be overhauled? Didn't you guys spend the last 2 years trying to balance the game to incorporate the current skill tree? You CCP guys are so way off base with your customers is it kinda of embarrassing to watch. I am embarrassed to tell people about Dust 514/ Legion. (Yes, Dust/Legion are the same IP. How can you even deny that fact?) Seriously, get you stuff together guys. Enough is enough. What is it going to take? The community is telling you what they want. It is really that simple. Imagine making a game that included actual customer interaction and without the veil of obscurity. Be honest with us. You already have in mind what you plan on doing. Our feedback means nothing at this point. Especially since we don't even have access to a working version of your model. You guys are making this a lot harder then it has to be. You wonder why the community is toxic? The consistent neglect of a true community voice has lead it to the state it is currently in. We all want this game to be made, we all want it to be awesome, we all want it to succeed. Why must every encounter be a battle between the community vs. the community vs. the Devs? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8578	Posted - 2014.05.15 16:45:00 - [10] - Quote Z, as soon as you are ready, don't be afraid to show us the complete skill tree you have planned. That will go a long way in clearing any confusion among us. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8581	Posted - 2014.05.15 17:45:00 - [11] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: I will defer to posts in this thread by Kigurosaka Laaksonen for how I see the current skill system and in what direction we should be headed. I would like to stress that transparency is critical. I've been here since Mordu's Private Trials and watched many slow motion train wrecks that were accurately predicted and entirely preventable had we of had better communication between the devs and the community. If I can reduce the failures of Dust 514 to a single word, it is arrogance. Please take the extra time to clearly present your plans. It is in your best interest. The only things any dev needs to understand about Dust and Legion is that this is not another FPS, and that if you try to make it one it will surely be to the detriment of the entire community. CCP has created a very loyal and invested community on the dream of a complex thinking man's shooter where choices matter and actions have consequence. We are all here for that single reason. This. For a long time now I grew up with the understanding that there are some things that game developers should keep secret due to the very nature of how people react as a whole in terms of gossip and rumor mills spiraling out of control. But in the case of Dust and Legion, that traditional understanding will NOT work. Full transparency is very important at this stage of development. If you look at Eve Online, CCP has been most transparent on almost every little detail. Just look at their dev blogs covering everything from industry overhauls to drone skills and from pricing to the UI. The amount of details given in those dev blogs are astounding and has kept any confusion in the Eve Online community to an absolute minimum with only minor disagreements here and there. Now contrast that with Dust. Dust has had the least amount of transparency and have often left behind more questions than answers which has left everyone here feeling that the Devs just aren't paying attention. And then look what happened to Dust. It's only half finished and left behind now on an outdated console that no one will care about in 12 months time. Don't ever repeat that mistake. CCP, you can avoid that mistake by finally giving us all the details we asked for. Again, don't be afraid to give us all of the graphs and stuff like that covering the new progression system you are proposing. Doing so might even remove the confusion and ultimately improve relations with the community. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8584	Posted - 2014.05.15 19:20:00 - [12] - Quote Karl Koekwaus wrote: CCP Z wrote: This will remain the case in Legion, for different reasons: You will have different contracts offered to you depending on your Dropsuit Meta Level. Basically, if you have 3 fittings with a 120, 200 and 350 Metalevel, you will have access to 3 different brackets where people will have the same Metalevel range as you. So, no Dropsuit will be obsolete. You will have access to non-match made battles, so basically you can pick any Dropsuit you want. So are we back to Legion being a Lobby shooter? Not really. The Fanfest 2014 keynote shows that CCP plans to have both lobby shooting AND sandbox gameplay. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h9pJyrPOZE As you can see, they will be offered as options. What CCP Z mentioned was just using the meta level to address the matchmaking for the lobby part of the game. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8592	Posted - 2014.05.16 02:30:00 - [13] - Quote Captain Crutches wrote: Cyrus Militani wrote: If a respect option is "the solution" for changing directions this new system is already broken. So what you're saying is I'll either need insanely more SP to diversify my class / fittings, or I'll need to respec every time I want to change classes. I have seen this in other games, and nothing is worse than hearing "hold on I need to respec into x". This. The mark of a good progression system, IMO, should be that no respecs of any sort are necessary. I put up with them in Dust thus far with the understanding that when all planned equipment and skills were hammered out they would stop. Hearing you plan to offer them in Legion right from the get-go tells me the system must be (at least a little bit) deeply flawed or you wouldn't let us have them. Agreed. As long as you give new players in the academy a chance to try out every suit, weapon, module, and vehicle before they graduate and present them with the proper tools to understand the skill progression (ISIS) then there would be no need to implement a respec. PS: Didn't CCP say earlier they were reluctant to give out respecs? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8596	Posted - 2014.05.16 04:00:00 - [14] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Captain Crutches wrote: Cyrus Militani wrote: If a respect option is "the solution" for changing directions this new system is already broken. So what you're saying is I'll either need insanely more SP to diversify my class / fittings, or I'll need to respec every time I want to change classes. I have seen this in other games, and nothing is worse than hearing "hold on I need to respec into x". This. The mark of a good progression system, IMO, should be that no respecs of any sort are necessary. I put up with them in Dust thus far with the understanding that when all planned equipment and skills were hammered out they would stop. Hearing you plan to offer them in Legion right from the get-go tells me the system must be (at least a little bit) deeply flawed or you wouldn't let us have them. Agreed. As long as you give new players in the academy a chance to try out every suit, weapon, module, and vehicle before they graduate and present them with the proper tools to understand the skill progression (ISIS) then there would be no need to implement a respec. PS: Didn't CCP say earlier they were reluctant to give out respecs? I think they called them "disruptive" for the game and community just during EVE Vegas. I will also agree that "needs respecs to work" ought to be an