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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
323
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Posted - 2014.01.25 17:04:00 -
[391] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:I'm sorry I did not read the whole topic . As a Scout I would like see more equipment items that required less CPU/PG like "Stable Drop Uplink", or "Compact Nanohive" on every tier level and equipment category. At the moment dominates the trend saying that the more advanced equipment requires much more CPU / PG than its predecessor. I would like to see(for example): - ADV nanohive that is slightly better than STR nanohive or have stats similar to them, with lower CPU/PG req. then STR versions. or: - PRO nanite injector, that cost same as other PRO stuff, but have stats of ADV version with STR CPU/PG req. Thanks.
I agree completely. Sometimes I use the lower equipment on my assault and scout builds because you can't fit anything else. There should be higher tier equipment that has a small benefit for the same CPU/PG as lower tier but costs more ISK.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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emtbraincase
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
39
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Posted - 2014.01.25 18:13:00 -
[392] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote: think you have no idea what being a logi is. The equipment spam will happen whether the equipment is crap or not simply because its spam.
Your logic is flawed because worse equipment will requires more spam to make up for it.
Only true logi's do real placement and if you ever knew a real logi in your whole dust career you would have never posted something so poorly thought out.
Posts like these let me know that in DUST a true logi is a rare animal indeed LOL, your cancer is entertaining. You think spamming equipment makes you a "true support logi"? Use your equipment as needed by yourself or your team is what a real logi do. I can not believe you mention to combat the changes put in place by CCP to fix equipment spam is to spam even more. Alll the changes I proposed are to weed out easy mode no skill equipment spam monkeys. These changes would do little to nothing to a real logi. That isn't what he is saying. If I want to help my team, and now it takes more equipment to obtain the same effect, then more will be put out to compensate. I know that isn't too hard for you to understand. A Logibro doesn't spam equipment, we place it where it isn't going to get blown up immediately, be useful, and not for any purpose except to allow you to kill your enemies faster and more efficiently. This effectively means that my hives are worse unless I'm Caldari, in which case I need more to obtain the same effect (not WP gains, but rep/resup teammtes). My rep tool is also worse (this doesn't involve spam, and a true sign of Logibro is having proto reps), but minimized with Min. Drops, where most spam is occurring, is ONLY going to increase since the timer is slower and spawn count is decreased. If I want my team to spawn at a certain rate, I now need more than before. This equates to more equipment on the battlefield to maintain the same benefits.
Your complaint isn't with Logibro, your complaint is non-logibro in logi suit. The person who drops 3 -6 uplinks in the middle of the road and thinks a militia/compact hive us useful for anything but himself. I, as well as other true logi, will put down the minimum equipment necessary to obtain the necessary results....essentially, rep/resup/rev/scan everywhere it is needed, and nothing where it is not. A non-logibro will put stuff out regardless of location for WP gains.
Non-Logibro outnumbers Logibro considerably. Unless you give the non's a reason to quit it, they will keep spamming since it can be easy WP they can forget about and focus on killing instead of assistance. You have mistaken what we will do with what you think we do. |
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Renegade Alliance
179
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Posted - 2014.01.25 20:09:00 -
[393] - Quote
@emtbraincase: Equipment spam isn't going to be more, but I do agree it will happen more often. That is a good thing. This means a logi will have to be proactive and have battlefield awareness as his equipment is depleted.
Instead of having infinite spawns/ammo/rep hives covering every objective for the entirety of a match that next to never depletes, some of these ihives will actually disapeer.
The slow spawn times on uplinks gives players a chance to kill the hostiles present, then the uplinks without getting shot in the back before he can destroy the equipment.
The shorter rep tool range means the logi will be slightly more visible to his enemies, giving them the reasonable means to counter him and his Heavy. |
emtbraincase
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
39
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Posted - 2014.01.25 22:09:00 -
[394] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:@emtbraincase: Equipment spam isn't going to be more, but I do agree it will happen more often. That is a good thing. This means a logi will have to be proactive and have battlefield awareness as his equipment is depleted.
