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Logi Suits... What role are they supposed to fill?

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OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:04:00 - [211] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really ** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like. ignoring the cal logi changes for second... the point still stands. YOu came here to qq about the cal logi and I pointed out the flaws in your argument. YOur point stands, outside of the cal logi. Even then an argument could be made about how they offered a 2nd respec when they did ** on stuff like the lazer and heavies and tanks, and they fixed heavies in a hurry, and are leaving in the glitch for reppers to at least make armor tanks viable till we get an overhaul. They are nerfing the flaylock and contact nades, so maybe I just overall disagree.
Phantom Vaxer The Generals EoN. 48	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:04:00 - [212] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Phantom Vaxer wrote: Logis are supposed to fill a support role. A multiplier in the squad and team hence the multiple equipment slots. Whether you are healing, dropping uplinks, scanning, restocking, you are to fill a support role. That doesn't mean you can't fight on the frontlines but you're not gonna be on the same level as Assaults. Caldari Logi's were broke...they promoted shield tanking that made them a bullet sponge when Caldari Assaults are squishier. Support roles in games are not meant to tank damage, they are meant to support the team against the other. So since the Logi is supporting the team with healing they should have higher recovery on their own so they don't have to rely on another for healing. This higher recovery is meant to make the Logi role less about tanking and instead being behind frontline-men to support them and able to get back into top condition quick if they do get hit. So now the skills make sense where Caldari Assault suits now get the shield tanking while Caldari Logi suits get higher shield recovery. If they'd nerfed the contact grenades first I think you'd have seen more people gravitate toward flux grenades. People didn't want to give up the cheap kills and instead wanted to complain about those with shield tanks. Switching the bonus would have been plenty. The CPU nerf is stupid. I will have to agree about that the CPU nerf seems a tad too much. The skill swap would have been fine IMO.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:07:00 - [213] - Quote Phantom Vaxer wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Phantom Vaxer wrote: Logis are supposed to fill a support role. A multiplier in the squad and team hence the multiple equipment slots. Whether you are healing, dropping uplinks, scanning, restocking, you are to fill a support role. That doesn't mean you can't fight on the frontlines but you're not gonna be on the same level as Assaults. Caldari Logi's were broke...they promoted shield tanking that made them a bullet sponge when Caldari Assaults are squishier. Support roles in games are not meant to tank damage, they are meant to support the team against the other. So since the Logi is supporting the team with healing they should have higher recovery on their own so they don't have to rely on another for healing. This higher recovery is meant to make the Logi role less about tanking and instead being behind frontline-men to support them and able to get back into top condition quick if they do get hit. So now the skills make sense where Caldari Assault suits now get the shield tanking while Caldari Logi suits get higher shield recovery. If they'd nerfed the contact grenades first I think you'd have seen more people gravitate toward flux grenades. People didn't want to give up the cheap kills and instead wanted to complain about those with shield tanks. Switching the bonus would have been plenty. The CPU nerf is stupid. I will have to agree about that the CPU nerf seems a tad too much. The skill swap would have been fine IMO. Disagree for previously posted reasons. If you can point out why they are faulty please feel free.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 835	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:08:00 - [214] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Well, no, we DON'T all make sacrifices with the current CalLogi suit. This is what the OP is missing here. The problem is not that the logi gods will strike us all down if we don't use a logistics suit as the good lord intended. The problem was that the cal logi suit could do anything and everything most other suits could, better in many cases. That, my friend is the definition of the only word that matters here, which is (say it with me): U-N-B-A-L-A-N-C-E-D. People just think the current cal logi is more OP than it really is. You can't fit proto everything on a cal logi now, and you certainly won't be able to after 1.3. All the CPU reduction is designed to do.. as far as I can see.. is to functionally remove a low slot. So I guess I just don't understand... if the number of module slots was such a problem.. why make it 5/4 anyways? at this point its now 5/3/3 = 11 instead of the min/gal's 3/5/4 or 4/4/4 = 12. ** if they just wanted to remove the slot... why not leave the CPU where its at, take the low slot, and put in a 4th equipment slot? More than anything... i'd just love to hear some reasoning from remnant behind the cpu reduction. Was it arbitrary and for the lulz? Did he theorycraft a bunch of fits and find he felt 40 CPU needed to be lift to prevent certain combos? I just wanna know why more than anything. I dunno.. it'll stay balanced vs. gal/min simply because shields are so much better than armor... but when/if they make armor competitive.. it will defo be overshadowed by the other two. Ah well... there will definitely be another respec at some point. I'll admit its a little presumptuous of me to demand a respec when they won't give to classes that have it much worse off. So here's to afk farming through all of the inevitable nerfs ccp will release which invalidates millions of hard earned SP! But hey.. at least the game is 'free' right? My calogi is actually 5/1/3, as 3 out of 4 of my low slots are already dedicated to enhanced CPU and PG enhancers. And I can only one use one piece of proto equipment, the other two are adv/std. My core skills are mostly all level 4 or 5 too. But agree, people think it is so OP because of the diverse nature of the suit. But in essence each diverse "role" that it plays is sub-par when comparing to the real thing (whether that be an assault, heavy, scout, etc). With exception of the shield bonus, we are just a diverse logi that emphasizes on shields. I think the general hate on shield tankers and the caldari assault from previous builds, made us the perfect target for player rage and QQ. I dunno about the rest of the calogi race, but I die just as quickly as anybody else even when shield tanking as much as possible, especially when players know how to play (flux anybody?). I've recently been experimenting with an alt that had 4.6 unallocated million SP, so I chose to go with minmatar assault and the MD. Now while the MD is much different than what i am used to, and is certainly not the killer the AR is, the minmatar suit is AMAZING!