DUST Search - Logi Suits... What role are they supposed to fill?

All Channels

General Discussions

Logi Suits... What role are they supposed to fill?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 687	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:49:00 - [1] - Quote First off, I'm a Cald logi so I'm not happy at this point. Here is what I do on the battlefield... I carry proto uplinks and nanohives. I'm usually front line so as we attack an objective or fend off attacks while we are defending I'll place a "hub" to provide armor reps and ammo. I'll place uplinks as they are taken out in defence or to provide a point of entry during an assault on an objective. I chose this method after talking with DJINN Pheonix. After playing in some PC matches it was clear that we needed more logis with a weapon in their hand instead of a rep tool. Not just that but many more people are shield tanked than armor tanked. Given the choices and the experiences I've had this was the path that seemed obvious to me. Not flavor of the month, just taking a look at the options available and making a decision based on what I felt would fit my playstyle and be the most effective for my team. If I were a gallente logi I would have certainly taken up a rep tool as I'd probably be posted up in a heavy armor squad. However I do not like the movement penalties that armor comes with. Until recently the nanite injector was useless and there are only certain times in a PC battle where it's advisable to pick players up after they go down. Quality teams in PC are usually going to put the person you picked up back down along with the person that picked them up. MANY corps that I know of advise against using nanite injectors in PC. The rep tool situation I touched on above, but I'll mention it again here. I higher level games having a rep tool in your hand instead of a gun usually means you are soon to be dead along with the person you are repping. Given what I mentioned above can we have a grown up conversation about what a logi is supposed to do?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 687	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:53:00 - [2] - Quote I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine. But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi. While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 687	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:54:00 - [3] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Rep Tool should be your primary weapon. Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference. A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds. For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better. This is certainly what it seems people want.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 687	Posted - 2013.07.23 15:59:00 - [4] - Quote N1ck Comeau wrote: The role of a logi is support, mostly medical support but other kinds as well. Whether your healing a heavy Reviving a teammate or simple placing uplinks all those help the team. I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat. We have an Assault suit for that. Okay, fair enough. With 3-4 equipment slots I'd say it would be silly for a logi to not have an uplink. If I carry proto repping hives why should a person also carry a rep tool? Especially if they only have 3 equipment slots.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 689	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:08:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi. While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question ...... Why do you get to bask in the glory of excelling at two roles when everyone else is stuck with one role? Serious question Well I also bask in the glory of having to skill into more areas and my suits are very expensive. My equipment on my suit is over 65,000 ISK by itself. I'm at 18 mil SP and I'm still not finished skilling into my logi. Hacking is at L2 Scan skills are still at L2 Biotics is only at L4 Engineering is only at L4 along with some other items I had planned on around 4 million additional SP into this role before I starting skilling into a different suit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 689	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:18:00 - [6] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Or simple placing uplinks all those help the team. I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat. We have an Assault suit for that. See now heres where the stupid comes in. This game is made of 16 v 16 battles. In skirmish the mode that counts, there are multiple hot zones, further splitting your 16 man team. This means You'll be running with either 3 other squadmates, 4, or 5. When the hotzones have this few players involved, you can't afford to have a logi not using his gun. If you have a 4v4 or 6v6 hotzone and your logi isnt another gun on the field it becomes 6v5, or 4v3, this is a HUGE difference. If your logi has no combat ability, then you are completely worthless, logi or not. If you are not engaging the enemy, then you are nowhere near being useful, and your spot should be taken by an assault. So many logis out there are garbage and make no difference in battles because they dont engage the enemy, they only try to heal, and their team loses because not enough people are fighting back. You fighting and engaging the enemy is mandatory no matter your role. Yet people say logis shouldnt fight? Ok ret@rd go back to cod where you dont have to think. This is the way it is in high level matches. And that's the bottom line. Most players haven't experienced this yet. And I think it's a problem for everyone going forward. If they nerf the killing ability of logis they simply won't have a place in PC. There is a VAST majority of players in this game that play a logi medic role. Because of our experiences in PC we've asked them to skill into nanohives and uplinks instead of reptools and to forgo the nanite injector. Out of 200 players in our corp it seems that 50% of them are logi medics. As people get antsy about getting into PC battles it's tough because we only field 1 or 2 logi medics in a 16 man team. Try going against Outer Heaven with 3 or 4 guys with a rep tool in their hand. Hell they kicked our ass with only 1 guy trying to keep the heavies alive. They will stomp your ass. They will kill the logi and the heavy with a quickness. It surprises me to see some of the comments from people in corps that I know do not field many logi medics in their PC squads. I can understand wanting to change this, but I don't see evidence of CCP being able to balance properly.