Instead of having infinite spawns/ammo/rep hives covering every objective for the entirety of a match that next to never depletes, some of these ihives will actually disapeer.
The slow spawn times on uplinks gives players a chance to kill the hostiles present, then the uplinks without getting shot in the back before he can destroy the equipment.
The shorter rep tool range means the logi will be slightly more visible to his enemies, giving them the reasonable means to counter him and his Heavy. How can spam be more often, yet not more? If you had said the other way, I would understand (meaning once in awhile you get ridiculous spam and mostly not), but it is impossible for spam to happen more often, and be less at the same time (since it already happens every match according to most in the forums).
.....and exactly how much would you rage if the Wyrkomi triage hive you had been using, and still had triage left, disapperared in a firefight simply because I put it out awhile ago knowing it would get use eventually (because being a good logi means knowing or having a good idea where the battle is likely to flow and have things prepared for that eventuality. regardless of immediate need)?
Pretty sure if you lost a 150k+ isk proto suit with all the trimmings because the "timer" ran out, you wouldn't see it this way. Regardless of anything else, hives and the like should never disappear until they have been destroyed by enemies or used up completely. At least then you usually get a nice audio notification to GTFO.
Shorter rep tool sux but not an issue with a good heavy to follow (I say this because 7.5m or 10m, you are still right up his arse). But by you making the previous statement I'm pretty sure you have never stood behind a heavy in a firefight where all you got in your hands is a Core Focused and thought that you were far enough away that you felt "safe" as it stands now (it is only getting worse).
Uplink spam will continue regardless of changes. If you don't see why then there is no explaining my argument because there is no situation where uplink spam will decrease barring limits to how close together you can put them (and even that I'm not sure of). Every change has at best not made it worse, and any change will do the same (and you cannot have equip disappear as you die, since that is ridiculous). Yes, it is ridiculous. Just get used to the fact that if someone isn't a logi, they will ALWAYS carry one of the following 2 items:Uplinks and hives. Uplinks work regardless of how you use them=EZ WP mode. Hives only give points if in a usable location=gotta work for it. Which do you think a shortcut slayer might use to fill up their equip slots for quick WP gains?
P.S> As a logi you cannot cover everything. That is what separates someone in a logi suit, and a logibro. If we do our job, you should never wonder where the rep is or why there isn't any ammo. There are limits built into a match, it's just that they are for each character, not the team. And they do have limited life, it is called their number of clusters and drops. I already spend the whole match replenishing items as it stands, now I have to worry about the fallback positions as well? |
19D Scout
A.O.D. VP Gaming Alliance
0
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Posted - 2014.01.25 23:35:00 -
[395] - Quote
With all of these changes coming has there been any thought to limiting heavies to just heavy weapons and side arms?
...and justice for all!
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Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
413
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:04:00 -
[396] - Quote
I like the idea of making Logi's more vital to the game, but a blanket nerf of equipment is kinda confusing. It means that the Logi skill bonuses are set in stone, and could make equipment spam even worse.
As others have mentioned, the nanohive nerf will kill all but the most hardcore MD users off. I don't want to use a GD AR...
A R9 advanced uplink costs 8k less ISK, and 727,560 less SP to use than a Proto link. It has the same fitting requirements and number of active links available. The only drawback is 5 less spawns and 1 second longer spawn time? Proto links should be 10 seconds at least...
I love the idea others have mentioned of each skill adding something like 2 or 5% to each piece of equipment you level up. Otherwise all you have done is nerfed Proto equipment, in an effort to put an emphasis on the need for good Logi's. However each Logi will only have one good piece of equipment, and a bunch of nerfed stuff. Confusing to say the least....
If you win the rat race, you're still a rat.
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
935
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Posted - 2014.01.26 01:33:00 -
[397] - Quote
No longer any reason to be a Logi. Suits trashed. Equipment trashed. Even scanners (the mighty and fabulous wonder device that removed TacNet*) are nerfed. It's like you never understand how players will actually use the weird ideas you dump on us then you get all ticked off for gamers gaming the system.
