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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
707
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Logi Stician wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi
I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
708
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Logi Stician wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:I believe I can run the same suit I have now with 2x Complex CPU upgrades by dropping one of my regulators which is fine.
But my frustrations stem from this notion that I'm not a logi if I don't have a rep tool or that I can go 30-1 in a match as a logi.
While going 30-1 I can still accumulate more WP from support than killing. What is wrong with that? Serious question
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi. logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad. EDIT: logibro instead of logi I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. I think you need to read his assessment again.
Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
709
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Logi Stician wrote:
here is the disconnect: logi= logistics. a wide range of support options. just cause yer a logi does not in fact relegate you to medic. you could run two different RE, a scanner, hive and still be a logi.
logibro=medic or thats what it's come to mean for me. all the restorative gear with thoughts of objective garrison (defending a point) fat boy support or general zerg support of a close moving squad.
EDIT: logibro instead of logi
I agree with your assessment, you can be a logi and not be acting like one of the hunting dogs chasing down the reddots. IDK why people are so obsessed with thinking that they NEED to be just another flavor of assault. I think you need to read his assessment again. Not my fault you took a different interpretation away from his post. I agree with his assessment, apparently you do as well. However, I get the impression that he is talking about actually playing as support with the wide-range of support options rather than abusing the support options by using them (fully or otherwise) to enhance assault capabilities (which is the impression I get from you). Well your impression is incorrect and I've explained the role I play. The role I play is one that makes it's way into PC battles. It's not the role that blueberries yearn for in pub matches. I wanted to try and become a high level player. I'm not elite by any means, but I'm a pretty solid player. I learned the playstyle from some top notch elite players. I've topped 4000 WP in a match. That's tough to do outside of a tank with a defend order. I provide a ton of support. Just not with a rep tool.
I disagree, my impression is spot-on, it's just that you've been blinded by the "aggressive-run-and-gun-zerg-rush-we-are-major-league-gaming-athletes" playstyle that dominates PC from what I can gather.
Those "top-notch, elite players" have corrupted your understanding of what it is to be support. They have you believing that "Assault with a side order of support" is in fact the entree Support dish when it isn't.
I'm willing to bet that your 4000 WP games were when there was a defend order on a squadmate who was camping multiple nanos of yours along with the rest of your squad, which is essentially the same as the Frago'd tank when all of you are running calogi.
It's ok, we're not here to judge you, we're trying to give you the True Logi version of an Intervention.
We're doing this because we care, would you like a hug? |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
710
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Sleepy Shadow wrote:Why was the second equipment slot removed from the assault suit? Was it "too logi" for an assault to carry two equipments? I want it back, assaults should get two slots so we too could carry nanohives/uplinks/remotes and so on. Logis want to act as super assaults? Sure, but give us assaults a break here.
The issue I have with logis being better assaults than assaults is that there's no reason to even have "assault" if it's outperformed by another suit, while that suit is designed with something else in mind.
Tell me what is the role of the assault, if there's nothing wrong with logis outperforming them? Are we just your meatshields? What is my incentive of picking assault over logi? Excuse me while I use you as an example of the stupidity plauging 90% of the forums. Logis are NOT better assaults than assault suits. Logis have more tanking ability, and as a result better survivability on the frontline. Guess why? ASSAULT SUITS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE ENEMY. THEY ARE FRONTLINE SUITS AS A SECONDARY ROLE. heres the important part. ASSAULT SUITS ARE MEANT TO FLANK. FLANK. FLANK. Jesus i cannot stress this enough. This is the reason they have better strafe,sprint, stamina, stamina regen and shield regen, they are meant for flanking, guerrilla warfare, and battle versatility. They excel first and foremost at flanking but perform other roles like frontlining ( a heavies job) too without being as effective. Theres a reason the best players in the game use assaults suits, they flank constantly, using guerrilla warfare, and kill more than anyone by doing it, maintain 7+ KDRs. Jesus christ if you think a logi is a better assault, you're just garbage, the defining characteristic is speed, and use of your speed.
When did Assault get reinterpreted to mean Scout? |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
710
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aquinarius Zoltanus wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
I disagree, my impression is spot-on, it's just that you've been blinded by the "aggressive-run-and-gun-zerg-rush-we-are-major-league-gaming-athletes" playstyle that dominates PC from what I can gather.
Those "top-notch, elite players" have corrupted your understanding of what it is to be support. They have you believing that "Assault with a side order of support" is in fact the entree Support dish when it isn't.
I'm willing to bet that your 4000 WP games were when there was a defend order on a squadmate who was camping multiple nanos of yours along with the rest of your squad, which is essentially the same as the Frago'd tank when all of you are running calogi.
It's ok, we're not here to judge you, we're trying to give you the True Logi version of an Intervention.
We're doing this because we care, would you like a hug?
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to side with Thor and say that you're the one who's wrong. The zerg type play style you describe is what's dominant in PC right now because that is just what works best in Dust atm. People seem to have this mystical vision of the perfect logi that never picks up a gun but is extremely effective merely by boosting the effectiveness of the teammates. What I'm saying is that this is an illusion, and currently doesn't really have a place at high levels of competitive play. I don't even know if this 'pacifist logi' that people seem to want is even what CCP intends. The reality is that a logi still has to be another gun-toting member of the team.
I have not now, nor ever, stated that Logis should be pacifists. Logis do need to be able to kill, though not nearly with the efficiency of Assaults. Logis should worry more about focusing fire on reddots that are trying to kill them or their teammates. Outside of that, Logis should be more opportunistic with their killing as killing isn't their primary intended role, Support is (laying equipment to fortify blue objectives, repair/resupply/revive etc).
