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Seymor Krelborn
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1901
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:29:00 -
[601] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I stopped reading at the "I feel the brick tank issue is bigger" statement. once again you prove with your own words you don't belong on the cpm.... I don't care how bicked your tank is, right now a cloaked scout with one well placed shotty burst to the head nullifies that issue and there is no counter to it.... cpm1 cant come soon enough and I will be praying to my golden cow you aren't on it.....  I can't trust a community that doesn't read the whole conversation.
I cant trust you... guess we are even then...
this game makes me sad....
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1586
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Posted - 2014.04.14 02:36:00 -
[602] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I stopped reading at the "I feel the brick tank issue is bigger" statement. once again you prove with your own words you don't belong on the cpm.... I don't care how bicked your tank is, right now a cloaked scout with one well placed shotty burst to the head nullifies that issue and there is no counter to it.... cpm1 cant come soon enough and I will be praying to my golden cow you aren't on it..... I can't trust a Game Developer community that doesn't read the whole conversation.
fixed
half a year wasted on scanners and cloaks
and even more time wasted to balance them
the conversation was ignored
the conversation was give us MORE maps
the conversation was give us MORE game modes
the sad part?
easy to balance maps and modes are preferable to two unbalanced toys
real tired of zero new content game modes and haveing ambush, skirmish , single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish ......MEH!!
Hey CCP get a PS4 client
Planetside 2 in June on PS4
Dust Deserters Alliance
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
14232
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:30:00 -
[603] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I stopped reading at the "I feel the brick tank issue is bigger" statement. once again you prove with your own words you don't belong on the cpm.... I don't care how bicked your tank is, right now a cloaked scout with one well placed shotty burst to the head nullifies that issue and there is no counter to it.... cpm1 cant come soon enough and I will be praying to my golden cow you aren't on it..... I can't trust a Game Developer community that doesn't read the whole conversation. fixed half a year wasted on scanners and cloaks and even more time wasted to balance them the conversation was ignored the conversation was give us MORE maps the conversation was give us MORE game modes the sad part? easy to balance maps and modes are preferable to two unbalanced toys real tired of zero new content game modes and haveing ambush, skirmish , single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish ......MEH!!
Well you're at a constant advantage over me because I know reasons why as t things are not getting done and yet I cannot share.
Just working on what could change; letting CCP figure out when they can change other things at their best convenience. and no yelling at ccp more doesn't make them go any faster if anything it shuts them up even more.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1587
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Posted - 2014.04.14 03:59:00 -
[604] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I stopped reading at the "I feel the brick tank issue is bigger" statement. once again you prove with your own words you don't belong on the cpm.... I don't care how bicked your tank is, right now a cloaked scout with one well placed shotty burst to the head nullifies that issue and there is no counter to it.... cpm1 cant come soon enough and I will be praying to my golden cow you aren't on it..... I can't trust a Game Developer community that doesn't read the whole conversation. fixed half a year wasted on scanners and cloaks and even more time wasted to balance them the conversation was ignored the conversation was give us MORE maps the conversation was give us MORE game modes the sad part? easy to balance maps and modes are preferable to two unbalanced toys real tired of zero new content game modes and haveing ambush, skirmish , single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish, ambush, skirmish, single letter skirmish ......MEH!! Well you're at a constant advantage over me because I know reasons why as t things are not getting done and yet I cannot share. Just working on what could change; letting CCP figure out when they can change other things at their best convenience. and no yelling at ccp more doesn't make them go any faster if anything it shuts them up even more.
First mistake was using Unreal Engine without proper Middleware tools comprehension by CCP Shanghai
Second mistake was lack of proper workflow priorities in Dust 514 game development
Third mistake was instead of asking Sony for help they instead trusted the Dust 514 EP to fix everything by tossing everything at the EP instead of proper delegation of Game Development workflow priorities
I hope things are improving .
I.E. CCP mentions many times that DEV blogs include last minute items indicating lack of comunication between Development areas.
Hey CCP get a PS4 client
Planetside 2 in June on PS4
Dust Deserters Alliance
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Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz
Dirt Nap Squad.
273
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Posted - 2014.04.14 04:47:00 -
[605] - Quote
Well after playing the patch for some time, I wanted to throw in what I perceive to be the true unbalance the claoks have brought. let's start with the fact it requires one of the twenty racial suits to even detect some of the cloaked players.
Heavies are great at mowing down medium suits. the scout is perfect to destroy the heavy. Than you have the mediums, suits. They cannot use enough modules to hardly see an uncloaked scout let alone one that is cloaked. Medium suits should be the scout killer but to do so they need an increase to percision. The issue is that as it stands, cloaks make it harder to see (or not at all if your color blind like me), as well as grant you full immunity to the radar. This behavour is allowing cloaked scouts to run around without the need or want to use teamwork.