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:32:00 - [7] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: It seems pretty straight forward to me. Assault is frontline, the first to catch a bullet and the most likely to go down while breaking through enemy lines. Logi is the second row. Setting up uplinks for reinforcements, supporting fire, keeping assaults alive / watching their backs, and finally mopping up everything that's left when the dust has settled (if it ever does). Both are combat roles by necessity, but it should be clear why each role requires a different focus. If Logis are the better frontline fighters, then that is certainly backwards. If they are better frontline fighters it's because of the person using the suit not because of the suit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:34:00 - [8] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: I see the logistics as being about flexibility. Corporations can certainly define their preferred roles based on their own experience and tactics. The suit frame itself is about being able to develop your own tactics with a reduction in weapon options once on the field. You decide your role unless you work with a team that tells you what to do. But this is not what the community seems to support. There is no choice. The people have spoken and CCP has listened. There is no choice. They need to change the term from Logi to Medic and they need to make the rep tool a required item on every logi suit. But only after they allow me to spec out of the suit.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:39:00 - [9] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: N1ck Comeau wrote: Or simple placing uplinks all those help the team. I honestly don't believe the Logistics suit should be used for any sort of frontline combat. We have an Assault suit for that. See now heres where the stupid comes in. This game is made of 16 v 16 battles. In skirmish the mode that counts, there are multiple hot zones, further splitting your 16 man team. This means You'll be running with either 3 other squadmates, 4, or 5. When the hotzones have this few players involved, you can't afford to have a logi not using his gun. If you have a 4v4 or 6v6 hotzone and your logi isnt another gun on the field it becomes 6v5, or 4v3, this is a HUGE difference. If your logi has no combat ability, then you are completely worthless, logi or not. If you are not engaging the enemy, then you are nowhere near being useful, and your spot should be taken by an assault. So many logis out there are garbage and make no difference in battles because they dont engage the enemy, they only try to heal, and their team loses because not enough people are fighting back. You fighting and engaging the enemy is mandatory no matter your role. Yet people say logis shouldnt fight? Ok ret@rd go back to cod where you dont have to think. This is the way it is in high level matches. And that's the bottom line. Most players haven't experienced this yet. And I think it's a problem for everyone going forward. If they nerf the killing ability of logis they simply won't have a place in PC. There is a VAST majority of players in this game that play a logi medic role. Because of our experiences in PC we've asked them to skill into nanohives and uplinks instead of reptools and to forgo the nanite injector. Out of 200 players in our corp it seems that 50% of them are logi medics. As people get antsy about getting into PC battles it's tough because we only field 1 or 2 logi medics in a 16 man team. Try going against Outer Heaven with 3 or 4 guys with a rep tool in their hand. Hell they kicked our ass with only 1 guy trying to keep the heavies alive. They will stomp your ass. They will kill the logi and the heavy with a quickness. It surprises me to see some of the comments from people in corps that I know do not field many logi medics in their PC squads. I can understand wanting to change this, but I don't see evidence of CCP being able to balance properly. Agreed, I am wanting to spec into the caldar assault so much to not have a nerfed suit, and because of the skills i have specced being suitable, but then i think of role in PC i can fulfill staying as good logi and being very helpful to the team. and im torn, i might just have to see how bad the callogis nerf is be4 i spend any sp....but it looks pretty bad. I can run the same suit basically without a second regulator by fitting a second CPU module. But we don't know what these changes are going forward. Imagine how much isk you'll go though if they make us only use sidearms.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:40:00 - [10] - Quote hooc order wrote: Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap. Wait a min.... How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks? If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? They don't have all that stuff in good corps.