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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
13
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Posted - 2013.07.12 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Signing for myself and bear90211; he doesn't have a computer atm and asked if someone would sign for him. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
13
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Posted - 2013.07.13 10:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Reducing the price is fine, but I don't agree with anything else. Tanks shouldn't be a one man army. they are meant to be destroyed like anything else in the game. I still see 2-3 tanks every public match, so that tells me they can't be that underpowered. Decent tanks are usually number one on the end of match leader board.
My suggestions:
lower price
limit range of rail tanks to stop sniping from across the map
stop the unlimited ammo and make them resupply at supply depots - then they'll stop destroying them constantly since they need them as much as anyone else
A tank is not a one man army, trust me. It can't maneuver for **** and is a huge target. It doesn't even have the defense to back up its slow acceleration. Someone who has specced into AV properly can literally 3 shot a madrugar with a protoswarm. What you are seeing is a bunch of idiots who don't know how to counter tanks/ignore them, get killed by them, rinse and repeat.
However, the balance of a standard tank against standard AV is good. Against advanced AV, thinks get a little bit messy, but manageable. Against proto AV, it isnt even a challenge for the AVer, regardless of whether they use a forgegun or a swarm launcher.
Basically what we are asking for are higher end tanks that can be fielded in a PC battle without just simply being a distraction. Where a vehicle should truly be feared, and not so easily destroyed by a single handheld weapon. Maybe once we get custom installations that can be built full AV, those pesky AVers who still want to dominate tanks will spec into a true, dedicated and proper way of combating tanks (custom installations), not simply an adaption used for supporting your fellow footsoldiers (forge gun and swarm launcher). |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
13
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Posted - 2013.07.13 10:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Also, where the KITTEN is CCP Blam!? |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
13
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
BUMP |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.14 01:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
They aren't a one man army now, but they were before. And most tankers want that again.
I'm AV. Prototype swarms, level 5 proficiency, 2 complex damage modifiers. I even have a prototype logi suit that can equip 5 complex damage modifiers, but despite the claims in this thread, I've tested extensively and it's barely any stronger than 2, so it's not worth it.
So yes, with several million sp invested, I can 3 hit some madrugers. Many take 6+ hits or more if they use reppers. If I didn't combine AV nades, swarms, and help from others, they would never go down. Majority of players are these "idiots" (your words, not mine), so if I play solo against your new buffed tanks, I guess I'm expected to just accept dieing repeatedly and losing.
Despite all my investment, I'm still one-hitted by tanks who shoot the ground near me.
Firstly, I said the proto swarm launcher can 3 shot a tank, as in I've witnessed it and experienced it multiple times. If he catches you with your reps available, and you have cover nearby, you would make a mad dash for said cover, rep, attempt to continue what you were doing before, get harassed by an infinite amount of swarm launcher rounds (2 advanced nanohives will last you an entire match, look who also has unlimited ammo!) that take no effort or mental input from the user, no punishment for missing, just spam spam spam, and on top of that, these volleys do about 2k damage to my armor while I run about 40% armor resists.
So what if it takes 6+ swarm launcher rounds to take out a tank? The shots are usually spread out over time, because you have probably pinned down the tank (or even more than 1 easily, lol), rendering him useless as one person, with no actual skill or large sp/isk investment involved
Secondly, don't know where you are spending your SP because any good swarm launcher fit can be made with less than 2 mil sp (including dropsuits, modules, etc), anything more is inefficient for the SP cost and bloats the data. This compared to a tankers minimum SP cost of about 6mil, large isk costs, etc just goes to show the imbalance. Where tankers must work harder to be competitive, in comparison.
Lastly, if you are actually getting hit by a railgun as an AVer, you seriously need to rethink your strategies. Dropships can take you places where tanks cant reach you but you can shoot at them. LAVs can easily be used to ambush a tanker. On my AV alt character with proto swarm launchers, I simply fly to the highest point of the map, lay down a nanohive and establish full map control from all vehicles, just because I know how to hold the trigger of a weapon down for 2 seconds in the general direction of my target and then release the trigger.
That being said, I don't have that much of a problem with forgeguns, as they at least involve aiming and leading their targets. Although it does need a little bit of tweaking in general, because the ishukone forge becomes a great infantry slaying tool and vehicle slaying tool. Just a tad strong at the moment, nothing gamebreaking.
