DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:

Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

Personally I think they did a fair job of balancing the cloak. Most tears come from oversaturation of the role due to it being new equipment. Anything seems ridiculous in high volumes. This is a new toy and everyone wants to play with it. I want to be very very sure nothing is done in classic CCP fashion as a ridiculous nerf due to the tears of the loud sections of our playerbase.

I agree that there should be different variants for different jobs and playstyles. The weapon switch in my opinion is about perfect. It's not too short and not too long. I think most people have problems with the cloaks and shotguns. For any other weapon that requires you to actually aim a little bit the decloak time is perfect.

Also we must consider that currently even the minmatar has a lot of trouble in the fitting department. An increase in cloak cost will make this suit which already has extremely low HP even weaker and harder to fit. You can barely fit a basic cloak on an adv minmatar even if you use mostly e-war and regen mods.

I think Moody is spot on with this.

The cloak is balanced pretty well and it's a really nice addition to the game. The most significant piece we need to address is the flux/damage effects on cloaking. I think Flux should take a big bite out of the timer and at some point direct damage should effect the visibility.

My recommendation is that when he scout takes damage while cloaked they shimmer at the same level as when they are in full sprint.

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jerrmy12 kahoalii 765	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:45:00 - [181] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Personally I think they did a fair job of balancing the cloak. Most tears come from oversaturation of the role due to it being new equipment. Anything seems ridiculous in high volumes. This is a new toy and everyone wants to play with it. I want to be very very sure nothing is done in classic CCP fashion as a ridiculous nerf due to the tears of the loud sections of our playerbase. I agree that there should be different variants for different jobs and playstyles. The weapon switch in my opinion is about perfect. It's not too short and not too long. I think most people have problems with the cloaks and shotguns. For any other weapon that requires you to actually aim a little bit the decloak time is perfect. Also we must consider that currently even the minmatar has a lot of trouble in the fitting department. An increase in cloak cost will make this suit which already has extremely low HP even weaker and harder to fit. You can barely fit a basic cloak on an adv minmatar even if you use mostly e-war and regen mods. I think Moody is spot on with this. The cloak is balanced pretty well and it's a really nice addition to the game. The most significant piece we need to address is the flux/damage effects on cloaking. I think Flux should take a big bite out of the timer and at some point direct damage should effect the visibility. My recommendation is that when he scout takes damage while cloaked they shimmer at the same level as when they are in full sprint. Has anybody done a cloaking vid two enemies, 1 records 1 cloaks, walks, and sprints that kind of thing...on a non super bright map. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Tupni Capital Acquisitions LLC Dirt Nap Squad. 78	Posted - 2014.03.28 21:56:00 - [182] - Quote I want to keep logi bonus to cloaks because it amuses me and doesn't seem like it would hurt anything. Also I don't want scouts to literally have a monopoly on one particular equipment and also access to everything else. I mean 2 equipment slots on a scout at level one?? They're basically little speed logis that can also 1 hit kill everything. Also, petition for cloaks reducing the user's shields a bit. Having a shield and a cloak both at full capacity should cause interference to one another, and thus it's sensible that the cloak dampens the shield (temporarily 'damaging' it a set amount, say 60 hp maximum?). This serves as a nerf to the cloak, giving non-scout players a better chance of successfully defeating a scout before it can 1 hit them (though only if they see it and thus not fundamentally altering the framework of the cloak), puts the Caldari scout down a peg, gives the Amarr and Gal a mild edge, and the Mins just get a little weaker but why not say hey they're exempt because I feel bad for them and their heretical ways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13894	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:37:00 - [183] - Quote So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 45	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:40:00 - [184] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' honestly, prefer cloaks slow me down a few %, and maybe being able to walk with the slimmer less visible(more of a sliding scale then off/on switch)
jerrmy12 kahoalii 767	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:41:00 - [185] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' No... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Samantha Hunyz G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 90	Posted - 2014.03.28 22:43:00 - [186] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' CCP's vision of the cloak was you could use it to cross an area safely or to get away from a hot area. The current way it works, you can do both easily back to back. Decloaking should reset the fuel to 0. This way you can use either one way or the other, but not constantly spam and crutch on the cloak. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13897	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:23:00 - [187] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' CCP's vision of the cloak was you could use it to cross an area safely or to get away from a hot area. The current way it works, you can do both easily back to back. Decloaking should reset the fuel to 0. This way you can use either one way or the other, but not constantly spam and crutch on the cloak. The thing is I doubt I can get ccp to shift to a 'consume all fuel' they're pretty set on the 'cloak management' idea and to be honest I have no intention of even fancying the idea. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Eko Sol Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 134	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:32:00 - [188] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' CCP's vision of the cloak was you could use it to cross an area safely or to get away from a hot area. The current way it works, you can do both easily back to back. Decloaking should reset the fuel to 0. This way you can use either one way or the other, but not constantly spam and crutch on the cloak. The thing is I doubt I can get ccp to shift to a 'consume all fuel' they're pretty set on the 'cloak management' idea and to be honest I have no intention of even fancying the idea. I would argue that fuel consumption for decloaking is extremely valid. How about cutting remaining time in half so it's always under 50% and can't be reactivated instantly?
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 104	Posted - 2014.03.28 23:38:00 - [189] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' I don't think cloaks should use fuel to de-cloak. On my scout suit, which I only have 200 ehp, de-cloaking to take out an uplink, get the drop on an enemy, or to simply make a quick escape has definitely improved my survivability. For the most part, if anyone sees me, my 200 ehp is gone in a split second. Managing cloak fuel is a part of cloaking tactic but I hope there is another method to reduce cloaking and brick scout abuse.
Alaskan Ganja Nos Nothi 10	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:13:00 - [190] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' Actually that sounds perfect. Maybe something like decloaking takes off 1/4th of the "fuel". Makes it so if you really need to cloak to get out of a sticky situation you get one chance to cloak after decloaking once. Don't mind me I'm just Some Alaskan. Total Hatemails received: Less than or equal to 5.

Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1988	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:15:00 - [191] - Quote Here's another possible solution - you can't engage your cloak if there are hostiles within 10 meters...or some other non-trivial range. That lets a scout skirmish on the edge of the a big firefight and take out people who stray too far from their friends and kill solitary defenders before hacking a point. But it'd also stop them from going all Ninja Gaiden and killing an entire army by themselves. If you want to drop your cloak in the middle of a red squad and survive you better have a well thought out escape plan.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1843	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:33:00 - [192] - Quote Yan Darn wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Glitches obviously need to be fixed, but glitches are glitches. Moving while cloaked is easy to see. Flux grenades should fully drain a cloaks recharge meter thing. I haven't used them personally, so I can't really comment on the rest. You shouldn't be decloaked from damage. Brick tanking is a problem that CCP has been creating for a while, and they only further encouraged it with the 1.8 TTK changes. The damage and flux I like, the glitches needs to be fixed but this is just common sense. As for brick tanking that is not a scout problem, this is a general problem due to bad module distribution and nothing better than HP modules. This. The problem of cloaks isn't just abot cloaks. It's not even about scouts. It's about a lot of other issues with the fittings meta as well. Also, assaults need to be better at assaulting - that would help alleviate scout/cloak spam. Without the spam, QQ should be reduced. Just please - I'm sure I'm not the only scout who was apprehensive about our role bonus being tied to one specific piece of equipment. I'd seriously prefer CCP ditched it and gave us another role bonus, rather than watch it go through a ridiculous nerf/buff cycle. Alternatively, create more ways to counter cloaks. wut. . . . You do realize that you kept the previous bonus, reduced scan profile, right? Only now it is innate to the suit, rather than the skill. That makes the cloak bonus far superior to having a 45 dB Scout and 33 dB Gallente Scout. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 841	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:54:00 - [193] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: My question is should all scouts have similar fitting issues to the minmatar or should minmatar be brought up to the rest of the class? I think all scouts should have fitting issues. Sacrifices should be made. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' No. I think the fact you can't recloak with cloak stamina lower than 50% is plenty enough counter to always switching back and forth. There have been a number of times I have been forced to hide and wait for my cloak to recharge or head into the fray undampened. Looking for the scout hangout?
Samantha Hunyz G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 94	Posted - 2014.03.29 00:58:00 - [194] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Samantha Hunyz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' CCP's vision of the cloak was you could use it to cross an area safely or to get away from a hot area. The current way it works, you can do both easily back to back. Decloaking should reset the fuel to 0. This way you can use either one way or the other, but not constantly spam and crutch on the cloak. The thing is I doubt I can get ccp to shift to a 'consume all fuel' they're pretty set on the 'cloak management' idea and to be honest I have no intention of even fancying the idea. If they want it to be managed time, it kinda fits into there wave of opportunity they have going for vehicles. Simple fix is to either reduce the active times, or slow the regen, or tweeks to both. As it stands, cloak scouts stay cloaked far to long and often to give other players a chance to catch them uncloaked. Reminds me of the infite scans we had prior to 1.8, no drawback. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Eddie Rio The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 93	Posted - 2014.03.29 01:08:00 - [195] - Quote I think the cloaks are fine (other than the bug where you can run around with your knives out cloaked after hacking a point).. I personally feel it would be best to wait until the novelty wears off a bit and the 'dust' of 1.8 settles before making any rash changes... My YouTube
