DUST Search - [request] allow passengers to shoot from dropship

Skybladev2 wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example?

Dropships now are not so much threat like vehicles should be. It pretty thin and cannot deliver much DPS.

If we allow people use swarms inside dropships it will not be untouchable weapon, because when they shoot all their ammo, they have to go out :)

I think allowing customize dropships's DPS and type of damage in that way is a great idea:
Take 2 gunners and 4 swarm launchers - you are ultimate vehicle destroyer. Forgegun can shoot you as usual, and when it happens your passengers are easy frag crowd.
Take 2 gunners and 4 mass drivers - you can protect any NULL cannon, but need to stand still and low, vulnerable to everyone. And when they out of ammo - they easy frags again.
Take 2 gunners and 4 forgeguns - well, I think, they kill can themselves and dropship too while maneuvering from time to time... But if not, maybe you realize at last, that forgeguns are too overpowered?

Returning to swarms - if you think 4 swarms can fill a dropship, why 4 swarms can not gather and shoot that dropship? 2 shoots from each player will be enough to kill any dropship.

I want to say, that at now drophips are at low dps, high cost and low HP. My Python not get killed every match only because I am not so much threat to other players. If we increase dropship's threat level, then they will be shot down more often and delivering, say, 4 swarms DPS to other players will be quite tricky. Maybe it will teach other players to look to the sky ;)