Scouts are the FOTM for 1.8. Invisible 2/3 of the time and knifing everyone in the back with 1200 dmg in three hits or less.
Remind me what you are trying to accomplish here? To me is would be that you love Scouts, hate Logis, dislike Assaults and ignore Heavies. If your target demographic is 14 year old males, at most, then you have a winner. For me ... not so much.
Not that you care. 15 months of working Logistics reduced to zero worth. I really wish I could get my money back.
Looking forward to March and September though.
* The funniest part for me is that TacNet is what I thought made Dust514 special. Scanners are boring and suck up an equipment slot drastically reducing the possibilities for play. Why? All squads have to have one; With these changes ... two. |
emtbraincase
RETR0 PR0 GAMERS INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS
41
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Posted - 2014.01.26 21:21:00 -
[398] - Quote
I think the doomsayers are a little bit excessive in their claims that Logi is now useless......but only to a certain extent. Everything mentioned is accurate except I see it as changing Logibro from a "master-of-all-logi-trades" to a "jack-of-all-logi-trades, master-of-only-one". This means that while any 1 item will remain relatively steady, the rest will all be diminished based on suit preference, and some people like myself now have a suit they love, and it doesn't jive with what equipment we want. I run GalLogi, hate scanners, and use hives and rep tool on every suit (keep scanner cuz u kinda gotta right now, and uplinks are Satan in my mind since got a few peeps who run them well). I am going to need to choose whether to switch suits to maintain my current logi playstyle (Cal or Min), or I keep my Gallogi and become a slayer with it since it's bonus is useles to me. I personally don't like this choice, but I will say to myself as I say to almost everyone who is pissed about something related to this game and feels they are being singled out for negative alterations or treated unfairly.......
Welcome to New Eden.
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Master Smurf
Nos Nothi
53
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Posted - 2014.01.26 22:26:00 -
[399] - Quote
CaveCav wrote:I'm wondering: if someone using an active Cloak Field is caught inside the blast radius of a Flux Grenade (knowing that Flux Grenades interfere with almost every piece of equipment) will he get decloacked? And what about taking damage?
They havent said anything but I assume it will drop your cloak (also wiping out the cloak reserve) and your shields
"Shine bright like a diamond"
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bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
45
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Posted - 2014.01.27 10:46:00 -
[400] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote: They took our natural repair...
... But they'll never take our FREEEDOoommm!
[Throws nerfed Rep Tool across battlefield.] |
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bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
45
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Posted - 2014.01.27 11:23:00 -
[401] - Quote
Medic 1879 wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:So far Im liking what Im seeing with the equipment changes. These changes will go a long way to the equipment spam nonsense that is going on. Placing equipment (beyond supply depots) will have to take thought, which in turn makes it more tacticaly used..
A few more tweeks are still need to make the support logi more thoughtful about how he needs to handle his buisness are needed IMO: 1. Total placed equipment per player needs to be capped. 2. Placed equipment should disapear after some time has passed. 2 minutes on most sounds about right. 3. The nono injecter should have only x amount of uses per life. 4. The repair tool should be tied to the logis stamina bar. When your out of stamina, your reps stop. This will be especially needed with the changes to heavies being even bigger brutes than ever before. It is already takes alot of work and skill to take down a decent tag team, but after the changes it is going to be fruitless. 1. Not sure if I agree or not it would depend on the limit I guess. 2. Disagree defending a point would be incredibly dicey if all of a sudden all your equipment can vanish, would also defeat the purpose of a fall back uplink or RE's if it applied to them as well. 3. Disagree I don't see anything wrong with the nano injector, fair enough people can revive you infront of a red heavy from time to time but limiting the number of uses means the logi supporting your team would have to keep count and if he hits the limit leave the squad to go and restock it which would be a giant pain for logi's and the squad. Plus imagine the QQ on the forums when people don't get picked up because the logi has no revives left. 4. No, good god no to repair effectively I would have to fit cardiac regs? also how does this make sense I can fire an AR all day only stopping to reload and not get tried but lifting a small rep tool tires me out? Think about it you shout for a logi because you need repairs, he now has 2 choices 1, take his sweet time waddling over to you to conserve stamina to rep you or 2, sprints over getting to you quickly but then has to either wait out stamina recharge or repair you a little bit at a time. Logi's also have low stamina. Also if anything lower effectiveness of hives will mean even more equipment spam, say now I can put 1 triage hive and one nano hive in a good spot for a heavy to defend, in 1.8 these hives will run out quicker so people will be tempted to put more in that spot to get the same effectiveness as before. Uplink spam will also increase they take longer for people to spawn and have less health making them more vulnerable so people will place more to try and guarantee an uplink survives. People who spam equipment in weird places hoping for random points will still do so it just means their hives etc... wont last as long so the occasional logi who spawns coats the map in hives and afk's for WP will still do it but to make up for the lower time their equipment can be used they will probably just put more out.
