DUST Search - [request] allow passengers to shoot from dropship

Gabriella Grey wrote:

Skybladev2 wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example?

Dropships now are not so much threat like vehicles should be. It pretty thin and cannot deliver much DPS.

If we allow people use swarms inside dropships it will not be untouchable weapon, because when they shoot all their ammo, they have to go out :)

I think allowing customize dropships's DPS and type of damage in that way is a great idea:
Take 2 gunners and 4 swarm launchers - you are ultimate vehicle destroyer. Forgegun can shoot you as usual, and when it happens your passengers are easy frag crowd.
Take 2 gunners and 4 mass drivers - you can protect any NULL cannon, but need to stand still and low, vulnerable to everyone. And when they out of ammo - they easy frags again.
Take 2 gunners and 4 forgeguns - well, I think, they kill can themselves and dropship too while maneuvering from time to time... But if not, maybe you realize at last, that forgeguns are too overpowered?

Returning to swarms - if you think 4 swarms can fill a dropship, why 4 swarms can not gather and shoot that dropship? 2 shoots from each player will be enough to kill any dropship.

I want to say, that at now drophips are at low dps, high cost and low HP. My Python not get killed every match only because I am not so much threat to other players. If we increase dropship's threat level, then they will be shot down more often and delivering, say, 4 swarms DPS to other players will be quite tricky. Maybe it will teach other players to look to the sky ;)

this might sound good to you in theory but as I stated above, this will make the game broken. Dropships and other weapons along those lines that could allow forge guns and swarm launchers to shoot out of them, would simply just kill everything, giving no meaning to much of anything. You should think over how it will impact those who have invest time in vehicles, and various other things. Should I bring up the point about when the flaylock was hated by everyone with a light weapon? Question

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 231	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:59:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Well swarms need that little bit of space when they shoot, mass drivers would need to be relatively close to the ground so that the rounds don't explode in mid air. Perhaps if a mass driver round hit the inside of the DS then it would damage the dropship.
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 399	Posted - 2013.08.30 15:28:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I like the idea of people able to fire from dropships. If your dropship pilot is really steady, you can already do it while standing on top of a dropship. You can remove some of the weird obstructions in front of players, and they'll be able to actually get shot out of the dropship without too much difficulty. Dropship movement will make accuracy tough anyways, unless the dropship is steady enough for players to get easily shot. The most important change though, is if you do this, the balance needs to be that dropships need to explode properly.
Jebediah Mayhew Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 34	Posted - 2013.08.30 15:30:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I see your point. How about being able to upgrade the dropship to have more guns on it? Obvious PG/CPU requirements, speed requirements, all that but if people want to invest that way......might be an option.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 68	Posted - 2013.08.30 15:31:00 - [64] - Quote Would be allright cause dropships are allready very squishy.It takes literally 2 forgegun hits and the thing crashes to the ground. However when we can remove turrets and allow passangers to use all their weapons this would require teamwork. Additionally you cant deploy equipment inside of the dropship which forces you to land quite often so that your guys can replenish ammo. But yes allow this but only if the dropship explodes in mid air when the HP hits 0. So annoying when you shot down a fully manned dropship and they just jump out and escape.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1978	Posted - 2013.08.30 15:52:00 - [65] - Quote For balance I'd like to see the small dropship turret provide protection for its gunner and get more damage along with its limited ammo supply. That would balance hand held weapons with turrets and give pilots a reason to equip them. It's ridiculous that a hand held weapon should be so much better than a vehicle mounted turret that folks cry "OP!" at the thought of letting people shoot from a dropship. It's like complaining that letting someone shoot an AR from a Huey is somehow so much more devastating than the vehicle mounted mini-gun or the Apache rocket pods are overshadowed by the co-pilot lobbing a grenade out the window.
Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 77	Posted - 2013.08.30 16:06:00 - [66] - Quote Dropships are still pretty easy to knock out of the sky, I'm guessing by the time this happens 1.5 would've rolled around so I think by then once all of the vehicle/AV issues people are complaining about would've been balanced. I think the dropship should just be harder to fly based on weight, though that might be an annoying mechanic to work it so maybe for now, if someone fires a forge or MD out the side of it why not have the same kickback as when the dropship gets hit by a forge? Otherwise I see 4 seats that aren't being used and 2 small turrets that are just plain awful so yes, be able to shoot out the side of it, because that would make sense.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 786	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:01:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? that would be awesome. and still balanced because the dropship itself can still get shot down...lolz but it would be awesome to see rockets flying out from my dropship everywhere
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 786	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:05:00 - [68] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Well swarms need that little bit of space when they shoot, mass drivers would need to be relatively close to the ground so that the rounds don't explode in mid air. Perhaps if a mass driver round hit the inside of the DS then it would damage the dropship. i have had mass driver rounds hit my dropship and kill my gunners pretty easy. the passengers are easy targets, but when properly position this can be deadly.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 786	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:10:00 - [69] - Quote Gringo Nos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Talked about this a few times with Corp mates. We thought any heavy weapons would be OP. IMO swarm launchers should be a heavy weapon but since they're not I would only want to see sidearms in the passenger seats. So my vote is sidearms only. dont forget you can still hit anypassengers in the dropship... and since they are in a vehicle they also take damage from the AV that hits the vehicle. remember they are just as suseptible as you are. one thing everyone here is forgetting: when you spawn in a match and see an enemy dropship whether its assault or not what does everyone do? they shoot it down. when your team is redlined and you see a dropship what does your team do? shoot it down. so, if you already shot dropships down and theycan't do anything right now, then why is it OP when they can do something? your going to shoot them down anyway
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 237	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:14:00 - [70] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Well swarms need that little bit of space when they shoot, mass drivers would need to be relatively close to the ground so that the rounds don't explode in mid air. Perhaps if a mass driver round hit the inside of the DS then it would damage the dropship. i have had mass driver rounds hit my dropship and kill my gunners pretty easy. the passengers are easy targets, but when properly position this can be deadly. I know, haha I really want this to happen, my point was adding a little more risk v reward to it. Cause the mass driver shoots on an arc right? So let's say the ship banks hard to one side and the mass driver-er shoots a round just as the ship banks wich in turn causes the round to explode inside the ship? This would cause the ship and the shooter to take damage. I really want this to happen :)

Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 237	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:16:00 - [71] - Quote As for heavy weapons being used, a HMG is useless at any range above 20m and a forge gun needs to be more accurate so it won't hit the ship and blow up your own ship.....that and I find it hard to hit something when your moving at 500 MPH
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 786	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:18:00 - [72] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Seemes like an ideal position for a mass driver to support units on the ground, swarms on the other hand I can see getting out out of hand, take the drop ship to mid ceiling and have swarms rain down with no way of a counter. Massdrivers could just get shot out easily at thier op range with the bay doors open Quick idea for drop ships seeing we're on the subject of the "open bay doors feature" Make it so the only way people can 'drop' or abandon a drop ship is when the bay doors are open This would somewhat solve the lack of kills when downing a drop ship and placing a duty to the pilot to remember too open the doors to save his crew/gunners if he's going down or dropping people off how to counter = your SL or forgun
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 786	Posted - 2013.08.30 19:29:00 - [73] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Skybladev2 wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Dropships now are not so much threat like vehicles should be. It pretty thin and cannot deliver much DPS. If we allow people use swarms inside dropships it will not be untouchable weapon, because when they shoot all their ammo, they have to go out :) I think allowing customize dropships's DPS and type of damage in that way is a great idea: Take 2 gunners and 4 swarm launchers - you are ultimate vehicle destroyer. Forgegun can shoot you as usual, and when it happens your passengers are easy frag crowd. Take 2 gunners and 4 mass drivers - you can protect any NULL cannon, but need to stand still and low, vulnerable to everyone. And when they out of ammo - they easy frags again. Take 2 gunners and 4 forgeguns - well, I think, they kill can themselves and dropship too while maneuvering from time to time... But if not, maybe you realize at last, that forgeguns are too overpowered? Returning to swarms - if you think 4 swarms can fill a dropship, why 4 swarms can not gather and shoot that dropship? 2 shoots from each player will be enough to kill any dropship. I want to say, that at now drophips are at low dps, high cost and low HP. My Python not get killed every match only because I am not so much threat to other players. If we increase dropship's threat level, then they will be shot down more often and delivering, say, 4 swarms DPS to other players will be quite tricky. Maybe it will teach other players to look to the sky ;) this might sound good to you in theory but as I stated above, this will make the game broken. Dropships and other weapons along those lines that could allow forge guns and swarm launchers to shoot out of them, would simply just kill everything, giving no meaning to much of anything. You should think over how it will impact those who have invest time in vehicles, and various other things. Should I bring up the point about when the flaylock was hated by everyone with a light weapon? its funny how the flaylock was hated, but the AR, sniper and SMG still had more kills than the flaylock. its funny how the flaylock killed people in specific instnances, like close range, or with high ground, but instead of adjusting tactics people screamed OP? its interesting how people who invested SP in flaylocks got screwed over because people using militia ARs couldn't out gun them. the only people complaining really where AR users. the game won't be broken, people will just need to actually use their AV fits. its quite simple. on that note flaylocks actually need a buff.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 - [74] - Quote As only a TRAINEE driver of the DS (still with lots to practice and learn before I'm any good), I am probably ill-equiped to put in my late-hour opinion. But my hope is that as many Dust players as possible will will STAY AWAY from dropship piloting and stay on the ground where Dust gets its name. I love my flying games like I suspect a lot of frustrated pilots do (it's romantic and cool to barnstorm against bullets and bandits). But I very much admire that, while EVE Online's life is entirely above the planets, the definitive decision was to make "Dust" the game where EVE can never go. Even though it is currently suffering criticism due to its "appearance" of trying to be another popular foot-based FPS, I hope for every development to KEEP Dust foot-anchored! I wouldn't want the air to get any more adversarial than "Environmental" ememies (like WP-rewardng drone infestations or something), and I refused to drive an "assault" DS. I see the LAV as a means of TRANSPORTING a hit-n-run mini-team to an objective quickly. There's