DUST Search - Tank Petition

Sir Meode wrote:

Void Echo wrote:

Sir Meode wrote:

The Attorney General wrote:

That is an interesting list of complaints.

Even more interesting is the list of signees.

Some of you are better than this, and should shake the pessimism from your heads.

The rest of you don't surprise me.

To the points:

1) Content will get here when it does. You know CCP sucks at getting stuff released, don't cry about it.

2) Forge gun range is fine, swarms could maybe come down 20 or 30 m.

3) Armor resists are fine.

4) You forgot 4.

5) How often do you guys lose tanks? I make a healthy profit taking and I don't redline tank. Anybody who pops my tank has to work for it. As long as I don't make a mistake I live. Welcome to new Eden.

6) The shield v armor balance needs to be worked on with Blam, not handled in a shameful petition.

I agree with this guy.

You are all asking for the wrong things to balance the game.

so wanting advanced and prototype havs would unbalance a game where infantry has advanced and prototype av weapons available?

There will always be an imbalance between vehicles and infantry, A HAV will slaughter infantry in a few seconds. For Infantry it takes alot longer so putting proto HAV and modules will only make HAV survive a little better, they will still farm infantry.

Now dont get me wrong some AV is quite powerfull and does to HAV what HAV do to them and yes some AV is easier to use than others. (lolnades and lolswarms)

Swarms do to armour HAV what forge do to shield HAV, they hammer them if they catch them off guard.

Vehicles should be balanced between other vehicles not between AV. If you balance it with AV it defeats the point of AV. What would be the point of using AV if killing a vehicle is easier with another vehicle? you would just call in another vehicle to take them out. Vehicles are also anti Infantry as well as AV so as a tankers you have an all round role and are very versitile.

CCP need to look at the balance between vehicle variants and their modules, THEN look at introducing proto variants. Which is what they should have done with all weapon types. But such a big update wont be for a long time 6 - 12 months so whining to them to bring in proto vehicles aint helping.

This petition wont change any thing, all CCP will see is a list of whiners and will be less likely to listen to your input in the future.

Like i said you have your priorities in the wrong order, your all being greedy.