On a more positive note, I just want to say I don't want anything AV related nerfed. I want swarms to get their missile physics and behavior reworked, forge guns to stay pretty much how they are and AV nades to get a rework (less raw damage, possibly a strong slowing effect to counter speedy LAVs and other upcoming vehicles). What I do want to see is proper advanced and proto tanks, against advanced and proto AV.
TL;DR bring us advanced and proto tanks, swarms need missile behaviour reworked to be easier to counter, forge guns stay how they are for the most part, AV nades need a rework but not a nerf. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.14 01:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
ALSO, people who damage vehicles with AV weapons should get bonus points based on how much damage they do, with a limit that varies between vehicle class.
E.G. 50 bonus WP for each 1000 dmg dealt to a standard tank with a cap of 300 bonus WP.
This means if they do all the damage to the tank and someone nabs the last hit, he/she who nabbed said vehicle will, at the most (fully loaded tank), be earning equal warpoints to the person who did all the work taking the tank down. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:(2 advanced nanohives will last you an entire match, look who also has unlimited ammo!) that take no effort or mental input from the user, no punishment for missing, just spam spam spam, and on top of that, these volleys do about 2k damage to my armor while I run about 40% armor resists.
that's an interesting concept of unlimited ammo. by that logic, tanks will still have unlimited ammo if they have to resupply, so it shouldn't affect you. I've never seen a tank that wasn't spam, spam, spamming with no punishment for missing. Tanks do 3k+ damage to my lav in the span of a few seconds, much faster than swarms. So if I don't have the element of surprise, or good cover, there's little chance of surviving the encounter. Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Secondly, don't know where you are spending your SP because any good swarm launcher fit can be made with less than 2 mil sp (including dropsuits, modules, etc), anything more is inefficient for the SP cost and bloats the data. This compared to a tankers minimum SP cost of about 6mil, large isk costs, etc just goes to show the imbalance. Where tankers must work harder to be competitive, in comparison.
then allow me to enlighten you. Level 3 weapony 174k Level 3 light weapon 174k Level 5 swarm launcher 621k Level 5 Handheld weapon upgrades 621k Level 5 Swarm proficiency 1.554 mil Level 5 AV grenades 1.243 mil That's just shy of 4.4mil. but wait, I don't have a suit yet. We need those when we're not in a tank, walking around with a swarm launcher and people are shooting as us. Throw on another 2 mil for your choice of suits. Sidearm would be nice so I'm not defenseless when the other 95% of your team attacks me. And those advance nanohives you think we all have cost sp too. You want me to use my Dropship and my LAV to help me beat you? well those cost SP too unless you want me to be OHK'd. Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Lastly, if you are actually getting hit by a railgun as an AVer, you seriously need to rethink your strategies.
Are you going to claim railguns can't snipe infantry? wow, ok. Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
On my AV alt character with proto swarm launchers, I simply fly to the highest point of the map, lay down a nanohive and establish full map control from all vehicles, just because I know how to hold the trigger of a weapon down for 2 seconds in the general direction of my target and then release the trigger.
I feel this is a glitch that needs to be fixed. separate issue. Similar issues apply to snipers, forge guns, even Tanks. I think I'm pretty good at what I do. Maybe not the best, but I hold my own. It's not as easy as tankers claim, unless you're sitting on the towers where nobody can reach you.
On the topic of ammo, nanohives can be wherever you need them, while supply depos cannot, and sometimes unreachable even.
On the topic of SP requirement, I believe I said bare minimum to run an effective AV role, you have gone beyond that with the build you have given me an almost completed suit. If we wanted to go by the standard you were using, then a tanker would need around 8 mil to max out his standard tanks, but as I had said before, this still isnt enough to effectively combat high tier AV (still possible to adapt, but we are here to balance the game). In the foreseeable future, it may cost around 10-12mil SP to field an effective ADV tank (estimate), in addition to the massively increased isk prices as well.