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Gabriella Grey 0uter.Heaven 19	Posted - 2013.08.30 10:42:00 - [31] - Quote if i could fly around in a dropship with swarm launchers, forge guns, plasma cannons, and any other weapon that is really meant for serious ground pounding, turrets would be useless! I just think that these weapons shouldn't be allowed at all to be used while riding in an LAV or Dropship for obvious reasons. They would cause chaos to other dropship pilots, and that goes the same for being the go to destruction for tanks, making the vehicle game back broken far worse than it is. Like Robert said, also let these weapons be far harder to use when they are on the ground, with the speed and movement of the vehicle, a range deduction, and it shouldn't give them too many reasons to hover over an objective shooting, unless they want to be an easy target.
Gabriella Grey 0uter.Heaven 19	Posted - 2013.08.30 10:43:00 - [32] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: shaman oga wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? what about equipment? this is not offensive and can be out DPSed by almost every AV weapon Hmm, good question. I can see a dropship flying to a tower or something and a passenger drops a hive and/or uplink without needing to hop out. Then flying off to help someone else. Incoming tank? Have a teammate drop some proxies along the road mid flight then flank back behind the tank and shoot at him so he keeps moving towards the trap. Now that I think about it. You could restrict it to vehicle type. Assault vehicles allow passengers to use weapons(they have fewer seats, don't they?), Logi/Scout allow players to use equipment. None specced vehicles restrict passenger abilities. `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. It would be much nicer if dropships could do this on their own rather than someone doing this, but this also has been brought up several times in other forums in the community.
Spademan the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 255	Posted - 2013.08.30 10:44:00 - [33] - Quote Gringo Nos wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Talked about this a few times with Corp mates. We thought any heavy weapons would be OP. IMO swarm launchers should be a heavy weapon but since they're not I would only want to see sidearms in the passenger seats. So my vote is sidearms only. Unless there'd be a way to exclude certain weapons, then sidearms and equipment only. (I want to be able to repair from the inside like I could in Bad company 2, and get points for it)
Heligg LA 501 eme Citizens of Nowhere 20	Posted - 2013.08.30 10:48:00 - [34] - Quote If think it goes well with what mentionned Wolfman in his post about vehicules: -Small turrets are no longer mandatory when fitting a vehicle. This should allow for more interesting vehicle setups than before. Then non used turret slots could be replaced with an armed merc. Maybe adding modules to add more armed mercs, limiting to a maximum off four, with two on each side or something like that
Skybladev2 RUST 415 RUST415 29	Posted - 2013.08.30 10:50:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Dropships now are not so much threat like vehicles should be. It pretty thin and cannot deliver much DPS. If we allow people use swarms inside dropships it will not be untouchable weapon, because when they shoot all their ammo, they have to go out :) I think allowing customize dropships's DPS and type of damage in that way is a great idea: Take 2 gunners and 4 swarm launchers - you are ultimate vehicle destroyer. Forgegun can shoot you as usual, and when it happens your passengers are easy frag crowd. Take 2 gunners and 4 mass drivers - you can protect any NULL cannon, but need to stand still and low, vulnerable to everyone. And when they out of ammo - they easy frags again. Take 2 gunners and 4 forgeguns - well, I think, they kill can themselves and dropship too while maneuvering from time to time... But if not, maybe you realize at last, that forgeguns are too overpowered? Returning to swarms - if you think 4 swarms can fill a dropship, why 4 swarms can not gather and shoot that dropship? 2 shoots from each player will be enough to kill any dropship. I want to say, that at now drophips are at low dps, high cost and low HP. My Python not get killed every match only because I am not so much threat to other players. If we increase dropship's threat level, then they will be shot down more often and delivering, say, 4 swarms DPS to other players will be quite tricky. Maybe it will teach other players to look to the sky ;)
Gabriella Grey 0uter.Heaven 21	Posted - 2013.08.30 11:01:00 - [36] - Quote Skybladev2 wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Dropships now are not so much threat like vehicles should be. It pretty thin and cannot deliver much DPS. If we allow people use swarms inside dropships it will not be untouchable weapon, because when they shoot all their ammo, they have to go out :) I think allowing customize dropships's DPS and type of damage in that way is a great idea: Take 2 gunners and 4 swarm launchers - you are ultimate vehicle destroyer. Forgegun can shoot you as usual, and when it happens your passengers are easy frag crowd. Take 2 gunners and 4 mass drivers - you can protect any NULL cannon, but need to stand still and low, vulnerable to everyone. And when they out of ammo - they easy frags again. Take 2 gunners and 4 forgeguns - well, I think, they kill can themselves and dropship too while maneuvering from time to time... But if not, maybe you realize at last, that forgeguns are too overpowered? Returning to swarms - if you think 4 swarms can fill a dropship, why 4 swarms can not gather and shoot that dropship? 2 shoots from each player will be enough to kill any dropship. I want to say, that at now drophips are at low dps, high cost and low HP. My Python not get killed every match only because I am not so much threat to other players. If we increase dropship's threat level, then they will be shot down more often and delivering, say, 4 swarms DPS to other players will be quite tricky. Maybe it will teach other players to look to the sky ;) this might sound good to you in theory but as I stated above, this will make the game broken. Dropships and other weapons along those lines that could allow forge guns and swarm launchers to shoot out of them, would simply just kill everything, giving no meaning to much of anything. You should think over how it will impact those who have invest time in vehicles, and various other things. Should I bring up the point about when the flaylock was hated by everyone with a light weapon?
Skybladev2 RUST 415 RUST415 29	Posted - 2013.08.30 11:04:00 - [37] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: this might sound good to you in theory but as I stated above, this will make the game broken. Dropships and other weapons along those lines that could allow forge guns and swarm launchers to shoot out of them, would simply just kill everything, giving no meaning to much of anything. You should think over how it will impact those who have invest time in vehicles, and various other things. Should I bring up the point about when the flaylock was hated by everyone with a light weapon? Maybe I wrong, so restricting use of some weapons from dropships is the best exit.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1307	Posted - 2013.08.30 11:12:00 - [38] - Quote Everyone has a right to believe in a future in which they get to make the enemy cry.
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 455	Posted - 2013.08.30 11:45:00 - [39] - Quote Gabriella, as of Uprising 1.4 patch coming out on September 3rd, swarm launcher RoF will increase, meaning you will be able to take down vehicles in no time compared with current version. CCP Logibro wrote: Uprising 1.4 Patch Notes: (...) * Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and it's fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3 (...) Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104023&find=unread You will be able to fire every 1.7 seconds and not every 3,2 seconds. It's over 47% time reduction. Even considering reduced clip size, you should be able to out pace armor reppers. Considering changes for 1.5 and onward there will be huge change to active modules mechanics giving more opportunities to AV team play. It can be "interesting", fun and engaging...
Arc-08 Horizons' Edge Orion Empire 42	Posted - 2013.08.30 11:46:00 - [40] - Quote i think it would be fine, once they give their small nerf to swarms, and buff to dropships, it might be okay then. if not just make no forge guns (it would rock the dropship too much to have forge gunners in) and throwin an AV nade out a moving dropship would be really hard to hit something anyways. but yes let us shoot out of dropsips.

martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 312	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:00:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Yep, this would create an issue, not really for the MD, since I think the DS would need to be pretty low and stable for the MD to register some hits. But 4 swarm aiming at a tank from just over it would just make tankers an extinct specie. Same for forge gunners, snipers and other long range weapons. With a small change to the DS survivability and some tweaks here and there it would be pretty useful I would say. Tweak to the following are probably already in your list, at least I hope they are: - Door opening and closing optimisation : should not open when flying low, should be button activated by pilot. Or Simply a shield barrier. Like the MCC drop bay. - Turret self centering while aiming down under DS. That is the pain for every gunners. Making the turret hard to use and enjoy. Don't make turret aiming easier, since it might be already the only weapon requiring some level of skill, whatever people say. - Hit indicators are 180deg from where the hit come from. Should be corrected - Collision damage against vehicles compared to collision damage with buildings. Impact with RDV, MCC, LAV at low speed make alot of damage, exploding the DS in a split second. Enough that now, calling a free LAV is a tactic to get rid of a DS flying right above. In general, I try to choose my map to fly around, knowing an opened map with in Skirmish is the worst to fly while an ambush without Supply depot and fight taking place in a condensed building area make it easier to survive. Because 1 AV gunner can ruin a DS pilot match, by blowing up the DS or just focusing on it a whole match to make him stay away with Swarms, 1 guy.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 312	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:03:00 - [42] - Quote Robert JD Niewiadomski wrote: Gabriella, as of Uprising 1.4 patch coming out on September 3rd, swarm launcher RoF will increase, meaning you will be able to take down vehicles in no time compared with current version. CCP Logibro wrote: Uprising 1.4 Patch Notes: (...) * Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and it's fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3 (...) Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=104023&find=unread You will be able to fire every 1.7 seconds and not every 3,2 seconds. It's over 47% time reduction. Even considering reduced clip size, you should be able to out pace armor reppers. Considering changes for 1.5 and onward there will be huge change to active modules mechanics giving more opportunities to AV team play. It can be "interesting", fun and engaging... Yep, until 1.5, swarms will completely break dropships...when flying, a Swarm shoot pretty fast already for a DS pilot without afterburners. I'll play my heavy until 1.5 I guess.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2202	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:16:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Ultra-hilarious... but I'd put restrictions like bay doors must be open, maybe make firing larger weapons like swarms impact dropship flight, and blanket reload/accuracy/lock-on penalties to firing from a dropship. I'd say the same of passengers firing from an LAV.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 512	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:20:00 - [44] - Quote Also assault dropships should have a built in afterburner. Summary: Repair tool, active scanner, usage from inside DS (from STD level) Built in afterburner for ADS Better zoom for turrets Better fly controls (this is difficult, but especially ADS need it, maneuvering the turret with the same stick we use for moving the DS is annoying) Allow passengers to see outside, it's very difficult to see where we have to drop ourself (3rd person view for passengers) A button for hover mode/ fly in statical position, it will also help maneuvering DS, like a drive assistant Time limit before DS explode when it's on fire, like 2 seconds, to allow emergency reparations. I would add something else, but now i can't think about nothing else.
King Trigger DUST University Ivy League 12	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:21:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I wouldn't have a problem with Mass Drivers...a dropship full of those would be pretty vulnerable to AV, so the more the merrier! Swarms could be problematic, but it would make some sense that a soldier couldn't really move that thing around very good or even lock on due to interference from the DS's systems, so maybe swarms just don't work in a DS. With snipers, maybe the wobbly scope just stays the whole time or there's some other kind of shaking to make it harder. If you can headshot me from above with a wobbly scope and swarm missiles coming at you, then I salute you. Although, I think there is a problem when a dropship full of Duvolles rolls up and does more damage than your turrets. Maybe units shooting from dropships get some kind of recoil increase or more dispersion or something.
