Rep Tool should be your primary weapon.

Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference.

A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.

For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.

This is certainly what it seems people want.

The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well.

Whether your healing a heavy

Reviving a teammate

or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.

I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.

We have an Assault suit for that.

A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.

For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.

But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.

While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question

......

Why do you get to bask in the glory of excelling at two roles when everyone else is stuck with one role?

Serious question

Or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.

I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.

We have an Assault suit for that.

Fine with me, just let me respec out of logi first.

See now heres where the stupid comes in.
This game is made of 16 v 16 battles. In skirmish the mode that counts, there are multiple hot zones, further splitting your 16 man team.
This means You'll be running with either 3 other squadmates, 4, or 5. When the hotzones have this few players involved, you can't afford to have a logi not using his gun. If you have a 4v4 or 6v6 hotzone and your logi isnt another gun on the field it becomes 6v5, or 4v3, this is a HUGE difference.
If your logi has no combat ability, then you are completely worthless, logi or not.
If you are not engaging the enemy, then you are nowhere near being useful, and your spot should be taken by an assault.
So many logis out there are garbage and make no difference in battles because they dont engage the enemy, they only try to heal, and their team loses because not enough people are fighting back.
You fighting and engaging the enemy is mandatory no matter your role.
Yet people say logis shouldnt fight? Ok ret@rd go back to cod where you dont have to think.

This, people actually get angry when you don't have a rep tool. I'm not for the whole butt plug in a heavy logi thing that has plagued dust. I like to be on the frontlines its what makes the game fun for me.

It seems pretty straight forward to me. Assault is frontline, the first to catch a bullet and the most likely to go down while breaking through enemy lines. Logi is the second row. Setting up uplinks for reinforcements, supporting fire, keeping assaults alive / watching their backs, and finally mopping up everything that's left when the dust has settled (if it ever does).

Both are combat roles by necessity, but it should be clear why each role requires a different focus. If Logis are the better frontline fighters, then that is certainly backwards.

I see the logistics as being about flexibility. Corporations can certainly define their preferred roles based on their own experience and tactics. The suit frame itself is about being able to develop your own tactics with a reduction in weapon options once on the field.

You decide your role unless you work with a team that tells you what to do.

This is the way it is in high level matches. And that's the bottom line.

Most players haven't experienced this yet. And I think it's a problem for everyone going forward.

If they nerf the killing ability of logis they simply won't have a place in PC.

There is a VAST majority of players in this game that play a logi medic role. Because of our experiences in PC we've asked them to skill into nanohives and uplinks instead of reptools and to forgo the nanite injector.

Out of 200 players in our corp it seems that 50% of them are logi medics. As people get antsy about getting into PC battles it's tough because we only field 1 or 2 logi medics in a 16 man team.

Try going against Outer Heaven with 3 or 4 guys with a rep tool in their hand. Hell they kicked our ass with only 1 guy trying to keep the heavies alive. They will stomp your ass. They will kill the logi and the heavy with a quickness.

It surprises me to see some of the comments from people in corps that I know do not field many logi medics in their PC squads.

I can understand wanting to change this, but I don't see evidence of CCP being able to balance properly.

Agreed, I am wanting to spec into the caldar assault so much to not have a nerfed suit, and because of the skills i have specced being suitable, but then i think of role in PC i can fulfill staying as good logi and being very helpful to the team. and im torn, i might just have to see how bad the callogis nerf is be4 i spend any sp....but it looks pretty bad.

Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.

Wait a min....

How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?

If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff?

If they are better frontline fighters it's because of the person using the suit not because of the suit.

Wow.... I am just in awe of this thread right now. I came in expecting the usual crap of "OMG Logis do everything tha best!!!11!!", but instead I find some realistic and meaningful discussion of the current situation logis are in. Color me surprised.

That said, I agree very much with what THE AMAZING POTHEAD has been saying. Sorry, I forget who said it, but saying "A Logi's primary weapon should be his repair tool" is just ridiculous. We are playing a game where we are fighting to kill one another, and to be worthwhile, a Logi has to help out in that aspect. At the beginning of any fight, when everyone's shields are still up, if you are using your rep tool then you are being useless. As a Logi I go into every fight with my primary out ready to fight. If we win quickly and nobody takes armor damage, then it's damn good that I didn't have my rep tool out. If the fight is even or going badly, then I will likely switch out of my primary weapon and to my rep tool midway through the fight to save the assaults/heavies in my squad. It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost.

It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost.

See this is where your view seems to be skewed.

If you want the medic options to be there, but still be a fighter first and foremost, you go for assault

If you want to have fighting options to be there, but still be a medic first and foremost, you go for logistics.

But that's like your opinion man

Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.

Wait a min....

How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?

If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff?

Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true.
If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively.
Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC.

