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knight guard fury
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Posted - 2014.03.28 09:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Paran Tadec wrote:I have found some issues. Naturally, those without gun game will complain about any changes to cloak.
However, I have proposed a few changes that should make cloak more balanced/skill based:
1. Either fix the decloaking animation to be faster, or add a delay on offensive capabilities other than hacking. ie, you have to fully decloak to fire. This is striaght from Eve. Allow the time to fire to decrease per level.
this doesnt seem to bad
2. Lower the stupidly high uptime of the cloak and add a mandatory downtime. Such that, you can just one shot someone from behind and cloak, repeat, and take on multiple people. It'll force scout to chose targets smarter. Again, depending on SP investment, this can be lowered per level.
i say make it a solid 35-40 seconds and increase the cooldown and give scouts a bonus to lower that cooldown
3. Heavily increase the fitting reqs for cloaks and give scouts a bonus that only allows them to fit them. Cloaks in Dust are essentially covert ops cloaks from Eve. Other cloaks in eve dont allow you to move very fast at all.
increasing pg to 40 and cpu to 175 and making the scout bonus 20-25% reduction in pg/cpu and a small bonus to claok cooldown
4. Decloak mandatory on flux. Cloak field shimmer on taking damage from other weapons.
i think the flux should take only 1/4 or half of the timer depending on where its at and dmg only reduces it at a time
Do this and cloak will still be powerful and fun. I could work with these.
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Posted - 2014.03.29 01:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
Eddie Rio wrote:I think the cloaks are fine (other than the bug where you can run around with your knives out cloaked after hacking a point)..
I personally feel it would be best to wait until the novelty wears off a bit and the 'dust' of 1.8 settles before making any rash changes...
ikr, i dont know why people complain so much   
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
proof that our cloak isnt OP
stop complaing about cloaks.
other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:43:00 -
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Selinate deux wrote:Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved.
Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf.
i agree but they dont need a buff or a nerf, the primary thing is kinda not right, but i do agrre that it shimmers too much at walking speeds and should be that bright for such a slow pace
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:45:00 -
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Cotsy8 wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:So quick question should decloaking consume some of the 'fuel' Can someone give me 5 reasons why cloaks are required. Can a scout not succeed without a cloak? Scouts were given a boost to modules, equipment in 1.8 so why was a cloak introduced on top of that, was it really needed? Show me how a cloak isn't being used to rewards poor gameplay or has to be used to get kills. Tell me why skillful play shouldn't be the reason you succeed rather than an easy button. Show me how the cloak isn't a crutch or an easy mode. Explain why it is required while providing an argument how it doesn't give players an advantage (offensively and defensively) with no drawbacks. If you must use more invalid arguments, you can use "eyes are OP" or "get good". I have not read a single supporting argument for a cloak to be in the game. I have clearly shown how it rewards poor gameplay and lowers the likelihood that terrible decisions are punished simply by turning it on.
why do you hate cloaks so much
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:48:00 -
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knight guard fury wrote:proof that our cloak isnt OPstop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP
^this
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:52:00 -
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Samantha Hunyz wrote:knight guard fury wrote:proof that our cloak isnt OPstop complaing about cloaks. other games have better cloaks than ours and they somehow dont consider it OP but for some reason we complain about anything new or "powerful" to be OP Just watch the linked video. 1st cloak uptime 10secs, quick regen. 2nd one was could regen while cloaked and not moving, but disabled the ability of equiping a primary weapon. Both had drawbacks for balance. Your video link trumped your post logic. Dust cloaks have fair quick regen and long uptime, with little drawback for a scout. This is why Dust 514 cloaks are OP.
watch the others
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Posted - 2014.03.29 02:55:00 -
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Selinate deux wrote:knight guard fury wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Make cloaks take up the primary weapon slot and half of this stuff about 1-shotting shotgun cloaks is solved.
Cloaks need a buff with the shimmer being too bright at slow speeds, not a nerf. i agree but they dont need a buff or a nerf, the primary thing is kinda not right, but i do agrre that it shimmers too much at walking speeds and should be that bright for such a slow pace The "primary thing" is exactly right and it satisfies the entire purpose of cloaking (infiltrating, hacking while behind enemyy lines, espionage, precise and targeted killing), without making people shotgun gank machines in the middle of a battlefield. Scouts aren't meant to go toe to toe with assaults or heavies. You shouldn't be able to cloak, then uncloak with a shotgun and suddenly gank 5 people on the enemy line. As it is now, cloaking is just a broken mechanic. I have to sit completely still for no one to see me, and I have to have cloaked and become still before anyone had seen me also because otherwise, I'm just screwed if I'm not near decent cover (which for a lot of maps is most of the map). It should not be like this.
its not broken, planetside 2 allows you to to cloak completely invisible and kill people right after decloaking, and recloak soon after.
cloaking should never replace the primary weapon because its not right and no other game has ever done it.
give me one game that does what you just said.
