We are not trying to bring casual players in the game, we are trying to open the game to more players and not only create a niche game (as DUST is currently). If we want Legion to live, it has to provide an amazing experience but also be a financial success. Being a free to play Shooter on PC, we have to reach out to a bigger target audience than for the Console version if we want it to be successful

Take EVE's progression system, mirror it, then streamline it. Now, create an analogue to ISIS for players to use.

Congratulations, you now have a system that is easy to understand as well as non-restrictive.

Can you find any flaws in my logic?

And something that I remember for some reason from your presentation, or maybe a panel / roundtable.

You said something to the effect of not liking that a player be stuck forever if he makes a mistake and dumps SP into something he didn't "mean" to. (Let's be honest, he meant to, but suffered from some buyer's remorse later.)

This entire mentality is contrary to what CCP has built with EVE, and what we've come to expect from New Eden, where you're setting DUST (or Legion?).

At a superficial level it goes against the HTFU mindset (that I don't agree with.) All the information is available to the player. There are in game descriptions. They can access an admittedly terrible but no-skills-required MLT version of the item they want to try (again, a strange tier system that I would ruin EVE.) They can even watch youtube videos reviewing the weapon / suit / thing they want to try. If they're so lucky to have friends, they can even ask for first hand experience. No one 'accidentally' skills something higher than they intended to. Whether they would have made that same decision in a month or however far in the future is immaterial.

At a deeper and more important level, no one is 'stuck forever.' In EVE, every skill has a purpose and reason for training to 5. That doesn't mean something else might be more worthwhile to train, but there's a reason for every 5. DUST can't say that. In EVE, if you skill into something and find you don't like it, that's tough. There are no respecs. The decision is yours to sulk and moan about your poor decision, or find a situational use for whatever you can access in the future. If you actually followed the patterns set by EVE, you could see this mindset applied to DUST. No skill is ever wasted, and no player is ever 'stuck.' (In EVE, at least, because DUST doesn't satisfactorily mirror EVE. (and Legion won't either?))

Adding a dust version of ISIS, certificates, explanations...

That's three layers of extra UI you've just added (which takes resources) and adds more stuff to read through before gaining the clarity you crave.

There is an admission by some that the old system needs 're-done but better' but there is a point I think we can all agree, where there is so much to redo, its actually better to just start again. We've had the current system for over a year and numbers haven't grown.

You've not met Hilmar have you?

It's certain at this point that one of the very few things that kept Dust alive was the complexity it offered. What killed it was the lack of understanding that complexity. There were absolutely NO TOOLS in place to aid the player in better understanding the progression system let alone understand the myriad of complex mechanics that were not immediately apparent.

No, I'm not talking about the 3rd party tools. I'm talking about in-game tools. 3rd party tools are great but there is no way for the new player to know for certain that those tools exist unless they visit the forums which brings me to my next point.

According to Dennie Fleetfoot (since he often gets in touch with CCP) it seems that the vast majority of the players that exist in the game don't really visit the forums... at all. If I recall correctly it was like somewhere in the neighborhood of 75-85% of the player base. That's a huge chunk of the players that don't read the forums at all. That means:

1. They won't know of any of the 3rd party tools available to them right now at this moment.
2. They won't know of any of the incoming changes that are happening to Dust which means they also don't know that Dust is now on the back burner of development as a result of Project Legion.

This is why Dennie switched gears and focused mainly on sending out in-game mails to the D-Uni members compared to posting on the forums. This way, especially considering that Dust University is among some of the largest corps out there at the moment, the information about anything happening to Dust can be disseminated to a much wider audience effectively to those who never frequent the forums. Now if you happen to be one of those people who go out of their way to ignore EVERY piece of mail sent to you, then obviously there is no hope in informing you.

Can we hold back on just being Inflammatory and nonconstructive to discussion? You 'believe' they quit for a different reason and gave as much proof as they did for their reason. It doesn't matter if we see proof for whatever reasons, so long as we can understand that the game needs to improve to get more people playing and for ccp to think it's successful enough to move forward. Shouting 'consipiracy' isn't going to help-discussing reasons why proposed fixes/ideas/etc do or do not improve the state of things will.

So asking for a lot of feedback, having a plan set up, moving to a less restrictive platform, redesigning a lot of stuff, getting more devs to work on the project, and updating their engine doesn't seem to you as trying to make it special?

Feedback? Plans? Redesigns? Engine updates? More developers? Being on the PC?

How do any of those things make a game "special"?

There is a difference between suits and the equipment that goes on each suit. Looting weapons and modules is a thing in Eve and will be a thing in Legion as far as we know atm. Looting hulls in Eve (except repackaged ones being moved by indys and maybe carriers I guess) doesn't really happen. However, given the S/M/L/Captial classifications on ships, having hull costs makes a lot of sense from a design standpoint. In Legion its essentially like flying around in only tech I frigates. The normalization of hull strength between all tech I frigates would mean very little in that context, and removing the hulls themselves wouldn't really affect much.

In Legion, there will be several classifications of weaponry (STD/ADV/PRO in Dust atm which will turn into whatever it gets renamed to in Legion), that weaponry will have a CPU/PG fitting cost and that will partially determine your characters strength on the field. The sum of the modules will be your suits power, much less than the tiercided dropsuit selection. Also, almost everything (except for Light weapons atm, which may even be optional in Legion) are not required to spawn. A suit is ALWAYS required to spawn and to house modules. You will pay an ISK cost for a more powerful weapon. In legion, with tiercide, you will not be able to pay an increased cost for a more powerful dropsuit.

There are distinct fundamental differences between Dropsuits and the modules that you place into dropsuits, you cannot equate the two from a design standpoint.

At some point there will have to be a 'free' suit option at some point in the game, where there will never have to be a free weapon option in the game (if a suit requires a LW like it does in Dust then that free suit would have to come with a free weapon but that weapon would never have to be free on any other suit).

If dropsuit painting becomes part of the monetization model in Legion, we're probably going to need to get away from 'suits at a glance' identification mechanics and completely redo how we identify suits and their potential threat level using a more developed UI.

Although, just like Eve, there should be some level of mystery as well imo.

You zoom in on the ship models?

Yes, I appreciate where CCP Z is coming from but in this particular set of games you do not get attached to your equipment, should not either. Maybe you become fond of a certain fit or a particular dropsuit because of the performance. I have nothing against a hall of suits, but I urge CCP Z to consider the Eve addage "Do not fly what you cannot afford to lose" for Legion I say the same thing do not fight in what you cannot afford to lose.

To CCP Z I say this, I can take a leap of faith on this progression system it seems only fair to have it tried in beta before I become opposed to it. But Dropsuits and any equipment you intend to use should not be free, and if you are going to meta level then you can reduce the stats of the only thing which should be free, the Militia dropsuits. Free anything will wreck havoc on a game like this. You where not here for free Balochs, let me assure you the scene of a half dozen balochs driving around trying to run people over with no fear of losing their free equipment did nothing for gameplay. I realize you have said there will be other ISK sinks but Dropsuits should be one of them, any equipment you use (In my mind to include even militia equipment beyond the dropsuit and militia weapon) should be an isk sink.