Why was the second equipment slot removed from the assault suit? Was it "too logi" for an assault to carry two equipments? I want it back, assaults should get two slots so we too could carry nanohives/uplinks/remotes and so on. Logis want to act as super assaults? Sure, but give us assaults a break here.

The issue I have with logis being better assaults than assaults is that there's no reason to even have "assault" if it's outperformed by another suit, while that suit is designed with something else in mind.

Tell me what is the role of the assault, if there's nothing wrong with logis outperforming them? Are we just your meatshields? What is my incentive of picking assault over logi?

The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well.

Whether your healing a heavy

Reviving a teammate

or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.

I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.

We have an Assault suit for that.

How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams?

I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.

But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.

While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question

here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi.

logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad.



EDIT: logibro instead of logi

One for each squad.
We don't really have any logi suit assault players in PC, everyone knows their role, and we stick to it as a team.

I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault.

Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players

What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?

They don't have all that stuff in good corps.

This is certainly what it seems people want.

Why are you concerned about the KDR on the support player?

Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?

I am talking about what the suit can carry. You know the way people keep saying the intent of what CCP meant logis to be.

If logis are only support with weaker health and weaker damage as people keep saying they should be then why should assault be allowed to carry this stuff?

Furthermore Assault should not have mines or explosives. Demolitions is a support role.

Why aren't players complaining about Assault suits not filling their role properly? Why are they so focused on putting the logi suit in a little box but not other classes as well?

it is almost as if the people who say logis should be weak are not playing logis....but in fact play other classes.

Imagine that.

2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads.

Read Zdub's post above.

I'm concerned with being successful in PC as an officer of my corp.

I am talking about what the suit can carry. You know the way people keep saying the intent of what CCP meant logis to be.

If logis are only support with weaker health and weaker damage as people keep saying they should be then why should assault be allowed to carry this stuff?

Furthermore Assault should not have mines or explosives. Demolitions is a support role.

Why aren't players complaining about Assault suits not filling their role properly? Why are they so focused on putting the logi suit in a little box but not other classes as well?

it is almost as if the people who say logis should be weak are not playing logis....but in fact play other classes.

Imagine that.

I hope people are paying attention to this.

And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers?

Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players

What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?

I think you need to read his assessment again.

I see where you're going :) And I agree so I'll play along.

Yes, they are killers because otherwise they wouldn't be able to justify why they deserve a spot in a high stakes PC match.

I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic.

Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities (which is the impression I get from you).

I severely doubt that.

If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true.

I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics.

You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities.

Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh

You just explained why in your question, it made logistics useless. I didn't mind scouts having more than one equipment slot, they need to be something more than paper thin assassins and more equipment would help them in that regard.


Only one logistics suit outperformed assaults- the CaLogi. Minmatar and Gallente are spot on for what they're meant to do, but the Amarr needed that buff to be the true Assault/Logi hybrid. If you're questioning what Assaults are meant for, maybe you should consider speccing into another role or stop playing FPS altogether.

First off, I'm a Cald logi so I'm not happy at this point.

Here is what I do on the battlefield...

I carry proto uplinks and nanohives. I'm usually front line so as we attack an objective or fend off attacks while we are defending I'll place a "hub" to provide armor reps and ammo. I'll place uplinks as they are taken out in defence or to provide a point of entry during an assault on an objective.

I chose this method after talking with DJINN Pheonix. After playing in some PC matches it was clear that we needed more logis with a weapon in their hand instead of a rep tool. Not just that but many more people are shield tanked than armor tanked.

Given the choices and the experiences I've had this was the path that seemed obvious to me. Not flavor of the month, just taking a look at the options available and making a decision based on what I felt would fit my playstyle and be the most effective for my team.

If I were a gallente logi I would have certainly taken up a rep tool as I'd probably be posted up in a heavy armor squad. However I do not like the movement penalties that armor comes with.

Until recently the nanite injector was useless and there are only certain times in a PC battle where it's advisable to pick players up after they go down. Quality teams in PC are usually going to put the person you picked up back down along with the person that picked them up.

MANY corps that I know of advise against using nanite injectors in PC.

The rep tool situation I touched on above, but I'll mention it again here. I higher level games having a rep tool in your hand instead of a gun usually means you are soon to be dead along with the person you are repping.

Given what I mentioned above can we have a grown up conversation about what a logi is supposed to do?

Why was the second equipment slot removed from the assault suit? Was it "too logi" for an assault to carry two equipments? I want it back, assaults should get two slots so we too could carry nanohives/uplinks/remotes and so on. Logis want to act as super assaults? Sure, but give us assaults a break here.

The issue I have with logis being better assaults than assaults is that there's no reason to even have "assault" if it's outperformed by another suit, while that suit is designed with something else in mind.