1. I'd agree with a quantity cap per equipment type, with Logis having higher limits than other suits. Example: A Logi could only ever have 2 nanohives active at any one time, regardless of type or if they changes suits/respawned. When they go to drop a 3rd, the oldest one pops. By comparison, all other suits could only have 1 active nanohive.
2. Already addressed via point 1 and/or capacity of the equipment (like nanohoves) gets depleted.
3. This could work IF the nano injectors had a capacity that could be refilled at nanohives (or supply depots), just like weapons with ammunition.
4. This could work if the Rep Tool was not tied to stamina but also had a capacity that could be refilled, as in point 3. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
45
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 21:58:00 -
[402] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:IR Scifi wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:Dremel wp wrote:Can we get the repair tool skill to increase range per level? +1. Give something like this to all the equipment skills and the complaints about equipment nerf disappear instantly. Maybe not instantly but it'd go a damn long ways towards eliminating it. If I got proficiency skill for every equipment, at least 3 skills per equipment I would not care about the nerf. I know, right. If they wanted to stop Equipment spam, wouldn't the appropriate way be that if you die the equipment dies with you? Or if you swapped out at a supply depot?
^This.^ |
Rami Hamilo
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
10
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 22:17:00 -
[403] - Quote
All I can say is if these equipment stats go live, I will not run logi anymore and I will go to ground assault or just run around as a blueprint derp derping around because my role in the game will have been ruined. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
45
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Posted - 2014.01.27 22:38:00 -
[404] - Quote
New Logi equipment bonus summary: Amarr: Drop Uplinks Gallente: Scanners Caldari: Nanohives Minmatar: Repair Tools
Consider that all factions except the Minmatar can benefit by carrying multiple versions of their bonused tool. In addition, the Minmatar, the squishiest of all Logi suits, is the only one that is required to be at the front line to use their bonused tool. The (new) Minmatar Logi needs some additional love. |
bogeyman m
Learning Coalition College
45
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Posted - 2014.01.27 22:51:00 -
[405] - Quote
With the Faction Wars being Amarr & Caldari versus Gallenti & Minmatar, the resulting (new) equipment technology divide becomes Drop Uplinks & Scanners versus Nanohives & Repair Tools.
Would it not stand to reason that each competing side would develop their version of whatever technology the other has? Maybe each race should be specialist in two (2) equipment techs, each combo different from the other (one passive, one active), so that each side has all four technologies. |
RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
698
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 09:36:00 -
[406] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Denn Maell wrote: I know, right. If they wanted to stop Equipment spam, wouldn't the appropriate way be that if you die the equipment dies with you? Or if you swapped out at a supply depot?
^This.^
Do you guys have any idea how fast a battle can move to a different location or how quick a protohive can be depleted?
You guys just make being a logi useless.
As long as we have deployable support-equipment that you can drop down and forget about we will see equipment spam by players who will just spawn in a different suit after that. Changing to a system as described above, will only hurt the people that want to truly play a logi.
