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Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 719	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:48:00 - [61] - Quote To be honest this thread annoys me. My personal experience as a scout with a cloak is it's fairly fun and I personally don't have much problem killing guys wearing cloaks. I guess my issue is where the heck were these threads asking for input for the four months of tank BS which are still more unbalanced then anything else out there. How about those heavies melting everything? Cloaks are far from OP which I truly thought they would be. ...
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5404	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:50:00 - [62] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm having a problem with the CPM giving his own opinions about what he agrees with, disagrees with, or what he could "work with". CPM should relay info that the community is feeling without their own personal opinion. They are representing the community's decision. And that should be the only one being discussed with CCP, regardless of what they feel they could "work with" or not. CCP > What do you think of cloaks. CPM > Spouts word for word the community CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad? CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community. Indeed, the CPM are not machines and as such have emotions and opinions of their own. But what is being relayed to CCP then? When the CPM makes comments like, "I could work with this"? What happens if he can't work with something the community is proposing? Makes threads like these seem to be as if they're falling on deaf ears. that's the responsibility of the CPM, to fairly relay the community's interest without letting their personal interest consume the message, some (like Mr.Kain) have failed to do this, but from personal experience I can say IWS is fairly reliable in his duty. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Vell0cet SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 1291	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:53:00 - [63] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm having a problem with the CPM giving his own opinions about what he agrees with, disagrees with, or what he could "work with". CPM should relay info that the community is feeling without their own personal opinion. They are representing the community's decision. And that should be the only one being discussed with CCP, regardless of what they feel they could "work with" or not. CCP > What do you think of cloaks. CPM > Spouts word for word the community CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad? CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community. Indeed, the CPM are not machines and as such have emotions and opinions of their own. But what is being relayed to CCP then? When the CPM makes comments like, "I could work with this"? What happens if he can't work with something the community is proposing? Makes threads like these seem to be as if they're falling on deaf ears. I see a CPM reaching out to the community to get an intelligent conversation going about cloaking mechanics. I don't always agree with IWS, but I respect him for trying to do his job. I wish other CPMs would engage with the community in the way he does more often. Best PvE idea ever!
Enkidu Camuel Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 165	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:54:00 - [64] - Quote I have to say that snipers should have a hard time spotting a cloaking scout, I was sniping in a match earlier and I was able to see all the scouts running around cloaked while I was sitting in the redline, something has to be done about it. Major DUST fact. a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ PRAISE HELIX a++ püñ Gùò_Gùò a++püñ
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2678	Posted - 2014.03.28 04:55:00 - [65] - Quote Sinboto Simmons wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Sinboto Simmons wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I'm having a problem with the CPM giving his own opinions about what he agrees with, disagrees with, or what he could "work with". CPM should relay info that the community is feeling without their own personal opinion. They are representing the community's decision. And that should be the only one being discussed with CCP, regardless of what they feel they could "work with" or not. CCP > What do you think of cloaks. CPM > Spouts word for word the community CCP > You're contradicting yourself... what is it? good or bad? CPM > Everything With it is right and wrong according to the community. Indeed, the CPM are not machines and as such have emotions and opinions of their own. But what is being relayed to CCP then? When the CPM makes comments like, "I could work with this"? What happens if he can't work with something the community is proposing? Makes threads like these seem to be as if they're falling on deaf ears. that's the responsibility of the CPM, to fairly relay the community's interest without letting their personal interest consume the message, some (like Mr.Kain) have failed to do this, but from personal experience I can say IWS is fairly reliable in his duty. well, I hope so....because I have no idea what these CPMs are telling CCP since none of us are present at any of their meetings. But when CPMs are too opinionated and are arguing their points too much, it feels as if what we say doesn't matter. Cause tbh, when we all come on these forums and argue about balancing.....our minds are never changed despite all evidence shown and logic bombs dropped. But we continue to argue and hope that CCP reads both sides and does what makes sense. But when one of us has their ear, it makes you wonder.....but w/e weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
mollerz 3045	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:01:00 - [66] - Quote Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. You gotta hustle if you wanna make a dolla
Vargralor Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:02:00 - [67] - Quote It has been suggested in a few of these threads but one way to fix the brick tanking issue is to change the shield extender and armour plates to be percentage based instead of flat values. Tune them so that the percentages give something around a commando the same hitpoints they have now with flat values, cut the base HP on Heavies a bit to compensate. The Assaults should likely have a small HP buff so they work out better than tanking than the logi suits. Then add stacking penalties to the modules. Scout suits could still add tank for some extra HP but nowhere like they can now. This should encourage usage of a lot of the other modules that are available now but are little used.
