So the fitting on the sensor suite is too high. I'll bring that up in the next discussion see what the developers think since I do sort of agree those modules are nice to have but are very hard to fit.

I have found some issues. Naturally, those without gun game will complain about any changes to cloak.

However, I have proposed a few changes that should make cloak more balanced/skill based:

1. Either fix the decloaking animation to be faster, or add a delay on offensive capabilities other than hacking. ie, you have to fully decloak to fire. This is striaght from Eve. Allow the time to fire to decrease per level.
2. Lower the stupidly high uptime of the cloak and add a mandatory downtime. Such that, you can just one shot someone from behind and cloak, repeat, and take on multiple people. It'll force scout to chose targets smarter. Again, depending on SP investment, this can be lowered per level.
3. Heavily increase the fitting reqs for cloaks and give scouts a bonus that only allows them to fit them. Cloaks in Dust are essentially covert ops cloaks from Eve. Other cloaks in eve dont allow you to move very fast at all.
4. Decloak mandatory on flux. Cloak field shimmer on taking damage from other weapons.


Do this and cloak will still be powerful and fun.

I agreed with the sentiment earlier; which is what helped killed the cloak racial scout specific bonuses early in development. (you can hate me for it)

Don't worry - you are know as 'friend of the scouts' (or whatever) after all.

Saying that, we don't have a role bonus if we don't use it (I'm pretty sure no other role bonus is so specific).

I take it there is no chance CCP will just ditch cloaks (at least until they come up with a 'cov-ops' frame) and giving us real scout bonus? I get the impression they really want to force this shiny toy into the game one way or another.

If we had for example, reduction to electronics and Biotics mods we'd get bonuses to modules that increased our speed, stamina, stealth and perception - which are pretty scouty to me. Maybe give only the min scout a bonus cloaks if they have to stay in - since the scout QQ is really compounded by the brick tanking issue.

Would help alleviate the flow of slayers to the scout role - though they need a good home in the assault class.

Just trying to emphasise, half the perceived problems is not with the device itself, but the context it is used.

Couple dozen threads an hour is making it hard for me to keep up with so here's where I am garnering so far.

*Cloaks have glitches associated with them which leads to invisible weapon usage and vehicles

I will agree these need to be fixed.

*Cloaks are a bit hard to spot

I am a slight disagreement with this, a moving scout can be spotted quite a bit far away (my longest spotting is about 90 meters out) it is just difficult for me on controller to put fire on them.

*Cloaks persist too well through damage or flux

I agree but a full disruption punishes pure blind luck of stray shots that can happen as well. I rather see a few tweaks instead such as cloak timer draining because of damage and longer lasting cloak scattering because of damage.

As for flux, I would like to see a massive chuck eaten out of the timer with it (scaled to the flux damage maybe?)

*Cloak Noise

Maybe for self sound its a bit too loud and out of balance but as a third person its balanced.

*Decloak to weapon swap speed

Seems a bit fast for my own tastes but we don't need to bring this far too high it becomes a frustration and cumbersome and ruin the edge of a surprise attack. 2.5 sec max and lets try it 0.5 increments at a time.

*Cloak timer at prototype

80 seconds is an eternity waiting for it to recharge. I think a second variant of cloaks is warranted, something with 30 second timer across all tiers and faster cooldown efficiency.

*Cloaked hacking

I see no problems currently with this.

*Brick Tanked Cloakers

There is a problem but not sure how best to deal with it outside of ramping up cloak fitting more which means either increasing the fit cost of the cloak or decreasing scout innate bonus. While we could go after the tanking modules themselves that's going to effect ALL classes and that would get more messy than needed.

=Anything else did I miss?=
Will update points and discussion if new things are brought to my attention. I know with the 1.8 patch then 1.8 hotfix this week and the follow up tonight and possibly more on the way lots of crap flying around and my time is split between paying attention to you guys and working with fanfest build.

OT posts will not be tolerated. I know vehicle rebalancing just hit but I feel that there hasn't been enough time to adapt around it yet to see if more follow ups are needed or if they went overboard.
As for Assaults there are discussions on how to buff them but the development team isn't ready to share them yet.

I'll add that you shouldn't get a profile dampening bonus just by being cloaked. Leave that up to actual dampening mods. This will make us (scouts) rethink our low slots.

I wished but too much development going on right now to get a new class in.

This will disproportionately hurt non-gal scouts the most and of course gal-scouts are the ones most likely to 'abuse' their low slots.

*Cloaks persist too well through damage or flux

I agree but a full disruption punishes pure blind luck of stray shots that can happen as well. I rather see a few tweaks instead such as cloak timer draining because of damage and longer lasting cloak scattering because of damage.

