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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1974
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Posted - 2013.08.30 12:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
The big differentiator between small turrets and hand held weapons is stabilization.
Stabilization makes it possible for gunners to hit a target while the dropship is maneuvering. Take that way and it's suddenly very difficult. The dropship must hold rock steady for any hitscan weapon to be effective, and then the occupants are just as vulnerable as the target.
I believe that is what would balance a dropship full of FGs. How much different is that than dropping the FGs to do their work and then picking them up? Everyone is conjuring images of four to six FGs in a dropship, but what team fields so many today? What is the likelihood that anyone would pack that many eggs in one basket? It would instantly attract a ton of AV which would kill it or drive it off. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1977
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Posted - 2013.08.30 14:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
We need to examine just what the dropship brings to the table as a shooting platform, both the pro's and the con's.
Advantages:
Fast insertion and extraction.
It is mobile high ground.
Disadvantages:
It's an unstable platform in all but the most capable hands.
It offers zero cover when the doors are open. There is no retreat for passengers.
No resupply from standard sources. No nanohives.
Everyone sees you and are vulnerable to sniper fire from all over the map.
You are vulnerable to AV taking out your ride.
So a dropship is great for getting troops to an objective. Well, that's what it's designed for. If they don't jump out then it can extract them just as fast, but then all fire is coming from one direction rather than all over if they had jumped. The advantage of high ground is unevenly distributed. It's great for the MD, but most other weapons don't get such a great benefit. The MD has very limited ammo and will run out pretty quickly, leaving him with nothing to do.
Now unless you have a ace pilot nobody is going to hit anything from the dropship. How many of you folks have actually manned a dropship turret? What was it like trying to shoot with a novice pilot? Now remove the turret stabilization and try it again. Pretty useless at range isn't it?
Now all the snipers see you hovering rock steady and you can't run around like you can on the ground so you start taking sniper fire and scream for the pilot to close the doors. Then the AV starts up and the pilot has to bug out.
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1978
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Posted - 2013.08.30 15:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
For balance I'd like to see the small dropship turret provide protection for its gunner and get more damage along with its limited ammo supply.
That would balance hand held weapons with turrets and give pilots a reason to equip them. It's ridiculous that a hand held weapon should be so much better than a vehicle mounted turret that folks cry "OP!" at the thought of letting people shoot from a dropship.
It's like complaining that letting someone shoot an AR from a Huey is somehow so much more devastating than the vehicle mounted mini-gun or the Apache rocket pods are overshadowed by the co-pilot lobbing a grenade out the window. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1992
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Posted - 2013.08.31 14:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only reason people are freaking out at hand held weapons is that turrets are currently pop guns that don't inspire fear.
The vehicle rebuild promises to buff damage output and add burst defense for brief hard hitting engagements. As such it's going to be buffing small turrets for dropships. That should make them better the hand held weapons which will then make personal weapons much less of an issue. One that can be balanced by vulnerability and the need to hold he ship rock steady because only the turrets shield their gunners and have stability augmentation. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2000
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Posted - 2013.09.01 15:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lillica Deathdealer wrote:Ah, but heres another question. Is it really acceptable for gunners to shoot out of a dropship with shields? Wouldn't their weapons just hit the shields?
The shields don't cover the passenger bay. You can shoot right through the middle of a dropship with its doors open. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2002
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Posted - 2013.09.01 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sarducar Kahn wrote:I think it's about having to hold on while flying around. I think while flying you can shoot sidearms and non shoulder mounted light weapons form the hip. If the DS is stable you can crouch (better balance) and fire anything with aim down sights. Too much speed/acceleration and you stand up instantly loosing lock-on for swarms and charge on FG.
It's not about having to hold on, you can lock a suits boots in place so he's not going to fall over.
The real limiting factor is simply the inability of a person to hold a target in ADS in a shifting dropship without stabilization.
A dropship under evasive manuvering is impossible to shoot fom even with a track assist turret, imagine trying to hold target with an AR while ADS. So the ship must be rock steady for most weapons to have a remote chance of being useful, and that means the shooter is extremely vulnerable.
