DUST Search - Logi Suits... What role are they supposed to fill?

John Demonsbane wrote:

I think the OP may be operating under a false assumption here. I highly doubt that a majority of informed/non-trolling posters here feel that any suit needs to be absolutely pigeonholed into any one role. I mean, part of the whole point of making dropsuit fittings so complicated is so that you can customize them how you like. Get readly for a little tl;dr...

You want to be good at killing but still bring an additional aspect to the battlefield? Cool. Don't use your third equipment slot, fill the other two with hives, uplinks, whatever, grab a duvolle and, if you really want to go all-out, get yourself an amarr logi (in a week or two, not now, holy crap) add a proto SMG or flaylock, and use the rest of your CPU/PG for extenders and damage mods. Knock yourself the f- out!

You want to be a pacifist? Perhaps an FPS is not the right game for you, but go for it. Grab a sidearm for self defense, proto equipment all around, speed mods to survive, and tank yourself up with what you got left.

Want to be a more "traditional" logibro? All the better, that's what the suit is designed for! A little of this, a little of that, maybe you need to use a GEK instead of that pretty imperial scrambler or duvolle you had your eyes on so you can fit a little better equipment or shields, but hey we all make sacrifices, right?

Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D.

Irrespective of what it was called, be it assault, logi, salad tosser gk.0, what freaking ever, that suit simply was more powerful than the others and needed to be brought in line with the ones in it's class, bottom line. You may not like it because suddenly your favorite toy doesn't work as well as it used to, no matter what you were using it for, but that is not, I repeat, not the point in this case.

No matter how killing- or healing-oriented your belief system (the correct term in this case because clearly facts are not getting in the way of your opinions) considers a "logistics" player to be, has no bearing on whether or not the suit needed to be adjusted. Considering how heavy-handed CCP has been with the nerf hammer in the past (my poor, poor laser rifle, how dearly I once loved you), this is much less mjolnir than it could have been. You'll live.

