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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5421
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 16:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost. See this is where your view seems to be skewed.
If you want the medic options to be there, but still be a fighter first and foremost, you go for assault
If you want to have fighting options to be there, but still be a medic first and foremost, you go for logistics.
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Sleepy Shadow
L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 16:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Why was the second equipment slot removed from the assault suit? Was it "too logi" for an assault to carry two equipments? I want it back, assaults should get two slots so we too could carry nanohives/uplinks/remotes and so on. Logis want to act as super assaults? Sure, but give us assaults a break here.
The issue I have with logis being better assaults than assaults is that there's no reason to even have "assault" if it's outperformed by another suit, while that suit is designed with something else in mind.
Tell me what is the role of the assault, if there's nothing wrong with logis outperforming them? Are we just your meatshields? What is my incentive of picking assault over logi? |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
691
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 16:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost. See this is where your view seems to be skewed. If you want the medic options to be there, but still be a fighter first and foremost, you go for assault If you want to have fighting options to be there, but still be a medic first and foremost, you go for logistics.
But that's like your opinion man.
With one equipment slot an assault guy in a well built squad should have either an uplink or a remote explosive.
But that's like my opinion. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5421
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 16:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:But that's like your opinion man Yet unlike your opinion, my opinion is backed up by the developers reducing the logistics suits combat abilities, along with their desire to enhance their support abilities.
I wanted to play a slayer, so I didn't build my slayer build on the support platform. |
The Infected One
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
327
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff?
Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
693
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Infected One wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC.
How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3106
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sleepy Shadow wrote:Why was the second equipment slot removed from the assault suit? Was it "too logi" for an assault to carry two equipments? I want it back, assaults should get two slots so we too could carry nanohives/uplinks/remotes and so on. Logis want to act as super assaults? Sure, but give us assaults a break here. You just explained why in your question, it made logistics useless. I didn't mind scouts having more than one equipment slot, they need to be something more than paper thin assassins and more equipment would help them in that regard.
Sleepy Shadow wrote:The issue I have with logis being better assaults than assaults is that there's no reason to even have "assault" if it's outperformed by another suit, while that suit is designed with something else in mind.
Tell me what is the role of the assault, if there's nothing wrong with logis outperforming them? Are we just your meatshields? What is my incentive of picking assault over logi? Only one logistics suit outperformed assaults- the CaLogi. Minmatar and Gallente are spot on for what they're meant to do, but the Amarr needed that buff to be the true Assault/Logi hybrid. If you're questioning what Assaults are meant for, maybe you should consider speccing into another role or stop playing FPS altogether. |
TITANIC Xangore
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
103
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:08:00 -
[38] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well.
Whether your healing a heavy
Reviving a teammate
or simple placing uplinks all those help the team.
I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat.
We have an Assault suit for that.
I agree with you, but there are times that a logi suit can be used. Snipers can make good use of it sicne we are away from support and often need to carry our own uplinks and hives. And while not having a sidearm is bad, it's not the end of the world if you play smart. |
The Infected One
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
327
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Infected One wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC. How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams?
One for each squad. We don't really have any logi suit assault players in PC, everyone knows their role, and we stick to it as a team. |
Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi.
logi=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. |
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
152
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cannon Fodder |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
707
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Logi Stician wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi
I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
The Infected One wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Infected One wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC. How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams? One for each squad. We don't really have any logi suit assault players in PC, everyone knows their role, and we stick to it as a team.
Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players
What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:21:00 -
[44] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Logi Stician wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault.
I think you need to read his assessment again. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1208
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
In PC... true logis are good for only one thing really... Uplinks.
Rep tools and injectors have no place in PC.
Nanohives are so-so. And triage nanohives are a token novelty (usually just end up getting fluxed anyways).
If you have more than 2 logis in PC, you are putting your team at a significant disadvantage. And both of those logis better be carrying proto uplinks and spamming them like crazy.
If assaults had 2 equipment slots, then logis would be completely irrelevant in PC. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players
What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
Why are you concerned about the KDR on the support player?
|
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
750
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? They don't have all that stuff in good corps.
I am talking about what the suit can carry. You know the way people keep saying the intent of what CCP meant logis to be.
If logis are only support with weaker health and weaker damage as people keep saying they should be then why should assault be allowed to carry this stuff?