The more weapons effective the dropship, the more vulnerable the passengers. Balance. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2019
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Posted - 2013.09.05 04:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simple, if you can get shot at, you can shoot out. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2709
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Posted - 2014.01.18 02:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hoover Damn wrote:Frankly if there are man-portable weapons that are significantly more powerful than emplaced weapons the emplaced weapons need a buff or the man-portable weapons need a nerf. If that bigass gun on the back of an LAV is less powerful than a forge gun or an HMG, that needs to be rectified pronto.
This is the reason everyone is afraid of handheld weapons being used from open vehicles such as the LAV and dropship.
That mini gun on the side of any helicopter flying today is several times more badass than anything hand carried in that same chopper. It pumps out more damage and is mounted for increased accuracy.
Vehicle mounted missiles are even more scary. Why don't we have vehicle mounted swarm launcher turrets?
Because LAVs and dropships have been neutered, that's why. CCP has been afraid to make them useful ever since they ruled the skies with small missiles and could outrun swarms. They taped a small missile launcher to the nose of an extra fragile dropship to distract pilots from demanding a true assault craft, one that would be used to ferry in a full squad to overwhelm a point.
So full time pilots now fly around in a very expensive vehicle with a popgun instead of truly assaulting an objective.
Of course we'd also need a few map and game mode changes to make that a valuable tactic, but it could be done. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2715
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
The sad part of this whole discussion is that it assumes the dropship is just another DPS platform rather than having a unique role of its own.
The dropship can transport six infantry at a time, yet when was the last time you saw more than two inside? Not in a very long time I'll wager. Not since a MCRU enticed a shipfull of mercs to soak up vehicle kill assists back when they were killing machines. A dropship should be able to defend itself, but shouldn't it be best at its primary role?
Why don't we see more transport? There are a few reasons:
- Most maps are so small that dropships don't offer much of a speed advantage.
- Transport was ninja nerfed by the extended vehicle lock times. Waiting an additional 15 seconds for boarding at the start of a match is a huge disadvantage in the race for an objective.
- Drop Uplinks shoulder the bulk of the task of keeping mercs at the front line. That's not a bad thing as it keeps the intensity of the fight at enjoyable levels. Folks would chafe at the idea of spawning at a back base bus stop and having to wait for the next shuttle to the front. That does however narrow the transport role to an assault on an objective that lacks nearby uplinks.
- Poor to nonexistent communication and coordination. An assault force has to be assembled and that was further nerfed by the lack of warbarge time due to the new match making. Even if a pilot wanted to offer general assautl transport service at the start of the match nobody is listening to take him up on it. That limits the transport dropship to full corp squads.
Judge made a very nice video proposal for in game pilot/passenger communication, but I think the direction of communication might be better reversed. Instead of having individual passengers request one-off taxi service I think it would be better to have a pilot advertise an assault on a particular objective and allow mercs to assemble at his ship for the attack. That would make best use of the dropship's ability to insert a full squad. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2719
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:To build off your idea Ski, a dropship transport pilot (me) could have a command click wheel of his own. Then, when I set the capture objective marker, a colored one appears over my ship too so people can get the idea that I will take you somewhere.
However, this takes more time than having a dedicated squad to fly for, what I usually try and secure, and it also might be hard to orchestrate as would my entire team be ale to see my marker?
I think it might require a combination of voice communications and markers to be the most effective. Maybe some version of the squad finder where you would mark your location and the attack location with markers and allow people to "join" your dropship voice channel. Everyone on your team would see your markers and would then have the option of joining the "assault" even if they are in a regular squad. Those mercs would then show up on the pilot's tac-net with a different color to let him know where his assault squad is at. He might even be able to limit boarding to folks who have joined the assault so he is assured voice communications or at least that his passengers are fully aware of the purpose of the flight.
The pilot would park at an assembly point near enough the majority of his passengers and could even fly to outlying ones based on their markers (like Judge designed). Once the full attack squad is onboard he makes his attack run and everyone is notified of arrival by visual means to cover the case where people aren't on mics.
That would add an exciting element to combat and reorient the dropship back to its original design purpose. I have nothing against the current ADS, but I don't want the dropship to turn into just another DPS platform. |
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