Double Post, though in response to different point.

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@ Scouts, Bastards, Brothers

Would it be too much if the cloak's reserves were drained when its user is hit by flux grenade?

I can think of any number of scenarios wherein this one change would make things more interesting, for Scout and non-Scout alike. I can think of no scenario wherein it would render neutered every Scout in an area (i.e. old Active Scanners). The measure would address specific QQ scenarios (as in IWS's point defense scenario) while creating for us a new set of challenges and Scout-hunting opportunities.

Please list for me the downsides as you see them. I'd like to explore and discuss counterpoints to this specific measure.

Edit:
This request has been forwarded via crosslink to the Barbershop.
Bastard input and opinions are warmly welcomed. o7

Double Post, though in response to different point.

---

@ Scouts, Bastards, Brothers

Would it be too much if the cloak's reserves were drained when its user is hit by flux grenade?

I can think of any number of scenarios wherein this one change would make things more interesting, for Scout and non-Scout alike. I can think of no scenario wherein it would render neutered and defenseless every Scout in an area (i.e. old Active Scanners). The measure would address specific QQ scenarios (as in IWS's point defense scenario) while creating for us a new set of challenges and Scout-hunting opportunities.

Please list the downsides as you see them. I'd like to explore and discuss counterpoints to this specific measure.

Edit:
This request has been forwarded via crosslink to the Barbershop.
Bastard input and opinions are warmly welcomed. o7

What about how the Amarr Scout isn't that good as well on the E-War aspect? Why not give a slight buff to them?

Note: Edited the OP; the original can be found quoted below in other posts

*Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits)


Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting.

So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down.

So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this.

The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks.

But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top.

I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed.

Cloak Charge

I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like.

Stealthiness

Change remove cloak ability to dodge scanner: ... it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well.

So TL;DR

Off the table.
*Minmatar fitting underpar should be forwarded, let ccp figure the numbers out for that.
*Brick Tanking is off the table. Better suited for 1.9 discussion due to size and complexity of subject


On the table
*Cloak fitting is on the table still.
*Cloak decloak speed.
*Cloak charge rate internally
*Cloak electronic stealth value

Updated Op with change in discussion.

By "Off the Table" I think he means cannot be implemented via HotFix.

Slow Drain of reserves when under fire has been suggested.
Depletion of reserves when fluxed has been suggested.

...Stuff...

Nerfing the cloak Nerfs the Nano knifes again (so sad).

All those NERFS... Scouts will be the same as pre 1.8

I like the idea of the flux clearing the cloak reserve as a counter mechanic, but it would destroy Cal & Mini scouts, while having almost no effect on the armour tanking shotgun Gal scouts that are causing all the complaints.

If it could be implemented so that it clears the cloak only, leaving shields, I'm all for it. Otherwise, separate grenade needed.

All of these changes are extreme. 1 sec cloak... No scan dodge for cloak.. Harder to fit.. Longer decloak speed.. Make Minn scout suit the best.. Give hunter players a chance, You mean a chance to turn there Combat Rifle on my 300HP. So then there is no chance for the scout.

Here is the Truth.. Listen Wolf, man, I have some options for you,

1. Cloak timers are fine: its not a true cloak and your not invisible. Limit the cloak timer (Ok) make it a true cloak! or it is NERF

2. Cloak and Scouts need to dodge scan or all the modules (scan precision, Dampeners, range enhancers) go back to the useless pile. (brick tank your tiny cloak!) Changes to the Scanner - I did suggest this, but scouts should be able to dodge scanners, It should be easier for a scout to dodge a scanner then a scanner to catch a scout, by far!. Scanner are more of a squad tool now, that is cool. But you suggest no stealth ability from scanners.. and that is a bad NERF. Scanner can catch everyone. There is more use for them as a orbital aid for squad members to coordinate with.

3. Making the Cloak harder to fit for the Scout is not right, as it already fits nothing. Still its the second most acceptable NERF I can see. And would promote Brick/Tank scouts to opt out of wearing a cloak. I would suggest instead giving another suit the 5% bonus ability, maybe a assault suit (for the dedicated hunter you talk about).

4. Longer Decloak, this will not save non-cloakers, but will lead to less in-your-face-decloak and more positional attacks (similar to other MMO rogues - attacking from behind is the huge bonus to win, attack from the front is weak) This is the most acceptable NERF. I would suggest a very short timer nerf and a increased sound when decloaking. Similar to other MMO rogues, they decloak makes a sound other players can hear. Adding a sound effect and small decloaking delay - should give players a chance to turn it around. A skilled scout less so, but if he decloaks our of range or misses the other player would have a chance to know he was there, even if he was out of his direct view frame. (with sound effect).

5. Please don't make Minn scouts the OP scout? Min and Amarrr don't even like to fight like that. Cal invented the Stealth Bomber, Gal and Cal do the black ops attacks more.. Its a dirtier war. Min and Amarr have enough hate, there is no hiding an attack, the mins go in guns blazing and the Amarr go in with heavy armor.. Dust should reflect that? Or have more storyline to explain why Min is #1. (you just like the name Minja ) Me to, almost went Min for that but Cal had more ability to see targets

Nerfing the cloak Nerfs the Nano knifes again (so sad).