** I am only at adv too, but if I had my AR I would be able to do much better than I can even in my proto shield tanked calogi suit. The movement speed and sprint speed is oh so glorious! Calogi movement and sprint really sucks, and IMO is it's biggest problem I have with the suit (armor really sucks, but shield bonus made it acceptable). If I got a respec for the suit cost of the calogi, I am pretty sure I would go into Minmatar assault, sure it only has one equipment slot, but it still has 5 high and has 2 low, which is pretty nice, it also has a built in 1 HP/s armor rep, so that is nice and similar to the calogi as we don't have to run reppers.. not to mention it has a sidearm!! Plus of all the assault races, it has the highest CPU/PG aside from the Amarr assault... but amarr assault has terrible specs/slots and movement/sprint IMO, so I wouldn't even consider it even if it had double the CPU/PG.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:14:00 - [215] - Quote Yep... people don't believe how big of difference that change in move speed makes. but yeah... PC was a big wake up call for me. Move speed and sidearms are king in 1v1 battles. I learned my mistake... I sucked it up and played support instead. But at this point, its just time to wait out the respec and get into an assault build. Logis are only gonna get weaker and assaults are only going to get stronger.. I can already see it.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:21:00 - [216] - Quote I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:22:00 - [217] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Yep... people don't believe how big of difference that change in move speed makes. but yeah... PC was a big wake up call for me. Move speed and sidearms are king in 1v1 battles. I learned my mistake... I sucked it up and played support instead. But at this point, its just time to wait out the respec and get into an assault build. Logis are only gonna get weaker and assaults are only going to get stronger.. I can already see it. 150(+) less tank than most assaults and slower for some extra equips and you give up the sidearm?...i have to agree.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:26:00 - [218] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you Just gonna have to wait it out. Once they fix scouts in 1.8, should be good to go again for shotguns. Just need to wait until February for it though.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 35	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:28:00 - [219] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you Just gonna have to wait it out. Once they fix scouts in 1.8, should be good to go again for shotguns. Just need to wait until February for it though. [Insert Planetside 2 Bomber Post]
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:36:00 - [220] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you Just gonna have to wait it out. Once they fix scouts in 1.8, should be good to go again for shotguns. Just need to wait until February for it though. I'd just AFK farm to get Minmatar suit but oh wait just because it says what it does today doesn't mean it will do that tomorrow!! Thanks CCP! EPIC FAIL! Please learn to make console games faster, thanks.

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:40:00 - [221] - Quote Xero The Mishima wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you Just gonna have to wait it out. Once they fix scouts in 1.8, should be good to go again for shotguns. Just need to wait until February for it though. I'd just AFK farm to get Minmatar suit but oh wait just because it says what it does today doesn't mean it will do that tomorrow!! Thanks CCP! EPIC FAIL! Please learn to make console games faster, thanks. Yup... Nothing you can really do but wait. This game should be confidently playable in about a years time. Until then, assume 50% of your sp will be wasted some something thats gonna get nerfed.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:44:00 - [222] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Xero The Mishima wrote: I am all for balance. -50 CPU is NOT balance that is straight OVERKILL. That's nearly knocking off a CShield Extender.... Why give us 5 slots if we can't even fit the stuff? you say run CPU chips but a successful shot gunner must run Biotics which also eats up CPU and PG. No way you can run CPU chip PG upgrade biotics shield extenders weapons grenades let alone equipment. Laugh all you want it's OVERKILL. I will still do better than you Just gonna have to wait it out. Once they fix scouts in 1.8, should be good to go again for shotguns. Just need to wait until February for it though. I'd just AFK farm to get Minmatar suit but oh wait just because it says what it does today doesn't mean it will do that tomorrow!! Thanks CCP! EPIC FAIL! Please learn to make console games faster, thanks. Yup... Nothing you can really do but wait. This game should be confidently playable in about a years time. Until then, assume 50% of your sp will be wasted some something thats gonna get nerfed. CCP must be really confident. I mean there's PS2,BF4,KZ4,COD Ghost, those are just the shooters I can think of off the top of my head. Not really sure GTAV can be considered a shooter but the multiplay looks a little better polished off from last year.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1232	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:48:00 - [223] - Quote Can't imagine they care. They've got eve to keep them going for years I'm sure. Plus... This is a 'free' game after all.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 257	Posted - 2013.07.24 07:53:00 - [224] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Can't imagine they care. They've got eve to keep them going for years I'm sure. Plus... This is a 'free' game after all. Ya I had a conversation with a guy on Twitch and he told me months ago he thinks they are using us as testers and plan on it failing PS3 than move it to PC and let them have the polished finished product.