It's time that we realize see that building on the current support-system will always end up sucky in one way or another. |
Rami Hamilo
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
10
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Posted - 2014.01.28 10:48:00 -
[407] - Quote
RKKR wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Denn Maell wrote: I know, right. If they wanted to stop Equipment spam, wouldn't the appropriate way be that if you die the equipment dies with you? Or if you swapped out at a supply depot?
^This.^ Do you guys have any idea how fast a battle can move to a different location or how quick a protohive can be depleted? You guys just make being a logi useless. As long as we have deployable support-equipment that you can drop down and forget about we will see equipment spam by players who will just spawn in a different suit after that. Changing to a system as described above, will only hurt the people that want to truly play a logi. It's time that we realize see that building on the current support-system will always end up sucky in one way or another.
As a completely proto Logi, I can agree with RKKR that protohives go super fast in a heated battle. Depending on the hive, you can only resupply a total of 4 grenades or refill the entire clip of a heavy once, maybe one and a half times. Drop uplinks go pretty fast when the battle is getting pretty heated. If one side spams uplinks, it's a fair bet that the other side will come in, flux them, then drop their own.
What they need to do is optimize the game to support equipment spamming so it doesn't lag the hell out of the game.
Also, as a proto logi, if these changes come, I will stop playing Factional Warfare and I will just run blueprints because it won't be worth spending 7.2 million SP into 3 different proto suits for very specific things. If I have to spend 7.2 million SP just to be a logi in 1.8, I am demanding a full skill respec. |
Spartan MK420
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
144
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Posted - 2014.01.28 11:48:00 -
[408] - Quote
-1 to equipment changes.
only viable change is the snap shot, yet the scan angle should increase to like 120 degree's with that type of cool down they are implementing.
Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
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Rami Hamilo
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
11
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Posted - 2014.01.28 11:55:00 -
[409] - Quote
Spartan MK420 wrote:-1 to equipment changes.
only viable change is the snap shot, yet the scan angle should increase to like 120 degree's with that type of cool down they are implementing.
Even then, scanners are still not as OP as CCP says they are. |
Wombat in combat
TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback
162
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Posted - 2014.01.28 21:52:00 -
[410] - Quote
A bit late to the party but here is my honest feedback where I have any opinion at all. For context I've been playing logistics since closed beta so I've been using those tools on a regular basis.
Drop Uplinks - Increased spawn time, I do not like this at all. One of the reasons why I love/d playing Dust is because it is mostly non-stop action. Having to wait even more between deaths is a buzzkill for me.
Nanohives - What was the reason to reduce nanites? I see no logical reason for it. The only hive that had too much was the Wiyrkomi Triage hive. I never even thought it was a problem anyway. - I'm disappointed that the opportunity was not used to introduce a new nanohive at protype level (or an existing one modified). Currently the Ishukone Gauged is by far the best, 4 carried and max 3 deployed. I would have liked to see a variant with 4-5 carried and 1-2 max deployed.
Repair tools - Again what is the rationale for reduced range and repair rate? - The range of the Core Focused Repair tool, 7.5m, is simply too short. - Still no installation specific repair tool (to keep supply depos alive from tank barrages), please bring the old A/7 back.
Active scanners - I do not like that you have essentially removed the ability to do area sweep scans. This is a massive nerf to the scanner. If you are compelled to keep the instant scan then please at least consider widening the scan angles. - Scanners are yes very powerful. However, I would have fixed them by buffing profile dampeners (so it would be easier to hide from them), and nerfing the scan duration, especially on the Duvolle Quantum.
Conclusions I'm really sorry for not being more constructive but it is really hard seeing as most all equipments are getting a massive nerf. Overall I think equipment was fairly balanced as it was before. There were couple of areas that needed desperate improvements, uplink & hive spam, illogical WP rewards for low level gear to name a few, and they are still a problem. You changed things that in my opinion did not need fixing and skipped fixing the most important things that is wrong with equipment. |
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Rami Hamilo
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
11
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Posted - 2014.01.28 22:16:00 -
[411] - Quote
Wombat in combat wrote:A bit late to the party but here is my honest feedback where I have any opinion at all. For context I've been playing logistics since closed beta so I've been using those tools on a regular basis.