When I said you need to rethink your strategies, I had meant that as an AV specialist, you should always be looking for the highest/most exploitable vantage point on the map. This is one of the things that make the swarm launcher so powerful. It makes it almost inescapable, as the swarm rockets would fly to your targets at such an angle that cover would be useless if you were to shoot at ground targets from all the way up there. On top of this, the swarm launcher does not suffer from hit detection/lag because it locks onto a target, meaning that you will be hitting tankers, even if you are in blaster range of us, while we cannot effectively retaliate and attempt pull out of the situation, or have to depend on luck to remove AV threats.
Lastly, I don't doubt your skill as we serve the same corporation. I just want to see tanking and AV looked at from an objective point of view. I want handheld AV vs tank to be fun and balanced. I want actual dedicated custom AV installations to wreck our **** if we make mistakes because that's what they are... dedicated and immobile installations. Handheld AV even in RL was never meant to dominate tanks, it was merely meant as an adaption/countermeasure to allow infantry to retaliate against armored vehicles. Vehicles are effective at fighting vehicles simply because they can field a bigger gun than an infantryman could ever dream of holding, and we should retain that logic. As AV on foot you can fit places that tanks simply can't reach you at/hit you and be a nuisance.
In the end, there is more to balancing then just stats like damage. People fail to realize the nature of each different class, their downsides, like size, mobility, counters, etc. People wanting to balance tanks and handheld AV should first ask themselves, "why were tanks made to begin with?," and start from there.
On top of this, people tell us to HTFU. Of course we are capable of HTFU, what we are complaining about is balance issues in a broken game, while at the same time, in pursuit of what is truly logical, fair, balanced and strengthens the diversity in this game, for both AV users and vehicle operators alike.
These are just my thoughts, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Thanks for taking the time to read the petition, especially to those that contributed feedback so far. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
14
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Posted - 2013.07.14 04:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Purpleness wrote:You shouldn't ask for an av nerf or a tank buff when you don't have proto tanks.
What would really be nice would be having a temporary tank buff to make tanks more relevant in PC, then removing that buff when the higher tiered tanks come out. I think I speak for many when I say that we desperately need a change soon, and proto tanks dont seem to be on the roadmap atm.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:With this petition for tanks, there also needs to be a like-minded consideration for dropships as well. While there haven't been petitions, it's obvious that the main conscientious is that there needs to be a nearly simultaneous improvement to not only tanks, but a buff to dropship HP as well, in the respective armor/shield classes. Because if there is only an improvement made to tanks, it will put dropships in the worst situation ever, and with more and more pilots starting to emerge (I'm seeing more and more users in the sky with me flying advanced dropships), it's imapritive we not leave these fragile, flying pieces of paper un-worked upon.
Totally agree with that. More HP for dropships is a good idea, but I would have more acceleration and overall agility to all dropships before I would have more HP. Or, simply a defense value that reflects the clunky and slow feeling the dropships have right now (simple HP and resist buff).
All though most importantly, getting WP options should be the top priority for dropships. From there, everything else should fall into place, with a little tweaking. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.07.14 18:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Harpija wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:What is balance to a tanker? How many people should it take to counter one person driving a tank?
if you're going to require 3-4 people to take a tank down, it should require 3-4 people to operate it. That's the only balance that makes sense. I know you guys get hit by multiple people at once, but that's part of the game. As infantry you constantly get hit by 2+ people, and usually die in those situations. The only problem is your cost, and that needs better balance. This guy knows nothing about tanking... My alt's .02 ISK  You got ripped off. that post isn't worth 0.02 ISK. So answer the question, for balance sake, how many people should it require to take down a solo tank?
3 AVers of an even gear tier to take it down. The balancing factor of the tank is how big of a target it is and its lack of agility, making it easy to team up against as AV.
This, combined with the huge sp/isk sink.
If we balance tanks for pubs where no one wants to work together, the pubs will never adapt and begin working together. If we balance tanks for PC where we typically have a 3 man group on AV duty, then blueberries will adapt, teamwork will improve, etc.
BUT, I say for sure, AVers absolutely need to get points based on who did damage to the vehicle, so AVers can have fun fighting more powerful tanks AND get a decent paycheck to boot.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.07.14 19:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:it has to be balanced toward pub matches since that's what 99% of the matches are. Or just ban tanks from pub matches.
