Then don't explain it.....I adapted to it last build and I'm happy it's in the tank now. Anything in between will make no difference to me.

I'm glad you like a horrible idea. Come on, this tank issue has been around forever with logis and nothing was ever done about it. People from eve ***** and wine about dual tanking for whatever dumb reason.

The real issue is balance among the various mods. The basic armour plate is way to cheap CPU / PG wise as others have stated. Some of the non hp modules are way to expensive. The shield extenders scale horribly. Fix the mods.

I like people who think and see the bigger meta that is evolving.

That idea is pretty bad though - its only regular armour plates that are an issue - ferroscales and reactives are expensive enough for what they do. Shield tanking is only a 'threat' on Cal scouts - and that is only used because the Assaults are in such a bad position, not because it is OP or unbalanced in anyway really.

Really, balancing regular armour plating would ease this problem and so many others...

EDIT:'Sorry, just seen above post.

My question is should all scouts have similar fitting issues to the minmatar or should minmatar be brought up to the rest of the class?

IWS check pyrex's 1.8 review. he is great at judging patches

wont load...

There was the idea of running the cloak off your shield HP as a timer, meaning modular cloaking times + brick tanking becoming useless in combination with cloaking suits.

Not sure how its practical but Ill just repost it.

So anyways weekend almost over time to focus the discussion a bit. (yes we're working against a clock in which I don't know the time line either here too btw)

We're still pending what to do with the cloaks but some of the changes won't be possible without code of course such as the damage drain if implemented is likely one of those that won't get hot fixed.

So changes if any should involve timers, scout bonuses, fitting of the cloak itself.

About brick tanks

I feel that overall the brick tank issue is bigger than everything here and in its own right deserves its own discussion however this topic is also rather large and may take a comprehensive look and pass thus not applicable in the near time hotfix period ccp is working with so far. So this is a discussion best saved for '1.9' development and not 1.8 hotfixing.

*Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits)

Cloak Fitting

So with those off the table. We come to the cloak itself.
CCP stated they didn't want cloaks to be scout only tool.
They also stated that they don't want it to make it seem every scouts MUST fit a cloak as well.
These two are most likely going to restrict any changes in the cloak fitting itself

Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting.

Scouts are enjoying the new freedoms they have and honestly I don't see the issue with this. Just as one person puts it a scout gives up nearly nothing to cloak. Only in the more extreme cases are scouts are forced to go tank (unfortunate result of the current imbalance of tank vs utility fitting) So I am a rather apprehensive about adjusting the scouts fitting; too much damage can occur.

So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down.

So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this.

The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks.

I am uncertain this is hotfix able to be honest and it's something to continue discussion on about as well.
You have to remember I am a stalker type scout back before cloaks came about; any changes to this will not effect my game style at all. Its the vanguard (front line fighters) that will have the most issues as they often have to decloak in front of enemies pointing guns at them and I am terrible at that role. I know how frustrating the game used to be when you commanded a weapon swap and it there was a time delay in the swap I don't want that feeling to return. But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top.

There is also the the speed of the decloak not matching the time to action. While I am unsure what change it would do for the non cloakers the non cloakers think its going to save them. (based on the killing I've been seeing it won't) I guess the point here is that there is a frustration of people getting killed by invisible people.

I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed.

cloak shimmer rate
overall a more minor issue but even then I don't think one can achieve a hotfix with this as well.

Cloak Charge

Overall this doesn't seem hotfix able when you involve damage prospects. Maybe for 1.9 but for now I don't see it being a feasible trait to add without a ptch.

What can change is the rate of recharge and consumption.

There isn't much discussion about it but a good cloaker can manage their chargers for a very long time and I am afraid to bring any changes to this outside of new variants but I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like.

Stealthiness
Cloaks are considered very powerful stealth tools able to dodge a number of scans, while scanners await their fix there is now the debate should cloaks provide any stealthing? Overall I am fine with it as is as it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well.

So TL;DR

Off the table.
*Minmatar fitting underpar should be forwarded, let ccp figure the numbers out for that.
*Brick Tanking is off the table. Better suited for 1.9 discussion due to size and complexity of subject
*Cloak Charge bar being externally altered by other players.
*Potential Shimmer
*Cloak Stealth Mechanics

On the table
*Cloak fitting is on the table still.
*Cloak decloak speed.
*Cloak charge rate internally
*Cloak electronic stealth value

Updated Op with change in discussion.

The fitting amount on cloaks seem reasonable to other equipment. Reducing this does not address any issues you have raised if anything it makes it more likely they brick tank further by putting a cheap basic armour plate on instead of say a ferrascale.

@Iron Wolf Saber, regarding your last wall of text:

I noticed alot of "I feel" as in your personnal opinion pretty much dictating what appears that is what you will be presenting to CCP. You are susposed to be a voice of communication between the players and CCP. but it seems as though your going to tell CCP what they should or shouldn't hotfix based solely on your playstyle. Perhaps I misinterpretated your text, but that is my "opinion" I gathered from reading your text.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdsaFt4gnjY

lol

yeah its his video stopping at 4 seconds in and stalls loading.

If anything, the cloak is too easy for other suits to fit. It is not easy for a scout to fit a proto cloak unless you are proto and fully skilled out.

If you aren't max core skills and lv 5 scout, you are not going to have an easy time fitting a cloak without making a sacrifice. The ninja scout in particular can either speed tank, or stealth tank. You can't do both, and this is with core skills 5.

The real problems here are unfinished assault suit stats, and armor plating usage.


Other than that- the cloak QQ is just that.. QQ. There is no question that the cloak is very visible to visual ID, and that using your reticule to sweep an area makes it bang on easy to find cloakers. If you can't see or find a cloaker, then you have to readjust how you pay attention to your surroundings in game. That is the only other problem aside from the glitches. Players being too lazy to use their eyeballs.


It is way too soon to talk about changing the cloak. This is just a hysterical response to something that is new, and also glitched right now. Fix the bugs first.

Nerfing is OP, bug fixing is UP. Way too UP.

i find it humerous that i have crappy connection and i can watch his video reatedly and you probably have great internet connection and it wwont load for you

Its not that its "Overpowered" its more the fact you can
1) Have Your Cake and Eat it when it comes to fitting - That is patently false. Even at max skills you do not have carte blanche. You do have a lot more choices than someone with avg to low skill- in which case serious concessions have to be made for an ADV cloak. A proto cloak insures a low SP user has nothing but that cloak.

2) Kill someone while still being cloaked (you can say its QQ but until you actually try shooting an invisible scout with MORE health than you won't understand) - That is not possible aside from a glitch that was not intended. I agree though. that glitch needs hot fixing immediately. The way a cloak works as intended, you have a half second from cloak to weapon switch. It works well with a shotgun due to the 5m buffer you can put inbetween yourself and the target. However, with knives you have to create that buffer yourself, so you will be attacking after being uncloaked for about 3 seconds or so. And even then it's a frame rate horror to even deal with.


Also CCP built it so you weren't meant to do that, which is problem. - Thus it is a glitch.

Its those who are complaining they keep getting shot in the back that are QQing because the cloak is meant to facilitate that, being shot in the face, not so much.