DUST Search - CPM cloak discussion

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

1) The fitting issue is separate topic at this moment and needs it own discussion.

2) Decloak speed wont alter much of the game play still as scouts will quickly learn on how to covertly decloak out of earshot and still put two fresh plasma slugs into the back.

3) Stealth Value is looking like a more acceptable nerf by the day. If scouts want to really go unseen they should look towards fitting damps. This is currently based on how people have nearly stopped using scanners; how even some super fitted scan scouts still can't see these guys cloaked.

4) Management of charge right now is nearly mindless. The time cloaked can be nearly equal to the time spent engaging making running out of cloak or waiting on the cloak a non issue with the weaker cloaks (which is probably discouraging the use of the prototype)

5) Rest of the things are going to require a patch if ever seriously considered. Cloaks have to be fun for the people who are not cloaking, currently its not; not by a long shot.


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Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1811	Posted - 2014.03.29 21:06:00 - [1] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1) Cloaks have glitches associated with them which leads to invisible weapon usage and vehicles 2) Cloaks are a bit hard to spot 3) Cloaks persist too well through damage or flux 4) Cloak Noise 5) Decloak to weapon swap speed 6) Cloak timer at prototype 7) Cloaked hacking 8) Brick Tanked Cloakers o7 1) Agree. Fix bugs. 2) Disagree. Painfully easy to spot unless stationary and/or in shadows. 3) Disagree. Blue shimmer. Red reticule. Shoot. Get +50. 4) Disagree. On / Off is sufficiently noisy. 5) Don't know yet, but instantaneous would be bad. 6) Who uses Prototype Cloak? Little point beyond Advanced. 7) No problem here. 8) * Possibly a problem ... * Would advise against adjusting fitting cloak costs. Fitting decent gear alongside a cloak is already tough. If a tweak proves to be in order, I'd recommend binding degree of shimmer effect to armor value such that Less Armor = Less Shimmer.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1813	Posted - 2014.03.29 21:25:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I am going to agree with minmatar scout being worse off scout for now on grounds of fitting and will relay the message. Exactly correct, good sir, and thank you :-)
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1819	Posted - 2014.03.29 23:29:00 - [3] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: ARs, CRs, etc did what they were supposed to as well. They killed you...yet the community yelled for a nerf and received it. That applies to most nerfs that this game has seen. On the topic of nerf, consider the following Win Buttons: * Tac AR (~3 months) * Core Flaylock (~3 months) * Cal Logi (~6 months) * Gal Logi (~6 months) * HAV (~4 months) * Fine Rifles (~12 months) Are you seriously going to compare Cloak to these? These items were broken. Some were obscenely broken. Indeed, Cloak could use minor adjustments here and there But it isn't broken. And it certainly doesn't belong in this list.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1860	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:21:00 - [4] - Quote Shadowswipe wrote: I'm having a hard time keeping tabs on my surroundings. So I should be cloaked with bells on, yes? To help you watch your flank? My grandparents have a backup camera on their minivan. Perhaps you can ask CCP for one of those.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1864	Posted - 2014.03.31 19:55:00 - [5] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Scout Registry wrote: Shadowswipe wrote: I'm having a hard time keeping tabs on my surroundings. So I should be cloaked with bells on, yes? To help you watch your flank? Brings to mind backup cameras on minivans. It's funny that you're clowning him for not being able to see invisible players as a reflection of his low situational awareness. But yet, you have to use a cloak to flank. I've been flanking since Chrome, good sir. Certainly not as well as Demzor or Dominance, but flanking nonetheless. The invisibility glitch was addressed. Thankfully. Firing whilst decloaking should be also addressed. On these points, we all agree. As for former idea that cloak require its user to announce his arrival ... Yes, I am laughing at that idea. It is a laughably bad idea.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1865	Posted - 2014.03.31 20:23:00 - [6] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Mike Ox Bigger wrote: I don't know about you guys but ever since 1.8 hit I run nothing but complex precision enhancers in my highs on every suit I run now. With two on a suit I see a lot, with three on a suit I see almost everything. Nothing is better than turning around and killing a cloaked scout who thinks he's sneaking up on you. I run two comolex damps, goodluck You've opted for added stealth over brick or speed; so you're dead if you miss your flank attack, overestimate your odds, underestimate your opponent, or get spotted. Most Scouts are running fits which forgive more error than yours; these are the Scouts that Ox is hunting.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1887	Posted - 2014.04.02 18:57:00 - [7] - Quote ^ This is a really good idea. +1
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1954	Posted - 2014.04.04 11:38:00 - [8] - Quote This
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 1988	Posted - 2014.04.04 23:54:00 - [9] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Dont waste your time nerfing the only thing you guys at CCP have released that actually works. Concentrate on the next equipment, the next vevhicles the next whatever and ignore the few inconsistent complains of a minority trying to justify their deaths. This part struck a cord with me. Exmaple wrote a few months back that what he missed most was the time when dang-near everything was deadly. In Chromosome, there was a distinct lack of "best" options. From suits to weapons, a merc had a number of extremely effective things to choose among. This fact made for a diverse battlefield, and it made combat more interesting. Uprising has had its ups and downs, but for the better past of a year it has not been diverse. For months on end, 9/10 mercs in any battle ran Rifles. And until just recently, 9/10 mercs in any battle ran Med Frames. Look at the battlefield around you. There are Heavies, Scouts, Tanks, Dropships, Logi, Assaults. Look at the killfeed. It not longer reads Duvolle, Gek, Duvolle. Sure, some things could use some polish, but we are moving in the right direction. Thank you, CCP, for reshaping the battlefield. Exmaple would be proud.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 2030	Posted - 2014.04.05 16:46:00 - [10] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 1) The fitting issue is separate topic at this moment and needs it own discussion. 2) Decloak speed wont alter much of the game play still as scouts will quickly learn on how to covertly decloak out of earshot and still put two fresh plasma slugs into the back. 3) Stealth Value is looking like a more acceptable nerf by the day. If scouts want to really go unseen they should look towards fitting damps. This is currently based on how people have nearly stopped using scanners; how even some super fitted scan scouts still can't see these guys cloaked. 4) Management of charge right now is nearly mindless. The time cloaked can be nearly equal to the time spent engaging making running out of cloak or waiting on the cloak a non issue with the weaker cloaks (which is probably discouraging the use of the prototype) 5) Rest of the things are going to require a patch if ever seriously considered. Cloaks have to be fun for the people who are not cloaking, currently its not; not by a long shot. 1) The current fitting constraints of Minmatar having been recognized (thank you), I've found no other substantive arguments or concerns on this issue. 2) You better believe we'd adapt . But fixing this just might end some of the QQ. I've personally run head-on into quite a few shotgun blasts to the face, only to see the Scout come into vision as my HUD fades to red. Bottom-line, he'd have probably won anyway, but it is still irritating and the free-first-shot is arguably broken. 3) The Scout Community is split when it comes to Cloak's added profile reduction bonus and active scanners. Many are concerned that if the bonus were removed or reduced too far, we'd find ourselves stuck in a state of permascan. At present, the eWar equipped CalScout is a squad's best bet at picking up ghosts. The ability, however, comes as substantial sacrifice. Stacking Precision Amps and Range Extenders makes for a very squishy Scout who can offer little to his squad apart from his all-seeing-eye. The Logi, on the other hand, is an invaluable asset to his squad. Give that Logi an Active Scanner which trumps the ghost, and the ghost will forever remain trumped at little-to-no sacrifice on the part of the squad or its Logi. 4) Agreed. More Tactical, Less Always On would be a good thing. 5) Not sure if I agree with this. I agree that combat should be fun for everyone, and that everything should have a counter, but I'm not sure how cloak could be made fun for folks without cloak. Cloak is fun. Hunting the Cloaked is equally fun, but it comes at high cost (previously discussed in #3) as it should. Again, if the Scout's gimmick (cloak) were easily countered, it would always be countered. If fun-for-everyone is our target standard, I would ask if that same standard applies to pilots. Most would agree that tanks aren't fun for anyone; surely by now, all the but the dumbest of tankers have become bored with their win-button. An Aside on Balance: I'd be willing to bet that in aggregate, we Scouts are dying as often as we kill. Scout-on-Scout violence is at an all-time high. Heavies are terrifying. Squads are best left alone or attacked while distracted. Stun Lock is a serious pain-in-the-arse. If a Scout screws up, he pretty much always dies. Cloak isn't a win-button or free pass, and Scouts are not the new EZ Mode. We die quickly, and we die often. When has EZ Mode ever been subject to insta-gib?