Absolutely not. If you have the ability to field your proto gear and stomp, then I want the ability to do the same with a vehicle. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
25
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Posted - 2013.07.14 19:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Absolutely not. If you have the ability to field your proto gear and stomp, then I want the ability to do the same with a vehicle.
Thank you. that's what I've been waiting to hear. Tankers want to stomp. You won't be happy until you top all the leaderboards. You already have the highest kills, the most war points, now you want 0 deaths too. You cant compare to proto infantry - getting run over, gang raped by an entire squad, or blown up riding in someone else's vehicle. easy deaths no matter what your gear.
What you just pulled there is called a strawman arguement. We don't want to be pubstomping kings. We just want to be as effective at our job as everyone else is at theirs.
Why do infantrymen get to top all the leaderboards, but not vehicle users? |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
27
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Posted - 2013.07.14 20:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
What you just pulled there is called a strawman arguement. We don't want to be pubstomping kings. We just want to be as effective at our job as everyone else is at theirs.
Why do infantrymen get to top all the leaderboards, but not vehicle users?
Don't get me wrong, it's fun. I remember riding around with Exmaple Core, laughing at people trying to beat his tank. Unstoppable, dominating the leaderboard. Good times. Throw a defend order on him, use a small turret with one hand while eating a burrito with the other - and rake in massive points. orbitals left and right. I don't blame you for wanting that again. I guess it's human nature. Good luck with your petition. For the record - 3 vs 1 is not balance.
How condescending of you. Maybe we should just turn all vehicles into dropsuits so we can have a sick 1v1 420 quickscope match! Why have teamwork right guys? We should water down gameplay so much that diversity is thrown out of the window!
Thinking like this is why this game is devolving more and more into just another infantry only arena shooter. Vehicles are seriously a joke at their current state in any serious competitive playing environment. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.14 22:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
I'm sorry if I seem condescending. You know as well as I do that there is no teamwork in pub matches. Making a claim that "there's supposed to be," doesn't make it happen. You can't get people to squad up, let alone cooperate. Why should AVers have to use teamwork when tankers dont?
Take the top 10% of tankers, and average out how many tanks they lose a match. My guess is it's somewhere between 0 and 1, probably closer to 0. If CCP actually listens to you guys and buffs tanks while nerfing everything that can oppose them, the top tankers will be impossible to kill.
PS: I don't really know what the average tank loss is, I can only guess from the few great tankers that I know.
Apology accepted. I can say that in the average pub match, I will lose a tank about .33 times (once every 3 matches). But that is excluding the times I am against decent AV, where I can lose up to 2 tanks in a single match, costing me 2 million isk total.
The reason why tankers don't often die, is because if they do, there is a massive punishment. What frustrates me is that handheld/portable AV being as strong as it is, makes this punishment almost impossible to avoid.
Also, if there was any confusion before about what I mean by handheld AV, I mean the AV weapons that are held in the hand by a footsoldier, not who are being handheld. That's all I have for now. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.14 23:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote: Why should AVers have to use teamwork when tankers dont?
To equalize the effort put in on both sides, i.e. a tanker has to put in a lot of effort to combat a single proto swarmlauncher, while the swarmlauncher either strafes it off and is impossible to hit due to bad hit detection, or is unreachable.
You ignore that currently when we have 3 standard swarm launchers pounding on a tank, it is an even fight with even effort both ways. We just want to bring that up to the proto level with proto tanks, so AVers don't have such an easy time as they do now.
If you want to keep your homing swarms and av nades of death that are incredibly easy to use, at least balance it around its ease of use. What is so important to me is the balance of input from both sides, so neither side has it easy or difficult when even tiers are present.
Also, going to say this again:
"I want handheld AV vs tank to be fun and balanced. I want actual dedicated custom AV installations to wreck our **** if we make mistakes because that's what they are... dedicated and immobile installations. Handheld AV even in RL was never meant to dominate tanks, it was merely meant as an adaption/countermeasure to allow infantry to retaliate against armored vehicles. Vehicles are effective at fighting vehicles simply because they can field a bigger gun than an infantryman could ever dream of holding, and we should retain that logic. As AV on foot you can fit places that tanks simply can't reach you at/hit you and be a nuisance."