All those NERFS... Scouts will be the same as pre 1.8

I think I have offered some good solutions, not just rage or QQ.I am a bit angry the forum QQers rule CCP. I started off killing people with my cloak and shotgun like they were clueless. In this short time that has already started to change. Better tactics in game then just players running around solo in assault or logi, hacking and using auto spray rifles. Scouts were killed very easy, and heavies were not worth the isk cost to risk to solo.

The cloak has promoted players to work together, less solo hero runners in proto suits in pubs - solo they were at risk still!. It has limited the run in solo and hack in Logi and Assault suits with no teamwork at all! just run from thing to think for points. It has limited the run into a building blind (now you throw a grenade or wait for back-up or scout to check it out)... The cloak has greatly increased the game tactics.. Far more then anything else in 1.8.... Nerf the scout this heavy and they FOTM players will just all turn to heavy brick tanks until 1.9 and we can all be forced back int assault/heavy/logi.

Iron Wolf Saber - I hope you comment back.

For the most part, I think we are getting ahead of the game here in terms of coming up with cloak adjustments before the bugs and kinks are worked out. Cloaks are not entirely working as intended, and we should really hope CCP focuses on making those fixes before even considering the discussion.

At this point, we are all just taking shots in the dark as to how cloaks will work post bug fixes. Quite frankly, I think that adjusting the decloak issue, whether it be faster decloak or inability to use a weapon until fully decloaked, and fixing tacnet will go a long ways towards fixing any perceived problems.

Thing is though we can easily simulate the scenarios where cloaks are working as they should. So by definition none of the problems plaguing the cloak are 'game breaking'

So ...

In Category A, we have broken things like AV, Tanks, Assault Bonuses, etc.
In Category B, we have make-believe broken things, namely Cloak.

Iws you have confused me. What is currently working as intended on the cloak but needs balance?

But if things like flux start to drain cloak, along with weapons. I see a lot fewer people running them. Cloaks make my life a little easier, but if they get to be "more trouble", I will gladly use that second equipment slot for something that has more tangible uses.

Currently I only use cloak for its damp bonus and hacking nonobjective points.

Secondly what changes were made that made all these hit detection issues crop up. Chromosome never had these issues....or it was much more rare. I have hit detection issues with every weapon I utilize

Considering it sounds like explosions are the issue how is the mass driver not effected? Or was that the reason for its DMG buff?

The truth is these occlusion issues have been cropping up since last November. Even remotes are " less effective "

You're in AE, aura? This is no shot at AE but wow man....thought we go back like drive-ins and car seats :(

More like

Category A - A problem that is so consistently broken that intended game play is unfathomable at the time until corrected.
Previously Shotgun hit detection was one such topic of constant discussion that falls into this category. Problems in this category are typically unopposed to get fixed by the community. Currently Plasma Cannons are in this category considering there is an 'explosive occlusion problem that may be attributed to the serious underperformance of the weapon'. While it may be possible to get the 'as intended hit' every so often its so rare that most of us would chock it up to luck or poor fittings on the sob just nailed. The explosive occlusion problem is also hiding how OP a grenade or flux can be BUT without the effects of the fix being known pre-emptively trying to fix those is a useless effort.

Category B - A problem that can be simulated and at times observed to be in proper working order. This is typically the more difficult ones to fix because people from all angels disagree if its working or not. This is the majority of the current balance issues.

OT Alert

Iggy migrated alongside a handful of standing PHI as part of a group decision. There aren't many of us left, but those who remain wanted to pew-pew alongside guys we know. RND was the first option considered; we go way back like Megatron. OH and a couple RoFL corps were also tabled. AE had more former PHI than any other corp, so we chose AE.

Thing is though we can easily simulate the scenarios where cloaks are working as they should. So by definition none of the problems plaguing the cloak are 'game breaking'

It also appears that a lot of people are simulating ways in which the cloak is still broken, i.e. shotgunning while still visibly concealed. Since this seems to be a major concern for many of those who claim the cloak is broken or OP, especially given that CCP directly stated that those that are cloaked will not be able to fire.

I don't trust that enough of the community will appreciate that fixing this issue will go a long ways towards alleviating those instances in which they see the cloak as OP, in which case they normally request knee jerk reactions such as eliminating the cloak entirely.

I also don't trust that those who are currently abusing the cloak have a vested interest in the scout role or playstyle such that they could care less if a nuclear nerf is dropped on the suit, again.

By truly fixing the issues first, particularly the decloaking issue, you will find fewer people abusing it and fewer people raging at the abuse, and we can move towards a better place than simply theorycrafting and hoping it all works out.

I am tired of the nerf-buff-nerf cycle.

I stopped reading at the "I feel the brick tank issue is bigger" statement.

once again you prove with your own words you don't belong on the cpm....

I don't care how bicked your tank is, right now a cloaked scout with one well placed shotty burst to the head nullifies that issue and there is no counter to it....

cpm1 cant come soon enough and I will be praying to my golden cow you aren't on it.....

This is news to me. Wasn't aware that there still was an occlusion problem. I thought the explosion occlusion problem was solved with the mass driver fix. Is different code handling explosions on different weapons?