What this boils down to is that cloaks need a counter, and the mediums need a role. Remove the extra dampening from cloaks, and increase passives as mentioned, and we will at least have some rock paper scissors.
Sage /thread
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iliel
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Dirt Nap Squad.
30
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Posted - 2014.04.14 05:13:00 -
[606] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:Well after playing the patch for some time, I wanted to throw in what I perceive to be the true unbalance the claoks have brought. let's start with the fact it requires one of the twenty racial suits to even detect some of the cloaked players.
Heavies are great at mowing down medium suits. the scout is perfect to destroy the heavy. Than you have the mediums, suits. They cannot use enough modules to hardly see an uncloaked scout let alone one that is cloaked. Medium suits should be the scout killer but to do so they need an increase to percision. The issue is that as it stands, cloaks make it harder to see (or not at all if your color blind like me), as well as grant you full immunity to the radar. This behavour is allowing cloaked scouts to run around without the need or want to use teamwork.
What this boils down to is that cloaks need a counter, and the mediums need a role. Remove the extra dampening from cloaks, and increase passives as mentioned, and we will at least have some rock paper scissors.
Increasing Medium passives would simply nullify the scouts' role. Cloaks are novelties not necessities. I for one would use a medium if it scanned well passively.
The problem, as the CPM has suggested, has to do with brick-tanked scouts. For this have wearing a cloak diminish a percentage of armor (say 50/30/20). Simple fix. Will mean that cloaked scouts have to one-shot anyone to win a battle. Perhaps a bit of a nerf to adv. and proto shotguns would also prevent more QQing. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
2854
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Posted - 2014.04.14 07:23:00 -
[607] - Quote
iliel wrote:Will mean that cloaked scouts have to one-shot anyone to win a battle. Perhaps a bit of a nerf to adv. and proto shotguns would also prevent more QQing.
Anyone who thinks the shotgun needs nerfing even just a little needs to actually try using one. You can only one-shot the weakest of suits and even then there are all manner of hit-detection and missing damage bugs every single patch.
Cloaked scouts should not be shooting, period. The shotgun is certainly not a problem. It's certainly not gotten better since 1.7 and if anything the change to its proficiency was a big nerf.
Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot
Scout community is the nuts
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Marc Rime
373
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Posted - 2014.04.14 10:54:00 -
[608] - Quote
I've posted some of this before in other threads (maybe others have too):
- The fitting requirements of the cloak should be lowered to what lvl5 scout skill makes them. Duration should be cut by a factor of 5. The scout skill should then increase duration by 100% per level. This would allow everyone to use a cloak, but scouts could use it far more efficiently.
- The cloak shimmer should become more visible for a few seconds after taking damage. This is to make up for the fact that the muzzle flash obscures the cloak shimmer.
- *IF* there is to be a firing-delay after decloaking (as some are suggesting), it should only be when the cloaker has not recently taken damage - otherwise it will become impossible to fight back when spotted.
- Possibly the shimmer should increase when within 10-15 metres of the cloaker. That would take care of the, apparently, most common complaint since the target would have a better chance of seeing cloakers within shotgun range - the cloak would still work as before against more distant enemies (which, IMO, is it's biggest advantage anyway ;)).
- The shimmer may have to be adjusted for certain planets lighting conditions and when set against certain backgrounds.
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BigStuarty
Endless Hatred
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
11
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Posted - 2014.04.14 11:43:00 -
[609] - Quote
I really do think my suggestion would be a fair trafe off...
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:BigStuarty wrote:The cloak is the issue, invisability is truly power in your hands. Im ok with it, at least a concept to be explored. Just the mechanics are broken ie the decloaking/shoot issue. Also the construct. The module should burn out say give the scout 2 mins total used as he wishes cloaking time then find a supply deot or we will find you. Instaed of repeated cloak allowance after cooldown. stops camping and trolling and encourages the scout to be more thoughtful and tactical. So say in a game , how many cycles should be allowed ??? Edit : I.E. how many times should one be allowed to activate during a game ?
one cycle ... module then becomes locked until death or suit change |
Th3 Hunt3d
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2014.04.14 13:26:00 -
[610] - Quote
What CCP could have done was put the cloak in the light weapon category, and I know that sounds strange but I will explain;
1. First of all, that would immediately take care of the cloak & shotgun problem plus any other scout slayer problem.
2. The scout would still have their sidearm slot, which in my opinion sidearms are a pretty viable way of defending yourself if you are spotted whilst hacking ( which is the main role of the scout, they are not at all meant to be slayers)
3. This would free up the scouts second equipment slot, which would promote a more tactical and support playstyle.
This small change would clear up all of the problems that are currently wreaking havoc with the cloak. By the way, this is all coming from a lvl 5 proto minja who has had plenty of experience with both scouting and cloaking. |
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GLOBAL RAGE
Consolidated Dust
40
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Posted - 2014.04.14 13:39:00 -
[611] - Quote
Flanked514 100% of the time?
