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Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
484
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Posted - 2013.07.23 18:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote: For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better.
Let the record show: ZDub just said I was the ****. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
484
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skyhound Solbrave wrote:There is a role for combat oriented Logis, its called the Amarr logi. With the next buff, I suspect it will go from least popular logi to most popular. Yet, it still isn't going to be preferable for assaults to use.
If you wanted to fill the role of combat logi, you should have had some foresight to realize the callogi was going to be rebalanced. Just a suggestion, have you tried maxing modules but bumping down to maining a SMG? Actually with three equipment slots just like the Amarr logi, the Cal Logi was combat oriented as well. Rather than a sidearm for increased offense, however, the Cal Logi was given increased defensive potential and tank.
inb4 three months from now: "There is no role for combat oriented Logis... if you wanted to fill the role of combat logi, you should have had some foresight to roll an assault instead and realize the Amarr logi was going to be rebalanced and lose its sidearm..." |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
486
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadowswipe wrote:Quote from google search
"logistics plural of lo-+gis-+tics (Noun) Noun 1) The detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies. 2) The organization of moving, housing, and supplying troops and equipment."
No where does that mean that we are limited to being a medic(injector + repair gun). Hell medic isn't even directly mentioned.
This in mind, I play an explosives point defense logistics. I run Amarr and my three equipment slots are RE's, Proximity Mines, and Nanohives. This allows me to move equipment around and supply troops with ammo.
Logistics just means we get the fancy toys to keep our troops moving, functioning, and having a place to rest. We have many varied tools already to help us perform our role, and more to come later with mobile shield gens and deploy able stealth equipment.
The fact that we can kill something is just a means to defend ourselves and the equipment we place on the battlefield. We are not meant to be the front line pushers, but we are expected to secure the area with the necessary equipment to hold the area and win the battle/war.
If your corp won't let you be a medic in PC, there are many other avenues to fill as a logistics that you should discuss with your leaders to find out what tools they need to win. Many leaders may not understand logis fully and they may need to be educated. Having more logis than just injector/repair gun monkeys can be highly beneficial as we can carry more of what is needed to move our troops (uplinks) and equipment (nanohives).
The hardest part is getting people to stop rushing forward long enough to need the stuff we can provide sometimes. If people rush forward all the time and die, of course they won't need ammo, and likely their corpse will be too far to revive safely. If people take cover when getting shot, then that will give us time to be that force multiplier that CCP says we are. Cause if they keep dying and run out of ammo assaulting a point, it makes it easier to kill them. "Medic" starter suit is an assault. Juuuuuuust sayin. LOL |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
486
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I see the logistics as being about flexibility. Corporations can certainly define their preferred roles based on their own experience and tactics. The suit frame itself is about being able to develop your own tactics with a reduction in weapon options once on the field.
You decide your role unless you work with a team that tells you what to do.
But this is not what the community seems to support. There is no choice. The people have spoken and CCP has listened. There is no choice. They need to change the term from Logi to Medic and they need to make the rep tool a required item on every logi suit. But only after they allow me to spec out of the suit. The nerf was not to stop Logi from fighting on the front lines. The nerf was due to the Cali Logi suit being Over Powered. The nerf brings it more in line with other Logi suits. I like that you capitalize "Over Powered" ... people DO seem to invoke it like some deity of nerf. |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
486
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cpt Merdock wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Rep Tool should be your primary weapon.
Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference.
A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.
For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better. I cant agree with all of this, cause never getting a kill is impossible. No it's not |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
489
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spectre-M wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics
Not my opinion. Still doesnt mean you dont have to carry a gun. But it also doesnt mention anything about frontline combat at all. I'm sure that logistics officers carried a sidearm (as all field military do). The fact i think is that the Cal Logi had better shield tanking than the assault class, making the assault suit a poor choice since you dont have as many equipment slots. Having better shields, CPU and PG, equipment slots, and H/L modules made the assault obsolete in terms of recieving/delivering damage. Why would i be 'assault' when i could be a 'logi' with all those benifits. CCP wants 'logistics' to adhear to the term that has been used for centuries. The shields on a Cal Logi are not "better" than those on a Cal Assault. They have more hitpoints, but they regen slow as ****. It's a situational tradeoff.