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 944	Posted - 2014.03.29 01:20:00 - [196] - Quote Eddie Rio wrote: I think the cloaks are fine (other than the bug where you can run around with your knives out cloaked after hacking a point).. I personally feel it would be best to wait until the novelty wears off a bit and the 'dust' of 1.8 settles before making any rash changes... ikr, i dont know why people complain so much Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 476	Posted - 2014.03.29 01:31:00 - [197] - Quote I feel cloaks should behave more like camouflage, easy to miss if your not actually looking for it but totally recognizable if you are looking for it. Kind of like the Predator's cloak. I'm not fond of how you're essentially invisible when you stand still cloaked. No one is going to spot the virtually non-existent distortions, especially on dark maps. I feel cloaks should create a noticeable distortion when both standing still or moving without any shimmering, like the predator's cloak. As for cloaks persisting too well through damage, have to agree with Iron Wolf Saber. It's not fair to the guy who spots and shoots at a cloaked enemy. But it isn't fair for cloaked players who get hit by stray bullets either. There are some annoying bugs like where players can use their weapons while being cloaked indefinitely and being able to fire shots off before actually de-cloaking. I want cloaks in Dust514, but they could have done with more time in Santa's workshop getting it right. I've been told that people prefer fake smiles over the honest expressions of their fellow men. : )
Cotsy8 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 154	Posted - 2014.03.29 01:48:00 - [198] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' Can someone give me 5 reasons why cloaks are required. Can a scout not succeed without a cloak? Scouts were given a boost to modules, equipment in 1.8 so why was a cloak introduced on top of that, was it really needed? Show me how a cloak isn't being used to rewards poor gameplay or has to be used to get kills. Tell me why skillful play shouldn't be the reason you succeed rather than an easy button. Show me how the cloak isn't a crutch or an easy mode. Explain why it is required while providing an argument how it doesn't give players an advantage (offensively and defensively) with no drawbacks. If you must use more invalid arguments, you can use "eyes are OP" or "get good". I have not read a single supporting argument for a cloak to be in the game. I have clearly shown how it rewards poor gameplay and lowers the likelihood that terrible decisions are punished simply by turning it on.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:32:00 - [199] - Quote proof that our cloak isnt OP stop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Centurion mkII Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 208	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:33:00 - [200] - Quote I don't think cloaks are too hard to spot. I disagree with increasing the time between de cloaking and bringing out your weapon. As a scout a dropped my mag sec side arm when i choose to do damage i need to do it now. I think changes could be made to being damaged and then being seen. I approve the idea of it draining your cloak timer but it has to have a cap and no more. I need to be able to use my cloak later to hide once i've escaped. * I think current cloak timers are fine but am always eager for a variant. Cloaked hacking perhaps removed for turrets? On other objectives it makes since but on turrets you can't see them and can only guess where they are. I think besides * all things are fine people just need time and to look for sprinty purple squiggles. Edit: Also who are you to use words like "will not be tolerated". Your not some han solo on the forums only GMs/Devs can moderate the forums. Your statement was unnecessarily authoritative and an empty threat. It made me think poorly of you as a person.

Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:39:00 - [201] - Quote Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved. Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:43:00 - [202] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved. Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf. i agree but they dont need a buff or a nerf, the primary thing is kinda not right, but i do agrre that it shimmers too much at walking speeds and should be that bright for such a slow pace Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
byte modal 58	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:44:00 - [203] - Quote meow. Yeah, so I went crazy this afternoon and wrote a damn near blog over this mess and got carried away with it. Ended up just making another thread over yonder somewhere. With that said, here's the core comments based off the OP list here---at least the few that I thought were relevant. Shooting from Cloak I give on the animation speed to attack time. I canGÇÖt see it from my interface but if there is a bit of a delay on your side watching me de-cloak and you taking damage before the animation transition has finished then sure. Fix it. I am not trying to be a smart ass here, but if cloaked and you canGÇÖt see youGÇÖre attacker, how can you tell if he is firing before or after cloak drops? If you can actually see the transition then why not just shoot at the animated mess? ThatGÇÖs chicken or the egg stuff right there. Has anyone tested this with two players facing each other, one cloaked with test fire? So are you thinking to jam the gun for 1-3 seconds so that it is impossible to fire, or are you looking to shorten the animation of de-cloak to match the speed of a normal weapon swap allowing for full fire once the swap has been made? Cloak Removal on Damage No. But IGÇÖd be fine with a smidge more cloak interference with that honeycomb grid flaring just a bit more when shot. Someone mentioned predator before and I like that reference. Flux and Damage Disruption Allowing flux to disrupt the cloak visibility momentarily? I actually like that as a strategy. We freely toss them around corners, into rooms, and objectives if we think someone is there, so why not let that be a sort of flushing out for cloaks too? I donGÇÖt think cloak should be dropped, just disrupted---while our shields are depleted. Just keep in mind there should be a fine balance between weapons fire and flux disruption. The flux should just be enough to flush him out. If you miss the quick visual cue, oh well because heGÇÖs invisible again now and youGÇÖre in trouble. If you fire on the cloak, then the glimmer should be the same as when running with a few random honeycomb spikes in visibility for the duration of shots taken. I also do not think it necessary to dedicate a grenade spot to just disrupting cloaks. That's too demanding. Just let it play off flux and maybe later, for the logi class, there might be a dedicated equipment item as some have suggested to create a defensible area that disrupts or even removes cloak in proximity. That could work assuming later cloak builds offer more specialized tactics as the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy guy described. I'll find the post and link sooner or later. Cloak Noise From first person perspective, I absolutely love the sound dampening. We have sensors already and passive scan, so it might be fun to turn the ambient volume down a bit more and increase breathing volume or something to add to disorientation. That would take a bit more away from cloaked immediate situational awareness? If someone is firing (and missing) on us at range beyond our sensor/minimap view then we wouldnGÇÖt hear the missed GÇ£tingGÇ¥ of shots so common from sniper fire. That would be a subtle addition of risk, but one that seems cool and abstract. Brick Tanking This isnGÇÖt the cloakGÇÖs fault and belongs in a thread all of its own as this is really a huge problem that just happens to overlap some of the perceived issues with cloak at the moment. dramatically holds out hand, pauses, then drops drum sticks =^.^= Irony: Post #35
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:45:00 - [204] - Quote Cotsy8 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' Can someone give me 5 reasons why cloaks are required. Can a scout not succeed without a cloak? Scouts were given a boost to modules, equipment in 1.8 so why was a cloak introduced on top of that, was it really needed? Show me how a cloak isn't being used to rewards poor gameplay or has to be used to get kills. Tell me why skillful play shouldn't be the reason you succeed rather than an easy button. Show me how the cloak isn't a crutch or an easy mode. Explain why it is required while providing an argument how it doesn't give players an advantage (offensively and defensively) with no drawbacks. If you must use more invalid arguments, you can use "eyes are OP" or "get good". I have not read a single supporting argument for a cloak to be in the game. I have clearly shown how it rewards poor gameplay and lowers the likelihood that terrible decisions are punished simply by turning it on. why do you hate cloaks so much Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:48:00 - [205] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: proof that our cloak isnt OP stop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP ^this Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Samantha Hunyz G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 94	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:49:00 - [206] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: proof that our cloak isnt OP stop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP Just watch the linked video. 