HTFU and be patient

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 649	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:14:00 - [91] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: daishi mk03 wrote: Would it be okay if Mad&Gunn became the prototype tanks and we add two weaker / cheaper Std and Adv versions of both? No because proto AV can easily solo them in 2-3 shots If you don't have resists or reps then sure. But that's your fault for not using your modules. Even with modules it can still be 3 shot Only diff is FG require aim so they can miss but when it hits its instant and hard lolswarms never miss even when you behind cover your only defense is activate everything, pray to god and gtfo and hope they do hit something other than you or that he is that far away the travel time for the missiles gives you enough time to rep some hp back or that they time out
Brjann InnRee WarRavens League of Infamy 2	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:23:00 - [92] - Quote I run maddy tanks, I approve this message
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 725	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:28:00 - [93] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Sir Meode wrote: The Attorney General wrote: That is an interesting list of complaints. Even more interesting is the list of signees. Some of you are better than this, and should shake the pessimism from your heads. The rest of you don't surprise me. To the points: 1) Content will get here when it does. You know CCP sucks at getting stuff released, don't cry about it. 2) Forge gun range is fine, swarms could maybe come down 20 or 30 m. 3) Armor resists are fine. 4) You forgot 4. 5) How often do you guys lose tanks? I make a healthy profit taking and I don't redline tank. Anybody who pops my tank has to work for it. As long as I don't make a mistake I live. Welcome to new Eden. 6) The shield v armor balance needs to be worked on with Blam, not handled in a shameful petition. I agree with this guy. You are all asking for the wrong things to balance the game. so wanting advanced and prototype havs would unbalance a game where infantry has advanced and prototype av weapons available? There will always be an imbalance between vehicles and infantry, A HAV will slaughter infantry in a few seconds. For Infantry it takes alot longer so putting proto HAV and modules will only make HAV survive a little better, they will still farm infantry. Now dont get me wrong some AV is quite powerfull and does to HAV what HAV do to them and yes some AV is easier to use than others. (lolnades and lolswarms) Swarms do to armour HAV what forge do to shield HAV, they hammer them if they catch them off guard. Vehicles should be balanced between other vehicles not between AV. If you balance it with AV it defeats the point of AV. What would be the point of using AV if killing a vehicle is easier with another vehicle? you would just call in another vehicle to take them out. Vehicles are also anti Infantry as well as AV so as a tankers you have an all round role and are very versitile. CCP need to look at the balance between vehicle variants and their modules, THEN look at introducing proto variants. Which is what they should have done with all weapon types. But such a big update wont be for a long time 6 - 12 months so whining to them to bring in proto vehicles aint helping. This petition wont change any thing, all CCP will see is a list of whiners and will be less likely to listen to your input in the future. Like i said you have your priorities in the wrong order, your all being greedy. HTFU and be patient
daishi mk03 Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:36:00 - [94] - Quote So let me rephrase my question: Nowadays (and now I would like to use more realistic numbers) 3-4 Proto Forgegunners / Swarmers can reliably kill my Madruger even with 2x hardners and repairs running. So, how many AV Infantry you want to be able to kill / survive to? Four AV infantry is 25% of the enemy team.
Exergonic TeamPlayers EoN. 173	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:47:00 - [95] - Quote Sir Meode wrote: Void Echo wrote: Sir Meode wrote: The Attorney General wrote: That is an interesting list of complaints. Even more interesting is the list of signees. Some of you are better than this, and should shake the pessimism from your heads. The rest of you don't surprise me. To the points: 1) Content will get here when it does. You know CCP sucks at getting stuff released, don't cry about it. 2) Forge gun range is fine, swarms could maybe come down 20 or 30 m. 3) Armor resists are fine. 4) You forgot 4. 5) How often do you guys lose tanks? I make a healthy profit taking and I don't redline tank. Anybody who pops my tank has to work for it. As long as I don't make a mistake I live. Welcome to new Eden. 6) The shield v armor balance needs to be worked on with Blam, not handled in a shameful petition. I agree with this guy. You are all asking for the wrong things to balance the game. so wanting advanced and prototype havs would unbalance a game where infantry has advanced and prototype av weapons available? There will always be an imbalance between vehicles and infantry, A HAV will slaughter infantry in a few seconds. For Infantry it takes alot longer so putting proto HAV and modules will only make HAV survive a little better, they will still farm infantry. Now dont get me wrong some AV is quite powerfull and does to HAV what HAV do to them and yes some AV is easier to use than others. (lolnades and lolswarms) Swarms do to armour HAV what forge do to shield HAV, they hammer them if they catch them off guard. Vehicles should be balanced between other vehicles not between AV. If you balance it with AV it defeats the point of AV. What would be the point of using AV if killing a vehicle is easier with another vehicle? you would just call in another vehicle to take them out. Vehicles are also anti Infantry as well as AV so as a tankers you have an all round role and are very versitile. CCP need to look at the balance between vehicle variants and their