instant disqualifier when it comes to designing a progression system. Not only do they not fit into New Eden from a conceptual standpoint. The potential for negative impact on balance, retention and the EVE/Legion economy have been discussed ad nauseam in this forum so it troubles me to see it suggested in passing just like that. It's like a new and improved sports car model that also happens to ship with an unreliable engine. That's why a pair of horses is included in the price in case of the inevitable engine failure: They introduce their own set of requirements and risks, they don't fit in with the product you're shipping and they really should not be necessary in the first place. The economy in particular is what came up, though not as often as one hoped, whenever respecs were ever discussed as an option. The New Eden economy relies heavily on players being dependent on one thing or another usually because they were already invested heavily in one role or the other. Let's say for example that you have trained up to be able to fly the Megathron Battleship and need Null T2 ammo for maximum effectiveness for Incursion running. Then let's say I'm a market trader who happens to sell Null ammo on a regular basis and it has become a major part of my trade portfolio. As long as you can only use Null ammo on your ship because that's the extent that you trained for, I'm mostly fine with selling you the ammo you need. But then let's say you get a respec and then instantly swap to a Nightmare Battleship and as a result you need laser crystals instead of the Null ammo I have. That instantly affects my portfolio which took a considerable amount of research and investment to establish. It's not easy finding a diversified portfolio of commodities that have been found to be lucrative and stable. It requires hours, if not days, of monitoring the regional markets for new stable commodities and then having to invest some capital in testing such markets before finally settling in on the various commodities I researched. Of course, the market always changes and I always have to update my portfolio accordingly but that's usually not a problem as the market changes in subtle ways thus allowing me to catch up with the changes. If respecs ever get introduced especially if it encourages FOTM chasers, that will likely cause major market shocks across the region and ultimately impact my entire portfolio and thus force me to change probably more time than it is necessary. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8605	Posted - 2014.05.16 15:45:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Z wrote: I am going through all the replies here and will make sure the feedback will help us improve our current design Ok. At least now I know you're trying to incorporate our feedback into your design. Again, I want to stress the importance of two things. 1. Show us your work. This will definitely help clear out any misunderstanding we have. 2. Don't force us to train up a suit we don't want just to access a weapon. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8605	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:04:00 - [16] - Quote Fenix Alexarr wrote: Quote: " Negative Respec/Skillback idea" I love it. That is really the kind of thing I will be looking at for our respec system A lot of people are expressing what a terrible idea the respec is and what it means for the credibility of the system. I personally don't like the idea of removing consequences from choices for such a small cost. The skillback booster idea is not what you think. Here, take a look at this link that originally brought it up. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread This basically allows you to remove SP from an unwanted skill book but at a pace equal to how you passively gain SP and your passive SP is disabled for the duration of the booster so you won't earn SP while removing SP. It's a fair system that appeases both the anti-respec and the pro-respec crowds. Interestingly enough, there appeared to be quite a number of pro-respec folks who don't like this idea. I like this idea. Keep in mind that I'm well known for hating respecs in general. That says something. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8605	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:13:00 - [17] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: And it has to be financed. Payment model is everything right now. The grinder don't play the music till you put the money in the monkey's cup. And I'm sure alienating your current playerbase and a large potential playerbase is a fantastic way to finance a game. Hold that thought until we see the work that CCP Z will show us. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8605	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:17:00 - [18] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Fenix Alexarr wrote: Quote: " Negative Respec/Skillback idea" I love it. That is really the kind of thing I will be looking at for our respec system A lot of people are expressing what a terrible idea the respec is and what it means for the credibility of the system. I personally don't like the idea of removing consequences from choices for such a small cost. The skillback booster idea is not what you think. Here, take a look at this link that originally brought it up. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=86041&find=unread This basically allows you to remove SP from an unwanted skill book but at a pace equal to how you passively gain SP and your passive SP is disabled for the duration of the booster so you won't earn SP while removing SP. It's a fair system that appeases both the anti-respec and the pro-respec crowds. Interestingly enough, there appeared to be quite a number of pro-respec folks who don't like this idea. I like this idea. Keep in mind that I'm well known for hating respecs in general. That says something. I like this idea much more than what peeps think of as respecs, but also find it horribly gamey and immersion-breaking. Why is my merc 'unlearning' and at the same time unable to learn anything else passively? Was my hard drive full? Has my learning module been turned off? It's less to do with immersion and more to do with discouraging FOTM chasers. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8605	Posted - 2014.05.16 16:19:00 - [19] - Quote Negris Albedo wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: This basically allows you to remove SP from an unwanted skill book but at a pace equal to how you passively gain SP and your passive SP is disabled for the duration of the booster so you won't earn SP while removing SP. It's a fair system that appeases both the anti-respec and the pro-respec crowds. If it's at the same rate as you gain passive SP, why even use it in the first place? The only time I could see it being useful would be if there was a maximum skillpoint limit... which would be terrible. It could be setup so that maybe you can unlearn faster than you gain passive SP, but not unlearn too fast or else you're back to encouraging FOTM chasers. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8607	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:16:00 - [20] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Sarus Rambo wrote: Passive ISK Generation: I've heard talk of industry in Dust for a long time. I don't think it really fits. If you want to build stuff, play EvE. Game item production already exists in a whole level of immense complexity there. The drone cleanup idea introduces a faucet for passive generation of ISK however. Instead of going to a planet, you should be able to buy drones and set them up to be sent to the planets of your choosing once a battle there has been completed. Your drones would be some of the drones (perhaps more powerful versions of the drones) people fight in their PVE salvaging operations. It would be a whole new dimension of PVE, considering you are still be destroying something player owned. Obviously the amount of ISK would be very small in comparison to a player who goes to the planet themselves. Only part of this post that I disagree with is the part about PIG (Passive Isk Generation). There should be 0 PIG, all income generation should be Active. Give all players the ability to Actively generate Isk and then allow Alliances/Corps to tax their membership. IMHO, Alliance tax should be drawn from the Taxes that a Corp generates. Ex: My corporation has a tax rate of 12.5%, say that my Alliance has a 10% tax rate. If my Corp makes 12.5k in tax revenue from me then my Alliance should get 10% of that giving them 1250 Isk and leaving my corp with 11250 Isk. Agreed. There is no game that I can think of today that gives you passive income generation. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8607	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:27:00 - [21] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Only part of this post that I disagree with is the part about PIG (Passive Isk Generation). There should be 0 PIG, all income generation should be Active. You have a lot of people looking for some sort of manufacturing or something. I'm really not against passive ISK as long as the ISK per hour is terrible. It should be equivalent to like 1 or 2 game ISK payouts per day. Say it takes 12 hours for a drone to complete its salvage run, and you only have the "bandwidth" to have 2 drones working at once. There are various ways to limit it, and I think it would be very satisfying to kill someone else's drone that they payed for and took the time to send to a specific planet (It should obviously let you know when you did this). Being able to open it up to fitting the drones you send to would be really cool. maybe you want one that sucks at defending itself but makes more money. Or one that is a beast but makes less money. That would be cool. Maken Tosch wrote: Agreed. There is no game that I can think of today that gives you passive income generation. EvE Online? If Dust or Legion ever got a player market, you would see passive income generation there as well. LOL. Corp taxes, Planetary Interaction, POCO taxes (assuming you control the POCO), and tycoon-level market trading hardly qualify as passive income generation. All of them require player effort in some form in addition to maintaining that effort. I have been playing Eve Online since 2008 and I still do. There is absolutely no passive income generation in Eve in the sense that you do nothing to earn it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8607	Posted - 2014.05.16 19:36:00 - [22] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Corp taxes, Planetary Interaction, POCO taxes (assuming you control the POCO), and tycoon-level market trading hardly qualify as passive income generation. All of them require player effort in some form in addition to maintaining that effort. I have been playing Eve Online since 2008 and I still do. There is absolutely no passive income generation in Eve in the sense that you do nothing to earn it. Ok, then read my original post. I basically state you need to setup everything, send drones out to get you salvage, and also putting them at risk of being destroying by players. Also stated the possibility to add fitting options to these drones to give someone more interaction and choice. If we are defining passive income as doing nothing for ISK, how is this passive then? (My definition would be you do something in game to setup something, leave, come back to ISK). In that case, it should be fine as long as you have to put in the effort (not just initially but every now and then). I guess I misread it originally. Sorry about that. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8611	Posted - 2014.05.17 02:17:00 - [23] - Quote Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8616	Posted - 2014.05.17 03:51:00 - [24] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. Nicely presented and good content Maken. So many mercs here have presented progression systems that serve newberries and vets, reflect the values of New Eden and fit the game on the ground very well. It warms the heart to see what we can do when we're not going to war over tiericide, blue donuts, tankspam and redline snipers ;) At our very core we are a community after all. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8619	Posted - 2014.05.17 04:58:00 - [25] - Quote Captain Crutches wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. Nicely presented and good content Maken. So many mercs here have presented progression systems that serve newberries and vets, reflect the values of New Eden and fit the game on the ground very well. It warms the heart to see what we can do when we're not going to war over tiericide, blue donuts, tankspam and redline snipers ;) At our very core we are a community after all. So say we all. Oh frakking seven, mate. And I'd vote for your proposal solely because you had a picture of Miku in your slideshow. <3 What? No mention of the link? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8621	Posted - 2014.05.17 05:29:00 - [26] - Quote Hammerhead LandSharkX wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch you should start a thread for that I actually thought about that, but realized that there is already two threads in existence where I can best post this in for maximum visibility. This thread in which it seems that CCP Z is actually reading every single post in it despite the 23 pages already on it and the one that I-Shayz-I has created which later became stickied and it now the go-to reference thread for major topics and ideas. Therefore, posting my own thread would be a moot point. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8628	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:12:00 - [27] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Thanks for feedback Natu and I do take it on board. Just a couple of points. I quoted Malkai in the the post you quoted because he was the last person (but not the only) in the thread to speak of asking for research. Nothing personal Malkai o7. I made no mention of names, so its a big assumption that I meant you particular. But I apologise if I've caused you to believe so, when as you say you didn't demand but you were the first to question it. Secondly, as any member or former member of the CPM or CSM will tell, getting CCP to show them details of internal research is like pulling teeth. And they've signed an NDA. So the chances of getting such research posted publicly when it might involve proprietary information that CCP don't want making public, isn't something that could or should be reasonably expected. As to what you said here "If you can-¦t try to comprehend what players with unpopular opinions are saying, how can you represent them?", in this particular instance I'm the one with the unpopular opinion in this thread, because I think what Z has come up with is pretty damn good and I've spent 23 pages defending him. Being a member of CPM does mean that that I would have act as an advocate for the players. But am I not allowed an opinion? Would I be expected to slavishly agree with everything