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Posted - 2014.03.29 08:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
cloaks are easy to spot, uyou just need to get use to seeing them and how they look.
ive killed plenty of scouts today while they were cloaked and have had no problem with them.
MD's are very useful since they can just tear scouts apart with thier splash dmg
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Posted - 2014.03.29 21:15:00 -
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my thread
cloaks dont need to be nerfed or anything, but they do need slight tweaking to be more "fixed"
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Posted - 2014.03.29 21:23:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I am going to agree with minmatar scout being worse off scout for now on grounds of fitting and will relay the message.
scouts dont need to be nerfed in any way, and cloaks are totally fine beisedes a few bugs and delays.
if you still want to "nerf" the cloaks then please take a look at my thread please
my thread
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Posted - 2014.03.29 21:36:00 -
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im just gonna repost my thread in here
my thread
i know many people are QQ'ing about the new cloaks we have, but to be honest cloaks aren't as powerful as you think they are and if you think about it compared to other games, we have the most balanced cloak out of/compared to other games.
i have a few ideas on how they can tweak it but not in the way so its not nerfed in the ground.
CCP will eventually fix the cloaked weapon glitch and will no longer be a problem.
*for one, flux's shouldn't disturb the cloaks timer or make it disappear completely, i think it should make the cloak shimmer for a certain amount of time like 5-10 seconds.
*also dmg should not unlcoak a scout
some people disagree with the cool-down/recharge rate. i understand but its not totally necessary.
*if you think the regeneration rate is too low then the cool-down rate should only be raised by 5-15 seconds so it takes slightly longer to completely come back to full.
i dont get how a lot of you guys say you can't see them, they are incredibly easy to see when/if you happen too see or notice one.
i have actually took the time to just watch an ambush with a sniper fit and observe carefully. i noticed that they have a lot of distortion and shimmer when running and sprinting.
* I have also noticed while observing that rarely any scout camps so i find that good to know.
*also, its not the fact that you cant see them, but the fact that they always get to where you dont see them while they uncloak.
brick tanking scouts can be a problem, but they can always be dealt with.
*any body has the ability to brick tank but totally is up to them and not a specific module. i have noticed that i have only met brick tanked scouts in the "american" server but when i went to the EU server it was totally easy going and not as "deadly" as our server.
i dont think so but some people say proto cloaks last too long, but on the other hand prototype should always have the best stats about it, as long as it not too powerful or strange.
*at the least i have thought of a simple tweak for that, instead of 80 keep the basic at 30, change the ADV to 45, and make the prototype variant 60 seconds.
*there is nothing wrong with cloaked hacking
the uncloak speed is only a bit slow but that can be tweaked correctly if ccp does it right.
* CCP could tweak the uncloak mechanic to be faster so weapon swapping isnt faster than uncloaking.
the cloak noise doesnt seem like a problem IMO, and doesnt seem like it needs working.
IMHO, i think cloaks shouldnt be tweaked besides a few glitches, and the weapon swap being faster than the uncloak itself. one way i have gotten use to scouts is by watching them in ambush and just obesrving how they look and what they do while cloaked to gewt a general idea of how they would attack me. ccp probaly have already thought about certain changes to the cloak since everyone is QQ'ing about it but what they do is based on what we QQ about so oh well.
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Posted - 2014.03.29 21:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
u ignoring my post IWS
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Posted - 2014.03.29 22:07:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:snip
*Brick Tanked Cloakers
There is a problem but not sure how best to deal with it outside of ramping up cloak fitting more which means either increasing the fit cost of the cloak or decreasing scout innate bonus.
snip The innate fitting skill reduction looks really good. It could mess with fitting mobility mods on my Minja but I can live with that. I'm not sure if it is possible but splitting the bonus into two could work. Keep the current saved value for CPU, slash x percent from the saved PG. It could work so long as neither extenders or plates get pg reductions in the future. If there is a goal to restrict cloaks from other classes then increase the all cloak fitting costs. If it isn't then don't do it. The current CPU/PG feel right when I look at them with a Medium Frame. Iron Wolf Saber wrote:snip
As for Assaults there are discussions on how to buff them but the development team isn't ready to share them yet. Thanks for the heads-up. I don't even run Assaults and it's a concern. Cloaks are not intended to be scouts only according to CCP.
trust me, scoutss arent the only ones using them. ive seen many proto suits use them.
i even use them on my proto amarr assault alt and its very useful
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Posted - 2014.03.29 22:58:00 -
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Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:Something else I'm not sure has been said yet, but you really don't need cloaks for stealthy gameplay. Day one of 1.8 I skilled an alt into gal scout with an HK4M shotgun (never trained any skills for it) and a basic cloak. I didn't need the cloak to be stealthy. The fact of the matter was that I was already effectively invisible because I wasn't on the radar. All I had to do was detect the bad guys and, since I know what direction they're facing, make sure I was standing behind something when they looked my way. Then when they would walk my way I'd hit the cloak, let them pass and then follow them to a spot where I'd ambush them. I even did this against 3 guys at once and killed two of them before the last guy took me down because I tried to kill him too instead of jumping over something and recloaking. On a character with around 4 million total SP. I had like 300 hp on that suit at most. I didn't need the cloak to do that, I could have just shot him in the head with my shotgun at point blank range as soon as he came into view. I used the cloak to make it easier to set up that kind of ambush.