Tell me what is the role of the assault, if there's nothing wrong with logis outperforming them? Are we just your meatshields? What is my incentive of picking assault over logi?

Rep Tool should be your primary weapon.

Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference.

A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.

For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.

Well your impression is incorrect and I've explained the role I play. The role I play is one that makes it's way into PC battles. It's not the role that blueberries yearn for in pub matches.

I wanted to try and become a high level player. I'm not elite by any means, but I'm a pretty solid player. I learned the playstyle from some top notch elite players.

I've topped 4000 WP in a match. That's tough to do outside of a tank with a defend order. I provide a ton of support. Just not with a rep tool.

Excuse me while I use you as an example of the stupidity plauging 90% of the forums.
Logis are NOT better assaults than assault suits.
Logis have more tanking ability, and as a result better survivability on the frontline. Guess why?
ASSAULT SUITS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY. THEY ARE FRONTLINE SUITS AS A SECONDARY ROLE.
heres the important part.
ASSAULT SUITS ARE MEANT TO FLANK. FLANK. FLANK.
Jesus i cannot stress this enough.
This is the reason they have better strafe,sprint, stamina, stamina regen and shield regen, they are meant for flanking, guerrilla warfare, and battle versatility. They excel first and foremost at flanking but perform other roles like frontlining ( a heavies job) too without being as effective.
Theres a reason the best players in the game use assaults suits, they flank constantly, using guerrilla warfare, and kill more than anyone by doing it, maintain 7+ KDRs.

Jesus christ if you think a logi is a better assault, you're just garbage, the defining characteristic is speed, and use of your speed.

I should have specified; my question is directed at logis, Calogi to be precise, not as a general question by a baffled individual.

In the previous build assaults had two equipment slots at proto level and that caused logis to be less useful, as you have stated above as well. What we have now is exactly the opposite. Calogis can outperform assaults and hereGÇÖs where the arguments come from.

If Calogis see no error in the fact that they are super assaults, then what is the role of the assault in this game? Why should anyone wanting to be an assault spec into assault suits? These were my original questions, directed at logis. Hope you got my point now.

Excuse me while I use you as an example of the stupidity plauging 90% of the forums.
Logis are NOT better assaults than assault suits.
Logis have more tanking ability, and as a result better survivability on the frontline. Guess why?
ASSAULT SUITS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY. THEY ARE FRONTLINE SUITS AS A SECONDARY ROLE.
heres the important part.
ASSAULT SUITS ARE MEANT TO FLANK. FLANK. FLANK.
Jesus i cannot stress this enough.
This is the reason they have better strafe,sprint, stamina, stamina regen and shield regen, they are meant for flanking, guerrilla warfare, and battle versatility. They excel first and foremost at flanking but perform other roles like frontlining ( a heavies job) too without being as effective.
Theres a reason the best players in the game use assaults suits, they flank constantly, using guerrilla warfare, and kill more than anyone by doing it, maintain 7+ KDRs.

Jesus christ if you think a logi is a better assault, you're just garbage, the defining characteristic is speed, and use of your speed.

I disagree, my impression is spot-on, it's just that you've been blinded by the "aggressive-run-and-gun-zerg-rush-we-are-major-league-gaming-athletes" playstyle that dominates PC from what I can gather.

Those "top-notch, elite players" have corrupted your understanding of what it is to be support. They have you believing that "Assault with a side order of support" is in fact the entree Support dish when it isn't.

I'm willing to bet that your 4000 WP games were when there was a defend order on a squadmate who was camping multiple nanos of yours along with the rest of your squad, which is essentially the same as the Frago'd tank when all of you are running calogi.

It's ok, we're not here to judge you, we're trying to give you the True Logi version of an Intervention.

We're doing this because we care, would you like a hug?

When did Assault get reinterpreted to mean Scout?

I have to call Bull Pucky on that. Even a Logi Bro needs to kill or drive off the enemy in order to revive a downed comrade. Passivist Logi are responsible for people not wanting to be revived anymore.

Mind pointing me to the assault suit that can carry 2, 3, or 4 equipments?

I seem to have missed those, thanks man, appreciate the help.

The same logic that says Logis should never be used for assault dictates that assault and scouts should never carry support equipment.

Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities (which is the impression I get from you).

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to side with Thor and say that you're the one who's wrong. The zerg type play style you describe is what's dominant in PC right now because that is just what works best in Dust atm.

People seem to have this mystical vision of the perfect logi that never picks up a gun but is extremely effective merely by boosting the effectiveness of the teammates. What I'm saying is that this is an illusion, and currently doesn't really have a place at high levels of competitive play. I don't even know if this 'pacifist logi' that people seem to want is even what CCP intends. The reality is that a logi still has to be another gun-toting member of the team.