1st cloak uptime 10secs, quick regen. 2nd one was could regen while cloaked and not moving, but disabled the ability of equiping a primary weapon. Both had drawbacks for balance. Your video link trumped your post logic. Dust cloaks have fair quick regen and long uptime, with little drawback for a scout. This is why Dust 514 cloaks are OP. When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:50:00 - [207] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: Selinate deux wrote: Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved. Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf. i agree but they dont need a buff or a nerf, the primary thing is kinda not right, but i do agrre that it shimmers too much at walking speeds and should be that bright for such a slow pace The "primary thing" is exactly right and it satisfies the entire purpose of cloaking (infiltrating, hacking while behind enemy lines, espionage, precise and targeted killing), without making people shotgun gank machines in the middle of a battlefield. Scouts aren't meant to go toe to toe with assaults or heavies. You shouldn't be able to cloak, then uncloak with a shotgun and suddenly gank 5 people on the enemy line. As it is now, cloaking is just a broken mechanic. I have to sit completely still for no one to see me, and I have to have cloaked and become still before anyone had seen me also because otherwise, I'm just screwed if I'm not near decent cover (which for a lot of maps is most of the map). It should not be like this.
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:52:00 - [208] - Quote Samantha Hunyz wrote: knight guard fury wrote: proof that our cloak isnt OP stop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP Just watch the linked video. 1st cloak uptime 10secs, quick regen. 2nd one was could regen while cloaked and not moving, but disabled the ability of equiping a primary weapon. Both had drawbacks for balance. Your video link trumped your post logic. Dust cloaks have fair quick regen and long uptime, with little drawback for a scout. This is why Dust 514 cloaks are OP. watch the others Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
knight guard fury The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 946	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:55:00 - [209] - Quote Selinate deux wrote: knight guard fury wrote: Selinate deux wrote: Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved. Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf. i agree but they dont need a buff or a nerf, the primary thing is kinda not right, but i do agrre that it shimmers too much at walking speeds and should be that bright for such a slow pace The "primary thing" is exactly right and it satisfies the entire purpose of cloaking (infiltrating, hacking while behind enemyy lines, espionage, precise and targeted killing), without making people shotgun gank machines in the middle of a battlefield. Scouts aren't meant to go toe to toe with assaults or heavies. You shouldn't be able to cloak, then uncloak with a shotgun and suddenly gank 5 people on the enemy line. As it is now, cloaking is just a broken mechanic. I have to sit completely still for no one to see me, and I have to have cloaked and become still before anyone had seen me also because otherwise, I'm just screwed if I'm not near decent cover (which for a lot of maps is most of the map). It should not be like this. its not broken, planetside 2 allows you to to cloak completely invisible and kill people right after decloaking, and recloak soon after. cloaking should never replace the primary weapon because its not right and no other game has ever done it. give me one game that does what you just said. Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 123	Posted - 2014.03.29 02:57:00 - [210] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: its not broken, planetside 2 allows you to to cloak completely invisible and kill people right after decloaking, and recloak soon after. cloaking should never replace the primary weapon because its not right and no other game has ever done it. give me one game that does what you just said. Oh ffs, so that's your logic? That's a **** poor train of logic and you should feel bad. "No one has ever done it so we can't do it either because if no one has done it than it must be bad!" That makes absolutely zero sense. And if it's so incredibly important to you to know of a game that's done it like that, planetside 1 did. Just because planetside 2 does it one way does not mean a single damn thing in a completely different game.



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