. Exactly it......people are acting as if they need cloaking to be stealthy. You can't see scouts on your radar as it is...especially since the scanner nerf. Cloaking has just allowed people to be cheesy..running around invisible for 15 mins There are scanner bugs it seems though waiting on fixes for those. what bugs? I'm glad scanners got nerfed into oblivion. Big time crutch.
scanners arent worthless they just require more sp to invest to be decent
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
pyrex supports cloaking
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
IWS check pyrex's 1.8 review. he is great at judging patches
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:53:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:knight guard fury wrote:IWS check pyrex's 1.8 review. he is great at judging patches wont load...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdsaFt4gnjY
lol
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Posted - 2014.03.30 00:57:00 -
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Beeeees wrote:There was the idea of running the cloak off your shield HP as a timer, meaning modular cloaking times + brick tanking becoming useless in combination with cloaking suits.
Not sure how its practical but Ill just repost it.
and leave shield tankers defensless?
i think not
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:03:00 -
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why not reduce the cpu/pg needs for ferro and reactive and increase the needs for plates
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
IWS, if you watched it, what do you think of the vid
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:20:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:yeah its his video stopping at 4 seconds in and stalls loading.
well when ever you get the chance, watch it. he makes so many good points and has some good reasons to why cloaks arent OP
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
i find it humerous that i have crappy connection and i can watch his video reatedly and you probably have great internet connection and it wwont load for you
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Posted - 2014.03.30 01:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
pyrex's old shotty vid shows so much
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Posted - 2014.03.30 02:01:00 -
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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:and funny that video played fine.
i find that a bit trolly
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Posted - 2014.03.30 11:58:00 -
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Mad Syringe wrote:In EVE, you can't cloak and are decloaked in the proximity of stations/other ships. Why not make it similar in Dust.
If you aproach a cloaked player and have line of sight, you should see his shevron when he is within half your passive BASE scanning distance. Meaning an Assault player would see the chevron when he directly looks at a scout within 5m. But only if he moves, even if it's ever so slightly. If he's standing still the chevron should disappear.
The hp stacking should result in higher speed penalty for scouts so they become much slower when stacking plates.
Flux grenades should scramble the cloak in a slight manner, meaning the cloak shimmers for 3 seconds like full sprint, and the capacity drains at 1.5 times the amount for those 3 seconds.
Decloaking should always require the switchoff animation before using weapon or equipment.
well there's already a mechanic that counters cloaks... its called precision enhancers.
they allow you to see cloaked scout if they aren't dampening themselves.
also you can see red hitmarkers if you look at a cloaked scout and easily keep track of it if you aim at him constantly while lookinng
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Posted - 2014.03.30 12:42:00 -
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Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:there a few problems with the cloak. but overall it IS very close to being balanced but needs changes,
as stated shooting your gun WHILE decloaking and still being invisable to the target is iunfair and needs to be looked at...like AFTER you have fully decloaked and everybody can see you is when the gun should be able to fire.
the shimmer is not too much of an issue. mianly coeming from the fact i have killed cloaked scouts witha blaster turret due to the shimmer they emmit while sprinting/moveing. and keeping track of them after they cloak mid fire fight.
for the brick tank part i suggest a HP reduction of about 10-15% after fitting the cloak to the suit. that way thier is a choice between being very stealthy or beign a bricked scout that everyone can see. fitting higher tiered claoks should induce a larger hp reduction in contrast to thier scan profile reduction.
why should cloaks reduce hp, people will always find ways to brick tank, and besides, how does a cloak reduce armor/shield hp?
i understand that it could reduce shields but thtat would UP the shield tankers. and armor isnt really a thing that can be reduced since its not really tech, its an object that has mass and used for protection.
but we could reduce the amount of armor plates hp value though
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Posted - 2014.03.30 18:36:00 -
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Paul Ellinas wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Paul Ellinas wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:[b]
Cloak Fitting
So with those off the table. We come to the cloak itself.
CCP stated they didn't want cloaks to be scout only tool.
They also stated that they don't want it to make it seem every scouts MUST fit a cloak as well.