They shouldn't be able to PRIMARY as assaults

I don't remember the last time I saw a scout or assault PRIMARY as support.

Go figure

What this guy said.

I have not now, nor ever, stated that Logis should be pacifists. Logis do need to be able to kill, though not nearly with the efficiency of Assaults. Logis should worry more about focusing fire on reddots that are trying to kill them or their teammates. Outside of that, Logis should be more opportunistic with their killing as killing isn't their primary intended role, Support is (laying equipment to fortify blue objectives, repair/resupply/revive etc).

Logi == Support
Logi != Pacifist

IMO A logi is supposed to have enough health and firepower to SUPPORT the team, sticking mostly behind te frontline assault players, or to a heavy (tank), only really using its firearm when its an absolute nessisity, to clear an area and revive, or provide covering fire while its heavy is reloading. (Mass driver for area denial, causing enemies to take cover, maybe getting a kill it two in the process when extra fire power is required in the squad for advancement)

The current issue that most players are having is that the Cal Logi suit was the only logi suit that could fill 3 rolls at once: Assault, support, and tank.

It is the only suit that can run proto weapons/equipment, and moduels at the same time without a CPU or PG extender, giving it the ability to not only be a "jack of all trades" but a "master of all trades" as well.
The lack of side arm was never a major issue as a Cal Logi because the reload speed on the AR is 3 sec standard, 2.55 sec with reload fully maxed out, and in those 3 sec, your shields are already coming back due to the fact that the shield recharge delay timer is still set to start after the first hit, not the last. (As a Cal Assault main account, and Cal Logi Alt to "see what all the fuss was about)

Just my opinion, take from it what you will.

For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.

If they are better frontline fighters it's because of the person using the suit not because of the suit.

Let the record show: ZDub just said I was the ****.

There is a role for combat oriented Logis, its called the Amarr logi. With the next buff, I suspect it will go from least popular logi to most popular. Yet, it still isn't going to be preferable for assaults to use.

If you wanted to fill the role of combat logi, you should have had some foresight to realize the callogi was going to be rebalanced. Just a suggestion, have you tried maxing modules but bumping down to maining a SMG?

But this is not what the community seems to support.

There is no choice. The people have spoken and CCP has listened.

There is no choice. They need to change the term from Logi to Medic and they need to make the rep tool a required item on every logi suit.

But only after they allow me to spec out of the suit.

Quote from google search

"logistics plural of lo-+gis-+tics (Noun)
Noun
1) The detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.
2) The organization of moving, housing, and supplying troops and equipment."

No where does that mean that we are limited to being a medic(injector + repair gun). Hell medic isn't even directly mentioned.

This in mind, I play an explosives point defense logistics. I run Amarr and my three equipment slots are RE's, Proximity Mines, and Nanohives. This allows me to move equipment around and supply troops with ammo.

Logistics just means we get the fancy toys to keep our troops moving, functioning, and having a place to rest. We have many varied tools already to help us perform our role, and more to come later with mobile shield gens and deploy able stealth equipment.

The fact that we can kill something is just a means to defend ourselves and the equipment we place on the battlefield. We are not meant to be the front line pushers, but we are expected to secure the area with the necessary equipment to hold the area and win the battle/war.

If your corp won't let you be a medic in PC, there are many other avenues to fill as a logistics that you should discuss with your leaders to find out what tools they need to win. Many leaders may not understand logis fully and they may need to be educated. Having more logis than just injector/repair gun monkeys can be highly beneficial as we can carry more of what is needed to move our troops (uplinks) and equipment (nanohives).

The hardest part is getting people to stop rushing forward long enough to need the stuff we can provide sometimes. If people rush forward all the time and die, of course they won't need ammo, and likely their corpse will be too far to revive safely. If people take cover when getting shot, then that will give us time to be that force multiplier that CCP says we are. Cause if they keep dying and run out of ammo assaulting a point, it makes it easier to kill them.

The nerf was not to stop Logi from fighting on the front lines. The nerf was due to the Cali Logi suit being Over Powered. The nerf brings it more in line with other Logi suits.

Rep Tool should be your primary weapon.

Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference.

A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.

For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.

I cant agree with all of this, cause never getting a kill is impossible.

"Medic" starter suit is an assault. Juuuuuuust sayin. LOL

It is worth pointing out that when CCP work out how to give bonuses to Equipment, it will probably be the Gallente Logi that gets the Remote Rep bonus.

Caldari are Shield tankers so Caldari Logi will likely get a bonus to Nano Hives or Drop Uplinks.

I am hoping for a Remote Explosives bonus for Minmitar.

Sorry, I was exaggerating for effect. I know that nobody is saying that logis shouldn't kill anyone at all. Please just re-read my post and replace 'pacifist' with 'pure support'.