Scout Registry Nos Nothi 2062	Posted - 2014.04.05 21:55:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The scanner system needs a massive overhaul imo >< Sensors should not be a game of absolutes where if you don't have x fitting number you get detected. Should be more like because you have this number would determine the possibility of getting detected at this range. Sensors play a part, but whether or not an act goes undetected is already a complicated calculus. Sight, Sound, Squadsight, Coms, Friendly Action, Hostile Action, Distraction, Orientation, Fields of Vision ... there's generally more at play than what one may gather from focusing solely on his minimap.
Scout Registry Nos Nothi 2095	Posted - 2014.04.06 13:53:00 - [12] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Sorry to double post, but one more thing about the profile/scanning situation. I like it now as there are many more options and uncertainty. Before 1.8 it was easy to calculate or look up exactly what level of dampening you need. Now it is situational. Any amount of dampening is useful but not essential. I choose to go from no dampeners to 2. But equally many people might feel happy with the level of protection 1 dampener offers. There is no prescribed correct profile level. This makes the whole scanning meta game much more interesting than it was in 1.7 and I think it would be a real shame to mess it up. The cloak on/off extra dampening just adds to the interesting ewar situation. Couldn't agree more. When was the last time any Scout said below 28 dB? Remnant did an excellent job at making eWar more interesting. To be good at eWar, one must forego Slaying and/or Staying Power. This makes combat far less predictable and squads much more diverse than, say ... Six up-armored Logi gk.0s, permascanning reds and shooting them like fish in a barrel. Rinsed and Repeated, all day every day. Slaying Power + Staying Power + eWar Supremacy ... where's the fun in that? "I'm dying more often than I used to." - Former Slayer Logi (EZ Mode)