S Park Finner Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 214	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:32:00 - [46] - Quote It's a good idea to allow firing from passengers in dropships because it opens up all kinds of play style alternatives and has a lot of ways to balance it quickly without needing a major update. There is the whole new potential for setting up an air war -- dropships with swarms attacking dropships with swarms that are attacking tanks. In the future, attack aircraft focused on killing dropships that are firing on ground targets while being attacked themselves by other attack aircraft. Core balance could come from things already suggested... Close the doors and passengers can't fire out or jump out but are more protected from external attacks. Passengers and pilot die if they don't jump out before the dropship health goes to zero. Dynamic balance could come from penalties assigned to weapons fired from dropships. These could be quickly changed in a daily update if things proved to be way out-of-hand... Extra lock-on time for swarm launchers Extra shake when aiming down sight for other weapons Extra inaccuracy for any weapons that arc in flight.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 157	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:33:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? omg lol no, NOT swarm launchers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please... just... don't.
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 314	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:34:00 - [48] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Better fly controls (this is difficult, but especially ADS need it, maneuvering the turret with the same stick we use for moving the DS is annoying) A button for hover mode/ fly in statical position, it will also help maneuvering DS, like a drive assistant Not sure I like the Ideas I quoted, most making the ADS dull to play with, since it is the vehicle requiring the most skills at the moment, which is the reason I play it. I deleted the one I agreed with in your posts But I might add the outrageous cost of the ADS and Logi DS should be brought down a bit. For a lvl3 vehicle without edges over low cost AV players, makes the DS not so enjoyable for the long run. ADS cost around 1.3M when well fitted. Quite expensive for the fun factor/efficiency/ durability.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2203	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:39:00 - [49] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Also assault dropships should have a built in afterburner. Summary: Repair tool, active scanner, usage from inside DS (from STD level) Built in afterburner for ADS Better zoom for turrets Better fly controls (this is difficult, but especially ADS need it, maneuvering the turret with the same stick we use for moving the DS is annoying) Allow passengers to see outside, it's very difficult to see where we have to drop ourself (3rd person view for passengers) A button for hover mode/ fly in statical position, it will also help maneuvering DS, like a drive assistant Time limit before DS explode when it's on fire, like 2 seconds, to allow emergency reparations. I would add something else, but now i can't think about nothing else. Four repair tools would give a dropship insane regen. I dunno about "built-in" afterburner. The ADS is already more maneuverable than a standard dropship. Better Zoom could be useful, but I'd want to look at Stabilized (better range/zoom) first - since that's pretty much what they're supposed to be for. It makes sense that using the turret in a flying vehicle might call for a "stabilized" turret. Assault helicopters in "real life" have 2 person crews, and the co-pilot serves as the gunner. Ergo, flying and aiming at the same time isn't something they try to do in the first place (ADS is silly in that sense). Hover mode would take out the skill from flying and attacking, and it goes to the previous point. In a real life situation, flying and shooting roles would be separate in that kind of craft. Didn't they remove the "on fire thing" in 1.4?
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 314	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:45:00 - [50] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Didn't they remove the "on fire thing" in 1.4? Yep, I think they did. All I can say is : Blowing DS in the sky + increased swarm firing speed + full DS. I will stop flying for sure. You'll need to jump out before the DS blow now, so you won't know if you would have survive if you stayed in there. Unless they remove the flame, but not the DS falling down without blowing. They did this in favor for the AV dud looking for more WP...DS player suffer again.

shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY 514	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:51:00 - [51] - Quote martinofski wrote: shaman oga wrote: Better fly controls (this is difficult, but especially ADS need it, maneuvering the turret with the same stick we use for moving the DS is annoying) A button for hover mode/ fly in statical position, it will also help maneuvering DS, like a drive assistant Not sure I like the Ideas I quoted, most making the ADS dull to play with, since it is the vehicle requiring the most skills at the moment, which is the reason I play it. I deleted the one I agreed with in your posts But I might add the outrageous cost of the ADS and Logi DS should be brought down a bit. For a lvl3 vehicle without edges over low cost AV players, makes the DS not so enjoyable for the long run. ADS cost around 1.3M when well fitted. Quite expensive for the fun factor/efficiency/ durability. Skilled pilots will always be more confortable with manual controls, especially during a fight, when i ask a button for the hover mode/ statical fly, is only a little help, it would help to keep a constant high without the worry of always do little corrections or turning around (helpful if you use your DS as a spawn and you want to stay exactly over an objective/point), or to help to stabilize the DS when near buildings and to work against knockback effect. Of course a thing like that should work at slow speeds and not prevent ultra rapid landing/ crashing or pilots hazardous moves, it should be a help for quiet moments.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1974	Posted - 2013.08.30 12:57:00 - [52] - Quote The big differentiator between small turrets and hand held weapons is stabilization. Stabilization makes it possible for gunners to hit a target while the dropship is maneuvering. Take that way and it's suddenly very difficult. The dropship must hold rock steady for any hitscan weapon to be effective, and then the occupants are just as vulnerable as the target. I believe that is what would balance a dropship full of FGs. How much different is that than dropping the FGs to do their work and then picking them up? Everyone is conjuring images of four to six FGs in a dropship, but what team fields so many today? What is the likelihood that anyone would pack that many eggs in one basket? It would instantly attract a ton of AV which would kill it or drive it off.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2832	Posted - 2013.08.30 13:05:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? This is exactly why it could be a problem. I really like the idea of firing out of a dropship as it lands and then hopping out to continue a rampage, but this kind of thing presents a huge obstacle to it being reasonable.
Robert JD Niewiadomski NULLIMPEX INC 457	Posted - 2013.08.30 13:10:00 - [54] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? This is exactly why it could be a problem. I really like the idea of firing out of a dropship as it lands and then hopping out to continue a rampage, but this kind of thing presents a huge obstacle to it being reasonable. What about possible penalties for said weapons inside DS? Lock-on, overheat, dispersion, woble, aim angle or range? Wouldn't it help?
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 761	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:04:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? I don't think it would be a game breaker. One merc with a levelled up Swarm Launcher can keep a dropship on the run. Dropships would have to be reacted to quicker, though. EDIT: I do like the idea of adding wobble to aiming from a dropship. Adds plausible realism and balance to the dropship full of TARS.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 1977	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:11:00 - [56] - Quote We need to examine just what the dropship brings to the table as a shooting platform, both the pro's and the con's. Advantages: Fast insertion and extraction. It is mobile high ground. Disadvantages: It's an unstable platform in all but the most capable hands. It offers zero cover when the doors are open. There is no retreat for passengers. No resupply from standard sources. No nanohives. Everyone sees you and are vulnerable to sniper fire from all over the map. You are vulnerable to AV taking out your ride. So a dropship is great for getting troops to an objective. Well, that's what it's designed for. If they don't jump out then it can extract them just as fast, but then all fire is coming from one direction rather than all over if they had jumped. The advantage of high ground is unevenly distributed. It's great for the MD, but most other weapons don't get such a great benefit. The MD has very limited ammo and will run out pretty quickly, leaving him with nothing to do. Now unless you have a ace pilot nobody is going to hit anything from the dropship. How many of you folks have actually manned a dropship turret? What was it like trying to shoot with a novice pilot? Now remove the turret stabilization and try it again. Pretty useless at range isn't it? Now all the snipers see you hovering rock steady and you can't run around like you can on the ground so you start taking sniper fire and scream for the pilot to close the doors. Then the AV starts up and the pilot has to bug out.
Nihilus Warwick Pradox One 15	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:35:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Honestly? I think it would be great! God forbid we have to adapt to a new threat. Oh poop I got blown up by some guy with a md in a drop ship, better respawn with my av fit! I'd love drop ships to be a threat. Currently they just fly around buzzing at me. I chuck a couple swarms and they either pop or fly away. If they had people on that could maybe shoot back... Basically, 10/10 would bang.
Smooth Assassin Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:39:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Why don't you disable some weapons that can be used in the dropship then?
General Erick Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:44:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? Better idea, Forge Guns.
Nonya Bizznizz DUST University Ivy League 30	Posted - 2013.08.30 14:57:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Seems like a good opportunity to discuss this idea. How would you feel about dropships filled with swarm launchers or mass drivers for example? In a few trailers I have seen merc's holding their weapons in a ready position, as if they can shoot out of the dropship. If we could do that with Swarms (which would be pretty hard because the pilot would have to keep moving to avoid FG's and Railguns) then a dropship could be transformed from a high risk-low reward troop transport to a gunship capable to smite everything in its path with the power of almighty freaking god.



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