PS: Zdub, totally missed your sarcasm on that first post, but looking back it's an obvious parody on how some people think of the logi. Well played.

It is worth pointing out that when CCP work out how to give bonuses to Equipment, it will probably be the Gallente Logi that gets the Remote Rep bonus.

Caldari are Shield tankers so Caldari Logi will likely get a bonus to Nano Hives or Drop Uplinks.

I am hoping for a Remote Explosives bonus for Minmitar.

That is correct... its apparently CCPs vision for the logi. Which is not what I, or about 90% of people who play logi, signed up for.

I suspect pretty soon Logis will be losing their LW slot for a sidearm.

Don't even joke about that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics

Not my opinion. Still doesnt mean you dont have to carry a gun. But it also doesnt mention anything about frontline combat at all. I'm sure that logistics officers carried a sidearm (as all field military do). The fact i think is that the Cal Logi had better shield tanking than the assault class, making the assault suit a poor choice since you dont have as many equipment slots. Having better shields, CPU and PG, equipment slots, and H/L modules made the assault obsolete in terms of recieving/delivering damage. Why would i be 'assault' when i could be a 'logi' with all those benifits. CCP wants 'logistics' to adhear to the term that has been used for centuries.

I'm not joking.

Honestly, i'm pretty sure i'm just gonna take a break from this game. Come back in a couple of years once Sony has cut its ties and it makes its way to the PC.

Here's a question: If you believe the balancing changes to the Cal Logi suit make it unsuitable for fighting, does that mean the same is true for all other Logi suits? How come nobody is complaining about that then?

In all honesty I wish I was spec'd into the Min Logi suit because of it's versatility. I spec'd into Cal Logi because the bonus was too hard to pass up, but I'm not sure why I'm a bad person for doing that.

Everybody is pointing their finger and laughing and such. It's kind of strange.

What's really strange about the Cal Logi nerf is that it's only directed at those who use it as an assault suit. But it's not going to stop those who use it as an assault suit. It might make them spec further into Electronics and use a CPU mod, but it won't effect them because they likely only had an uplink and perhaps an RE fitted.

The nerf is only effecting those who use the Cal Logi as a logi.

Obviously the term logi is a point of contention, but this is a point that seems hard to argue in my opinion.

I'd think that the CPM could have helped come up with a balance, but there are only a few who actually play the game. Kain being the only only I know of playing it at a high level.

To me the logi should have been left alone. The assault player doesn't have to spend nearly as much SP for his/her main role so they could have been branching out into different suits or more weapons before a logi.

Logis are supposed to fill a support role. A multiplier in the squad and team hence the multiple equipment slots. Whether you are healing, dropping uplinks, scanning, restocking, you are to fill a support role. That doesn't mean you can't fight on the frontlines but you're not gonna be on the same level as Assaults. Caldari Logi's were broke...they promoted shield tanking that made them a bullet sponge when Caldari Assaults are squishier. Support roles in games are not meant to tank damage, they are meant to support the team against the other. So since the Logi is supporting the team with healing they should have higher recovery on their own so they don't have to rely on another for healing. This higher recovery is meant to make the Logi role less about tanking and instead being behind frontline-men to support them and able to get back into top condition quick if they do get hit. So now the skills make sense where Caldari Assault suits now get the shield tanking while Caldari Logi suits get higher shield recovery.

No ****... but thats what CCP wants to turn logis into.

Fine with me... just give me the SP I wasted on the suit back so I can put it into a real suit that wont be irrelevant and for pub non factors that have no hope if going positive ever.

I donGÇÖt see any evidence to suggest that CCP donGÇÖt want Logi participating in a fire fight. At the same time that they nerfed Caldari Logi, they also buffed Amarr logi, giving them a sidearm at the Advanced suit.

The Caldari logi will still be able to shoot after the nerf, just as other Logi suits do now.

Guys, try to remember when interpreting CCPGÇÖs actions that the Caldari Logi suit is not the only Logi suit.

The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well.

Whether your healing a heavy

Reviving a teammate

or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.

I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.

We have an Assault suit for that.

I severely doubt that.

If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true.

I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics.

You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities.

Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh

The shields on a Cal Logi are not "better" than those on a Cal Assault. They have more hitpoints, but they regen slow as ****. It's a situational tradeoff.

And FTLOG... why don't people understand the Cal Logi is *NOT* better at dishing out damage than an assault? Stacking Damage Mods results in the exact same drawbacks a Cal Assault has when stacking damage mods? "More slots yo!" Well... one of those slots is an energizer to make up for craptastic shield recharge speed, so we're back to square one with 4x usable slots unless we want to gimp our longevity for 2x AR rounds worth of buffer.

