DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

anaboop wrote:

Been testing out bpo dragonfly scout suit, fitting even the most basic junk on it and still being able to take out protos, and advanced.

Running basic cloak, militia shotty, militia cpu module. Cost 4k total. No skills into shotguns or scout suits.

It seems scouts have the best of both worlds stealthy and damage, though its the stealth which allows them to get in close to cause the damage. So doing something to one or the other wont work in my eyes.

The problem seems to be that other suits need to lose all the modules they usually use in place of profile amps and precisions just to see them or try to hide from them. They need to either be hard to find, or be able spot enemies easily, not both least not on the same suit. Make 2 suits good at hiding and 2 good at spotting.

I know people are going to say they are scouts and thats there role, but i think taking one advantage away like that may balance them out without taking something that will cripple them away.

Anywho, I dont have much problem with them since Im testing a radarfit which is able to spot any scout cloaked or not, my only downside is i cant hide from them at the same time, which in turn is why im unable to constantly ruin scouts plans, (which is good) I dont want 100% counter to them, though some wps for bring a dedicated radar would be nice, not sure how but yeah.

I tried to keep it short, just my thoughts.

What do scout users think of that?, no need to be nasty about either. Sacrificing either stealthiness, or your scanning precision depending on your scout suit. So that you dont have both, instead of a damage, slot or something else nerf?

