Fix the glitches. also, why should we go deaf when we have one on? I think it is a cute gimmick, but it's lame and disorienting to lose a sense of hearing. Why would that even happen? Also, the shimmer should be commensurate with your speed.

Once they are fixed, let's talk about changes.


First of all, you can not instantly shoot when you decloak. There is already about a second and a half delay when you switch to a weapon. The stamina like functionality is what makes it useful It is the perfect compromise to not being about to hold a weapon or equipment. This was a smart and elegant compromise, and it works. To have a cool down would mean you couldn't multi-task, and that would be annoying. Scouts are all about multi tasking.

Second, the timers are good. basic is 30s, ADV 60s, proto 80s. Not forever, and just enough to be tactically used. Basic cloak is garbage. Proto is too expensive to fit CPU/PG wise- but you can do it with some sacrifice.

Damage shouldn't screw with it at all. Presumably it is hardened underneath your shield and armor.

I could see a flux taking down a cloak outright based on tier- basic flux kills basic cloak, adv to adv, proto to proto. A basic flux shouldn't take out an ADV or proto cloak and so on.


Cloaks are not impossible to see or spot even at a long distance. Also, your reticle turns red as you sweep across an area. Once people figure this out, the QQ won't be as unfounded. Same goes for scrubs knifing and shooting and tossing REs while cloaked.

The fitting is good right now. Any more severe and it will be useless. As it is now, I can't speed tank and stealth tank my typical fit, It is one or the other.

A lot of this QQ is just for the QQ of it. Cotsy is particularly mock poutraging. Same for paradin(sp?). Both are the champions of nerfing it, yet it is woefully apparent their information is not based on personal usage, misunderstanding mechanics of it, and just missing the old glory days of the UP scout. Knifing, for example, outside of the glitch users, is much more difficult to pull off than shotgunning. I;d rather use knives, but they just aren't as viable.

It's a two fold comeuppance- first, we have competitive suits and EWAR- no one is used to it, and people's K/Ds are making them feel it. They need to adapt. The second part of that is scouts had to deal with UP suits for so long we are now like monsters with the new suits. or most. I am trying to **** around and try shotguns out again.. yikes! one good day and I was in la la land.. now the reality is setting in. so i'm not in beast mode yet, but i will be once I get my suits just right.

You agreee with this guy? Seriously??

The man said that a basic flux grenade with over 1000 hp of damage shouldn't decloak an advanced cloak that has no hp value whatsoever. How can consider anything he will ever post?

You can't negate one OP mechanic because another mechanic was more OP. Scanners had a hard counter....dampeners! What is the counter for cloaks?

Cloaks are cheesy and it's already in the game....so we have to deal with another cheesy mechanic brought on by Dust. But it shouldn't be ridiculous. My biggest issues with the cloak is that the scout can take damage and not decloak and that you can shoot a shotty before you're fully decloaked. The decloaking animation isn't fast enough.

They should fix those issues. However, in this thread, cloaks are up for discussion.

PS: CR got nerfed like all other rifles.

Hold on :D so now it's a crutch to be able to see someone who's right in front of me to aim and fire? And it isn't a crutch to make yourself invisible so noone can see you?

I don't know what to say....

The Viziam scrambler rifle was the most OP of all the rifles

You can blame takario from red star why I would like to avoid talking about vehicles in general. Most other issues have been talked about just pending action now. Also like I said the devs are in a hot fixing mood might be able to get something squeezed in before we have to wait until next code patch (which nobody has any idea when that will be) So I don't want the new toys with problems to be old toys with long standing problems come around next code integration.

As for generally about cloaks

They're pretty balanced mechanic wise, slightly imperfect but pretty close to it. While this cloak is most similar to planetside 2's I find ours a bit more balanced than theirs consider our scouts CAN have shotguns and thiers can't.

Meta wise they seem broken. I find it okay for a commando to be cloaking but scouts who fit it are nearly as unhampered by it as a scout who does not cloak the only thing they give up is 1 equipment slot and to a scout that is non issue as the cloak replaces a large number of equipment in its own way.

There are rough spots overall just wondering which ones need to be polished up a bit where a simple half second change can literally destroy the cloak or make it op. So this has to be delicate.

My opinion overall at this very moment about cloaks is quite malleable; I don't have any real hard lines to not cross right now outside of just being a bit too outrageous on the idea.

I like people who think and see the bigger meta that is evolving.

So anyways weekend almost over time to focus the discussion a bit. (yes we're working against a clock in which I don't know the time line either here too btw)

We're still pending what to do with the cloaks but some of the changes won't be possible without code of course such as the damage drain if implemented is likely one of those that won't get hot fixed.

So changes if any should involve timers, scout bonuses, fitting of the cloak itself.

About brick tanks

I feel that overall the brick tank issue is bigger than everything here and in its own right deserves its own discussion however this topic is also rather large and may take a comprehensive look and pass thus not applicable in the near time hotfix period ccp is working with so far. So this is a discussion best saved for '1.9' development and not 1.8 hotfixing.

*Minmatar scout for the time being should be buffed in fitting to match freedom the other scouts enjoy (imo minmatar should have a bit more than most other suits)

Cloak Fitting

So with those off the table. We come to the cloak itself.
CCP stated they didn't want cloaks to be scout only tool.
They also stated that they don't want it to make it seem every scouts MUST fit a cloak as well.
These two are most likely going to restrict any changes in the cloak fitting itself

Which leads us to the scout bonus or scout fitting.