Phantom Vaxer The Generals EoN. 48	Posted - 2013.07.24 08:11:00 - [225] - Quote IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. I severely doubt that. If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true. I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics. You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities. Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh To be honest this nerf isn't hurting the guys who use the suit as an assault. They'll just take of two of their equipments off and call it a day. Its hurting the real logis. Shield extenders take a butt load of pg and now we have to worry about pg and cpu usage. A logi that can't soak up damage and defend his self at the same time is a useless logi. Once a good squad figures out who the logi on your team is its hunting season. They'll clip that heavies life line in a sec. I wish some of you play as a logi before you start criticizing our methods. I play Logi and support roles aren't meant to soak up damage. Maybe if you stopped playing as a AssLogi then maybe you'll live without the tanking. Seriously Logis can fight but they aren't meant to soak up damage maybe they are meant to you know...support the team without running in the fray!
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 258	Posted - 2013.07.24 08:14:00 - [226] - Quote Phantom Vaxer wrote: IRON PATRIOT 1 wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: I'd wager that close to 50% of dust is logi medic. I severely doubt that. If anything, 50% of dust is Cal Logi wonderbread, in which case may the nerf bat strike hard and true. I strongly, strongly doubt your imaginary numbers are anywhere near close. Want to be primary combat with a side of support? Play Assault. Want to be primarily support with a side of combat? Play logistics. You all can enjoy your banter, CCP has already expressed their desire to adjust this and lower the logistics combat efficiency in favor of increasing their support abilities. Have fun killer bees, the end is nigh To be honest this nerf isn't hurting the guys who use the suit as an assault. They'll just take of two of their equipments off and call it a day. Its hurting the real logis. Shield extenders take a butt load of pg and now we have to worry about pg and cpu usage. A logi that can't soak up damage and defend his self at the same time is a useless logi. Once a good squad figures out who the logi on your team is its hunting season. They'll clip that heavies life line in a sec. I wish some of you play as a logi before you start criticizing our methods. I play Logi and support roles aren't meant to soak up damage. Maybe if you stopped playing as a AssLogi then maybe you'll live without the tanking. Seriously Logis can fight but they aren't meant to soak up damage maybe they are meant to you know...support the team without running in the fray! I beg to differ sir, the Logi role should be able to soak up damage as they are the guy following heavies and running out and picking clones back up.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 711	Posted - 2013.07.24 12:42:00 - [227] - Quote OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like. Until it happens to you. Then the conversation will be flipped. Thus the screwed up system comment.
OP's Dirty Secret MoIon Labe. 39	Posted - 2013.07.27 08:40:00 - [228] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: OP's Dirty Secret wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Bob Teller wrote: You will still be able to do all that after the nerf,i dont know why you are crying? Skilling up in the most op suit of the game is a risk that you took and now you wont get all those easy kills.Asking for a sp refund was funny tho You completely missed the point of that whole post. but it doesn't really matter. CCP doesn't give a ** anyways. They'll happily let you spec into whatever and then run it into the ground and be like.. "oh did we just waste 3 weeks of you grinding sp? Well there's always aurum gear to catch up!" Its just a really **** system. I can deal with the changes fine... but this SP system is really bad. Really really bad. Into the ground. lol balance it more like. Until it happens to you. Then the conversation will be flipped. Thus the screwed up system comment. maybe if it wasn't so obviously coming and respecs were given I'd agree. But everyone and their dog had a thread up about cal logi's. Mark of 22 posted a video going like 33-4 on the first day of uprising, the fact you chose to skill into an OP suit that's now being balanced and not massively overnerfed...lol.


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