I think it sounds reasonable

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Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14053	Posted - 2014.04.01 20:03:00 - [421] - Quote I haven't poked dennie or any other test groups about testing but as it seems now most of this conversation is likely going have to shift to next patch talk now. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
jerrmy12 kahoalii 830	Posted - 2014.04.01 20:10:00 - [422] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I haven't poked dennie or any other test groups about testing but as it seems now most of this conversation is likely going have to shift to next patch talk now. So....shield extender and shield heavy buffs....... And nerf shield heavues armor and reduce gallente and amar shields Buff minmatar and caldari shields if buffing values, by 50 or 100, or something. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 12	Posted - 2014.04.01 21:25:00 - [423] - Quote Been testing out bpo dragonfly scout suit, fitting even the most basic junk on it and still being able to take out protos, and advanced. Running basic cloak, militia shotty, militia cpu module. Cost 4k total. No skills into shotguns or scout suits. It seems scouts have the best of both worlds stealthy and damage, though its the stealth which allows them to get in close to cause the damage. So doing something to one or the other wont work in my eyes. The problem seems to be that other suits need to lose all the modules they usually use in place of profile amps and precisions just to see them or try to hide from them. They need to either be hard to find, or be able spot enemies easily, not both least not on the same suit. Make 2 suits good at hiding and 2 good at spotting. I know people are going to say they are scouts and thats there role, but i think taking one advantage away like that may balance them out without taking something that will cripple them away. Anywho, I dont have much problem with them since Im testing a radarfit which is able to spot any scout cloaked or not, my only downside is i cant hide from them at the same time, which in turn is why im unable to constantly ruin scouts plans, (which is good) I dont want 100% counter to them, though some wps for bring a dedicated radar would be nice, not sure how but yeah. I tried to keep it short, just my thoughts. What do scout users think of that?, no need to be nasty about either. Sacrificing either stealthiness, or your scanning precision depending on your scout suit. So that you dont have both, instead of a damage, slot or something else nerf? I think it sounds reasonable
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 202	Posted - 2014.04.01 21:33:00 - [424] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Ares 514 wrote: Enough bitching about the cloak, I hope you don't listen to the vocal few. The majority of players I speak with feel it's fairly balanced. I guess in the end CCP probably listens to you as much as us so it's all good. Funny thing cause the majority of the people that I speak with thinks that the cloak is a joke. Most use it to adapt with the times but are definitely aware of the tweeks that are needed. The Caldari master race graciously equipped its scouts with a advanced sensor package that shames other nations for even trying to cloak. Cloaks are not OP by any means. All hail the State and the x2 complex precision enhancers and range amps. & justice for all
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 148	Posted - 2014.04.01 22:34:00 - [425] - Quote I think cloaks are in a good spot. I was worried initially, but they seem to be fairly balanced. I hadn't played since July of last year and had a blast recently. As an old-school SG Scout, I have 0 change in my battle effectiveness from July. This means that the changes that made the Scout even more difficult to play has been balanced against the changes that made it easier. At least to me. However the primary difference I see is not in the stats I am achieving, but in the fun of the play. When I die now, it's not when I had the jump on a guy, shot him in the face twice, yet still got mowed down in 2 seconds by an AR. When I die now, it's because my opponent out-played me or I did something that ended up a bad idea in hindsight. On the counter of this, when I kill someone, I still earn it. Only now when I use every variable in my favor it usually works out, well in my favor. I couldn't believe all the QQ on here about cloaks after playing them for a week and thinking to myself that it was actually done pretty well. ( I was worried before implementation that they had pre-nerfed them too hard from what I had read). Anyways, that's my thoughts on it being a career SG Scout and having data from July and now to compare to. Old Tactics from July - Sit in a corner of a niche or wall, wait for someone to run past, sneak up from behind and try to get the kill. Occasionally use RE's in a variety of ways to get the odd kill or so. New Tactics from last week - Run to an objective, ( I typically play skirmish), cloak just before arrival. Move slowly as to not attract too much attention. Sneak up behind player and try to get the kill. Occasionally use RE's in a variety of ways to get kills. So as you see, it's the same tactic but the difference is that I can actually play the objectives now, instead of being a wall camper that does nothing to benefit the team goal. The old style forced a playstyle that was not fun as it equated fishing. Now I can actually stay in the action. Same tactics, same danger with one misstep and your dead, only now I can use my tactic anywhere on the battleground as long as I plan ahead. I still die trying to sneak up and getting spotted, or even die from accidental damage, or the occasional missed SG shot from point blank (doh). To be clear, I am not sure how much stock I put into the "brick tanked" Scouts most QQ on. While I don't run much in the way of armor or shield extenders it doesn't seem possible to have a Scout at EHP 600, but I have never tried. I run KinCats and Cloaks, speed/stealth, and it's now fun again instead of constant frustration. Believe me