Sidearm and old lolreload bonus on Cal Assault meant higher continuous DPS and the ability to fit situational sidearm (flaylock or SMG for CQC next to something like a TAC AR)

but w/e ... we'll see what loss of 50+ CPU does to me. heh

Excuse me while I use you as an example of the stupidity plauging 90% of the forums.
Logis are NOT better assaults than assault suits.
Logis have more tanking ability, and as a result better survivability on the frontline. Guess why?
ASSAULT SUITS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY. THEY ARE FRONTLINE SUITS AS A SECONDARY ROLE.
heres the important part.
ASSAULT SUITS ARE MEANT TO FLANK. FLANK. FLANK.
Jesus i cannot stress this enough.
This is the reason they have better strafe,sprint, stamina, stamina regen and shield regen, they are meant for flanking, guerrilla warfare, and battle versatility. They excel first and foremost at flanking but perform other roles like frontlining ( a heavies job) too without being as effective.
Theres a reason the best players in the game use assaults suits, they flank constantly, using guerrilla warfare, and kill more than anyone by doing it, maintain 7+ KDRs.

Jesus christ if you think a logi is a better assault, you're just garbage, the defining characteristic is speed, and use of your speed.

To be honest this nerf isn't hurting the guys who use the suit as an assault. They'll just take of two of their equipments off and call it a day. Its hurting the real logis. Shield extenders take a butt load of pg and now we have to worry about pg and cpu usage. A logi that can't soak up damage and defend his self at the same time is a useless logi. Once a good squad figures out who the logi on your team is its hunting season. They'll clip that heavies life line in a sec. I wish some of you play as a logi before you start criticizing our methods.

In DUST University we would call you a Combat Engineer. This is a perfectly acceptable application of the Logistics suit.

In DUST University we generally break the use of Logi suits into three categories:

- Logi Bro: Uses a Rep tool to keep people alive. Mostly used to support Heavies.

- Combat Engineer: Uses Nano Hives to keep the team supplied and/or Drop Uplinks to help your team get back into the fight faster. May use a scanner to provide intel on enemy positions. May fit a remote explosive as well.

- Explosives Expert: Uses multiple types of explosives to booby traps objectives and other choke points. This includes the Mad Bomber fit which fills all slots with explosives.

Of course there is some crossover, but most logi will identify mostly with one of these categories.

These are my three fits

Well you need to delete the other two and let the assault guys handle everything.

You just need to rep them while they are doing it. Even if you are in a shield heavy squad that doesn't need reps. Just do it anyway.

Well you need to delete the other two and let the assault guys handle everything.

You just need to rep them while they are doing it. Even if you are in a shield heavy squad that doesn't need reps. Just do it anyway.

it is a situational trade off, most people would rather have more shields and throw on a recharger to compensate. 'Better' is subject to opinion, true. But im sure alot of people would agree that more hitpoints are 'better' than faster regen (at this point). Id rather have a stronger defence wall, rather than one i could 'rebuild' faster. And the regen wasnt "slow as **** ", it was 4/6, better than anything in the game by default ( http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/logistics-dropsuit-changes-in-uprising-1.3/ ). I guess my 'opinion' boils down to: a 'logistic' suit could take more damage than a frontline 'assault' suit(logi 5% shield bonus to extenders per lvl), making it more of a frontline choice than most, while having a higher CPU/PG and equipment slots. I also understand that damage is an even slate, the only reason i added that was because there is equipment that can be used to deliver damage(any explosive except grenades) meaning more damage delivery options.

Ok, this is beyond getting hyperbolic. Ironically most of the people that I see actually saying a logi's hand should always have a rep tool are the ones saying it sarcastically. No one expects you to never defend yourself, but not being as efficient as assault at frontline work is totally reasonable.

Funny thing about this post as well is that all 3 of the fits have the logi drawing on benefits of their equipment, not the primary weapon slots.

We're all suffering from playing an incomplete game that lacks even the full set of basics.

That doesn't change the fact that CCP has been very clear about their stance of making Logi's be primarily focused on support, and their desire and intent to make good on that vision.

You're welcome to complain here in General, or continue to provide feedback in the Feedback section or IRC chat, but at the end of the day, if you wish to focus on slaying while playing as logistics, you're going to find yourself overall less efficient at what you do.

Now if you wanted to play a support character, then hey, guess what, you're ahead of the curve.

Recharge delay was 4/6. Regen rate is slow as ****.

Your point about most people prefering extra buffer is debatable and I don't care enough right now to look up % advantage in shield HP vs. disadvantage in shield regen (combined with speed regen also allows more effective use of cover, but w/e.. most people don't know how to do that). Coming from a Cal Assault to a Cal Logi I really, really miss my regen and would trade the assaults for it in a heartbeat. Rather have that than 5hp/s armor TBH.