modules, THEN look at introducing proto variants. Which is what they should have done with all weapon types. But such a big update wont be for a long time 6 - 12 months so whining to them to bring in proto vehicles aint helping. This petition wont change any thing, all CCP will see is a list of whiners and will be less likely to listen to your input in the future. Like i said you have your priorities in the wrong order, your all being greedy. HTFU and be patient I agree with some of what you say... I don't think they need to touch AV Its fine and where it needs to be (Maybe take 40m off the range of swarms) Tanks are not where they need to be... Ever since they were superpowers in Chrom they have been beat with the nerf bat down to a pool of bloody pulp... Mostly with them taking away our marauder class tank and giving us lolenforcers A tank should be something that you have to plan around... It should be feared... But now all you need is a homebody who can get up high and rain down h*ll Or... If CCPs point is to make tanks that fluffy then the price needs to be brought down by atleast 1/3rd Thats just my 2 cents
Exergonic TeamPlayers EoN. 173	Posted - 2013.07.12 13:50:00 - [96] - Quote daishi mk03 wrote: So let me rephrase my question: Nowadays (and now I would like to use more realistic numbers) 3-4 Proto Forgegunners / Swarmers can reliably kill my Madruger even with me retreating, 2x hardners and repairs running. So, how many AV Infantry you want to be able to kill / survive to? Four AV infantry is 25% of the enemy team. 1 for Std, 2 for Adv, and 3 for Proto would make me a happy duck
Ninjanomyx One Who Bears Fangs At GOD 94	Posted - 2013.07.12 14:43:00 - [97] - Quote Duh......signed. I'd prefer them to be significantly less expensive. A MLT w/o Fittings = Fitted Proto Dropsuit.....this is no bueno. And when we get ADV & PRO.....oh God.....just aweful. Saggaris/Surya were essentially ADV disguised as PRO (Black-Ops were "PRO") & cost 1.5 Mil BASE.....so a Fully Fit PRO could run upwards of 10 Mil Base??? (If 6x Price Trend continues....assuming not more since ADV to PRO usually entails a higher multiplier) And OMFG.....ENF STD = 1.5 BASE, wrf will PRO be.....a friggin' EVE Spaceship in cost??? It sickens me to know the "Value" of something that only .50% of the entire Playerbase can use effectively (Let alone Efficiently.....) is trending further towards IMPOSSIBLE to Profit. And when that Blue gets in.....forget about it, better off Redlining yourself to Assisted Suicide the lot of ya rather than CARRY the Squatter Scrub to FREE ISK. Let us have BOTH Driver Seat Lock (Unlocks upon Owner Death) & Eject Button (Built-In FREE Module) so we can toss the Squatter Scrubs @ an Objective or Redline-Dump them for Spite (Karma agrees.....they deserve it). Heck....let us eliminate the 2 Small Turrets to save CPU/PG, further disincentive for the Squatter Scrubs to sit in, more Fitting for us, Win-Win. You don't force Dropsuits to equip a Sidearm so WTF??? Too many factors make Vehicle Spec the least desirable Role ever in a Video Game. Seriously.....an ISK/SP Sink where a "Teammate" can literally devalue & ruin your Gameplay.....& increase the Risk of Loss??? FML....
We are 138 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 105	Posted - 2013.07.12 14:50:00 - [98] - Quote I too put my name on the list. I am but a lowly gunner but I would like a chance to do just that instead of staring mournfully at the smoldering wreckage that use to be a nice tank. At very least let us know what update we can expect to see new HAV's/skills/stuff&things
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 105	Posted - 2013.07.12 14:54:00 - [99] - Quote Public matches vehicle que reach I am frustrated that I can not bring me Madruger on battle 2min. after match start, because everyone ordered free militia LAV, and we run out of vehicle slots. I want to see vehicle que slots being separated on they type, so on each battle our team can bring for example: 3 HAV, 3 DS, 6 LAV and thanks to that HAV pilots will have bigger chances to not see "vehicle que rech" information. Passengers should be able to see vehicle fit We are heading in that direction - at some point in future we will be able to see our detailed kill-mails(with fit that was on vehicle, how many dmg did he tank, how long fight last etc.). I want to give information about vehicle to passengers that they just entered so they can act in it accordingly to fit that this vehicle have. For example: if it's speed tanking DS, without dmg mod, it should give some information to passengers to bailout as soon they reach point to capture. I think that gunner should be able to clearly tell what type turret he handles before he kill someone with it(it's sound logical). Passive Heat Sink In my previous posts I asked CCP to add some kind of sound information for gunners telling that pilot just activate Heat Sink, or other module that have impact on how Small Turrets works, because right now just pilot itself see that and gunners usually overheat turrets right before pilot activates HS. Now I think it will be cool to see modules with separate activation trigger. If gunner A want to kill something, and he need longer period of time to do so, he can activate his Heat Sink whenever he want , and this will not affect gunner B or HAV pilot itself(they use same module, but with separate trigger, cooldown and all other module attribute) How to deploy this vehicle? We are doomed to the Bolas pilot imagination, for some reason sometimes he have bad day(the soup was too salty) and on that day he deploy all our vehicle backwards to battle center, to expose HAV weak point - why? It would be wonderful if information about "which way we looked" while ordering HAV have the meaning for Bolas pilot, so he can deploy front of the vehicle in that direction. He have plenty of time to do so, he can approach deploying zone from different direction or have vehicle attach in different way. Thats all for now.
Pombe Geek Red Star. EoN. 78	Posted - 2013.07.12 16:25:00 - [100] - Quote Tanks are OP. Let's make them more OP.