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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 11	Posted - 2013.07.24 02:35:00 - [181] - Quote I think the OP may be operating under a false assumption here. I highly doubt that a majority of informed/non-trolling posters here feel that any suit needs to be absolutely pigeonholed into any one role. I mean, part of the whole point of making dropsuit fittings so complicated is so that you can customize them how you like. Get readly for a little tl;dr... You want to be good at killing but still bring an additional aspect to the battlefield? Cool. Don't use your third equipment slot, fill the other two with hives, uplinks, whatever, grab a duvolle and, if you really want to go all-out, get yourself an amarr logi (in a week or two, not now, holy crap) add a proto SMG or flaylock, and use the rest of your CPU/PG for extenders and damage mods. Knock yourself the f- out! You want to be a pacifist? Perhaps an FPS is not the right game for you, but go for it. Grab a sidearm for self defense, proto equipment all around, speed mods to survive, and tank yourself up with what you got left. Want to be a more "traditional" logibro? All the better, that's what the suit is designed for! A little of this, a little of that, maybe you need to use a GEK instead of that pretty imperial scrambler or duvolle you had your eyes on so you can fit a little better equipment or shields, but hey we all make sacrifices, right? Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. Irrespective of what it was called, be it assault, logi, salad tosser gk.0, what freaking ever, that suit simply was more powerful than the others and needed to be brought in line with the ones in it's class, bottom line. You may not like it because suddenly your favorite toy doesn't work as well as it used to, no matter what you were using it for, but that is not, I repeat, not the point in this case. No matter how killing- or healing-oriented your belief system (the correct term in this case because clearly facts are not getting in the way of your opinions) considers a "logistics" player to be, has no bearing on whether or not the suit needed to be adjusted. Considering how heavy-handed CCP has been with the nerf hammer in the past (my poor, poor laser rifle, how dearly I once loved you), this is much less mjolnir than it could have been. You'll live.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1229	Posted - 2013.07.24 03:37:00 - [182] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: At this point, I think the CPU nerf is a 'pay for your sins' nerf intended to offset all that time we were so 'extremely overpowered'. At this point, I'm gonna stop playing until 1.4. At which point we'll see what they have in store, and FF14 will be out. I can decide then if I care to keep playing this game. Given CCPs track record of underwhelming updates, more likely than not I'm just gonna bounce. Me personally dont care if players are going to stop playing just because they dont have their OP suit. Who knows, maybe new players now wont get stomped and start playing the game... So in the end we loose try hards , we gain new player base. Hell, and dont think im 100% biased, im a SCOUT player but my ''assault suit'' is a caldari logi, and im happy with this nerf....CAL LOGI still have enough slots to adapt to almost any situation... So I don't think anyone expected the shield bonus to stay.. sure. But a 50 CPU reduction? What was the point? Seriously.. It just **** all over equipment using cal logis and forces 'logissaults' to bump their enhanced CPU to a complex. I just don't get it. If shield tanking wasn't so much more powerful than armor tanking, Caldari logi would be hands down the worst logi suit for performing logistics. I can only assume it comes with a CPU reduction to nanocirc or something in 1.4... but why not wait until 1.4 to drop the CPU? I dunno... I guess I'll never understand Remnant's overnerfing. btw, 'fixing' cal logis will do nothing for pub stomping... so not sure where that comment comes from.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 67	Posted - 2013.07.24 03:40:00 - [183] - Quote Who are we kidding... 16 vs. 16 there is no frontline.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 218	Posted - 2013.07.24 03:48:00 - [184] - Quote logi: your first job is to provide spawnpoints. your second job is to scan down the enemy. this provides recon to your squad, and is underrated currently. your third job is to heal people between objectives or between engagements. healing a heavy during combat is pretty questionable unless you've got a system that's been proven. your fourth job is to pick people up after you've cleared the field. your (maybe) most important job is to fit your gear slots to work with your squad or team in such a manner as to facilitate victory.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 66	Posted - 2013.07.24 04:20:00 - [185] - Quote This is a pretty well done thread. Kind of surprising. Here are some of my thoughts on the CalLogi adjustment. I don't think the CPU adjustment is going to make or break your fit. It might reduce it temporarily, as you have to drop a tier on two or three items, but it will still be viable. Do you absolutely have to have proto level equipment in all your slots? Maybe have a fit that has proto links, and adv everything else. Or drop to adv weapon? One of the biggest hurdles CCP faces with this game is time. Most FPS games, especially console FPSs, have a very short shelf life. Two years, 3 tops if the studio is slow getting the next iteration out. This genre thrives on change. And also resets. Everyone starts over when the next title is released. Dust isn't going to do that. CCP has to balance many things by following a persistent game type. If you want the best, tightest fit now, with the highest level gear everywhere, how is CCP going to encourage you to stay for 4+ years? They will release new skills, some of those will be fitting skills, and rebalances that you will have to adjust your playstyle to many times. I say wait until the changes happen, and see what you can do with your fit. I doubt it'll change much. As for high level in the PC crowd, don't fret. This game is still enough FPS that if you're good, you'll still be good after the change.
KING CHECKMATE A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy 398	Posted - 2013.07.24 04:41:00 - [186] - Quote @ Zdub Yeah the CPU/PG Decrease might be little too much.Specially the amount. But on the PLUSside, you still got 4 low powered modules to increase it PLUS passive skills. I would have gone with changing the Bonuses and reducing the ''LOW'' slots to 3 (so it had the same amount as the other Logis) Still, whatever they do is fine by me. Im just tired of seeing Proto cal logis overpowering everything in a game and then the players thinking they are actually THAT good,but cant see that they are running around in OP suits.... Sounds biased, and it is. I dont want to run with Cal Logi in order to be able to kill otherr cal logis... And i hate flux nades.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1230	Posted - 2013.07.24 04:49:00 - [187] - Quote Yeah I don't know... I'm trying to work fits where I can. I'll defo be afk farming until I get electronics 5, engineering 5, and core upgrades 5... I guess I'll work out where to go from there, should put me pretty close to 1.4 at that point.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 834	Posted - 2013.07.24 05:22:00 - [188] - Quote Let's face facts here, the calogi was made into a scapegoat.
Promethius Franklin DUST University Ivy League 105	Posted - 2013.07.24 05:23:00 - [189] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Let's face facts here, the calogi was made into a scapegoat. For what?
Cosgar ParagonX 3149	Posted - 2013.07.24 05:31:00 - [190] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Let's face facts here, the calogi was made into a scapegoat. Yeah, let's blame the suit that had the most flexible fitting options and potentially highest buffer that could fill any role better than what the specified role called for. Seriously, the damn thing still has people thinking logi > assault. I've been using Minmatar logi since Chrome back when people said it needed a buff. It hasn't changed much except for the +5HP/s regen, less shields, and the hacking bonus being listed. Now I'm suddenly better than an assault because I traded HP regen for some shields? Dust logic never ceases to amaze me.