What I mean by this, is that you WILL most likely see AV that will be able to wreck a tanks **** no problem 1v1, whether it is proto or not. Just not handheld/portable AV like what we focus our arguements on right now. So you will not be doomed to be the slaves of proto tanks you want to solo, there will be more to come. I promise. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:05:00 -
[16] - Quote
bump for life |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.15 19:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:What the ****? You comment is wrong on every level. Right now for me it is like this:
One proto AV won't kill me, he dies instantly to my railgun.
Two proto AV force me to retreat at least, if I **** up I die.
Three proto AV: Okay, fk, fk, fk
Four proto:gg
Why isn't this fine?
Because thats not how it works now, unless you are redline sniping. Really don't know where you are getting those numbers, as well.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.15 19:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:General John Ripper wrote:I want to sign but I also want my name to be in bold like all the cool guys at the top. Or just be like Charlotte and get all your alts to sign.
Honestly I would just shut up before making a further fool of yourself, you're looking more like a fan of S & M than tanking. Along with all the drama and fallacies thrown into your arguements, and your inexperience with tanking (2 months... LOL).
If you are so good at tanking, why don't I see you in PC dominating other tankers left and right? Why do you think you can insult us because you think we should adapt to something that is clearly broken? Why aren't we telling everyone to adapt to flaylocks? |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.15 20:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:
You must have me confused with someone who has something to prove.
I came out on top of the best of the Imps in PC ringing for STB.
Since they were the best in the game, and pretty much all retired afterwards, there is no real challenge left. But if your bosses want me to do your job for you, they can mail me and pay my fee.
Or if you feel like throwing away 30 mill you can drop me a mail and respectfully ask for a 1 v 1.
Otherwise, feel free to go back to your crying about how you can't make a profit, or AV is too strong, or how you can no longer go 30- 0 now that people have specced into real AV.
Poor baby.
You're so full of yourself, with nothing of any value to prove it. I think you need to grow up or go back to call of duty, your e-p33n flexing and arrogance would be more accepted over there.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.16 02:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:Big long post on the last page, no talk of nerfs. Clearly vpid you can't read or you can't formulate a reply. Well done buddy.
Alpha, that's funny. You try and talk down to me but won't put your money where your mouth is. Are you yet another of Charlottes alt?
If I was one of Charlottes alts, why would I be in a competitive PC corp? Obviously, if anyone has a different point of view than you, they must be lying, or faking, or an alt, since your "no true scotsman" arguements are absolutely flawless... |
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.17 17:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Attorney General wrote:
You give me 25% more PG, and I will make a Madrugar that will take 2 or 3 Proto AV to tackle. I can already shrug off a single proto AV user.
What happens when we get proto vehicles?
Why is it that no one seems to think that maybe the STD tanks got stepped down to make room for proto tanks that won't be OP? Is that such a strange idea?
I do not like that they made a balancing pass before introducing new stuff, but I can at least see that being the case.
There seems to be a contingent here that wants to have big performance out of STD tanks and still want a big step up in performance to proto. That leads to OP tanks and complaining infantry.
As it is right now, I can face off with a proto AV without too much fear, but as soon as there is more than one of them I am in deep trouble. This to me is balanced. They are two people, I am one. How this balance will change with the introduction of future vehicles remains to be seen.
I agree with this, but I think the original request in the OP was to get proto and adv tanks, and pilot suits out asap so we can compete in PC. The other request was to have the standard tanks temporarily buffed until the higher tiered tanks come out.
What I can say about tanks though, is that we really don't need any more damage boosting skills, but personally I would like more HP, more PG and CPU, more viable fitting options (scanners, using speed modules, cru) and definitely around 10 mod slots total on the proto tank (reasonable, as the proto logis get around 8).
I don't think handheld AV should really be nerfed but swarm AI should be improved. AV grenades should trade off damage for a vehicle slowing effect instead (or a capacitor draining effect). |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.18 00:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
As I said, it was my opinion. I see the advantage of being high in places like those towers, but not sure that it's imperative. I guess it depends on your play style.
No it doesn't depend on your playstyle. If you aren't using high ground to your advantage, then how are you engaging the tank? Running right in its face or within blaster range?