BARDAS Shining Flame Amarr Empire 885	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:02:00 - [68] - Quote I don't see anything wrong with cloaks. They seem fairly balanced to me. QQ is from people who don't like the fact that Scouts have an advantage now and can challenge them thus we must be repressed until we are no longer a threat again. Pretty dumb, but I would expect nothing less from this community.
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2593	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:05:00 - [69] - Quote I think the root of the problem more or less stems from fact this piece of equipment is being more applied for to the slayer aspect then the support. For example, lets use something as simple flanking. Currently: 1. Scout enables cloak. 2. Scout proceeds to flank enemies lines. 3. Scout switches to High DPS CQC weapon 4. Scout begins to Gank When in fact, I feel it should play more to this tune 1. Scout enables cloak. 2. Scout proceeds to flank enemies lines. 3. Scout places uplinks 4. Scout enables massive push of heavies and assaults. 5. Gank ensues ^ Both methods ensure the gank and possible push, but with the first example we eliminate the need for assaults or heavies. In essence, you removing roles, synergy, and role cohesion.I just feel that any piece of equipment that is drastically going to alter the battlefield mus require at least a two step process. My SP GAP carries me.
KGB Sleep 923	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:08:00 - [70] - Quote I like some of the things IWS is going to discuss and sincerely hope that the CPM can use their knowledge of upcoming features (under NDA) to insure that cloaks are strong enough to deal with whatever is coming down the pipe. People have to understand that when CCP releases things into the wild that they are probably thinking a few updates ahead so stuff can seem crazy to start, but even out later. The thing with tank hardeners was a legitimate mistake though. I refrained from QQ because honestly i thought "Maybe PVE is coming and it is going to be so cray we will actually need these strong as hell tanks to play Paladin for us." As far as scouts go, they can still be seen and killed with ease. The increase to TTK is enough that you can fight back when ambushed unless you are eating the end of a shotgun. Let a flux disrupt the field and minimap for 30s. Just my two cents. Because beer, that's why.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13826	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:10:00 - [71] - Quote Vargralor wrote: It has been suggested in a few of these threads but one way to fix the brick tanking issue is to change the shield extender and armour plates to be percentage based instead of flat values. Tune them so that the percentages give something around a commando the same hitpoints they have now with flat values, cut the base HP on Heavies a bit to compensate. The Assaults should likely have a small HP buff so they work out better than tanking than the logi suits. Then add stacking penalties to the modules. Scout suits could still add tank for some extra HP but nowhere like they can now. This should encourage usage of a lot of the other modules that are available now but are little used. Resistance Plates and Fields. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 938	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:14:00 - [72] - Quote The fastest suit in the game with the highest alpha weapon in the game shouldn't have 500+ HP and get to be invisible (or even nearly so). One of these things, or something related, needs to change, IMO. What that is, I'm not sure, but I will leave that with those who are more familiar with the scout play style, and only say that taking damage and/or flux nades affecting cloak seem to be reasonable first steps to this medium suit player. I also agree, strongly, with Moody that basic plates are way too CPU/PG cheap, and I think Vargralor had a particularly creative way to solve it (my making their bonus HP variable with respect to base HP values). Many thanks to IWS for starting this post -- I know he gets a lot of heat from some of you, but who else is reaching out to us for input?