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:49:00 - [11] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Wow.... I am just in awe of this thread right now. I came in expecting the usual crap of "OMG Logis do everything tha best!!!11!!", but instead I find some realistic and meaningful discussion of the current situation logis are in. Color me surprised. That said, I agree very much with what THE AMAZING POTHEAD has been saying. Sorry, I forget who said it, but saying "A Logi's primary weapon should be his repair tool" is just ridiculous. We are playing a game where we are fighting to kill one another, and to be worthwhile, a Logi has to help out in that aspect. At the beginning of any fight, when everyone's shields are still up, if you are using your rep tool then you are being useless. As a Logi I go into every fight with my primary out ready to fight. If we win quickly and nobody takes armor damage, then it's damn good that I didn't have my rep tool out. If the fight is even or going badly, then I will likely switch out of my primary weapon and to my rep tool midway through the fight to save the assaults/heavies in my squad. It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost. Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 691	Posted - 2013.07.23 16:56:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: It's good to have the medic options there, but a logi still has to be a fighter first and foremost. See this is where your view seems to be skewed. If you want the medic options to be there, but still be a fighter first and foremost, you go for assault If you want to have fighting options to be there, but still be a medic first and foremost, you go for logistics. But that's like your opinion man. With one equipment slot an assault guy in a well built squad should have either an uplink or a remote explosive. But that's like my opinion.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 693	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:05:00 - [13] - Quote The Infected One wrote: hooc order wrote: Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap. Wait a min.... How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks? If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC. How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:20:00 - [14] - Quote The Infected One wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: The Infected One wrote: hooc order wrote: Logis are assault but get only one weapon and in return are able to carry more crap. Wait a min.... How come the "logis are only support only ever and can't shoot and have no health" crowd are not complaining about Assault and Scouts carrying injectors and revers and nanohives and droplinks? If Logis are supposed to be support what the hell are those scouts and assaults doing with all that support stuff? Saying that you run with support equipment as a logi is all fine and good. I can say that in able to fly, and ride a unicorn that's on fire into battle, but that doesn't make it true. If more logi players actually carried logi equipment, the assaults and scouts (scout with uplinks is working as intended, get in quick and quiet, deploy spawn location, get out quick and quiet) wouldn't have to, and IMO we could all play our classes roles a lot more effectively. Tbh I see more logis playing as assault than I see logis playing logi, or assault/scout playing logi in everything except PC. How many logi medics do you guys use in PC teams? One for each squad. We don't really have any logi suit assault players in PC, everyone knows their role, and we stick to it as a team. Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:21:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Logi Stician wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine. But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi. While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. I think you need to read his assessment again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:23:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Okay so 3-4 max out of 16 players What are those players KDR for a corp as esteemed as Synergy? Why are you concerned about the KDR on the support player? Read Zdub's post above. I'm concerned with being successful in PC as an officer of my corp.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:25:00 - [17] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match? 2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads. I hope people are paying attention to this. And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:30:00 - [18] - Quote I'm not a slayer. I explained the role I play in my original post. I place proto uplinks and proto hives. I can't play my role in an assault suit. I don't even like running my advanced suit because I'm unable to use my proto equipment.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:37:00 - [19] - Quote Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Just to give all the kids an idea of what it's like in a higher tier corp, how many logi medics do you guys field in a PC match? 2-3 I'd say. Never more than one per squad in PC, and we generally run 3 squads. I hope people are paying attention to this. And those 2-3 people you put in there. Are they killers? I see where you're going :) And I agree so I'll play along. Yes, they are killers because otherwise they wouldn't be able to justify why they deserve a spot in a high stakes PC match. So instead of CCP asking higher level players what works and how they use the equipment they are listening to people that have no idea. It's sad because so many people are spec'd into the logi medic role and have no idea. I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. Only 2-3 out of 16 get into PC battles and only MAYBE 10% of dust participates in PC at all. People should focus on that last sentence and let that soak in.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:42:00 - [20] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Logi Stician wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine. But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi. While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. I think you need to read his assessment again. Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities (which is the impression I get from you). Well your impression is incorrect and I've explained the role I play. The role I play is one that makes it's way into PC battles. It's not the role that blueberries yearn for in pub matches. I wanted to try and become a high level player. I'm not elite by any means, but I'm a pretty solid player. I learned the playstyle from some top notch elite players. I've topped 4000 WP in a match. That's tough to do outside of a tank with a defend order. I provide a ton of support. Just not with a rep tool.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 695	Posted - 2013.07.23 17:44:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. I severely doubt that. If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true. I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics. You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities. Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh I'm a recruiting officer. I talk to players all the time. I turn away logis all the time because we have too many. I was actually being conservative with the 50% number.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 698	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:28:00 - [22] - Quote Duck Drahko wrote: Here's a question: If you believe the balancing changes to the Cal Logi suit make it unsuitable for fighting, does that mean the same is true for all other Logi suits? How come nobody is complaining about that then? In all honesty I wish I was spec'd into the Min Logi suit because of it's versatility. I spec'd into Cal Logi because the bonus was too hard to pass up, but I'm not sure why I'm a bad person for doing that. Everybody is pointing their finger and laughing and such. It's kind of strange. What's really strange about the Cal Logi nerf is that it's only directed at those who use it as an assault suit. But it's not going to stop those who use it as an assault suit. It might make them spec further into Electronics and use a CPU mod, but it won't effect them because they likely only had an uplink and perhaps an RE fitted. The nerf is only effecting those who use the Cal Logi as a logi. Obviously the term logi is a point of contention, but this is a point that seems hard to argue in my opinion. I'd think that the CPM could have helped come up with a balance, but there are only a few who actually play the game. Kain being the only only I know of playing it at a high level. To me the logi should have been left alone. The assault player doesn't have to spend nearly as much SP for his/her main role so they could have been branching out into different suits or more weapons before a logi.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 698	Posted - 2013.07.23 19:37:00 - [23] - Quote Phantom Vaxer wrote: Logis are supposed to fill a support role. A multiplier in the squad and team hence the multiple equipment slots. Whether you are healing, dropping uplinks, scanning, restocking, you are to fill a support role. That doesn't mean you can't fight on the frontlines but you're not gonna be on the same level as Assaults. Caldari Logi's were broke...they promoted shield tanking that made them a bullet sponge when Caldari Assaults are squishier. Support roles in games are not meant to tank damage, they are meant to support the team against the other. So since the Logi is supporting the team with healing they should have higher recovery on their own so they don't have to rely on another for healing. This higher recovery is meant to make the Logi role less about tanking and instead being behind frontline-men to support them and able to get back into top condition quick if they do get hit. So now the skills make sense where Caldari Assault suits now get the shield tanking while Caldari Logi suits get higher shield recovery. If they'd nerfed the contact grenades first I think you'd have seen more people gravitate toward flux grenades. People didn't want to give up the cheap kills and instead wanted to complain about those with shield tanks. Switching the bonus would have been plenty. The CPU nerf is stupid.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 698	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:08:00 - [24] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Rep Tool should be your primary weapon. Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference. A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds. For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better. I have to call Bull Pucky on that. Even a Logi Bro needs to kill or drive off the enemy in order to revive a downed comrade. Passivist Logi are responsible for people not wanting to be revived anymore. No ****... but thats what CCP wants to turn logis into. Fine with me... just give me the SP I wasted on the suit back so I can put it into a real suit that wont be irrelevant and for pub non factors that have no hope if going positive ever. I donGÇÖt see any evidence to suggest that CCP donGÇÖt want Logi participating in a fire fight. At the same time that they nerfed Caldari Logi, they also buffed Amarr logi, giving them a sidearm at the Advanced suit. The Caldari logi will still be able to shoot after the nerf, just as other Logi suits do now. Guys, try to remember when interpreting CCPGÇÖs actions that the Caldari Logi suit is not the only Logi suit. The actions CCP took don't address the Calogi being used as an assault suit. It made it harder on those using it as a logi suit. And we don't know yet what other changes they have in store as they are hinting at more awesome news for logis. My problem is with the core belief by a majority of the people on these forums that a logi is supposed to have a rep tool in his hand or that he shouldn't be effective at killing. Perhaps this belief will have merit when the battlefield is opened up to more players, but as it stands you have to be an effective killer in order to participate at a high level (PC).