howard sanchez DUST University Ivy League 612	Posted - 2013.07.24 05:44:00 - [191] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: I think the OP may be operating under a false assumption here. I highly doubt that a majority of informed/non-trolling posters here feel that any suit needs to be absolutely pigeonholed into any one role. I mean, part of the whole point of making dropsuit fittings so complicated is so that you can customize them how you like. Get readly for a little tl;dr... You want to be good at killing but still bring an additional aspect to the battlefield? Cool. Don't use your third equipment slot, fill the other two with hives, uplinks, whatever, grab a duvolle and, if you really want to go all-out, get yourself an amarr logi (in a week or two, not now, holy crap) add a proto SMG or flaylock, and use the rest of your CPU/PG for extenders and damage mods. Knock yourself the f- out! You want to be a pacifist? Perhaps an FPS is not the right game for you, but go for it. Grab a sidearm for self defense, proto equipment all around, speed mods to survive, and tank yourself up with what you got left. Want to be a more "traditional" logibro? All the better, that's what the suit is designed for! A little of this, a little of that, maybe you need to use a GEK instead of that pretty imperial scrambler or duvolle you had your eyes on so you can fit a little better equipment or shields, but hey we all make sacrifices, right? Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. Irrespective of what it was called, be it assault, logi, salad tosser gk.0, what freaking ever, that suit simply was more powerful than the others and needed to be brought in line with the ones in it's class, bottom line. You may not like it because suddenly your favorite toy doesn't work as well as it used to, no matter what you were using it for, but that is not, I repeat, not the point in this case. No matter how killing- or healing-oriented your belief system (the correct term in this case because clearly facts are not getting in the way of your opinions) considers a "logistics" player to be, has no bearing on whether or not the suit needed to be adjusted. Considering how heavy-handed CCP has been with the nerf hammer in the past (my poor, poor laser rifle, how dearly I once loved you), this is much less mjolnir than it could have been. You'll live. Who does not like this post?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 710	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:17:00 - [192] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Zdub Yeah the CPU/PG Decrease might be little too much.Specially the amount. But on the PLUSside, you still got 4 low powered modules to increase it PLUS passive skills. I would have gone with changing the Bonuses and reducing the ''LOW'' slots to 3 (so it had the same amount as the other Logis) Still, whatever they do is fine by me. Im just tired of seeing Proto cal logis overpowering everything in a game and then the players thinking they are actually THAT good,but cant see that they are running around in OP suits.... Sounds biased, and it is. I dont want to run with Cal Logi in order to be able to kill otherr cal logis... And i hate flux nades. The only logi suit that didn't have 12 slots was the Amarr because it has a sidearm. If you are going to speak so matter of factly, you should get your facts straight.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1231	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:25:00 - [193] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. People just think the current cal logi is more OP than it really is. You can't fit proto everything on a cal logi now, and you certainly won't be able to after 1.3. All the CPU reduction is designed to do.. as far as I can see.. is to functionally remove a low slot. So I guess I just don't understand... if the number of module slots was such a problem.. why make it 5/4 anyways? at this point its now 5/3/3 = 11 instead of the min/gal's 3/5/4 or 4/4/4 = 12. **** if they just wanted to remove the slot... why not leave the CPU where its at, take the low slot, and put in a 4th equipment slot? More than anything... i'd just love to hear some reasoning from remnant behind the cpu reduction. Was it arbitrary and for the lulz? Did he theorycraft a bunch of fits and find he felt 40 CPU needed to be lift to prevent certain combos? I just wanna know why more than anything. I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Ah well... there will definitely be another respec at some point. I'll admit its a little presumptuous of me to demand a respec when they won't give to classes that have it much worse off. So here's to afk farming through all of the inevitable nerfs ccp will release which invalidates millions of hard earned SP! But hey.. at least the game is 'free' right?
Cosgar ParagonX 3150	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:25:00 - [194] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Who does not like this post? I wish I could like it more than once.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:27:00 - [195] - Quote This is a dumb thread. Name another suit in the game where you still have 7 slots left and already have almost 800 ehp? /thread. On chromosome you sacrificed speed for less equips, now you sacrifice cpu and equips for 650 ehp using all shield extenders (after the nerf) seems fair to the poor armor tankers out there and the damned amarr logi.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:29:00 - [196] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. People just think the current cal logi is more OP than it really is. You can't fit proto everything on a cal logi now, and you certainly won't be able to after 1.3. All the CPU reduction is designed to do.. as far as I can see.. is to functionally remove a low slot. So I guess I just don't understand... if the number of module slots was such a problem.. why make it 5/4 anyways? at this point its now 5/3/3 = 11 instead of the min/gal's 3/5/4 or 4/4/4 = 12. **** if they just wanted to remove the slot... why not leave the CPU where its at, take the low slot, and put in a 4th equipment slot? More than anything... i'd just love to hear some reasoning from remnant behind the cpu reduction. Was it arbitrary and for the lulz? Did he theorycraft a bunch of fits and find he felt 40 CPU needed to be lift to prevent certain combos? I just wanna know why more than anything. I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Ah well... there will definitely be another respec at some point. I'll admit its a little presumptuous of me to demand a respec when they won't give to classes that have it much worse off. So here's to afk farming through all of the inevitable nerfs ccp will release which invalidates millions of hard earned SP! But hey.. at least the game is 'free' right? Can any suit fit proto anything? Everyone has fitting problems. Now you just aren't OP.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:31:00 - [197] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Cause it having 9 slots won't be an advantage? armor is pg heavy, /logic.
Faquira Bleuetta 0uter.Heaven EoN. 67	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:32:00 - [198] - Quote 10 page of pure whining bcuz i can finish 1 in match just by killing 5 + droping nanohive ,uplink,rep and revive, u mad mister i kill all.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 710	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:35:00 - [199] - Quote Faquira Bleuetta wrote: 10 page of pure whining bcuz i can finish 1 in match just by killing 5 + droping nanohive ,uplink,rep and revive, u mad mister i kill all. Como?
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:36:00 - [200] - Quote Thor Odinson42 got anything left since I destroyed the fail that was this thread of qq?