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:17:00 - [73] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Cotsy, no one cares. You run a cloak just like everyone else. Quit your bullkitten. If you're not going to contribute constructively stay out of the thread. Why wouldn't you run a cloak? -it solves every single problem with the scout class, it.makes up for any poor decisions, any lack of awareness, any mistakes in engagements you make. It is literally one big crutch that rewards poor gameplay and poor decisions, in fact it rewards players are making poor decisions. Let's see: 1. Cloaks let you hack without being aware of your surrounding. They reward players for reaching an objective and immediate cloaking and hacking it, no reason to check your surrounding because a cloak will help you avoid a bad decision. 2. Cloaks also help scouts cross wide open spaces, usually considered a poor decision to be a fragile suit and cross open space, but a cloak provides a much safer option when crossing open spaces, and therefore rewards a bad decision because you get to where you want to be quicker without intelligent gameplay. 3. Cloaks allow for less strategic gameplay. Scouts are suppose to flank, they are suppose to get behind the enemy because they are fragile and need the advantage of surprise to take down larger targets. The cloaks provides this advantage for free. It rewards scouts who immediate rush the frontline (not really where they are suppose to excel or be) rather than staying on the fringes of battles (avoiding congested areas) and picking off outlier targets (selectively). This further implies being selective with targets, scouts should have a hard time taking down targets they attack head on.. This is not the case with cloaks. Scouts are able to charge or charge and wait the frontline does and take care of them. 3. Cloaks allow for a class which is based on movement, strategy, selective targeting to be based on cloaking and killing... The movement and objective play and the need to be a killer when the opportunity arises is what a scout does, it doesn't negate the role and replace it with an assault front lines warriors who is slaying everyone in sight. This isn't the Logi slayer 2.0 class, this is a strategic, thought required class. Cloaks don't add it it, they subtract from it by removing skill and rewarding poor decisions to their role. 4. Scouts were fine in 1.7 - some struggled and therefore 1.8 gave a boost - in 1.8 scouts were given 2 equipment slots to be versatile, more flexible and more adaptable to battles. They were also given 2 new scouts, the Cal scout provided a vast new role and again added much to the class. The scout class also received an addict all hi or low slot to their current scouts, which added their flexibility, versatility, adaptability, and power. There was no reason when scouts received a boost that a further OP item was added. Scouts were going to be strong in 1.8 without cloaks, cloaks pushed the class over the top. Cloaks are not required for a scout to be good, and now they are good regardless of skill. B) Players who were bad players (and still are bad players because they make terrible decisions) turned from bad players into good ones without the player doing anything but turning on the item. This is called a crutch, this is called unnecessary and really should not have bEen the desired effect. This is a matter of a single item adding significant skill, without a player deserving it. If scouts were down and they needed a boost, they received one and these players would have improved marginally until they got enough experience to play properly. But, a cloak has turned bad gameplay by poorly skilled players into killing machines and it a crutch to increase scores from those whose gameplay are not deserving of such rewards. So bad players are now slayers, so its rewarding bad gameplay and not punishing it. 5. The game has some rather serious issues of frame rate, lag, bugs etc.. Adding to this is the shimmer affect of a cloak. Cloaks might work if the game was more polished, but cloaks are unnecessary to a scout excelling, unnecessary to cancel or reward poor gameplay and not required when a scout is played properly. When game is polished, you can introduce cloaks but right now they are a crutch that rewards poor gameplay. Scouts feel they should be able to take anyone 1v1 or even 1v2, of course the elite can do this but cloaks give this ability to anyone and that is wrong. Players should be aware of bad engagements and run, cloaks aren't required for this to occur but provide opportunity to those who don't deserve it. Again, rewards bad decisions and rewards those who are making them because the game can't handle it. B) There are also some issues with de-cloaking, attacking while cloaked,etc. they should be fixed but it still doesn't mean cloaks should be so so far ahead of any other equipment that not running a cloak is a punishment. As Moody said, i know you are using one..of course, there is 0 balance in equipment and choosing the far and away best option in 1 of 2 slots has to be made. There is no reason to run anything else when a cloak provides such a boost to any type of gameplay (except if you are running a Logi scout, but that's not being a scout). In summary, cloaks reward everything the scout class is suppose to punish. Poor gameplay, poor decisions, and poor tactics are rewarded with cloaks. A scout is suppose to use movement to flank and get advantages by being strategic, and thst kind of sge play doesn't require a cloak to be successful at. There are 0 valid arguments against cloaks, no one says anything but "nerf eyes they are OP". Those players are just bitches who sucked before and now don't want to nerf their new slayer OP suit because its fun, highly rewards any decision they make, and they are killing players who they havent before.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 720	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:18:00 - [74] - Quote mollerz wrote: Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. Well said. ...