that was said by the players? Of course not, I'd be riddled with indecision and be of no use to the playerbase or to CCP. I have to look at all the information from both sides, form an opinion as to the best way to proceed that will not only benefit the players but benefit the long term future of the game. And Z's system in my judgement, will do both. It needs the odd tweak but it's how we should go. Is that the popular view? Judging by this thread so far, certainly not. My reasoning for such an unpopular stance is an ugly truth. The player numbers are dwindling. Radical changes in thinking are needed and long held assumption must be cast away if this game is to greenlit and successful. Simply tinkering with the current systems in game is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. It needs a rocket fuelled enema kicking up its arse. Legion has to be greenlit, if it isn't, it's game over. For it to be greenlit, CCP need it to be a success. Rouge and Z were brought in for a reason. Check out their histories. They've worked on a long line of successful FTP games. A proven track record. The Dev's are more fired up and energised for this than I've ever seen them in the past and Rouge is the reason why. I'll of course be a strong voice for the players and do everything I can to help them in the CPM or not. But right now, on this issue, I have to be on CCP's side because the long term future of the game is at stake here. If that makes me unpopular so be it. If it loses me your vote, so be it. But I will not back down from what I know to be the right thing to do. There will always be disagreements with something. Anyways, what do you think of my proposal for the skill progression? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8628	Posted - 2014.05.17 16:36:00 - [28] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: The current skill system we have works to a certain extent but has it's obvious problems. 1/3/5 is bad. Items should be unlocked at 1 and every point after should provide a bonus. Why is this difficult? Guess you were so angry you completely missed the part where they practically described the system being exactly like this. That's usually what happens in a 23-page thread. EDIT: Woops! 24 pages now. EDIT2: My only concern about the new progression system is that I would be forced into training up a suit I don't want for a weapon that I like. That to me is an even bigger SP sink than what Dust currently has. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8628	Posted - 2014.05.17 17:04:00 - [29] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Not really. Guy said that it would be really easy to get stuff and that most of your SP investment in the early-game would be spent on unlocks, not so much bonuses. I like to think that once you get to the racial bit (since it's Academy > Frame > Role > Racial > Specialization) you're focusing more on fine-tuning and turning your dials than you are setting everything up. Making your playstyle more powerful as opposed to getting stuff for it. What with a system where you don't have to get Dropsuit Command 3 > Amarr Heavy 3 > Amarr Sentinel 1, it seems like it'd be a hell of a lot easier to blaze through to the suit you want and then focus on all the extra stuff. I know a lot of people are saying that "modules/weapons shouldn't be locked behind roles" but honestly, I can't see much of a reason you'd need Profile Dampeners and Myrofibril Stimulants on a Sentinel xD Big problem I see right now is that people are so angry, they're not doing their research/reading to find the answers. I mean, there is a "First Dev Post" button in the upper right and then you can just click on the blue banners to go to the next one =P That is because New Eden is all about flexibility. Almost every FPS out there allows some form of flexibility. Halo ODST and Halo 4 has a similar system in place where a player can fit whatever weapon they like regardless of what their armor looks like (even though technically it's a same armor). From a non-FPS stand point, Eve Online offers the flexibility to fit a mining laser on a battleship if we wanted to. It won't be as effective as a dedicated mining ship like the Exhumers, but it's flexibility none the less. So if someone wants to fit profile dampeners and Myrofibrils on a Sentinel, then that's their choice. That's their business, not yours or CCP's. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8631	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:39:00 - [30] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: All of that being said, a one time only free respec coming out of the Academy seems reasonable, as does the occasional allowance of SP reallocation in the face of any total skill tree overhaul/the outright removal of specific skills, but such cases should be vanishingly rare and certainly not a planned recurring feature. 0.02 ISK Cross This I agree. A one-time respec after graduating from the Academy should be the extent of it. 2-5 million SP seems to be the common metric everyone is going by for this case. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8636	Posted - 2014.05.17 21:48:00 - [31] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Since we're on the topic of Progression and it's a very hot topic from the looks of it, I have a proposal that CCP Z should read up on. Project Legion Skill Progression Proposal - By Maken Tosch It's probably not as elaborate as others have posted, but it's a proposal that I feel needs attention, particularly CCP Z's. It would be nice to compare our ideas to see how much of us are on the same page. Also, my proposal comes with a twist. Hope you like it. Some nice ideas there Maken. I do like the notion of the academy skill giving some sort of bonus however the reduction of the training cost modifier reduced is troubling to me as the TCM is required to make longer term specialisation an SP sink for the vets. A reduction in that will reduce the depth of the tree while decreasing its height if you catch my meaning. However, your proposal suffered from the same problem that the current one has, in that its rather daunting to begin with for a new player when they should be encouraged to try as much as possible with no major concerns as to their SP expenditure. Those concerns should come later once they have discovered which role they like and want to specialise in. The game would then begin to offer larger rewards for such specialisation. That's why my proposal included a more in-depth academy so that the new player can try out everything via the academy without investing too much SP into just trial and error. If you help the player better understand the system, then there is hardly a problem in understanding the progression. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8641	Posted - 2014.05.18 17:45:00 - [32] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I'm getting tired of this. We played DUST 514 because it was different from other FPS games, not because it was the same. Not sure why CCP seems so keen on removing some of the things that kept DUST 514 alive. It's certain at this point that one of the very few things that kept Dust alive was the complexity it offered. What killed it was the lack of understanding that complexity. There were absolutely NO TOOLS in place to aid the player in better understanding the progression system let alone understand the myriad of complex mechanics that were not immediately apparent. No, I'm not talking about the 3rd party tools. I'm talking about in-game tools. 