Scouts are enjoying the new freedoms they have and honestly I don't see the issue with this. Just as one person puts it a scout gives up nearly nothing to cloak. Only in the more extreme cases are scouts are forced to go tank (unfortunate result of the current imbalance of tank vs utility fitting) So I am a rather apprehensive about adjusting the scouts fitting; too much damage can occur.

So proposed change would be to the scout bonus to cloaks fit. To reduce from 15% to a percent to five lower. I know that something like 13% will look odd on the skill sheet but it works out at max levels with numbers like 70-65-60 for every percent marked down.

So I would like to see this debate continue on what to do with this.

The next more common issue that is greatly affecting game play is how fast one decloaks.

I am uncertain this is hotfix able to be honest and it's something to continue discussion on about as well.
You have to remember I am a stalker type scout back before cloaks came about; any changes to this will not effect my game style at all. Its the vanguard (front line fighters) that will have the most issues as they often have to decloak in front of enemies pointing guns at them and I am terrible at that role. I know how frustrating the game used to be when you commanded a weapon swap and it there was a time delay in the swap I don't want that feeling to return. But I also want to give attentive and hunter players the chance to drop on the scout or reflex on the scout and possibly come out on top.

There is also the the speed of the decloak not matching the time to action. While I am unsure what change it would do for the non cloakers the non cloakers think its going to save them. (based on the killing I've been seeing it won't) I guess the point here is that there is a frustration of people getting killed by invisible people.

I see no harm in fixing the glitch and possible the intended portion of the time to action decloak speed.

cloak shimmer rate
overall a more minor issue but even then I don't think one can achieve a hotfix with this as well.

Cloak Charge

Overall this doesn't seem hotfix able when you involve damage prospects. Maybe for 1.9 but for now I don't see it being a feasible trait to add without a ptch.

What can change is the rate of recharge and consumption.

There isn't much discussion about it but a good cloaker can manage their chargers for a very long time and I am afraid to bring any changes to this outside of new variants but I would like to hear more talks about it such as 1 second cloak = 1.5 second charge or the like.

Stealthiness
Cloaks are considered very powerful stealth tools able to dodge a number of scans, while scanners await their fix there is now the debate should cloaks provide any stealthing? Overall I am fine with it as is as it allows dedicated hunters to beat lower cloaks and the like but the entire system needs a rewrite that absolutions are no longer the case (that being nearer a weaker scanner increases risk of detection for example) The number behind the stealthiness could be change but not the mechanics surrounding it. I would like to see more discussion on this as well.

So TL;DR

Off the table.
*Minmatar fitting underpar should be forwarded, let ccp figure the numbers out for that.
*Brick Tanking is off the table. Better suited for 1.9 discussion due to size and complexity of subject
*Cloak Charge bar being externally altered by other players.
*Potential Shimmer
*Cloak Stealth Mechanics

On the table
*Cloak fitting is on the table still.
*Cloak decloak speed.
*Cloak charge rate internally
*Cloak electronic stealth value

Updated Op with change in discussion.

I can activate my cloak and flank some enemies. I would decloak only to kill someone. While, I am killing someone, my cloak cooldown is regenerating. Once I've killed the guy, I can cloak and go flank someone else. With this system, I can cloak anytime I want and stay cloaked for as long as I need. I wouldn't need 60 secs to get away from someone.

With tanks, you have to be careful when you activate your modules..because the moment they are deactivated, you have to wait the entire cooldown time to be able to use it again. I would have damage mods activated anytime I needed them to if I pulled out my tank.

Funny thing cause the majority of the people that I speak with thinks that the cloak is a joke. Most use it to adapt with the times but are definitely aware of the tweeks that are needed.

Time wasn't wasted.

The fitting issue is separate topic at this moment and needs it own discussion.

Decloak speed wont alter much of the game play still as scouts will quickly learn on how to covertly decloak out of earshot and still put two fresh plasma slugs into the back.

Stealth Value is looking like a more acceptable nerf by the day. If scouts want to really go unseen they should look towards fitting damps. This is currently based on how people have nearly stopped using scanners; how even some super fitted scan scouts still can't see these guys cloaked.

Management of charge right now is nearly mindless. The time cloaked can be nearly equal to the time spent engaging making running out of cloak or waiting on the cloak a non issue with the weaker cloaks (which is probably discouraging the use of the prototype)

Rest of the things are going to require a patch if ever seriously considered.

Cloaks have to be fun for the people who are not cloaking, currently its not; not by a long shot.

Number of threads generated a daily suggests otherwise... And the majority if I was to use such base means wants cloaks deleted.

Also I am not a game designer; nor product owner, I cannot dictate development energy.

and yet on the heels of the QQ; are the ones WITH Solid arguments.

and Ill extend the advice to you as well why don't you make yourself useful by posting something constructive to the entire conversation.

Really?



Stop trying to protect your new favorite toy at any cost and maybe you can seem a bit more reasonable to me and before you accuse me of skimming posts you have posted several dozen times in evidence of doing so yourself; which unfortunately requires me to read your posts.

I find your information nearly useless. You make statements nothing more; do don't get into the nuts and bolts of the conversation in most of your posts. Others delve into the whys, hows and whats and dig deeper with every reply you however are refusing to dig.

This is after all a conversation aimed at arming the cpm with knowledge about the whole nature of cloaks from all sides of the arguments.

Thus yesmen to poor design like yourself are nearly absolutely useless in this discussion.