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2678	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:19:00 - [75] - Quote mollerz wrote: First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. I've been shot before a guy decloaks in the same manner that I've been shot before someone is made visible after spawning on an objective. Denying this is just biased......which I'm sure you will still do after I record and place the video of being shot before a scout is fully decloaked. Second, the basic is all you need....you can go invisible for the whole match with the adv. The cloak should work like other active modules in this game. Once you activate and deactivate, there is a cool down. For cloaks, however, once you deactivate, you can immediately reactivate...and that's insane. It doesn't take more than 30 secs (or 15 secs, for that matter) to kill a guy. So, you can activate, deactivate, and reactivate all day if you like. And that's just the basic...if you use the adv, you have more than enough time to do anything you want. And your last post convinced me that logic isn't your best suit because you're saying that only a basic cloak should be decloaked by a basic flux grenade. Does that even need a rebuttal? weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Vargralor Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 22	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:19:00 - [76] - Quote A lot of the complaining I have seen is about the shotgun cloak combo. A way to resolve that is move the cloak from the equipment slot to a light weapon slot. This it requires the sacrifice of a weapon slot (just like EVE). Only commandos could pull of the cloak shotgun combo but with their lack of speed and higher profile it is nowhere near as much of a surprise.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 300	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:21:00 - [77] - Quote Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but a way to partially solve the problem of the brick tanked scouts would be to add another penalty to armor plates. No need to reduce them, just place something along the lines of a scan profile increase when putting them on. The main issue with the cloaked bricks seems to be that they're almost undetectable, in spite of having the HP of a medium suit. Adding a scan profile increase for plates could change this, while making that increase much smaller for reactive plates and nonexistent for Ferroscale would give those modules more of a reason to be used. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2678	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:21:00 - [78] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: mollerz wrote: Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. Well said. You agreee with this guy? Seriously?? The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post? weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4155	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:21:00 - [79] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Currently: 1. Scout enables cloak. 2. Scout proceeds to flank enemies lines. 3. Scout switches to High DPS CQC weapon 4. Scout begins to Gank Aaaand shotguns. I hate to say it but I think cloaks and shotguns are kind dumb and cheap. I'm alright with knives because they are hard to use and leave you exposed. Also only one suit excels at this (the minmatar), it's the most squishy, and it can be countered by a cal scout. Also knives leave you open for half a second on top of the decloak time. Every other light weapon is fine in my opinion because you have to be in a good position and or be in a fire fight for a little bit. Not with a shotgun. This might be slightly unpopular but I honestly think there should be a special restriction for shotguns if you have a cloak equipped. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 720	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:26:00 - [80] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: mollerz wrote: Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. Well said. You agreee with this guy? Seriously?? The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post? Yes I agree. The flux part I didn't really think mattered but the rest yet. The cloak is not nearly that OP compared to what it could have been. Think of scanners and how long they were crazy OP for. The cloak is no where near that. It's not even two days and everyone is screaming nerf while tanks still slaughter infantry with impunity. ...

Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:29:00 - [81] - Quote 6. Scouts most survive with CQC weapons, it is a skill to get into range for NK, RE's or SG. A cloak provides that advantage without the skill required to get close. So again, it removes the talent and skill and instead provides it at little cost to strategic play. This also ties into this surprise attack factor, it also applies to using movement and strategy to excel and not just rely on your crutch, i mean cloak. It diminishes the role, the true role of movement and avoiding congested areas, and gives scouts an advantage in these areas while providing the opportunity to get to these areas at little or no threat to their health. 7. There is no drawback from running a cloak. It doesn't fill both equipment slots, so scouts are using same equipment as before and have option of a cloak on top of their old builds. There is no movement or penalty provided by the cape, instead it rewards players with what they should be penalized for in all areas of the game. The cloaks only provides and doesn't take away. In all honesty scouts are just denying because they don't want to return to their previous struggles. I don't see how it would matter to elite players like Moody who excelled before, a cloak only provides them with a huge boost and removes the chances any mistakes hurt them. I get it, i want to be good but a cloak is fake skill.. Its easy mode, it's not me and my skill it's the cloak and its ability to remove punishment. Its not a good item, so many items could have helped the scout class and not ended up like this.. Smoke grenades could help hacking, moving through areas, being stealthy, etc.. Cloaks are not required for a scout to excel and lets everyone be good compared to what they would have been due to their lack of skill. Its a help where help shouldn't be given.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2679	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:31:00 - [82] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: mollerz wrote: Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. Well said. You agreee with this guy? Seriously?? The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post? Yes I agree. The flux part I didn't really think mattered but the rest yes. The cloak is not nearly that OP compared to what it could have been. Think of scanners and how long they were crazy OP for. The cloak is no where near that. It's not even two days and everyone is screaming nerf while tanks still slaughter infantry with impunity. You can't negate one OP mechanic because another mechanic was more OP. Scanners had a hard counter....dampeners! What is the counter for cloaks? Cloaks are cheesy and it's already in the game....so we have to deal with another cheesy mechanic brought on by Dust. But it shouldn't be ridiculous. My biggest issues with the cloak is that the scout can take damage and not decloak and that you can shoot a shotty before you're fully decloaked. The decloaking animation isn't fast enough. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 131	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:34:00 - [83] - Quote There are also some dumb mistakes: Cloaks are an equipment but Logi don't get a bonus to it, that's smart but wrong. You dont want Logi cloaked slayers, but if its an equipment slot piece, then they should be given it. Why doesn't flux nades remove cloaking? Its electronic, it would make sense that it would remove cloaking and prevent re-cloaking until "x" amount of time. Why can't you have the RE and Cloak arms up at same time.... It's not like they are two different arms. Replace RE arm with cloak arm, same arm. You should be able to set off removes but not have them in hand because thats what the inter face is for both equipment. Why don't dampeners affect cloak shimmer? The less scan profile, the lower the shimmer would make sense. Reward those playing stealth and movement roles and would lightly punish those brick tanking while cloaking.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 720	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:35:00 - [84] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: mollerz wrote: Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed. Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes. First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking. Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice. Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor. I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on. Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked. The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other. A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable. It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right. Well said. You agreee with this guy? Seriously?? The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post? Yes I agree. The flux part I didn't really think mattered but the rest yes. The cloak is not nearly that OP compared to what it could have been. Think of scanners and how long they were crazy OP for. The cloak is no where near that. It's not even two days and everyone is screaming nerf while tanks still slaughter infantry with impunity. You can't negate one OP mechanic because another mechanic was more OP. Scanners had a hard counter....dampeners! What is the counter for cloaks? Cloaks are cheesy and it's already in the game....so we have to deal with another cheesy mechanic brought on by Dust. But it shouldn't be ridiculous. My biggest issues with the cloak is that the scout can take damage and not decloak and that you can shoot a shotty before you're fully decloaked. The decloaking animation isn't fast enough. I guess my issue is I don't yet see it being OP. Maybe it could be tweaked but I think some more play testing is in order. Well that happens why don't they fix some OP issues like tanks, CR, heavies (reduce turn speed maybe). ...