You just invalidated all of your posts, with these statements above. If you don't want to use AV properly, then suffer the consequences and get out of the way.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
TakeCover OrDie wrote:PROTO TANKS
what |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
It's not my job to teach you how to play. I have a K/D ratio of 7, so I guess I'm suffering lots of consequences. You don't need to be up there to engage a tank. There is cover on the ground as well.
Oh well, I might have been a bit harsh.
If you can manage 7.00 kdr with your playstyle, good for you. I don't know what that says about the balance between AV and tanks, if you are that successful with a such a strategy. Could you give me some more depth on your strategy, so I can see from your perspective a little more? |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
34
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Posted - 2013.07.18 01:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Blood for the blood god, milk for the khorne flakes, bump 
Back to the warp with you!
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
37
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Posted - 2013.07.18 04:09:00 -
[26] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Void Echo wrote:
we wont agree to anything that nerfs us even further.
and the rest of dust wont agree to anything that requires 3+ proto players to take down one STD.
Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
37
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Thats not what we are asking. I want it to be a team of 3 proto or so to take on a fully fit proto tank, not a standard.
Proto tanks aren't in the game, so how do you know that it won't require 3 proto to take it down? Currently, solo STD AV is not taking any decent STD tank down. If it is, then your tank is really bad.
It was said earlier in the thread that we like the balance in the STD vs STD area ( no complaints there).
I never said tanks were in the game, I had just given an opinion as to what I think the balance should be, considering 1 proto AVer matches a standard tank. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
37
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Mary Sedillo wrote:
Just there are plenty of idiots who know nothing of how to fight AV and cry when their overpriced vehicle blows up due to a lack of intelligence.
We aren't just complaining that we got blown up. We are trying to look at the philosophy behind the current balance state, which gives the proto AVer an advantage, with less effort/input. Of course we can adapt to these conditions, but why should we, when it is clear that proto and advanced tanks are absolutely needed to give us an even balance. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
39
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:
You don't know what you're talking about. I drive vehicles. I get hit by AV every match. I have multiple skills, and my favorites are AV and Vehicles.
I've got as many skill points as you and as much time invested. you have no more right to live than I do. How many AVers do you kill before one is finally good enough to kill you? 20? 30? You don't want balance, you do want god mode.
Have you ever heard of the term "pubstomping machine?," because that is what standard tanks are right now. We only dominate because the enemy team is too lazy to field AV. I've just played my 5th or so PC match today, where I am forced to fight smart AVers. I adapt, but the pain and frustration remains.
Also, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in all of PC who uses a Vayu effectively (I have to make use of the 4mil sp sink somehow). |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
39
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pikachu Power wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:Stinker Butt wrote:
You don't know what you're talking about. I drive vehicles. I get hit by AV every match. I have multiple skills, and my favorites are AV and Vehicles.
I've got as many skill points as you and as much time invested. you have no more right to live than I do. How many AVers do you kill before one is finally good enough to kill you? 20? 30? You don't want balance, you do want god mode.
Have you ever heard of the term "pubstomping machine?," because that is what standard tanks are right now. We only dominate because the enemy team is too lazy to field AV. I've just played my 5th or so PC match today, where I am forced to fight smart AVers. I adapt, but the pain and frustration remains. Also, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in all of PC who uses a Vayu effectively (I have to make use of the 4mil sp sink somehow). The day I see a Vayu win a tank battle against a competant tanker is the day I eat my locus grenade.
I've been running my Vayu all day, I have a secret build that no one knows about. Even in instant battles I use it more than my Madrugar and most of the time my Vayu out performs my madrugar.
For example, just today I had killed Tank Gorillarape in his fully fit Madrugar, with my Vayu. He was not the only one, but he was one of the more noticeable ones.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
39
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Posted - 2013.07.18 05:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
FATPrincess - XOXO wrote:
Lies
-XOXO
I swear to god. If you truly don't believe me, then hit me up so we can do some 1v1 fox only no items final destination. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
39
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Posted - 2013.07.18 06:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:Alpha 443-6732 wrote:
Oh well, I might have been a bit harsh.
If you can manage 7.00 kdr with your playstyle, good for you. I don't know what that says about the balance between AV and tanks, if you are that successful with a such a strategy. Could you give me some more depth on your strategy, so I can see from your perspective a little more?