Andra Syra Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 16:40:00 - [101] - Quote While I'll add a more constructive comment once I get some time to sit down and write a proper post, for now - SIGNED. +1. Whatever. Tanks, and vehicles in general, need a buff.
Gary Togeris DETHDEALERS The Shadow Eclipse 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 16:42:00 - [102] - Quote signed
Crimson Judgment ROGUE SPADES EoN. 54	Posted - 2013.07.12 16:54:00 - [103] - Quote i don't like it when people tell tanks to HTFU it reminds me how pathetic my hardeners are but don't worry i can still HTFU but only for 10 seconds at a time every 30 seconds
Bendaiii Schrodinger Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 18:39:00 - [104] - Quote You can count me in. I use a gunnlogi and would absolutely love to see this petition go through...
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 36	Posted - 2013.07.12 19:34:00 - [105] - Quote show some support everyone either sign the petition or voice your opinion
Medic 1879 Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION 638	Posted - 2013.07.12 19:36:00 - [106] - Quote Add my alt Robotic Tortoise.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 346	Posted - 2013.07.12 19:37:00 - [107] - Quote Void Echo wrote: so wanting advanced and prototype havs would unbalance a game where infantry has advanced and prototype av weapons available? There is a big difference between wanting something, and demanding that it be done immediately. No one knows where Blam went, or who is leading the vehicle section. Trying to make these types of gestures just makes people look bad. If the vehicle team is without a leader, it might be a LONG time before we see any changes. I hate to say it, but everyone needs to sac up and deal with that reality. Do you not think that heavies want their racial variants? Same goes for the light frames. DS pilots need more help than any tankers right now, but yet here you guys are trying to get more for the tankers. Did no one even read the post from Blam back when uprising came out regarding the speed change? It is a racial trait that the Gallente have better propulsion. Is it good for balance? I personally don't think so, but that is a discussion we need to have with the devs, not presented as a page of crying. Honestly, the thread where Exmaple and I were having a back and forth was far more productive than this laundry list of complaints, most of which are just the bawls of children who want to be able to run up into a horde of enemy and slay them all without backup. I feel for the guys who have specced into Caldari tanks expecting to get an AT capable monster that can shrug off expolsive damage all day. But instead of presenting a list of demands, how about we have a rational discussion about the weaknesses and present arguments and most importantly, potential solutions that are practical and would not unbalance things. Anyone who wants an 8 low slot Gallente tank is bad and should feel bad about asking for something that would be so blatantly OP, regardless of price. At some point in time, there will be transfers from EvE, and then ISK won't matter to certain factions, and what will happen then? Certain corps have a rep for pubstomping already, imagine if you gave them a trillion ISK and said go have some fun kids. Could shield tanks use better regen and active hardeners that are worth something? Of course, but that is a totally different discussion from this thread, which is a lot of bad tankers feeling sorry for themselves and demanding all sorts of stuff from a dev house that is notoriously bad at being punctual. The OP tanks of pre Uprising are gone. Let them go, you won't get them back. Instead lets all put our heads together and think about ways we can restore parity, or more clearly defined roles for the vehicles we do have while we wait and see what the pilots suits bring us. We know they are coming, and if it takes until 1.4, so be it. Patience is a virtue most tankers should have by now. Lets see how they change things before we go all mental asking for things we don't need because some tankers just can't hack it. Lastly, I want to say this one thing , so that you guys can understand where I am really coming from: Choosing to be a tanker is putting a massive target on your back, and if you are anything other than terrible the enemy team must counter you. The faster they do this, the better for them. No tank should survive a co-ordinated squad seeking to take it down. Especially in PC, where you can expect nothing but proto AV, and proper tactics. If you cannot deal with being a primary target, don't tank. If you cannot understand that as soon as you bring in your tank you become a focal point for the enemy team, don't tank. You can be winning a match handily and the enemy just might send a couple of LAV's packed with AV troops to come after just you. If you can't accept that fact, then maybe infantry is where you should be. This is not directed at you Void, as I know you know how to tank, but rather for the new guys who are getting kicked around and wondering why it is happening. I shouldn't have to write these types of posts for people who call themselves tankers.
Alpha 443-6732 Not Guilty EoN. 13	Posted - 2013.07.12 20:56:00 - [108] - Quote Signing for myself and bear90211; he doesn't have a computer atm and asked if someone would sign for him.
richiesutie 2 Seraphim Auxiliaries CRONOS. 120	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:00:00 - [109] - Quote I concur.
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 36	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:03:00 - [110] - Quote The Attorney General your obviously just a troll it doesn't take a squad to destroy a tank me single handedly can destroy and harrass a 1.5 mill dollar tank with just a swarm launcher or with a forge up on the roof. Yea we all know tanks have a target painted on them much like a proto setinel but i rarely ever have a well cordinated av attack squad against my tank it's just want 60k ballsy forge gun up on a roof or a swarm in a logi lav

ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 845	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:03:00 - [111] - Quote while i support the general idea, i do not think armor HAVs need a buff, just re-balancing so yea add my name there. oh and rendering on rails.. im not going to reply to any post on here or replies to this one.
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 36	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:07:00 - [112] - Quote good work everyone we've amassed over 50 signatures so far keep up the good work :)
MetalWolf-Cell ROGUE SPADES EoN. 3	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:13:00 - [113] - Quote +1 to this from a full - time tanker I will sign this as well as these are really good ideas that should be implemented
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 36	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:15:00 - [114] - Quote MetalWolf-Cell wrote: +1 to this from a full - time tanker I will sign this as well as these are really good ideas that should be implemented Thanks wolf :)
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 0	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:22:00 - [115] - Quote Sagaris
TITANIC Xangore Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 70	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:29:00 - [116] - Quote TakeCover OrDie wrote: So far the supporters of the list are numbering over 50: Tank Gorillarape Die Quickly I Keel You TakeCoverOrDie FIghter4All Barbosa07z Void Echo CharCharOdell TheLegend345 Killer-12 Vethosis Viktor Viktrizi Tai karl Oso Tiburon GodHands9 Exergonic gboh8 Dark Deviser NINJAPIRATEROBOTZOMBIE Cy Clone1 Racro 01 Arifitsan Code Slucid Xender17 Tank Creno Shield Creno BatKing Deltor Cormacks modified Griefr Sgt ButtScratch Cucch Commander Nix Vulken Crimson Judgement Patoman Radient Xocoyl Zaraoul bear90211 Don Savage2013 DickMason Andrew Sheafer BobThe843CakeMan Godin The Killer pegasis prime Dizzy Rocket marksmn Aleksander Black CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP Takahir Kashuken LudiKure ninda Brjann Innree Ninjanomyx We Are 138 Sylwester Dziewiecki Pombe Greek Andra Syra Gary Togeris Bendaiii Schrodinger Robotic Tortoise Alpha 443-6732 ladwar MetaWolf-cell Add Titanica Xangore to the list! I would add, change up the controls for the tank. there is no reason I should have to slow down just because I want to make a slight turn to the right. I really like the LAV controls as they were changed in the recent build, why not setup something similar for tankers. Then we wouldn't have to worry so much about lodsing momentum that then takes precious time to get going again.
Covert Clay Red Star. EoN. 51	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:30:00 - [117] - Quote You still haven't added my name o the list :(
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 44	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:32:00 - [118] - Quote Covert Clay wrote: You still haven't added my name o the list :( IT'S CAUSE NO ONE LIKES YOU! XD just kidding their you go :)
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 44	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:35:00 - [119] - Quote ATTENTION CEOS OR DIRECTORS, WE NEED YOUR HELP! IF YOU'RE TIRED OF YOUR TANKERS IN P/C GETTING DESTROYED ALMOST INSTANTLY, PLEASE SEND YOUR CORP OR ALLIANCE A MESSAGE SAYING TO SIGN AND COMMENT ON THIS THREAD. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOUR A TANK OR A NON-TANK, WE ALL NEED TO WORK TOGETHER AND WE NEED EVERYONE'S HELP!
TakeCover OrDie Not Guilty EoN. 49	Posted - 2013.07.12 21:38:00 - [120] - Quote #1 Posted: 2013.07.12 21:16 \| Report Like 2 I created an alt a few days ago and decided to spec into Gallente HAVs. I transfer 5 million isk from my main to get started. At first I thought tanking was a piece of cake (I was farming kills at the academy), then reality set in after I got int a real match where people could actually kill me. I didn't have a problem with being blown up because I am new at it . I had a problem with not being about to turn a profit. The price of tanks is super high. I now see why tankers complain about being blown up. If you get blown up 2 times, that's a 1 million Isk loss. People earn about 240,000 per game which means you need to play 4 games to make it up. I never new how much I was costing tankers when I blew up their tanks. This experience has made me feel sorry for tankers. I absolutely don't support nerfing AV (I'm a forge gunner), but CCP should lower the price of vehicles. This would help both AV players and tankers. AV players will have more targets to take out, and tankers will be able to turn a profit. My fit for anyone interested was: 80GJ Compressed Blaster 20GJ Scattered Blaster x2 Militia Active Heat Sink Militia Powergrid Expansion Unit x3 Heavy IG-L Polarized Armor Regenerator 180mm Reinforced Steel Plates. Some tips on how best to fit my tank would be appreciated. This is a quote from another player but yea, i don't 100% agree on not nerfing forges a little bit but as you can see, even the av feel our pain :(



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