an opinion that these vehicles don't have properly identified roles in the matches, but there IS a hinted purpose of the DS as a TRANSPORT that can hop a squad of footmen over large swatches of terrain (arguably vague to use until we entrer full-size maps of EVE capsuleer-contracts). Transporting successfully is where DS pilots can legitimately earn WP/ SP that footmen cannot earn (could even be as rudimentary as "T.O. to successful landing = 90 WP per passenger"). I enjoy that support with our gunnery as an extra "WP of opportunity". But if we sit TROLLING up in the air (and we will if we turn into swiss-army knife carrying a shooting Swarmer, shooting forger, fold-out sniper and fold-out HMG guy) then the footman's turf war will be derailed by repeatedly having to destroy Zelda-style enemies floating on elevated platforms. No "flying" and fewer "hovering gunships" in Dust for me, guys. I love those mercs on the ground, and want them to love me for being able to HOP them over the tough parts... not give them a new flying barge to own the sky in.
J Lav OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 182	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:14:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Not good. I do however like the idea of heavy weapons being allowed to fire from dropships. Yes this would include the forge gun, and no I don't think it would be OP considering the fragility of the dropship and the absolute insanity it would be to aim from a moving dropship.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 41	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:23:00 - [76] - Quote I'm all for dropships being able to get swarm launchers and forge gunners able to fire from them and whatever else people would like to use. However, I have conditions that I must stress be upheld if they are allowed to do this. Which I will now bullet point. -If swarm missiles hit on your side and you are firing a gun, they will hit you for the damage if they are a direct hit to you and then do damage to the vehicle whatever amount your armor/shield could not absorb. This makes it risky to use your gun at all and for the dropship pilot to have open the sides.(Added risk to using anything within the dropship for the bonus of being able to fire out this does not apply to those using repair tools) -When the Dropship is falling from damage dealt to the dropship, the pilot may not eject from the vehicle and is locked in and will die.(provides extra incentive not to do the suicide charges with dropships that do happen often enough) -Those ejecting from the falling dropship that is going to die must make a save to reorrient themselves in order to use the inerita stabalizer.(Your being thrown out at a high g force, if the dropship is going down, could be as simple as alligning the two joysticks to symbols on the screen which do not move) -Proxy mines/remote explosives can not be used within the dropship to prevent suicide ships and trolling. -Firing swarm missiles from a drop ship takes an extra .5 seconds due to interference from the dropship you are currently in.(makes it so that dropships carrying 4 swarm missilers are not godly death to all vehicles beneath them.) -Dropships that are currently carrying infintry at all are slowed down in the sky based on the weights of suits within them.(If four heavy drop suits are in the passanger slots and 2 mediums in the gunner slots, I imagine that dropship would have some problems moving also prevents overcrowding of heavies into a dropship without providing a major debuff also more realistic) -Nanohives may not be placed within dropships to prevent spamming of MD and gernades. I feel this list of things would be a start to making it so that players could fire out of Dropships in a fair manner to all involved.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 905	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:34:00 - [77] - Quote Swarms are literally the only issue with this. A single MCRU dropship hovering above the center of battle negates any and all vehicle usage by the other team. 10x worse than forges on towers. This could be somewhat mitigated by significantly reducing dropship resistance to small arms. To the point where dropships have to take note of sniper fire. The other option, and while this might sound really odd, it is probably the most reasonable way to make passengers "useful": Create a variant of the Assault dropship, call it a "Gunship" and include 5x small turrets (one for every person in the ship including the pilot). Adjust fitting requirements and slots accordingly. You'd have to like, limit the range of motion for the 4x side turrets to separate 90-120 degree arcs of fire so there is limited potential for overlapping fire on ... for instance ... tanks ... but I think this would achieve the goal of OP.