you would quit too if you do everything right and get all the variables in your favor and still get killed simply because some guy with an AR turned around and pressed fire. Shotguns have such short range you need a way to get close to even make them viable. Smart players still identify a SG user and move back, which will usually turn the tide in their favor unless I have the speed to stay in their face, (can't sprint and shoot after all). All the cloak does is protect me from getting killed a mile away by 3 AR rounds and allow me to set the surprise variable where cover isn't an option. It still requires planning and careful maneuvering. The surprise variable is needed as even my proto Scout only has 225 or so EHP and can't survive closing a gap to make the SG effective should they see me more than 10 feet away. I have always stacked two proto kincats before and after cloaking. Btw, cloaked Scouts are still pretty easy to see if they are in front of you. Cloaking just allows you to sneak a bit more effectively in the midst of confusion, or when working a flanking path without being spotted. I have killed many a cloaked Scout who thought they could just run at me. The single biggest benefit is allowing me to remain unseen as I actually take a flanking route, instead of seeing me a mile away and being able to kill me practically instantly. Try flanking one guy in the midst of a battle and see how far you get without a cloak and 3 hits kills you. Someone will see you and fire your way and your dead before you hear the shots. The speed I boost allows me to plan and act on a flanking route quickly. I suppose you could tank your Scout but then you can't boost speed, meaning you will not be able to flank as effectively thereby limiting your cloaks usefulness as people will still see you running at them head on. Seems pretty balanced.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1087	Posted - 2014.04.01 22:50:00 - [426] - Quote Cloaks need a Pg/CPU increase to make them harder to fit on to her suits. Scouts need a corresponding bonus to keep them at the current PG/CPU consumption at level 5. Cloaks should not reduce scan profile. If you want to do that, fit dampeners. Cloaks should decloak from fluxes. This gives other suits a chance to clear an area of scouts, and gives a hard counter to them. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 846	Posted - 2014.04.01 22:53:00 - [427] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cloaks need a Pg/CPU increase to make them harder to fit on to her suits. Scouts need a corresponding bonus to keep them at the current PG/CPU consumption at level 5. Cloaks should not reduce scan profile. If you want to do that, fit dampeners. Cloaks should decloak from fluxes. This gives other suits a chance to clear an area of scouts, and gives a hard counter to them. Then fix cloaking in dark areas and make the shimmer less when crouch walking Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 654	Posted - 2014.04.01 22:56:00 - [428] - Quote It is funny to see anyone is upset. The cloak is very balanced. It is very easy to spot a cloaked player if you just pay attention. I am almost worried some people have figured out a tint setting on their TV that makes that blue shimmer even more obvious than it already is. Spotting cloaked players by scans does happen, and lights them up for your whole squad to see. Paying attention to your cursor going red, or seeing a strange shimmer on the side of the screen sets people apart. Some are observant and some are not. The cloak has added well balanced fun, new tactics, and methods of finding your role on the battlefield. With all the people that see me quite easily at long range, I almost think it needs the blue shimmer toned down slightly, or maybe just only toned down when crouched. Making a reason for them to creep around while crouched to reduce shimmer would make the stealth even more fun. If it isn't already doing it and I just run around too much... Fix any bugs of course, but I hope the cloak doesn't get changed. It is very well balanced and a great view of things to come.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1088	Posted - 2014.04.01 23:08:00 - [429] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Cloaks need a Pg/CPU increase to make them harder to fit on to her suits. Scouts need a corresponding bonus to keep them at the current PG/CPU consumption at level 5. Cloaks should not reduce scan profile. If you want to do that, fit dampeners. Cloaks should decloak from fluxes. This gives other suits a chance to clear an area of scouts, and gives a hard counter to them. Then fix cloaking in dark areas and make the shimmer less when crouch walking I am agreeable to this. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Paul Ellinas Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.04.01 23:10:00 - [430] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: It is funny to see anyone is upset. The cloak is very balanced. It is very easy to spot a cloaked player if you just pay attention. I am almost worried some people have figured out a tint setting on their TV that makes that blue shimmer even more obvious than it already is. Spotting cloaked players by scans does happen, and lights them up for your whole squad to see. Paying attention to your cursor going red, or seeing a strange shimmer on the side of the screen sets people apart. Some are observant and some are not. The cloak has added well balanced fun, new tactics, and methods of finding your role on the battlefield. With all the people that see me quite easily at long range, I almost think it needs the blue shimmer toned down slightly, or maybe just only toned down when crouched. Making a reason for them to creep around while crouched to reduce shimmer would make the stealth even more fun. If it isn't already doing it and I just run around too much... Fix any bugs of course, but I hope the cloak doesn't get changed. It is very well balanced and a great view of things to come. Scouts with 700armor and 120shields and a clock are OP. A scout(a light frame drop suite) should not have the possibility to tank HP like assaults.