And FTLOG... why don't people understand the Cal Logi is *NOT* better at dishing out damage than an assault? Stacking Damage Mods results in the exact same drawbacks a Cal Assault has when stacking damage mods? "More slots yo!" Well... one of those slots is an energizer to make up for craptastic shield recharge speed, so we're back to square one with 4x usable slots unless we want to gimp our longevity for 2x AR rounds worth of buffer.
Sidearm and old lolreload bonus on Cal Assault meant higher continuous DPS and the ability to fit situational sidearm (flaylock or SMG for CQC next to something like a TAC AR)
but w/e ... we'll see what loss of 50+ CPU does to me. heh |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
489
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Sorry, I was exaggerating for effect. I know that nobody is saying that logis shouldn't kill anyone at all. Please just re-read my post and replace 'pacifist' with 'pure support'.
PS: Zdub, totally missed your sarcasm on that first post, but looking back it's an obvious parody on how some people think of the logi. Well played. That is correct... its apparently CCPs vision for the logi. Which is not what I, or about 90% of people who play logi, signed up for. I suspect pretty soon Logis will be losing their LW slot for a sidearm. Don't even joke about that... I'm not joking. Honestly, i'm pretty sure i'm just gonna take a break from this game. Come back in a couple of years once Sony has cut its ties and it makes its way to the PC. Nahhh... stick around, just level up an Ishukone SMG and run it next to a TAC AR on a Minmatar Assault.
That's my plan anyway :) |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
490
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Spectre-M wrote:Rogatien Merc wrote:Spectre-M wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_logistics
Not my opinion. Still doesnt mean you dont have to carry a gun. But it also doesnt mention anything about frontline combat at all. I'm sure that logistics officers carried a sidearm (as all field military do). The fact i think is that the Cal Logi had better shield tanking than the assault class, making the assault suit a poor choice since you dont have as many equipment slots. Having better shields, CPU and PG, equipment slots, and H/L modules made the assault obsolete in terms of recieving/delivering damage. Why would i be 'assault' when i could be a 'logi' with all those benifits. CCP wants 'logistics' to adhear to the term that has been used for centuries. The shields on a Cal Logi are not "better" than those on a Cal Assault. They have more hitpoints, but they regen slow as ****. It's a situational tradeoff. And FTLOG... why don't people understand the Cal Logi is *NOT* better at dishing out damage than an assault? Stacking Damage Mods results in the exact same drawbacks a Cal Assault has when stacking damage mods? "More slots yo!" Well... one of those slots is an energizer to make up for craptastic shield recharge speed, so we're back to square one with 4x usable slots unless we want to gimp our longevity for 2x AR rounds worth of buffer. Sidearm and old lolreload bonus on Cal Assault meant higher continuous DPS and the ability to fit situational sidearm (flaylock or SMG for CQC next to something like a TAC AR) but w/e ... we'll see what loss of 50+ CPU does to me. heh it is a situational trade off, most people would rather have more shields and throw on a recharger to compensate. 'Better' is subject to opinion, true. But im sure alot of people would agree that more hitpoints are 'better' than faster regen (at this point). Id rather have a stronger defence wall, rather than one i could 'rebuild' faster. And the regen wasnt "slow as **** ", it was 4/6, better than anything in the game by default ( http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/logistics-dropsuit-changes-in-uprising-1.3/ ). I guess my 'opinion' boils down to: a 'logistic' suit could take more damage than a frontline 'assault' suit(logi 5% shield bonus to extenders per lvl), making it more of a frontline choice than most, while having a higher CPU/PG and equipment slots. I also understand that damage is an even slate, the only reason i added that was because there is equipment that can be used to deliver damage(any explosive except grenades) meaning more damage delivery options. Recharge delay was 4/6. Regen rate is slow as ****.
Your point about most people prefering extra buffer is debatable and I don't care enough right now to look up % advantage in shield HP vs. disadvantage in shield regen (combined with speed regen also allows more effective use of cover, but w/e.. most people don't know how to do that). Coming from a Cal Assault to a Cal Logi I really, really miss my regen and would trade the assaults for it in a heartbeat. Rather have that than 5hp/s armor TBH.
People are mad because Cal Logis are hard to kill. Mindless nerd rage caused that to = "OMFG Cal Logis are so much more effective at killing things"... but it's just not true. They just (currently) live longer. Damage is not an even slate. Pointing out RE/Proxy damage is really really reaching just to avoid saying "yeah, you're right, assaults have higher DPS". |
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