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 701	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:34:00 - [25] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: First off, I'm a Cald logi so I'm not happy at this point. Here is what I do on the battlefield... I carry proto uplinks and nanohives. I'm usually front line so as we attack an objective or fend off attacks while we are defending I'll place a "hub" to provide armor reps and ammo. I'll place uplinks as they are taken out in defence or to provide a point of entry during an assault on an objective. I chose this method after talking with DJINN Pheonix. After playing in some PC matches it was clear that we needed more logis with a weapon in their hand instead of a rep tool. Not just that but many more people are shield tanked than armor tanked. Given the choices and the experiences I've had this was the path that seemed obvious to me. Not flavor of the month, just taking a look at the options available and making a decision based on what I felt would fit my playstyle and be the most effective for my team. If I were a gallente logi I would have certainly taken up a rep tool as I'd probably be posted up in a heavy armor squad. However I do not like the movement penalties that armor comes with. Until recently the nanite injector was useless and there are only certain times in a PC battle where it's advisable to pick players up after they go down. Quality teams in PC are usually going to put the person you picked up back down along with the person that picked them up. MANY corps that I know of advise against using nanite injectors in PC. The rep tool situation I touched on above, but I'll mention it again here. I higher level games having a rep tool in your hand instead of a gun usually means you are soon to be dead along with the person you are repping. Given what I mentioned above can we have a grown up conversation about what a logi is supposed to do? In DUST University we would call you a Combat Engineer. This is a perfectly acceptable application of the Logistics suit. In DUST University we generally break the use of Logi suits into three categories: - Logi Bro: Uses a Rep tool to keep people alive. Mostly used to support Heavies. - Combat Engineer: Uses Nano Hives to keep the team supplied and/or Drop Uplinks to help your team get back into the fight faster. May use a scanner to provide intel on enemy positions. May fit a remote explosive as well. - Explosives Expert: Uses multiple types of explosives to booby traps objectives and other choke points. This includes the Mad Bomber fit which fills all slots with explosives. Of course there is some crossover, but most logi will identify mostly with one of these categories. These are my three fits Well you need to delete the other three and let the assault guys handle everything. You just need to rep them while they are doing it. Even if you are in a shield heavy squad that doesn't need reps. Just do it anyway.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 703	Posted - 2013.07.23 20:49:00 - [26] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Well you need to delete the other two and let the assault guys handle everything. You just need to rep them while they are doing it. Even if you are in a shield heavy squad that doesn't need reps. Just do it anyway. We're all suffering from playing an incomplete game that lacks even the full set of basics. That doesn't change the fact that CCP has been very clear about their stance of making Logi's be primarily focused on support, and their desire and intent to make good on that vision. You're welcome to complain here in General, or continue to provide feedback in the Feedback section or IRC chat, but at the end of the day, if you wish to focus on slaying while playing as logistics, you're going to find yourself overall less efficient at what you do. Now if you wanted to play a support character, then hey, guess what, you're ahead of the curve. I'm finished talking to you. Please refrain from posting in my thread any longer. I feel like I'm talking to my brother's kids or something.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 703	Posted - 2013.07.23 21:10:00 - [27] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Please refrain from posting in my thread any longer. I feel like I'm talking to my brother's kids or something. I'll post in your thread as often as I feel. Block me little bro. I've just been pointing to CCPs tendencies, explanations, and general desires for the class. You post a thread asking what role the logi should fill, but you don't want discussion; you want to be right no matter what. Logi's are the wonder unit that do it all, and they shouldn't be touched, right? I look forward to bathing in your tears when the class is fixed like CCP has stated they intend to fix it. I do want discussion, but I've stated my playstyle and what I bring to the table. You keep stating that I use the suit as an assault suit which is not the case. Whatever man. We can keep talking. I'm not sure what you and I are going to accomplish going back and forth though.