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 1089	Posted - 2014.04.01 23:42:00 - [431] - Quote Brick tanking is a problem with all suits. We only pay attention to the scouts because they also have cloaks. We need to fix brick tanking. I'd say up the PG cost of plates (since they are supposed to be PG heavy, and currently cost the same PG as extenders.) Which will require making sacrifices in order to stack that much health, like crap weapons, etc. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 970	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:19:00 - [432] - Quote anaboop wrote: Been testing out bpo dragonfly scout suit, fitting even the most basic junk on it and still being able to take out protos, and advanced. Running basic cloak, militia shotty, militia cpu module. Cost 4k total. No skills into shotguns or scout suits. It seems scouts have the best of both worlds stealthy and damage, though its the stealth which allows them to get in close to cause the damage. So doing something to one or the other wont work in my eyes. The problem seems to be that other suits need to lose all the modules they usually use in place of profile amps and precisions just to see them or try to hide from them. They need to either be hard to find, or be able spot enemies easily, not both least not on the same suit. Make 2 suits good at hiding and 2 good at spotting. I know people are going to say they are scouts and thats there role, but i think taking one advantage away like that may balance them out without taking something that will cripple them away. Anywho, I dont have much problem with them since Im testing a radarfit which is able to spot any scout cloaked or not, my only downside is i cant hide from them at the same time, which in turn is why im unable to constantly ruin scouts plans, (which is good) I dont want 100% counter to them, though some wps for bring a dedicated radar would be nice, not sure how but yeah. I tried to keep it short, just my thoughts. What do scout users think of that?, no need to be nasty about either. Sacrificing either stealthiness, or your scanning precision depending on your scout suit. So that you dont have both, instead of a damage, slot or something else nerf? I think it sounds reasonable if your good at spotting then u should be good at hiding as well becuase the scout would have a cloak and be able to see enemy positions thus hiding Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 970	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:23:00 - [433] - Quote Paul Ellinas wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: It is funny to see anyone is upset. The cloak is very balanced. It is very easy to spot a cloaked player if you just pay attention. I am almost worried some people have figured out a tint setting on their TV that makes that blue shimmer even more obvious than it already is. Spotting cloaked players by scans does happen, and lights them up for your whole squad to see. Paying attention to your cursor going red, or seeing a strange shimmer on the side of the screen sets people apart. Some are observant and some are not. The cloak has added well balanced fun, new tactics, and methods of finding your role on the battlefield. With all the people that see me quite easily at long range, I almost think it needs the blue shimmer toned down slightly, or maybe just only toned down when crouched. Making a reason for them to creep around while crouched to reduce shimmer would make the stealth even more fun. If it isn't already doing it and I just run around too much... Fix any bugs of course, but I hope the cloak doesn't get changed. It is very well balanced and a great view of things to come. Scouts with 700armor and 120shields and a clock are OP. A scout(a light frame drop suite) should not have the possibility to tank HP like assaults. if you have the skills into the 5% to pg/cpu reduction than they easily can, so even if they do, they can still stack HP effectivly Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
GTA V FTW 217	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:27:00 - [434] - Quote On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 847	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:28:00 - [435] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer. gtfo gta fanboy. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 12	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:37:00 - [436] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: if your good at spotting then u should be good at hiding as well becuase the scout would have a cloak and be able to see enemy positions thus hiding Yeah I dont deny that, but they should have one or the other decreased based on what suit they use, as tonot be totally effective in both.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2737	Posted - 2014.04.02 00:44:00 - [437] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: It is funny to see anyone is upset. The cloak is very balanced. It is very easy to spot a cloaked player if you just pay attention. I am almost worried some people have figured out a tint setting on their TV that makes that blue shimmer even more obvious than it already is. Spotting cloaked players by scans does happen, and lights them up for your whole squad to see. Paying attention to your cursor going red, or seeing a strange shimmer on the side of the screen sets people apart. Some are observant and some are not. The cloak has added well balanced fun, new tactics, and methods of finding your role on the battlefield. With all the people that see me quite easily at long range, I almost think it needs the blue shimmer toned down slightly, or maybe just only toned down when crouched. Making a reason for them to creep around while crouched to reduce shimmer would make the stealth even more fun. If it isn't already doing it and I just run around too much... Fix any bugs of course, but I hope the cloak doesn't get changed. It is very well balanced and a great view of things to come. Why is everyone suggesting to pay attention to the crosshair turning red as the counter for spotting cloaks. It sounds good in theory but practically, you can't afford to be concentrating on your crosshair all the time. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts)
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 970	Posted - 2014.04.02 01:12:00 - [438] - Quote why not just increase armor plates pg and make the decloak sound louder only armor plates since the other plates have reasonable pg/cpu requirements. trying to nerf multiple things just becuase of one thing that can be fixed will just cause more problems for us Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 970	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:42:00 - [439] - Quote so why not just force the animation to show up and we wont have this problem all the time and you will be forced to uncloak completely Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Tek Hound Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 184	Posted - 2014.04.02 03:59:00 - [440] - Quote Very sad..cloak is alright if anything it needs a buff. The problem with cloak is the lack of the community skill/ willingness to change from their pew pew tactics. Just one big l2p issue nothing more. 1.Lonewolf randomly running around /get picked off 2 .Teammate dies next to you and you still have tunnel vision /get picked off 3.No communication form team /get picked off 4.Dont want to use what was give to you to find them /get picked off 5.just want to pew pew with no concern about you surroundings/get picked off 6.Cant see the shimmer/get your eye checked