These two are most likely going to restrict any changes in the cloak fitting itself
and here we have the main problem! "CCP stated they didn't want cloaks to be scout only tool" why did they gave the scouts then a extra equipment slot? and the CPU/PG for 2 equipments? Now they can leave the second eq slot free and spend the CPU/PG for defense HP and a good weapon. So in reality scouts have 2 bonus for the cloak compared to the other roles. First the CPU/PG bonus, second the extra equipment slot ( with the CPU/PG who comes along with it). A reduction from 15% to 13% is a got move let us see if,when and how its gone work out. and yet a non cloaking scout can still utilize the second equipment slot for something, maybe a second RE, maybe a scanner its up to the scout really. There is nothing forcing you to fit a cloak in equipment slot. If cloaks r supposed for everyone why didn't assault,commandos,heavies got +1 equipment slot? Why did the scouts get the second slot?
i cant believe that needs explaining.
there are a few reasons for that. the main one being that they get a damn bonus for cloaks and it would take away having something useful like RE's
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Posted - 2014.04.01 00:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
just make them claok sound loud enough to be heard but not as loud as novaa knives and it can be heard from 10m away
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Posted - 2014.04.02 00:19:00 -
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anaboop wrote:Been testing out bpo dragonfly scout suit, fitting even the most basic junk on it and still being able to take out protos, and advanced.
Running basic cloak, militia shotty, militia cpu module. Cost 4k total. No skills into shotguns or scout suits.
It seems scouts have the best of both worlds stealthy and damage, though its the stealth which allows them to get in close to cause the damage. So doing something to one or the other wont work in my eyes.
The problem seems to be that other suits need to lose all the modules they usually use in place of profile amps and precisions just to see them or try to hide from them. They need to either be hard to find, or be able spot enemies easily, not both least not on the same suit. Make 2 suits good at hiding and 2 good at spotting.
I know people are going to say they are scouts and thats there role, but i think taking one advantage away like that may balance them out without taking something that will cripple them away.
Anywho, I dont have much problem with them since Im testing a radarfit which is able to spot any scout cloaked or not, my only downside is i cant hide from them at the same time, which in turn is why im unable to constantly ruin scouts plans, (which is good) I dont want 100% counter to them, though some wps for bring a dedicated radar would be nice, not sure how but yeah.
I tried to keep it short, just my thoughts.
What do scout users think of that?, no need to be nasty about either. Sacrificing either stealthiness, or your scanning precision depending on your scout suit. So that you dont have both, instead of a damage, slot or something else nerf?
I think it sounds reasonable
if your good at spotting then u should be good at hiding as well becuase the scout would have a cloak and be able to see enemy positions thus hiding
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Posted - 2014.04.02 00:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
Paul Ellinas wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:It is funny to see anyone is upset. The cloak is very balanced. It is very easy to spot a cloaked player if you just pay attention. I am almost worried some people have figured out a tint setting on their TV that makes that blue shimmer even more obvious than it already is.
Spotting cloaked players by scans does happen, and lights them up for your whole squad to see. Paying attention to your cursor going red, or seeing a strange shimmer on the side of the screen sets people apart. Some are observant and some are not.
The cloak has added well balanced fun, new tactics, and methods of finding your role on the battlefield. With all the people that see me quite easily at long range, I almost think it needs the blue shimmer toned down slightly, or maybe just only toned down when crouched. Making a reason for them to creep around while crouched to reduce shimmer would make the stealth even more fun. If it isn't already doing it and I just run around too much...
Fix any bugs of course, but I hope the cloak doesn't get changed. It is very well balanced and a great view of things to come. Scouts with 700armor and 120shields and a clock are OP. A scout(a light frame drop suite) should not have the possibility to tank HP like assaults.
if you have the skills into the 5% to pg/cpu reduction than they easily can, so even if they do, they can still stack HP effectivly
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Posted - 2014.04.02 01:12:00 -
[32] - Quote
why not just increase armor plates pg and make the decloak sound louder
only armor plates since the other plates have reasonable pg/cpu requirements.
trying to nerf multiple things just becuase of one thing that can be fixed will just cause more problems for us
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Posted - 2014.04.02 03:42:00 -
[33] - Quote
so why not just force the animation to show up and we wont have this problem all the time and you will be forced to uncloak completely
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Posted - 2014.04.06 01:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
why not just:
1 change the timers to 30/45/60
2 force the animation when decloaking and you cant shoot until you are fully done with the animation
3 and reduce the bonus to 15%
easy fix and the cloak wont be "nerfed" into the ground and prototype cloaks will actually be worth it
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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knight guard fury
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
982
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Posted - 2014.04.06 02:57:00 -
[35] - Quote
im pretty sure i have the best solution to this "problem" you people speak of and you all just read past it like its nothing
Trust the rust In Rust We Trust Vhreokor Warrior
jack of all trades winmatar specialist master dual tanker
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