King Trigger DUST University Ivy League 13	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:48:00 - [78] - Quote I think firing out of the dropship, however you end up balancing it, would make tight squads a more common and would make the vehicle a lot more tactically viable. As it is, dropships are really vulnerable, so they're usually just used to strafe or para-drop mercs, without being a really formidable insertion tool. I would think twice about unloading my HMG on an approaching dropship if there were a turret and two ARs pointed at me, but as it is I will usually put as many rounds into the shield as I can just to scare 'em. They typically don't pose much of a threat, even though I'm not AV. And, imagine the ramifications of being able to drop uplinks from a ship, or remote explosives. Or even just grenades...
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1247	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:00:00 - [79] - Quote It would make things quite interesting. If lavs could use guns too. On one hand it could be bad for dropships because a viper loaded with 4 swarms might just ruin any other air presence in the game. On the other hand it could still be fun.
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1247	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:02:00 - [80] - Quote I'll put in my vote for yes. Not which,if any restrictions there should be. Perhaps none. Perhaps after testing it will be obvious that some things are just not ok.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 5618	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:09:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Would be fine with it honestly, I would consider it an acceptable tactic.
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1247	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:10:00 - [82] - Quote dew ett
Sarducar Kahn xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers 60	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:24:00 - [83] - Quote I have an idea. No heavy weapons, no shoulder mounted weapons, other weapons are fired one handed giving a penalty to light weapons. Passengers need to hold on or fall out no?
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1247	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:35:00 - [84] - Quote It kind of makes no sense in this game for there to be seats in vehicles where people are looking out to the open but can't do anything except get shot. I can't think of a single that operates like this, so yeah. Passengers should be able to shoot. ESPECIALLY given the new limited ammo for vehicles. This will make interesting decision: Would you rather have 2 strong turrets and a few gunners, or all infantry guns with their limited ammo types. Perhaps somebody does not have good weapon skills so they can make better use of your turrets. etc
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1247	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:37:00 - [85] - Quote more reason for people to dropships/ LAVs if they could fire swarms out the side.
Absolon Gainne Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 43	Posted - 2013.08.30 21:54:00 - [86] - Quote As long as doors needed to be open to fire or exit, having the opportunity to fire from dropships would be a much needed usability boost. For those who are saying it might be OP, its certainly possible that there will be unseen consequences, but the idea itself is not broken. Just look at how well it was implemented in BF3: you could launch Javelins from the transport helicopters (guided missiles that were capable of OHKs on tanks), but not only could you be shot out at any time, but the helicopters were very vulnerable to enemy fire if they came to a halt. I imagine it would work the same way in Dust.
Nick nugg3t Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2013.08.30 22:14:00 - [87] - Quote i want my passenger in my LAV to shoot his submachine gun at infantry as i drive by. please? . . . pretty please?? btw +1 to dropship passenger giving covering fire with mass drivers
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1492	Posted - 2013.08.30 22:21:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? My recommendation is to limit weapons to sidearms only when shooting from the passenger seat. Seems the best way to handle it, and in a "real world" application (snicker) it seems the most likely to happen.
Nguruthos IX Vagina Bombers 1248	Posted - 2013.08.30 22:46:00 - [89] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? My recommendation is to limit weapons to sidearms only when shooting from the passenger seat. Seems the best way to handle it, and in a "real world" application (snicker) it seems the most likely to happen. I'm not sure that light weapons should be barred though. An AR isn't that heavy. Forge guns might be a problem, but that's just because they're OP :P Then again maybe they'd be fine. You really have to test it and see how it pans out first before making errant speculation I think
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 238	Posted - 2013.08.30 22:51:00 - [90] - Quote ^^^ I second this, after all, it won't be the last update and it won't be the first issue with the game



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