GTA V FTW 217	Posted - 2014.04.02 11:50:00 - [441] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer. gtfo gta fanboy. Oh and killstreaks are for noobs. Funny, and cloaks are for....................highly skilled players who need to be invisible as to not show everyone their mad skillzzzzz. Pfff please. As stated above, epic fail from a LOL developer.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 14061	Posted - 2014.04.02 18:03:00 - [442] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer. gtfo gta fanboy. Oh and killstreaks are for noobs. Funny, and cloaks are for....................highly skilled players who need to be invisible as to not show everyone their mad skillzzzzz. Pfff please. As stated above, epic fail from a LOL developer. League of Legends? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2427	Posted - 2014.04.02 18:47:00 - [443] - Quote I was thinking about this some more and I think I have a decent solution without a lot of work required. If you pull the trigger with the cloak out you use it and go cloaked (i assume, i havent used it persay) and start using your cloak energy. If you pull the trigger while cloaked you uncloak and it recharges normally. If you pull out your weapon while cloaked, you destabilize the field, forcing the unit to purge its internal capacitor (i.e. you lose all stored cloak energy) and the unit has to go through a 3-5 second restart cycle at which point it can start charging again. So you still give scouts the ability to swap out of cloak but you make them pay a price for it. Risk vs. Reward - a very 'New Eden' philosophy.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1887	Posted - 2014.04.02 18:57:00 - [444] - Quote ^ This is a really good idea. +1
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 367	Posted - 2014.04.02 18:59:00 - [445] - Quote The camouflage is just good enough in certain settings and lighting to justify the fittings cost. It would be a lot more useful if you could be fully invisible when holding still. Maybe the better cloak could have higher fitting requirements than the current Predator Camouflage (which is pretty cool). There will be bullets. ACR+SMG
jerrmy12 kahoalii 854	Posted - 2014.04.02 19:03:00 - [446] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer. gtfo gta fanboy. Oh and killstreaks are for noobs. Funny, and cloaks are for....................highly skilled players who need to be invisible as to not show everyone their mad skillzzzzz. Pfff please. As stated above, epic fail from a LOL developer. Lol if you cant see the cloak you are a ****** (you cant see the cloak) Just gtfo kid no one wants you here. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 13	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:08:00 - [447] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I was thinking about this some more and I think I have a decent solution without a lot of work required. If you pull the trigger with the cloak out you use it and go cloaked (i assume, i havent used it persay) and start using your cloak energy. If you pull the trigger while cloaked you uncloak and it recharges normally. If you pull out your weapon while cloaked, you destabilize the field, forcing the unit to purge its internal capacitor (i.e. you lose all stored cloak energy) and the unit has to go through a 3-5 second restart cycle at which point it can start charging again. So you still give scouts the ability to swap out of cloak but you make them pay a price for it. Risk vs. Reward - a very 'New Eden' philosophy. Only thing I can see with this is, hit uncloak, fast change to weapon and bang. It would still require the forced animation, otherwise it would force everyones cloak to destabilize. I would rather see for example gall and cal have the same profile scan, with a lower precision(so they cant find people as good), then amar and mini having a higher precision but higher profile scan to see them easier. (Which suits get which bonus and hinder is upto ccp). But I believe that will help out with all the scouts and lower there brick tanking unless they either want to be found or be unable to spot others, or by putting on there damps amps or precisions on. Edit, suits that use shield more should have precision hindered thus needing precisons enhancers, where armor should have there scan profile hindered thus needing damps, or vise versa.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2430	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:13:00 - [448] - Quote anaboop wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I was thinking about this some more and I think I have a decent solution without a lot of work required. If you pull the trigger with the cloak out you use it and go cloaked (i assume, i havent used it persay) and start using your cloak energy. If you pull the trigger while cloaked you uncloak and it recharges normally. If you pull out your weapon while cloaked, you destabilize the field, forcing the unit to purge its internal capacitor (i.e. you lose all stored cloak energy) and the unit has to go through a 3-5 second restart cycle at which point it can start charging again. So you still give scouts the ability to swap out of cloak but you make them pay a price for it. Risk vs. Reward - a very 'New Eden' philosophy. Only thing I can see with this is, hit uncloak, fast change to weapon and bang. It would still require the forced animation, otherwise it would force everyones cloak to destabilize. . I'm not exactly sure what you mean. The idea is that if you want to save your cloak you need to hit the module again to decloak. It would be a forced animation that doesn't let you swap to a weapon until the animation is complete.
anaboop NECROM0NGERS Caps and Mercs 13	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:17:00 - [449] - Quote With forced animation it makes sense, its just it wasnt mentioned in the post.
Tek Hound Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 202	Posted - 2014.04.02 20:32:00 - [450] - Quote GTA V FTW wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: GTA V FTW wrote: On the table, when are we getting kill streaks? I called that this would happen. LOL fail developer will always be a fail developer. gtfo gta fanboy. Oh and killstreaks are for noobs. Funny, and cloaks are for....................highly skilled players who need to be invisible as to not show everyone their mad skillzzzzz. Pfff please. As stated above, epic fail from a LOL developer. Epic fail for the skill level of the community. Needs something nerf because they can't adapt.



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