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 703	Posted - 2013.07.23 21:22:00 - [28] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I do want discussion, but I've stated my playstyle and what I bring to the table. You keep stating that I use the suit as an assault suit which is not the case. Whatever man. We can keep talking. I'm not sure what you and I are going to accomplish going back and forth though. He does have a point. What you do sounds like a better fit for the assault save that you would have to choose between the nanohive or uplinks. Being logi and being on the front line needn't be mutually exclusive, but expecting to be the best option to be there isn't reasonably balanced. How is an assault guy fit proto repping hives, proto uplinks, and proto ammo hives? Just curious? How is an assault guy going to drop a 3 second spawn uplink while the other squad members are getting repped and getting ammo while I'm covering them doing so? I can drop two of those proto healing hives and rep an entire squad to full health in seconds. Any guys that went down can be back in the fight in 3 seconds while we get our **** together. Everybody has full health and we are good to go in seconds. The enemy doesn't have as much time to adapt as they normally would. You have to remember that the enemy that pushed your objective dropped a 3 second uplink nearby and is coming at you in a hurry. But I'm going to stop. I'm tired of explaining what should be obvious.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 703	Posted - 2013.07.23 21:29:00 - [29] - Quote Tectonic Fusion wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine. But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi. While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question What's wrong with both? Good question
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 705	Posted - 2013.07.23 22:13:00 - [30] - Quote Promethius Franklin wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: How is an assault guy fit proto repping hives, proto uplinks, and proto ammo hives? Just curious? How is an assault guy going to drop a 3 second spawn uplink while the other squad members are getting repped and getting ammo while I'm covering them doing so? I can drop two of those proto healing hives and rep an entire squad to full health in seconds. Any guys that went down can be back in the fight in 3 seconds while we get our **** together. Everybody has full health and we are good to go in seconds. The enemy doesn't have as much time to adapt as they normally would. You have to remember that the enemy that pushed your objective dropped a 3 second uplink nearby and is coming at you in a hurry. But I'm going to stop. I'm tired of explaining what should be obvious. Ok, so then the equipment is more important than the frontline role? If you want the equipment stay logi by all means. If you value the squad support then do as you have. That's not the feeling one gets from the op, but from this post it seems that way. That said, that is the role of your suit, not the frontline work you mentioned in the op. Do the 2 need to be completely divorced? No, and they aren't, your suit just isn't designed to make you king at it. You had the answer to your question all along apparently. Why was this thread even created? If you take away 53 CPU (that's the impact if skills are considered) then you take away the logi element and are left with only assault. It impacts the players using the suit as an assault suit ZERO.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 705	Posted - 2013.07.23 22:19:00 - [31] - Quote King Kobrah wrote: question: why does logi get a shorter recharge delay than assault? shouldn't it be the opposite? what role is assault supposed to fill, exactly? they're just logis with slower shield delay, slightly faster movement speed, and a lot less slots Don't really know how to respond, but wouldn't it have been smarter for CCP to buff the assault suits here? Then the ONLY people upset would be those that are abusing the logi suits.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 710	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:17:00 - [32] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Zdub Yeah the CPU/PG Decrease might be little too much.Specially the amount. But on the PLUSside, you still got 4 low powered modules to increase it PLUS passive skills. I would have gone with changing the Bonuses and reducing the ''LOW'' slots to 3 (so it had the same amount as the other Logis) Still, whatever they do is fine by me. Im just tired of seeing Proto cal logis overpowering everything in a game and then the players thinking they are actually THAT good,but cant see that they are running around in OP suits.... Sounds biased, and it is. I dont want to run with Cal Logi in order to be able to kill otherr cal logis... And i hate flux nades. The only logi suit that didn't have 12 slots was the Amarr because it has a sidearm. If you are going to speak so matter of factly, you should get your facts straight.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 710	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:35:00 - [33] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: 10 page of pure whining bcuz i can finish 1 in match just by killing 5 + droping nanohive ,uplink,rep and revive, u mad mister i kill all. Como?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:42:00 - [34] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like. Until it happens to you. Then the conversation will be flipped. Thus the screwed up system comment.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.