As for flux, I would like to see a massive chuck eaten out of the timer with it (scaled to the flux damage maybe?)

*Decloak to weapon swap speed

Seems a bit fast for my own tastes but we don't need to bring this far too high it becomes a frustration and cumbersome and ruin the edge of a surprise attack. 2.5 sec max and lets try it 0.5 increments at a time.

I'm having a problem with the CPM giving his own opinions about what he agrees with, disagrees with, or what he could "work with".

CPM should relay info that the community is feeling without their own personal opinion. They are representing the community's decision. And that should be the only one being discussed with CCP, regardless of what they feel they could "work with" or not.

CCP > What do you think of cloaks.
CPM > Spouts word for word the community
CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad?
CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community.

CCP > What do you think of cloaks.
CPM > Spouts word for word the community
CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad?
CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community.

Please don't take the time to make these replies I'd rather that time spent post something....constructive?
CPM is a responsibility and I get it, you take answers from the community, but it's your job to make sense of it, Detective Encyclopedia Brown.

Couple dozen threads an hour is making it hard for me to keep up with so here's where I am garnering so far.

*Cloaks have glitches associated with them which leads to invisible weapon usage and vehicles

I will agree these need to be fixed.

*Cloaks are a bit hard to spot

I am a slight disagreement with this, a moving scout can be spotted quite a bit far away (my longest spotting is about 90 meters out) it is just difficult for me on controller to put fire on them.

*Cloaks persist too well through damage or flux

I agree but a full disruption punishes pure blind luck of stray shots that can happen as well. I rather see a few tweaks instead such as cloak timer draining because of damage and longer lasting cloak scattering because of damage.

As for flux, I would like to see a massive chuck eaten out of the timer with it (scaled to the flux damage maybe?)

*Cloak Noise

Maybe for self sound its a bit too loud and out of balance but as a third person its balanced.

*Decloak to weapon swap speed

Seems a bit fast for my own tastes but we don't need to bring this far too high it becomes a frustration and cumbersome and ruin the edge of a surprise attack. 2.5 sec max and lets try it 0.5 increments at a time.

*Cloak timer at prototype

80 seconds is an eternity waiting for it to recharge. I think a second variant of cloaks is warranted, something with 30 second timer across all tiers and faster cooldown efficiency.

*Cloaked hacking

I see no problems currently with this.

*Brick Tanked Cloakers

There is a problem but not sure how best to deal with it outside of ramping up cloak fitting more which means either increasing the fit cost of the cloak or decreasing scout innate bonus. While we could go after the tanking modules themselves that's going to effect ALL classes and that would get more messy than needed.

=Anything else did I miss?=
Will update points and discussion if new things are brought to my attention. I know with the 1.8 patch then 1.8 hotfix this week and the follow up tonight and possibly more on the way lots of crap flying around and my time is split between paying attention to you guys and working with fanfest build.

OT posts will not be tolerated. I know vehicle rebalancing just hit but I feel that there hasn't been enough time to adapt around it yet to see if more follow ups are needed or if they went overboard.

As for Assaults there are discussions on how to buff them but the development team isn't ready to share them yet.

Know what kills me?

These comments are quite well thought-out and have come right on the heels of the patch. I bet it'll take CCP over 6 months to address these problems.


Munch

Cotsy, no one cares. You run a cloak just like everyone else. Quit your bullkitten. If you're not going to contribute constructively stay out of the thread.

snip

CCP > What do you think of cloaks.
CPM > Spouts word for word the community
CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad?
CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community.

I know right? His QQ is getting sloppy as all ****.

Indeed, the CPM are not machines and as such have emotions and opinions of their own.

I believe the cloak does not require the sacrifice CCP said it should. A scout with a cloak should really be forced to operate on pre 1.8 levels, where they may have to forgo the extra EQ and slot to preserve the cloak.

Right now? Fit whatever the hell you want, hell fit two because that's still completely viable and does not demand the sacrifice it nearly should.

I have no problem seeing cloaked scouts, or picking them up on my passive scan (galscout) but really my beef is that weapon switching occurs way to fast. The cloak offers visual and TACNET stealth all packaged in a piece of EQ slightly more expensive to fit than an Uplink.

The main issue with that is that you have a great defensive, offensive, and traveling asset that does not inhibit your combat abilities. Cloak needs to inhibit your combat abilities, it should not be for those with the lack of skill. The cloak needs to be more thought oriented than just "I'll activate my active dampener, run around and shotgun people". Doing the kind of monkey business that's going on now should get most cloaked scouts killed, but because there is no significant delay in switching weapons, there is not really any risk in that.

ATM, being discovered when cloaked is not a disadvantage, because in lightning speed you can have your weapon out again.

Everything else is perfectly fine.