People are mad because Cal Logis are hard to kill. Mindless nerd rage caused that to = "OMFG Cal Logis are so much more effective at killing things"... but it's just not true. They just (currently) live longer. Damage is not an even slate. Pointing out RE/Proxy damage is really really reaching just to avoid saying "yeah, you're right, assaults have higher DPS".

Ok, this is beyond getting hyperbolic. Ironically most of the people that I see actually saying a logi's hand should always have a rep tool are the ones saying it sarcastically. No one expects you to never defend yourself, but not being as efficient as assault at frontline work is totally reasonable.

Funny thing about this post as well is that all 3 of the fits have the logi drawing on benefits of their equipment, not the primary weapon slots.

Please refrain from posting in my thread any longer. I feel like I'm talking to my brother's kids or something.

I think he was being sarcastic.

I'll post in your thread as often as I feel. Block me little bro.

I've just been pointing to CCPs tendencies, explanations, and general desires for the class.

You post a thread asking what role the logi should fill, but you don't want discussion; you want to be right no matter what. Logi's are the wonder unit that do it all, and they shouldn't be touched, right?

I look forward to bathing in your tears when the class is fixed like CCP has stated they intend to fix it.

I do want discussion, but I've stated my playstyle and what I bring to the table.

You keep stating that I use the suit as an assault suit which is not the case.

Whatever man. We can keep talking.

I'm not sure what you and I are going to accomplish going back and forth though.

I'm not sure what you and I are going to accomplish going back and forth though.

He does have a point. What you do sounds like a better fit for the assault save that you would have to choose between the nanohive or uplinks. Being logi and being on the front line needn't be mutually exclusive, but expecting to be the best option to be there isn't reasonably balanced.

I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.

But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.

While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question

What's wrong with both?

How is an assault guy fit proto repping hives, proto uplinks, and proto ammo hives?

Just curious?

How is an assault guy going to drop a 3 second spawn uplink while the other squad members are getting repped and getting ammo while I'm covering them doing so?

I can drop two of those proto healing hives and rep an entire squad to full health in seconds. Any guys that went down can be back in the fight in 3 seconds while we get our **** together. Everybody has full health and we are good to go in seconds.

The enemy doesn't have as much time to adapt as they normally would. You have to remember that the enemy that pushed your objective dropped a 3 second uplink nearby and is coming at you in a hurry.

But I'm going to stop. I'm tired of explaining what should be obvious.

Good question

CCP should just take away the precious assault suits equipment slot

and give the suit an extra high or low

anyone spec'd into an assault suit should stay off this thread

a logi is whatever a logi wants to be and do

they have a set amount of equipment slots and I know they use every single one of them

their needed on the frontline and their needed to stay back and cover the objectives

Ok, so then the equipment is more important than the frontline role? If you want the equipment stay logi by all means. If you value the squad support then do as you have. That's not the feeling one gets from the op, but from this post it seems that way.

That said, that is the role of your suit, not the frontline work you mentioned in the op. Do the 2 need to be completely divorced? No, and they aren't, your suit just isn't designed to make you king at it. You had the answer to your question all along apparently. Why was this thread even created?

I'm really starting to get a "Logis don't NEED a Light Weapon Slot" vibe from this thread.

Swapping it for a Sidearm Slot (or giving them a Logi Weapon Slot selection of Sidearm, LR, MD, PC, SL) doesn't remove anything necessary for using Equipment and it will help the Logi conform more to the "Support" role rather than this bastardized "Assport" role that seems to have developed.

That's definitely not how I mean to come across. In my opinion support includes fire support, especially in the case of trying to clear hostile stragglers for a safe friendly revive, etc. I'm not here to promote pigeonholing anyone, just to point out that not being the all around best is a non issue.

I'm really starting to get a "Logis don't NEED a Light Weapon Slot" vibe from this thread.

Swapping it for a Sidearm Slot (or giving them a Logi Weapon Slot selection of Sidearm, LR, MD, PC, SL) doesn't remove anything necessary for using Equipment and it will help the Logi conform more to the "Support" role rather than this bastardized "Assport" role that seems to have developed.

What if you spec'd into both? The equipment alone guarantees I have more SP in my logi than my assault after taking the fitting into account, so how does that count?

Assault are for the sheep that just run and shoot all day what a boring life.

I'm not sure you really understand what the "support" role means once you are playing teams in full Proto gear. Walking behind someone with a rep tool is derp mode. If you removed light weapons from logis, you would see a lot less logis on PC teams.

I'm not sure you really understand what the "support" role means once you are playing teams in full Proto gear. Walking behind someone with a rep tool is derp mode. If you removed light weapons from logis, you would see a lot less logis on PC teams.