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2118	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:36:00 - [85] - Quote Idea: For Decloak/weapon switch and also duration. Lets do it the Crysis way: If you deactivate your cloak manually, the time for weapon swap is increased, but current cloak energy levels are maintained. If you deactive you cloak by shooting, the shot is instant, but cloak is 100% drained, cooldown begins. Duration Low speed = longer duration High speed = shorter duration. The reason being, when the cloak is active it has to create a perfect image at all times, on all parts of your suit, when running, surroundings cange faster, making cloak work harder, using more energy. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 4635	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:39:00 - [86] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Cloaks are an equipment but Logi don't get a bonus to it, that's smart but wrong. You dont want Logi cloaked slayers, but if its an equipment slot piece, then they should be given it. Official word is that the cloak is a "Utility" not an Equipment, even though it fills the same slot.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 5408	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:40:00 - [87] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Cotsy8 wrote: Cloaks are an equipment but Logi don't get a bonus to it, that's smart but wrong. You dont want Logi cloaked slayers, but if its an equipment slot piece, then they should be given it. Official word is that the cloak is a "Utility" not an Equipment, even though it fills the same slot. Utility slot? That only scouts get? Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2682	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:40:00 - [88] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Well said. You agreee with this guy? Seriously?? The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post? Yes I agree. The flux part I didn't really think mattered but the rest yes. The cloak is not nearly that OP compared to what it could have been. Think of scanners and how long they were crazy OP for. The cloak is no where near that. It's not even two days and everyone is screaming nerf while tanks still slaughter infantry with impunity. You can't negate one OP mechanic because another mechanic was more OP. Scanners had a hard counter....dampeners! What is the counter for cloaks? Cloaks are cheesy and it's already in the game....so we have to deal with another cheesy mechanic brought on by Dust. But it shouldn't be ridiculous. My biggest issues with the cloak is that the scout can take damage and not decloak and that you can shoot a shotty before you're fully decloaked. The decloaking animation isn't fast enough. I guess my issue is I don't yet see it being OP. Maybe it could be tweaked but I think some more play testing is in order. Well that happens why don't they fix some OP issues like tanks, CR, heavies (reduce turn speed maybe). They should fix those issues. However, in this thread, cloaks are up for discussion. PS: CR got nerfed like all other rifles. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 RND's recruitment official phrase
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1500	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:43:00 - [89] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Cotsy, no one cares. You run a cloak just like everyone else. Quit your bullkitten. If you're not going to contribute constructively stay out of the thread. right now there are no weaknesses to running a cloak why defend crutch gameplay? cloak needs to be ten seconds ON thirty seconds OFF otherwise its just a crutch gameplay not that it really matters once June/ July is here. Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2118	Posted - 2014.03.28 05:49:00 - [90] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Cotsy, no one cares. You run a cloak just like everyone else. Quit your bullkitten. If you're not going to contribute constructively stay out of the thread. right now there are no weaknesses to running a cloak why defend crutch gameplay? cloak needs to be ten seconds ON thirty seconds OFF otherwise its just a crutch gameplay not that it really matters once June/ July is here. Its not crutch, it is a piece of equipment that CAN BE COUNTERED WITH EASE. Try a Thukker, not many scouts have enjoyed them tonight, try using your eyes... you mic, your squad... Ten seconds is nothing, the duration isn't really the issue. Issue people are having is that they are being ran by full squads, who work together..thus making it seem so much worse. Another issue is the brick tankers...pain in the ass, the need to be busted early..not impossible. I do think brick tanking a scout should have more sever penalties to speed, shimmer visability of cloak and profile db penalties. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**



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