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:38:00 - [201] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Cause it having 9 slots won't be an advantage? armor is pg heavy, /logic. In terms of combat capability, after armor is balanced it will probably have a slight advantage still (the differential between CPU lost and CPU gained from an additional mod). Just not sure I can see it being worth losing an equipment slot for it though. Yeah if these were the 1.0 stats... I don't think I would have picked this suit over min's balanced layout.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:39:00 - [202] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: If shield tanking wasn't so much more powerful than armor tanking, Caldari logi would be hands down the worst logi suit for performing logistics. Nah, amarr will always be on the short end of the stick for logi's, and mini's/caldari's will always be the best at tanking/versatility and gallente best at dedicated logi.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:41:00 - [203] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Cause it having 9 slots won't be an advantage? armor is pg heavy, /logic. In terms of combat capability, after armor is balanced it will probably have a slight advantage still (the differential between CPU lost and CPU gained from an additional mod). Just not sure I can see it being worth losing an equipment slot for it though. Yeah if these were the 1.0 stats... I don't think I would have picked this suit over min's balanced layout. It's worth it cause honestly outside of gallente the mini or caldari couldn't run 4 proto logi tools anyway on a pc feasible fit. anyone have a fitting tool?
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:45:00 - [204] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: It's worth it cause honestly outside of gallente the mini or caldari couldn't run 4 proto logi tools anyway. Eh... proto equipment is just too expensive in general. Most of them cost more than proto weapons. ****... I can't even run 3 proto equips now. And thats with all basic low mods sans CPU mod.
Bob Teller Red Star. EoN. 43	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:47:00 - [205] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Rep Tool should be your primary weapon. Then you are supposed to carry proto uplinks, proto nanohives, proto needle, and then the 4th one is up to you based on your personal preference. A true logi should never get a kill in a game, and should always strive to stay 30m+ from the frontline and 80m+ from any reds. For a true logi, the lower your kdr the better. edit: this post was entirely sarcastic. it represents some sort of twisted notion of what assault players think logis should be like. and apparently, what CCP thinks as well. Fine with me, but refund SP, cause thats not the logi we've had for the last 6 months and not the logi that 90% of logis signed up for. You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying?Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:50:00 - [206] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: OP's Dirty Secret wrote: It's worth it cause honestly outside of gallente the mini or caldari couldn't run 4 proto logi tools anyway. Eh... proto equipment is just too expensive in general. Most of them cost more than proto weapons. ****... I can't even run 3 proto equips now. And thats with all basic low mods sans CPU mod. Honestly, after the respec true logi's will run a complex cpu chip, a complex pg, a complex reg, and a complex ferroscale. and you should still be just fine on the proto tools then. 700 ehp at 4.7 move speed and 3 proto tools?!? Worthless qq'ing is all i see.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:56:00 - [207] - Quote Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:56:00 - [208] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:58:00 - [209] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: Honestly, after the respec true logi's will run a complex cpu chip, a complex pg, a complex reg, and a complex ferroscale. and you should still be just fine on the proto tools then. 700 ehp at 4.7 move speed and 3 proto tools?!? Worthless qq'ing is all i see. No way you'll be able to fit all of that. That's like ...140-150 PG lol.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 06:59:00 - [210] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like. ignoring the cal logi changes for second... the point still stands.



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