Logi == Support Logi != Pacifist |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
716
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 18:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:It is worth pointing out that when CCP work out how to give bonuses to Equipment, it will probably be the Gallente Logi that gets the Remote Rep bonus. Caldari are Shield tankers so Caldari Logi will likely get a bonus to Nano Hives or Drop Uplinks. I am hoping for a Remote Explosives bonus for Minmitar.
I would hope that Caldari would get bonuses to Infantry Shield Transporters, but that could just be me. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
717
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Well you need to delete the other two and let the assault guys handle everything.
You just need to rep them while they are doing it. Even if you are in a shield heavy squad that doesn't need reps. Just do it anyway. Ok, this is beyond getting hyperbolic. Ironically most of the people that I see actually saying a logi's hand should always have a rep tool are the ones saying it sarcastically. No one expects you to never defend yourself, but not being as efficient as assault at frontline work is totally reasonable. Funny thing about this post as well is that all 3 of the fits have the logi drawing on benefits of their equipment, not the primary weapon slots.
Are you saying that Logis could lose the Light Weapon Slot for a Sidearm slot?
/trollface
Seriously though, I don't think it is a bad idea, I've been running that set up since early Chromosome. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
720
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 21:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote: How is an assault guy fit proto repping hives, proto uplinks, and proto ammo hives?
Just curious?
How is an assault guy going to drop a 3 second spawn uplink while the other squad members are getting repped and getting ammo while I'm covering them doing so?
I can drop two of those proto healing hives and rep an entire squad to full health in seconds. Any guys that went down can be back in the fight in 3 seconds while we get our **** together. Everybody has full health and we are good to go in seconds.
The enemy doesn't have as much time to adapt as they normally would. You have to remember that the enemy that pushed your objective dropped a 3 second uplink nearby and is coming at you in a hurry.
But I'm going to stop. I'm tired of explaining what should be obvious.
Ok, so then the equipment is more important than the frontline role? If you want the equipment stay logi by all means. If you value the squad support then do as you have. That's not the feeling one gets from the op, but from this post it seems that way. That said, that is the role of your suit, not the frontline work you mentioned in the op. Do the 2 need to be completely divorced? No, and they aren't, your suit just isn't designed to make you king at it. You had the answer to your question all along apparently. Why was this thread even created?
I'm really starting to get a "Logis don't NEED a Light Weapon Slot" vibe from this thread.
Swapping it for a Sidearm Slot (or giving them a Logi Weapon Slot selection of Sidearm, LR, MD, PC, SL) doesn't remove anything necessary for using Equipment and it will help the Logi conform more to the "Support" role rather than this bastardized "Assport" role that seems to have developed. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
720
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 21:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote: I'm really starting to get a "Logis don't NEED a Light Weapon Slot" vibe from this thread.
Swapping it for a Sidearm Slot (or giving them a Logi Weapon Slot selection of Sidearm, LR, MD, PC, SL) doesn't remove anything necessary for using Equipment and it will help the Logi conform more to the "Support" role rather than this bastardized "Assport" role that seems to have developed.
That's definitely not how I mean to come across. In my opinion support includes fire support, especially in the case of trying to clear hostile stragglers for a safe friendly revive, etc. I'm not here to promote pigeonholing anyone, just to point out that not being the all around best is a non issue.
I wasn't saying that you were, this whole thread is giving me that vibe. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
720
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 21:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kinky Burrito wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote: How is an assault guy fit proto repping hives, proto uplinks, and proto ammo hives?
Just curious?
How is an assault guy going to drop a 3 second spawn uplink while the other squad members are getting repped and getting ammo while I'm covering them doing so?
I can drop two of those proto healing hives and rep an entire squad to full health in seconds. Any guys that went down can be back in the fight in 3 seconds while we get our **** together. Everybody has full health and we are good to go in seconds.
The enemy doesn't have as much time to adapt as they normally would. You have to remember that the enemy that pushed your objective dropped a 3 second uplink nearby and is coming at you in a hurry.
But I'm going to stop. I'm tired of explaining what should be obvious.
Ok, so then the equipment is more important than the frontline role? If you want the equipment stay logi by all means. If you value the squad support then do as you have. That's not the feeling one gets from the op, but from this post it seems that way. That said, that is the role of your suit, not the frontline work you mentioned in the op. Do the 2 need to be completely divorced? No, and they aren't, your suit just isn't designed to make you king at it. You had the answer to your question all along apparently. Why was this thread even created? I'm really starting to get a "Logis don't NEED a Light Weapon Slot" vibe from this thread. Swapping it for a Sidearm Slot (or giving them a Logi Weapon Slot selection of Sidearm, LR, MD, PC, SL) doesn't remove anything necessary for using Equipment and it will help the Logi conform more to the "Support" role rather than this bastardized "Assport" role that seems to have developed. I'm not sure you really understand what the "support" role means once you are playing teams in full Proto gear. Walking behind someone with a rep tool is derp mode. If you removed light weapons from logis, you would see a lot less logis on PC teams.
You obviously TL;DR'd most of this thread.
I rarely pull out my Reps Leash, proto gear or no, Sidearms are still a viable option for killing with (as are the Laser Rifle, Mass Driver, Plasma Cannon and Swarm Launcher). I've never stated that Reps Leashes were the only thing that Logis could hold.
Support needs to be obviously Support, not Frontline Assault with the bonus of extra Equipment. |
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
721
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 01:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spectre-M wrote:XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:if anything logis should be on the frontlines healing and killing
its the damn assaults role to cover the logibro's ass while hes out there healing and repping
but the silly assault suits believe its the other way around
silly COD players Look up the the terms for both 'Logistics' and 'Assault' then tell me whom should be covering whom. I dont play COD and I can understand the difference.
If you couldn't tell, he's being facetious. |
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