Furthermore Assault should not have mines or explosives. Demolitions is a support role.
Why aren't players complaining about Assault suits not filling their role properly? Why are they so focused on putting the logi suit in a little box but not other classes as well?
it is almost as if the people who say logis should be weak are not playing logis....but in fact play other classes.
Imagine that. |
ugg reset
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
334
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Rep Tool should be your primary weapon.
Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference.
A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds.
For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better. This is certainly what it seems people want.
I run rep tools when people run armor. I don't run rep tools very often.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players
What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
Why are you concerned about the KDR on the support player?
Read Zdub's post above.
I'm concerned with being successful in PC as an officer of my corp.
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Aquinarius Zoltanus
0uter.Heaven EoN.
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:
Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?
2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
hooc order wrote:I am talking about what the suit can carry. You know the way people keep saying the intent of what CCP meant logis to be.
If logis are only support with weaker health and weaker damage as people keep saying they should be then why should assault be allowed to carry this stuff?
Furthermore Assault should not have mines or explosives. Demolitions is a support role.
Why aren't players complaining about Assault suits not filling their role properly? Why are they so focused on putting the logi suit in a little box but not other classes as well?
it is almost as if the people who say logis should be weak are not playing logis....but in fact play other classes.
Imagine that. Mind pointing me to the assault suit that can carry 2, 3, or 4 equipments?
I seem to have missed those, thanks man, appreciate the help. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?
2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads.
I hope people are paying attention to this.
And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers? |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5422
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players
What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
Why are you concerned about the KDR on the support player? Read Zdub's post above. I'm concerned with being successful in PC as an officer of my corp. Then why did you build your slayer build on the support platform?
Why didn't you build it on an Assault platform, like say, the Assault suit? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3107
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? They don't have all that stuff in good corps. I am talking about what the suit can carry. You know the way people keep saying the intent of what CCP meant logis to be. If logis are only support with weaker health and weaker damage as people keep saying they should be then why should assault be allowed to carry this stuff? Furthermore Assault should not have mines or explosives. Demolitions is a support role. Why aren't players complaining about Assault suits not filling their role properly? Why are they so focused on putting the logi suit in a little box but not other classes as well? it is almost as if the people who say logis should be weak are not playing logis....but in fact play other classes. Imagine that. No ****! People have been telling others how to play since the arcade days... some things never get old. The only difference now is that they can all get on a forum and circlejerk over it.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:30:00 -
[55] - Quote
I'm not a slayer. I explained the role I play in my original post.
I place proto uplinks and proto hives.
I can't play my role in an assault suit. I don't even like running my advanced suit because I'm unable to use my proto equipment.
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Aquinarius Zoltanus
0uter.Heaven EoN.
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?
2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads. I hope people are paying attention to this. And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers?
I see where you're going :) And I agree so I'll play along.
Yes, they are killers because otherwise they wouldn't be able to justify why they deserve a spot in a high stakes PC match. |
The Infected One
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
327
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:32:00 -
[57] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Infected One wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:The Infected One wrote:hooc order wrote:Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap.
Wait a min....
How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks?
If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC. How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams? One for each squad. We don't really have any logi suit assault players in PC, everyone knows their role, and we stick to it as a team. Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
Honestly, as our dedicated Logibros, between 1.0-2.5. Even mine have dropped huge since I started running scout/remotes. I went from a strict assault player with a 7+ KDR, to a mix of assault and scout hovering around 3.0-3.25.
lolKDR in PC. Its about the team, not the individual. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
708
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Logi Stician wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. I think you need to read his assessment again.
Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
695
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:
Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?
2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads. I hope people are paying attention to this. And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers? I see where you're going :) And I agree so I'll play along. Yes, they are killers because otherwise they wouldn't be able to justify why they deserve a spot in a high stakes PC match.
So instead of CCP asking higher level players what works and how they use the equipment they are listening to people that have no idea.
It's sad because so many people are spec'd into the logi medic role and have no idea.
I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. Only 2-3 out of 16 get into PC battles and only MAYBE 10% of dust participates in PC at all.
People should focus on that last sentence and let that soak in.
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5426
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. I severely doubt that.
If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true.
I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics.
You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities.
Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh
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