Ok, so then the equipment is more important than the frontline role? If you want the equipment stay logi by all means. If you value the squad support then do as you have. That's not the feeling one gets from the op, but from this post it seems that way.

That said, that is the role of your suit, not the frontline work you mentioned in the op. Do the 2 need to be completely divorced? No, and they aren't, your suit just isn't designed to make you king at it. You had the answer to your question all along apparently. Why was this thread even created?

question: why does logi get a shorter recharge delay than assault? shouldn't it be the opposite? what role is assault supposed to fill, exactly? they're just logis with slower shield delay, slightly faster movement speed, and a lot less slots

If you take away 53 CPU (that's the impact if skills are considered) then you take away the logi element and are left with only assault. It impacts the players using the suit as an assault suit ZERO.

silly COD players

The actions CCP took don't address the Calogi being used as an assault suit. It made it harder on those using it as a logi suit.

And we don't know yet what other changes they have in store as they are hinting at more awesome news for logis.

My problem is with the core belief by a majority of the people on these forums that a logi is supposed to have a rep tool in his hand or that he shouldn't be effective at killing.

Perhaps this belief will have merit when the battlefield is opened up to more players, but as it stands you have to be an effective killer in order to participate at a high level (PC).

The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well.

Whether your healing a heavy

Reviving a teammate

or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.

I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.

We have an Assault suit for that.

First off, I'm a Cald logi so I'm not happy at this point.

Here is what I do on the battlefield...

I carry proto uplinks and nanohives. I'm usually front line so as we attack an objective or fend off attacks while we are defending I'll place a "hub" to provide armor reps and ammo. I'll place uplinks as they are taken out in defence or to provide a point of entry during an assault on an objective.

I chose this method after talking with DJINN Pheonix. After playing in some PC matches it was clear that we needed more logis with a weapon in their hand instead of a rep tool. Not just that but many more people are shield tanked than armor tanked.

Given the choices and the experiences I've had this was the path that seemed obvious to me. Not flavor of the month, just taking a look at the options available and making a decision based on what I felt would fit my playstyle and be the most effective for my team.

If I were a gallente logi I would have certainly taken up a rep tool as I'd probably be posted up in a heavy armor squad. However I do not like the movement penalties that armor comes with.

Until recently the nanite injector was useless and there are only certain times in a PC battle where it's advisable to pick players up after they go down. Quality teams in PC are usually going to put the person you picked up back down along with the person that picked them up.

MANY corps that I know of advise against using nanite injectors in PC.

The rep tool situation I touched on above, but I'll mention it again here. I higher level games having a rep tool in your hand instead of a gun usually means you are soon to be dead along with the person you are repping.

Given what I mentioned above can we have a grown up conversation about what a logi is supposed to do?

if anything logis should be on the frontlines healing and killing

its the damn assaults role to cover the logibro's ass while hes out there healing and repping

but the silly assault suits believe its the other way around

silly COD players

Look up the the terms for both 'Logistics' and 'Assault' then tell me whom should be covering whom. I dont play COD and I can understand the difference.

Look up the the terms for both 'Logistics' and 'Assault' then tell me whom should be covering whom. I dont play COD and I can understand the difference.

I'm already running two enhanced CPU and one enhanced PG just so I can fill all my equipment slots, with the new nerf taking away 40+ (after bonuses) CPU on proto, I am going to be lucky if I can fit more than one equipment on my suit. Which ironically makes me even more like an assault, but much less effective.

I'm already running two enhanced CPU and one enhanced PG just so I can fill all my equipment slots, with the new nerf taking away 40+ (after bonuses) CPU on proto, I am going to be lucky if I can fit more than one equipment on my suit. Which ironically makes me even more like an assault, but much less effective.

I'm already running two enhanced CPU and one enhanced PG just so I can fill all my equipment slots, with the new nerf taking away 40+ (after bonuses) CPU on proto, I am going to be lucky if I can fit more than one equipment on my suit. Which ironically makes me even more like an assault, but much less effective.

People keep saying it's a loss of 40-50+ after skills, Are all of you actually meaning to say after skills + CPU mods?

At this point, I think the CPU nerf is a 'pay for your sins' nerf intended to offset all that time we were so 'extremely overpowered'.

At this point, I'm gonna stop playing until 1.4.

At which point we'll see what they have in store, and FF14 will be out. I can decide then if I care to keep playing this game.

Given CCPs track record of underwhelming updates, more likely than not I'm just gonna bounce.

Me personally dont care if players are going to stop playing just because they dont have their OP suit.
Who knows, maybe new players now wont get stomped and start playing the game...
So in the end we loose try hards , we gain new player base.

Hell, and dont think im 100% biased, im a SCOUT player but my ''assault suit'' is a caldari logi, and im happy with this nerf....CAL LOGI still have enough slots to adapt to almost any situation...