I'll admit, I've only been AV for a month. My K/D was 6.2 with an HMG, and since switching to AV, it's slowly creeping up. The majority of my kills are not from tanks as they are one of the few challenges in the game. Most come from keeping the lavs at bay or mowing over mercs playing in the street. I use cover. Sometimes just a hill will do, especially if the tank is out in the open. Stay hidden if I can. Sneaking up behind a tank is ideal, but depending on their position, that's sometimes easier said than done. I like to use my logi lav as bait. By the time they finish that off, I've usually got 3 packed lai dai's burried into them and just need launch a couple more swarms. I don't mind losing the lav because I've literally got enough isk for 1,800 more. If the tank has good ground support, it's not safe to engage alone on the ground. If multiple people are attacking it, I can help from a distance. Sometimes the tank wins, but I usually feel like I've at least put up a good fight. I find my play style more fun than sitting on a tower with a couple of nanohives. It has more risk, but keeps the adrenaline pumping and keeps me interested in this game.
Interesting, not a bad strategy with the logi LAV, probably one of the more effective ones I see. This is a good tactic for when there are no towers or spires present, but if there are, I advise that you use them. At the least, If you don't want to completely throw away your current strategy for the match, integrate the towers into your strategy and switch between using your current strategy and using the towers, depending on the situation.
If this is truly your strategy, then I have faith in your skill. I respect your use of cover instead of rushing blindly into my line of fire like many people do. But remember that when given the choice, (even in real life) a vantage point is superior to running around on the ground (think normandy in WW2) about 7 times out of 10.
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Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
39
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Posted - 2013.07.18 06:06:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pikachu Power wrote:
Well that's just the thing- did you take him head on or did you play sneaky? I defeat tankers with 10+ mil sp in tanks when i only have like 3.5 in armor havs because i never attack head-on.
We both started firing at the same time, he had the high ground. It was a pretty basic tank fight. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
41
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Posted - 2013.07.18 17:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
daishi mk03 wrote:Void Echo wrote:by your definition of balance here, there should be no balance and av should always have the advantage over vehicles like it has now.... I see, your an idiot.
we haven't had advantage over av since before chromosome, why do you think that nobody wants to skill into tanks? its not worth it, the balance is broken and always will be if a standard av payer can solo a standard tank. because right now that's the way it is and its making this into another COD Dear "A-list tanker", Tanks got the advantage over assault infantry, snipers, LAV, DS and installations. Of course, people calling themselves ANTI-vehicles should always have the advantage over tanks BY DEFINITION. FFS. BY F**** DEFINITION. You want an advantage over AV ... what the f***? Why are they called AV if they are in disadvantage vs. vehicles?
It's still a handheld weapon. It should not have the advantage over tankers. In fact, handheld AV is one of the lowest items on the AV foodchain. As I had said before, handheld AV was an adaption for infantry to stand a chance while fight tanks. When AV gets more fleshed out and heavier weapons are added, then feel free to dominate tanks. You will have to make compromises, though.
Honestly, I think it's silly that you think a handheld weapon should be as powerful as a tank mounted railgun. Your handheld weapon gives you more mobility than a tank, allows you to hide places where we can't see or hit you, allows you to be flexible and easily hold your own against infantry while suppressing tanks, etc. Tanks compromise by having massive sizes making them easier to notice, slow acceleration and agility, and generally being an easy target to shoot at in general, among other things.
Maybe wait for when self propelled guns or tank destroyers are added, then like I said before, feel free to dominate tanks. But as long as you are infantry, you should NEVER annihilate tanks easily with your comparably small gun. |
Alpha 443-6732
Not Guilty
EoN.
41
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Posted - 2013.07.18 17:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:
Literally the only thing that should change between variants is base health, CPU/PG, and price.
Don't forget slots...
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Alpha 443-6732
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EoN.
43
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Posted - 2013.07.19 21:31:00 -
[36] - Quote
I was active in that thread long before this thread was even created. Even now I come by and bump it once in a while. It's good feedback and an overall well designed piece of work.
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Alpha 443-6732
Pure Innocence.
44
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Posted - 2013.07.23 22:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Can we get some details on 1.4 CCP?! I swear that I'll do anything... |
Alpha 443-6732
Pure Innocence.
EoN.
46
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Posted - 2013.08.13 02:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
yolo swaggins |
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