Charlie Foxtrot |
NAV HIV
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
1445
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Posted - 2014.04.14 13:55:00 -
[612] - Quote
Cloak Charge
Overall this doesn't seem hotfix able when you involve damage prospects. Maybe for 1.9 but for now I don't see it being a feasible trait to add without a ptch.
What can change is the rate of recharge and consumption.
There isn't much discussion about it but a good cloaker can manage their chargers for a very long time and I am afraid to bring any changes to this outside of new variants but I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like.
There could be minor changes to this without making it useless. 1 Sec Cloak = 1.5 seconds of recharge... Well that's going to get a non-Birck tanked scout killed very quickly. It takes a few seconds at least to get from one cover to the other. To move from objective to objective... Plus few seconds to hack an objective... i'm not sure if i understood the proposal correctly, But let's just say it takes me 40 seconds to move to an objective and hack it, and another 20 seconds to move away from it (before the red dots respond to it) 60 seconds of cloaked time... So my Recharge rate for that cloaking would be 90 seconds?! A minute and half ?! the game lasts for about 15-20 minutes and every cloaked scout would spend more than half of it somewhere else just sitting and doing nothing...
- 1 sec cloak - 1.5 seconds recharge would extremly stupid (if that's the proper explanation)
- it'd be wiser to spec into brick tanked scout and kill everything without cloaking
- The problem isn't the cloak recharge rate, problem is being able to decloak by switching weapons. The cloaking tool should be disabled by using the equipment. it would give the non cloaked person time to react, If they don't then that's not the cloaked scouts fault. The scout would have to measure the time properly and decide when to engage in a firefight
Stealthiness
Cloaks are considered very powerful stealth tools able to dodge a number of scans, while scanners await their fix there is now the debate should cloaks provide any stealthing? Overall I am fine with it as is as it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well.
- I have been Scanned in Scout ck0 using advanced cloak and Complex dampener by a Gal Logi... So i don't see what the problem is. As i've mentioned before... If Logis start using their suits properly then all the QQ could be solved. Logis who are smart and don't care about brick tanking a logi suit, they are doing just fine
Level 5 on profile dampening and Complex Dampener and for the First time i've seen "You have been Scanned" while i was cloaked...
i have my Gal Logi friends and other logi friends who switched their modules and hunting Scouts with ease... It pushes a scout to use Ewar modules to avoid all these... May be we should make a Thread for how to Fit A Logi suit... if people decide to come out of their Extender/Plate shells, they'd be amazed by what can be achieved... |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
201
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Posted - 2014.04.14 15:01:00 -
[613] - Quote
Th3 Hunt3d wrote:What CCP could have done was put the cloak in the light weapon category, and I know that sounds strange but I will explain;
1. First of all, that would immediately take care of the cloak & shotgun problem plus any other scout slayer problem.
2. The scout would still have their sidearm slot, which in my opinion sidearms are a pretty viable way of defending yourself if you are spotted whilst hacking ( which is the main role of the scout, they are not at all meant to be slayers)
3. This would free up the scouts second equipment slot, which would promote a more tactical and support playstyle.
This small change would clear up all of the problems that are currently wreaking havoc with the cloak. By the way, this is all coming from a lvl 5 proto minja who has had plenty of experience with both scouting and cloaking.
Your "small change" doesn't sound a 'bit strange; it sounds quite familiar. The Scout Community tarred and feathered one of its own for proposing the same. He has fully recovered, but the idea is still bad.
Here's a thought ...
How 'bout we adjust cloak as needed instead of crippling an entire class?
Bang?
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
349
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Posted - 2014.04.14 15:24:00 -
[614] - Quote
BigStuarty wrote:I really do think my suggestion would be a fair trafe off... Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:BigStuarty wrote:The cloak is the issue, invisability is truly power in your hands. Im ok with it, at least a concept to be explored. Just the mechanics are broken ie the decloaking/shoot issue. Also the construct. The module should burn out say give the scout 2 mins total used as he wishes cloaking time then find a supply deot or we will find you. Instaed of repeated cloak allowance after cooldown. stops camping and trolling and encourages the scout to be more thoughtful and tactical. So say in a game , how many cycles should be allowed ??? Edit : I.E. how many times should one be allowed to activate during a game ? one cycle ... module then becomes locked until death or suit change
Are you going to make that change for an injector, scanners and repair tools or vehicles having a fuel supply?
Also if you did do that you would have to give it regular requirements and then everyone would be able to fit them.
- You can lessen the duration, increase recharge time, impose a strict cooldown before recharge time. You can reduce a user's movement speed when cloaked or make the shimmer even brighter (think a flash or sparkle) when sprinting. You can force decloak on weapon / flux damage. You could also reduce scan range or precision (cloak field interferes with that capability can be the reasoning)
All other ways without making it a one off equipment
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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