There is a difference between suits and the equipment that goes on each suit. Looting weapons and modules is a thing in Eve and will be a thing in Legion as far as we know atm. Looting hulls in Eve (except repackaged ones being moved by indys and maybe carriers I guess) doesn't really happen. However, given the S/M/L/Captial classifications on ships, having hull costs makes a lot of sense from a design standpoint. In Legion its essentially like flying around in only tech I frigates. The normalization of hull strength between all tech I frigates would mean very little in that context, and removing the hulls themselves wouldn't really affect much.

In Legion, there will be several classifications of weaponry (STD/ADV/PRO in Dust atm which will turn into whatever it gets renamed to in Legion), that weaponry will have a CPU/PG fitting cost and that will partially determine your characters strength on the field. The sum of the modules will be your suits power, much less than the tiercided dropsuit selection. Also, almost everything (except for Light weapons atm, which may even be optional in Legion) are not required to spawn. A suit is ALWAYS required to spawn and to house modules. You will pay an ISK cost for a more powerful weapon. In legion, with tiercide, you will not be able to pay an increased cost for a more powerful dropsuit.

There are distinct fundamental differences between Dropsuits and the modules that you place into dropsuits, you cannot equate the two from a design standpoint.

At some point there will have to be a 'free' suit option at some point in the game, where there will never have to be a free weapon option in the game (if a suit requires a LW like it does in Dust then that free suit would have to come with a free weapon but that weapon would never have to be free on any other suit).

I appreciate the visual distinction, for one thing.

If a person is running proto I can tell right away he is a bigger threat than the scrubs surrounding him. This allows me to make an intelligent decision about who, and how, to engage.

If every tom **** and jerry is running proto, but some people are running it with militia mods and some are running with proto mods, I can't make that immediate distinction. It's bad battlefield intel.

Of course, back in the day CCP were a lot better about making proto colors obvious. Now, it's really rather difficult sometimes. Like the difference between a Gal Sent proto or advanced is hard to tell from a glance.

I appreciate the visual distinction, for one thing.

If a person is running proto I can tell right away he is a bigger threat than the scrubs surrounding him. This allows me to make an intelligent decision about who, and how, to engage.

If every tom **** and jerry is running proto, but some people are running it with militia mods and some are running with proto mods, I can't make that immediate distinction. It's bad battlefield intel.

Of course, back in the day CCP were a lot better about making proto colors obvious. Now, it's really rather difficult sometimes. Like the difference between a Gal Sent proto or advanced is hard to tell from a glance.

If dropsuit painting becomes part of the monetization model in Legion, we're probably going to need to get away from 'suits at a glance' identification mechanics and completely redo how we identify suits and their potential threat level using a more developed UI.

Although, just like Eve, there should be some level of mystery as well imo.

There is no level of mystery in EVE.

Your overview tells you exactly the hull of the ship they are flying, and if you zoom in you can even see what kind of turrets they have mounted before they even fire. The only unknown is what modules and riggings they have on it.

While paint bucket may be a thing in the future we need to account for, I'm not entirely certain it's even a good idea for some things. If you replace visual confirming of the model itself with something like a symbol above a persons head, then the game will largely degrade back down to chevron hunting. If it's nothing more than some text at the bottom of the screen, then that's a really poor way of doing it as you can't really take the time to read everything going on when a target zips past you.

When you're running around in crap gear and a dark silouette with a pair of blood red glowy eyes comes around the corner, you know EXACTLY what the situation is. That kind of visual intimidation should not be replaced with some dinky icon or subtext nobody is going to read. It damages the experience.

And if everyone is running around with the same intimidating model, it is also made irrelevant because it is then the norm.

You zoom in on the ship models?

Why do my post ideas always form before bed?
Anyway, here's some words on suit BPO's and "emotional attachment".

Let's say, eventually - certainly not anytime soon after release, but eventually - Legion reaches a point where large-scale ground or combined ground/space battles can be fought and have a newsworthy impact at the level of 6VDT or B-R.

lots of other good stuff was said here

read post above for details.

Yes, I appreciate where CCP Z is coming from but in this particular set of games you do not get attached to your equipment, should not either. Maybe you become fond of a certain fit or a particular dropsuit because of the performance. I have nothing against a hall of suits, but I urge CCP Z to consider the Eve addage "Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose" for Legion I say the same thing do not fight in what you cannot afford to lose.

To CCP Z I say this, I can take a leap of faith on this progression system it seems only fair to have it tried in beta before I become opposed to it. But Dropsuits and any equipment you intend to use should not be free, and if you are going to meta level then you can reduce the stats of the only thing which should be free, the Militia dropsuits. Free anything will wreck havoc on a game like this. You where not here for free Balochs, let me assure you the scene of a half dozen balochs driving around trying to run people over with no fear of losing their free equipment did nothing for gameplay. I realize you have said there will be other ISK sinks but Dropsuits should be one of them, any equipment you use (In my mind to include even militia equipment beyond the dropsuit and militia weapon) should be an isk sink.

It is NOT fair to try anything in beta that is likely to fail. By the time beta is out, the game development process has wasted tens of thousands of human man hours that could have been spent on something productive. Entire feature sets will be missing because CCP wanted to try something destined to fail.

Do not tell them it's ok, because it isn't.

Will vehicle hulls also not be part of what is lost in battle? Also will skillbooks come from salvage or from NPCs and will they most likely be very expensive?

It is NOT fair to try anything in beta that is likely to fail. By the time beta is out, the game development process has wasted tens of thousands of human man hours that could have been spent on something productive. Entire feature sets will be missing because CCP wanted to try something destined to fail.

Do not tell them it's ok, because it isn't.

This explains a lot.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

[quote=Natu Nobilis]
It does, but this thread nor this section of the forums is the right place to post it.

This explains a lot.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf

I suppose we may have discouraged CCP Z for a long while. I haven't seen him post anything here recently.

Hopefully this is because he is taking our advice and revising his ideas for Progression

Hopefully this is because he is taking our advice and revising his ideas for Progression

AHAHHAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHAH

i mean sure :)

(joke was easy to make, i acuttly agree with the progression change because i understand where are making a shooter here)

Anymore news for us at all?

Do not despair!

There-¦s always Battlefront to look foward to

If Legion follows Eve Online's style of NPE, then some skill books would likely be free to those who complete tutorials and stuff like that.