3rd party tools are great but there is no way for the new player to know for certain that those tools exist unless they visit the forums which brings me to my next point. According to Dennie Fleetfoot (since he often gets in touch with CCP) it seems that the vast majority of the players that exist in the game don't really visit the forums... at all. If I recall correctly it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of the player base. That's a huge chunk of the players that don't read the forums at all. That means: 1. They won't know of any of the 3rd party tools available to them right now at this moment. 2. They won't know of any of the incoming changes that are happening to Dust which means they also don't know that Dust is now on the back burner of development as a result of Project Legion. This is why Dennie switched gears and focused mainly on sending out in-game mails to the D-Uni members compared to posting on the forums. This way, especially considering that Dust University is among some of the largest corps out there at the moment, the information about anything happening to Dust can be disseminated to a much wider audience effectively to those who never frequent the forums. Now if you happen to be one of those people who go out of their way to ignore EVERY piece of mail sent to you, then obviously there is no hope in informing you. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8643	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:49:00 - [33] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Agreed. YOu know, I think we are starting to sound like a broken record lol Hey, I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. I'm not a broken record. broken record. broken record. broken record. broken record. record. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8644	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:18:00 - [34] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: /warning... math incoming HOLY CRAP! WTF? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8645	Posted - 2014.05.18 20:35:00 - [35] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: As someone else mentioned earlier in this thread, certificates are a valid option. Certificates could be sets of skills that, if you don't quite understand the skill tree, would allow for a much simpler guideline by which to train skills. Combine this with something akin to ISIS and you have a recipe for simplicity itself. But I'd still have to send another mail to explain the certificates.... If new players can't even understand something so simple, you probably have bigger problems than that. I don't find certificates to be all that helpful in EVE myself... I suspect most new players would skip certs in Legion like they skip the text based tutorial in Dust. A well designed system should be self explanatory... imo at least. For the record, CCP has removed the certificate system from Eve Online and replaced it with ISIS. The Interbus Ship Identification System alone does a much better job at explaining the roles of the ships in Eve than what the certificates could accomplish. The certificates were helpful in helping everyone figure out which skill books should be trained for what role. They were not effective in giving out a clear picture of what ship can do what and how to use it even though they had a tab listing the ships these certificates are best used on. The ISIS solved that problem by giving it a visual representation of the skill progression using the ships as markers in a tree. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8646	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:21:00 - [36] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I have seen no proof whatsoever that a lack of understanding the skill system plagued the majority of players. I believe they simply quit because the game was horrible and, by default, never got a chance to learn the skill system as a result. Whatever exit survey Z conducted was likely tainted. That's also part of it. But the topic of skill progression came up every now and then. Not as much as the topics of lag, broken PC mechanics, protostomping, and being put into a match in progress did, but when the topic of skill progression came up (often under the topic of respecs) it was almost always a heated debate on how it should be fixed. On the one side you had people like me saying no to respecs while advocating a more clear and concise set of tools that can aid a player in better understanding the game. This eventually brought up the idea of overhauling the academy as part of the solution. On the other side you had people saying yes to respecs simple on the basis that the skill progression system is broken and players need a chance to undo their mistakes which was the result of not being able to fully understand the skill progression. Of course another idea was allowing players to just let them play around with the SP allocation just for the fun of it (an idea often proposed by the scrubby FOTM chasers). On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8646	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:44:00 - [37] - Quote Captain Crutches wrote: Kevall Longstride wrote: So you can imagine my reservations as to the assertions of others, that the current system is fine or just needs a bit of a tweak.... when I have to send out that much information to new players to explain it all!! If you want my .02 isk... you shouldn't be the one who has to send all those mails! The complexity of the current progression system is, IMO, less of a problem than that the NPE does virtually nothing to explain it to new players, passing the burden on to people like you. Of course we appreciate you for it, but the problem is that it's necessary in the first place. If all CCP changed was the progression system, you'd still have to send out mails to every new D-UNI member explaining it. The mails would be different, yes, and there may be fewer of them, but the burden would still be on you to do it. If CCP instead focused on making a great NPE and explaining all that info that you so painstakingly mail everyone, I think more people would understand the progression system (however complex it was) and we wouldn't have this problem. The universally acknowledged problem is that people don't understand the progression system. But players can't be blamed for that when CCP does such a terrible job teaching them right off the bat. You yourself have shown without doubt that when someone is there to teach a newbie about the game they stick around longer. But only those that join D-UNI or another training corp get that instruction. TL;DR - Make a comprehensive NPE that teaches the progression system to those that need it, and then show me new data on retention and universal understanding - I bet it will be higher, and it'll give people like Dennie less work too! Exactly. If we need someone like Dennie to constantly send out mails to new players on how to understand the system and if new players need to join a player-run corp just to understand even the most mundane things like how to turn on/off the Voice Chat of all things, then you know there is a major problem with the understanding of the skill progression itself and that of the NPE. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8646	Posted - 2014.05.18 21:56:00 - [38] - Quote Starfire Revo wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: (an idea often proposed by the scrubby FOTM chasers). This is a bit of a tangent, but people who chase the optimal way to play are actually the opposite of scrubs. FOTM wouldn't be such an issue if balance was given a higher priority. Perhaps they aren't scubs then if they figured out an optimal way. But as you and me have seen first hand in Dust, a lot of those FOTM chasers end up being detrimental to the game as they often draw the attention of the "nerf-it" crowd who then often demand unwarranted nerfs to something that might not even be overpowered. I stopped counting over 2 years ago how many FOTMs we went through and how many times people asked for nerfs. Here is at least 5 I can remember from the top of my head. 1. Dropships Dropping (literally) 2. Dumb-Fire Swarms 3. The Rail Rifle 4. Cloaky Shottie 5. Redline Rail Tanks On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8647	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:18:00 - [39] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: Please dont blame FOTM chasers for CCP lack of ability in balancing the game. Every game under the sun have people who want the optimal. That's not what I'm saying. We all know already that the FOTM chasers were the result of CCP not knowing how the balance the game properly. They just amplified the problem. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8647	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:24:00 - [40] - Quote Ok, now that we got that whole FOTM topic out of the way, I think we should go back on topic about progression. I don't want this topic to be locked now because we kept conjuring up bad memories of these FOTM chasers. XD On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8647	Posted - 2014.05.18 22:29:00 - [41] - Quote Hammerhead LandSharkX wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I have seen no proof whatsoever that a lack of understanding the skill system plagued the majority of players. I believe they simply quit because the game was horrible and, by default, never got a chance to learn the skill system as a result. Whatever exit survey Z conducted was likely tainted. Can we hold back on just being Inflammatory and nonconstructive to discussion? You 'believe' they quit for a different reason and gave as much proof as they did for their reason. It doesn't matter if we see proof for whatever reasons, so long as we can understand that the game needs to improve to get more people playing and for ccp to think it's successful enough to move forward. Shouting 'consipiracy' isn't going to help-*discussing* reasons why proposed fixes/ideas/etc do or do not improve the state of things will. I didn't find his comment to be inflammatory or nonconstructive in any way. He did have a valid point as well as the rest of us. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8652	Posted - 2014.05.19 02:19:00 - [42] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: The Skill System isn't as broken as some believe, though NPE is FUBAR. Just because NPE is FUBAR doesn't mean that you need to rework the Skill System, it means you need to rework NPE. It isn't "as broken" as it seems. That part you are correct. But it still is broken regardless. It's not just the NPE (or lack of it in this case) that's the problem. Parts of the skill tree are absolutely useless. 1. Unlocking items only at levels 1, 3, and 5 results in some skill books having wasted SP on levels 2 and 4. Take a look at Active Scanner Operation as one example. Also, Dropsuit Command levels 4 and 5 are pointless as they don't unlock anything else after level 3. Even if it did unlock more items, there is a major problem brought up by my next point. 2. Some skill books don't give bonuses at all and only exist to unlock more skill books. This is wasteful in terms of SP. Gallente Light Frame for example only unlocks Gallente Light Frames suits but these suits don't offer any bonuses and they are more expensive than their role-based counterparts (WTF?). They exist only as stepping stones which only gets in the way and doesn't really show anything to the player about the suit in terms of its benefits and intended role. So even if you implemented a proper NPE system, it doesn't address the two issues I just brought up. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8652	Posted - 2014.05.19 02:53:00 - [43] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: If you scroll up through my responses here, I've addressed both of your concerns (at least with my opinion) earlier in the thread. You mean this one? Quote: My thoughts on how the Eve:Legion Progression should look. Firstly, it should be mainly Passive SP gain with the Passive SP filling a queued skill (just like Eve). Active SP gain should be present, though not in the same fashion as we are currently accustomed to. I strongly believe that we'd best be served by a "Practice makes Perfect" style of Active SP generation. We should be rewarded for using the things we use by getting better at using them. This would reward new players with the carrot of SP for simply being in a match and being active. This would also prevent vets from skilling up like a runaway train without diversification. I know that there are those who will decry this method, though I honestly believe that it is the best route for Legion to take. It allows rookies to have the illusion of accelerated SP gain while discouraging vets from instantly achieving Prof 5 by roflstomping everything with a tried and true fit. After a point, we stop growing taller and we start growing wider, it makes no sense that we should excel at using something we've never touched before. It allows the player to control what they gain skill points in by choosing what skill to queue, what gear to fit, what dropsuits to use and what weapons to use. The Skill Tree itself should remain largely unchanged in design, though with some minor tweaks to values (to bring it more in line with Eve's skill costs) as well as the addition of certain branches found in Eve that are not currently found in Dust (namely Leadership, Social and Trade). Lastly, every skill should provide a benefit outside of any unlocks, there should be no useless skills. Even if said benefits are tied to the Dropsuits/Modules/Weapons rather than the skill itself. Looks like I missed it. Damn, I had to scroll through 5 pages in order to find it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8656	Posted - 2014.05.19 15:29:00 - [44] - Quote @atlas No, the cloak in DUST decloaks as soon as you switch from the equipment to the weapon or something else. In order to maintain cloak you need to have the cortex equipment in front of you. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8662	Posted - 2014.05.19 23:23:00 - [45] - Quote Atlas Kordan wrote: A quick question about game mechanics. Will the MCC's have more interaction in Legion, rather than being a place to spawn currently? For instance, will we be able to board and fight on them, while people are fighting on the ground below? Or perhaps, having the ability to launch ships from the MCC, like an aircraft carrier? I don't think CCP Z is tasked with handling that part of the game development. That sounds like something another team handles. CCP Z handles monetization and skill progression. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8662	Posted - 2014.05.20 02:22:00 - [46] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Atlas Kordan wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Atlas Kordan wrote: A quick question about game mechanics. Will the MCC's have more interaction in Legion, rather than being a place to spawn currently? For instance, will we be able to board and fight on them, while people are fighting on the ground below? Or perhaps, having the ability to launch ships from the MCC, like an aircraft carrier? The MCC is too small for that. They can always make it bigger, like they're doing with the maps. They could (would make MCC fights a bit cooler, as you would have enough room to fight in them lol), but I doubt it for some reason that they would. They could at least dedicate the rest of the 80% of the MCC we don't take up to allowing Legionaries to pilot the MCC and commandeer the guns. Would make for some epic MCC-on-MCC action! On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8682	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:14:00 - [47] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP says that they want to make EVE: Legion special and unique, but their actions tell another story. Help me out here, guys, what's the word for someone who says one thing but does another? Hippogryph? So asking for a lot of feedback, having a plan set up, moving to a less restrictive platform, redesigning a lot of stuff, getting more devs to work on the project, and updating their engine doesn't seem to you as trying to make it special? No, no it doesn't. Feedback? Plans? Redesigns? Engine updates? Are these supposed to be novel in the game industry? Why are you trying to derail this thread and trying so hard to fight over this? Whether or not CCP is or not trying to make Legion special, something that's highly opinion based, is irrelevant to this thread. I agree. If people don't feel like doing anything at all except just derail threads for the sake of just derailing it, then what's the point? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8687	Posted - 2014.05.23 02:18:00 - [48] - Quote It's been a while already. @CCP Z What's the news so far in regards to posting the full details (graphs, powerpoints and all) of the skill tree you have planned for us? When is it coming out? Many of us posted out details of what we think it should be. Now it's your turn. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8701	Posted - 2014.05.24 15:15:00 - [49] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: It's been a while already. @CCP Z What's the news so far in regards to posting the full details (graphs, powerpoints and all) of the skill tree you have planned for us? When is it coming out? Many of us posted out details of what we think it should be. Now it's your turn. EDIT: For the record, I'm not asking for such details just for the sake of criticizing it. Far from it, I'm just saying that perhaps by showing the skill tree you're working on it might help alleviate the confusion that we see here in the forums and hopefully answer the questions that were left unanswered since the progression presentation at Fanfest 2014. We are obviously trying to work with you here to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible so it's only fair that you work with us as well. Thank you. https://twitter.com/ccp_z/status/470032103636082689 He's been working on the monitization this week (busy man). Remember, progression, monitization and the player market are all linked in legion. Thanks. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8744	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:25:00 - [50] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Kincate wrote: Captain Crutches wrote: Why do my post ideas always form before bed? Anyway, here's some words on suit BPO's and "emotional attachment". Let's say, eventually - certainly not anytime soon after release, but eventually - Legion reaches a point where large-scale ground or combined ground/space battles can be fought and have a newsworthy impact at the level of 6VDT or B-R. lots of other good stuff was said here read post above for details. Yes, I appreciate where CCP Z is coming from but in this particular set of games you do not get attached to your equipment, should not either. Maybe you become fond of a certain fit or a particular dropsuit because of the performance. I have nothing against a hall of suits, but I urge CCP Z to consider the Eve addage "Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose" for Legion I say the same thing do not fight in what you cannot afford to lose. To CCP Z I say this, I can take a leap of faith on this progression system it seems only fair to have it tried in beta before I become opposed to it. But Dropsuits and any equipment you intend to use should not be free, and if you are going to meta level then you can reduce the stats of the only thing which should be free, the Militia dropsuits. Free anything will wreck havoc on a game like this. You where not here for free Balochs, let me assure you the scene of a half dozen balochs driving around trying to run people over with no fear of losing their free equipment did nothing for gameplay. I realize you have said there will be other ISK sinks but Dropsuits should be one of them, any equipment you use (In my mind to include even militia equipment beyond the dropsuit and militia weapon) should be an isk sink. It is NOT fair to try anything in beta that is likely to fail. By the time beta is out, the game development process has wasted tens of thousands of human man hours that could have been spent on something productive. Entire feature sets will be missing because CCP wanted to try something destined to fail. Do not tell them it's ok, because it isn't. That's what that Singularity Test Server that CCP has for Eve Online is for. To test things before they get implemented. And since Legion will be on the PC just like Eve Online, it will be much easier to be able to test things. This is not possible with Dust since Sony is in the way with its update charges and long approval process. That and the fact that consoles are not that happy at all to link up with a poorly optimized and poorly coded test version of a game. Last time Dust was on the Test Server, a crap ton of consoles were dying. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8744	Posted - 2014.06.05 00:26:00 - [51] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Will vehicle hulls also not be part of what is lost in battle? Also will skillbooks come from salvage or from NPCs and will they most likely be very expensive? If Legion follows Eve Online's style of NPE, then some skill books would likely be free to those who complete tutorials and stuff like that. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8752	Posted - 2014.06.05 18:29:00 - [52] - Quote I suppose we may have discouraged CCP Z for a long while. I haven't seen him post anything here recently. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8752	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:22:00 - [53] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Anymore news for us at all? I think we scared him off. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8759	Posted - 2014.06.10 03:38:00 - [54] - Quote Natu Nobilis wrote: Do not despair! There-¦s always Battlefront to look foward to I like Star Wars when it was only known as a movie. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8759	Posted - 2014.06.10 03:39:00 - [55] - Quote I just noticed... CCP Z has been awfully quiet ever since the recent bout of layoffs. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8760	Posted - 2014.06.10 18:04:00 - [56] - Quote byte modal wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I just noticed... CCP Z has been awfully quiet ever since the recent bout of layoffs. Came here to bump a thread for more attention then realized uh... it's a sticky Wow. I don't know how to read that. I saw the article and then the layoff news. I honestly am at a loss as to what to think or feel since, ...on all of this. I just keep typing and backspacing here because nothing that comes out really holds the weight that I feel this topic deserves. Nor does this process help clear my head of random thoughts that usually comes from the forced organization required to translate those thoughts to another. Sure, I have been frustrated in the level of communication or lack of dialogue, but at the end of the day I get that it's not my game to build. I'll either enjoy the results or I will not. I will continue to hope for the best and see what comes. But if it's true that Z was part of the 49, wow. just wow. On a personal level, I hope not. On a more general level I can't help but think wtf, CCP? Sh!t rolls downhill. I've learned that in my employment, sure. But learning that should come with perspective along side that realization---perspective that management at any level should damn well know before daring to take the reigns of any project. Sh!t may roll on down that hill because it's just damn easier to blame "those... down there" than to accept responsibility for one's poor decisions, mismanagement, or blatant ignorance of a product and its production requirements and constraints, but until the later is corrected, that same sh!t will just continue rolling on and on and on.... no matter how many rounds of layoffs or staff replacements occur. I'm going to stop here out of fear of this turning into a rant, or worse, derailing this thread more than it has been already. Idunno, guys. Fingers cross and all that, I guess. For whatever it's worth, I've enjoyed reading most all of your posts (both player and dev alike) and being part of the conversations that I've put into, ever how minimal my part may be. Whether I agree with you or not, I respect and enjoy the debate. We'll see what comes then, yes? All the best, - me. Well, I just brought it up because of the shear coincidence I see here. Even though I have my disagreements with CCP Z on the issue of progression, I also personally don't want him to go as I want to give every Dev a chance to improve themselves. CCP Z did say he is taking in our feedback. I just want to see for myself if he really has changed his mind so far after the loooooooooong discussion we all just had. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.11 18:11:00 - [57] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Skylight Atoma wrote: Quote: You will have different contracts offered to you depending on your Dropsuit Meta Level. Basically, if you have 3 fittings with a 120, 200 and 350 Metalevel, you will have access to 3 different brackets where people will have the same Metalevel range as you. So, no Dropsuit will be obsolete. You will have access to non-match made battles, so basically you can pick any Dropsuit you want. So it sounds like you want to discourage swapping fittings, or even suits, during a match. I hope this isn't the case because the ability for me to swap suits/fittings for my next spawn adds a lot of depth in gameplay. I am also worried about MMR RNG, where your team's suit comp is vastly outmatched by the enemies suit comp without the ability to adapt. And I see that you want progression to be harder, but is it really going to be THAT much harder to always have to focus on one suit at a time? What will be the purpose of restricting some game types to certain meta level brackets, outside of newbie battles? If we can still swap fittings/suits in match, how are you going to stop someone capable of fitting a 350 meta level suit from queuing with a 120 suit and then swapping to their 350? One suggestion I have is you could make a list of 3-4 fittings you queue with and the MMR averages the meta level of those fittings, though that is still limiting compared to what DUST is like now. I think Wolfman have stated that they are looking into limiting the number of suites you can bring with you. If this is the case it has my full support, since I always disliked the idea of having your entire inventory in your pocket (halfway across the galaxy). This would mean you can swap suites during battle, but only to the small pool you have picked to bring with you. However, this has very little to do with the progression, and I am also interested in an progress update from CCP Z So, Z... Any progress of the skill tree? I am keeping a very open mind as we only have seen a very small piece so far. I would like to get your thoughts about how the proposed skill tree will work together with fitting and market options. It does not have to be a presentation of the full skill tree, but just a rough overview, perhaps with a noob example of a player's first steps in the game. This is very much true. In Eve Online, every player doesn't have immediate access to their entire inventory as all of their crap is scattered throughout the entire galaxy. The limited cargo hold for every ship is designed to only allow players to carry the ammunition that they need with some room to spare for looting wrecks when they go off alone in far-off places. But yeah, I am still interested in knowing what's the status of the progression that CCP Z proposed. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8761	Posted - 2014.06.12 03:12:00 - [58] - Quote @Godin Oh please. I have at least 100 stations scattered throughout New Eden because I'm a market trader in Eve. Only three of those stations have things I actually use and they are all regions apart from each other. ;) On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8769	Posted - 2014.06.15 17:48:00 - [59] - Quote @Godin Sounds like an old interview. I like to see him come over to this thread right here as soon as possible and tell us if he has changed his mind or not. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8775	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:11:00 - [60] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: @Godin Sounds like an old interview. I like to see him come over to this thread right here as soon as possible and tell us if he has changed his mind or not. I think it was like 10 days ago that I saw it. Do you remember the link or at least the name of the website? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8781	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:46:00 - [61] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: wtf stupid ass skill system chages to fix something that aint broken Not exactly true. The current skill system in Dust 514 IS BROKEN in some way. For example, everyone knows there are skill books that are nothing more than SP sinks and serve no purpose but to just get in the way. Another problem is inconsistencies such as why nova knives don't have a fitting optimization skill while all other weapons have one. Some useful skills even have useless levels of their own. Overall the Dust skill progression needs plenty of work. However, this doesn't mean that I agree with CCP Z's idea. I just want the current problems to be addressed. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8795	Posted - 2014.06.21 04:02:00 - [62] - Quote Um, CCP Z? Are you currently busy? If you're alive, please post. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8803	Posted - 2014.06.23 22:13:00 - [63] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: John Psi wrote: Soooo... https://twitter.com/ccp_rouge/status/481103798073434112 What is CCP Rouge saying there? On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.

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