Drop Uplinks - Increased spawn time, I do not like this at all. One of the reasons why I love/d playing Dust is because it is mostly non-stop action. Having to wait even more between deaths is a buzzkill for me.
Nanohives - What was the reason to reduce nanites? I see no logical reason for it. The only hive that had too much was the Wiyrkomi Triage hive. I never even thought it was a problem anyway. - I'm disappointed that the opportunity was not used to introduce a new nanohive at protype level (or an existing one modified). Currently the Ishukone Gauged is by far the best, 4 carried and max 3 deployed. I would have liked to see a variant with 4-5 carried and 1-2 max deployed.
Repair tools - Again what is the rationale for reduced range and repair rate? - The range of the Core Focused Repair tool, 7.5m, is simply too short. - Still no installation specific repair tool (to keep supply depos alive from tank barrages), please bring the old A/7 back.
Active scanners - I do not like that you have essentially removed the ability to do area sweep scans. This is a massive nerf to the scanner. If you are compelled to keep the instant scan then please at least consider widening the scan angles. - Scanners are yes very powerful. However, I would have fixed them by buffing profile dampeners (so it would be easier to hide from them), and nerfing the scan duration, especially on the Duvolle Quantum.
Conclusions I'm really sorry for not being more constructive but it is really hard seeing as most all equipments are getting a massive nerf. Overall I think equipment was fairly balanced as it was before. There were couple of areas that needed desperate improvements, uplink & hive spam, illogical WP rewards for low level gear to name a few, and they are still a problem. You changed things that in my opinion did not need fixing and skipped fixing the most important things that is wrong with equipment.
Scanners are not OP in any way right now. The only scanner that is 'OP' is the Duvolle Quantum Focused Scanner. And even then, if you're a proto scout with at least one proto dampener, you're immune to them and if you manage to pick them up, it's only for 5 seconds. The Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner is not OP at all. When they changed it so that only squad mates can see people you can, it balanced that out really fast.
As for Repair Tools, I have no idea why they are doing that. Even a proto heavy with 1k+ HP with a core focused on them can easily be taken down by 2 advanced or 1 proto rail rifle. No joke.
Nanohives, well, they're just going to make it so that no one runs those or drop uplinks anymore. they just won't be worth it. Especially not for how much they are/will be. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Dead Man's Game
859
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Posted - 2014.01.29 11:18:00 -
[412] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Remnant,I find the battle moves more then my nano hives can be effective. Can you explore adding one more carried to each of the nano hives.
On a logi they should never run out of carried but be 25-50% less effective except when on a bonus suit to that equip. Now equipment can come with the logi while none logi run out
That or allow logis only to pick them back up
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find
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Ku Shala
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
807
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 15:06:00 -
[413] - Quote
would rather uplinks have a cooldown and be able to pickthem back up after a resupply
scanners need a shorter cooldown if they are going to be a snapshot 1/6 of an area scan is totally useless with a 40 second cooldown the only scanners im going to use is vehicle.
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Apply today!
The States Necromancer
Caldari Loyalist Unite
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Andris Kronis
Science For Death
34
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Posted - 2014.01.30 04:35:00 -
[414] - Quote
Feedback for CCP:
I get where you are trying to go with the changes in equipment stats, individual logis will be special, that's sort of cool.
Uplinks + Nanohives
Seems to be little differences between some of the advanced and prototype versions now, why does an X-3 nanohive take more CPU and Power than a K-2 when all you get is a miniscule radius bonus.
Just change the amount of nanites a little bit and it will all scale nicely.
Uplinks are mostly ok but seem a bit nerfy at the moment. I expect that the dedicated linker logis will now spec into Amarr suits .... then everything will be cool. Perhaps spreading out the spawn times a little more across the range of Uplinks?
Logi Suit repair removal Damn I counted on the passive repair to keep me in combat while supporting my buddies. How about giving some sort of passive rep to the logi suits when using a Rep Tool? Or just allowing the use of a rep tool on self at a reduced rate?
Rep Tool changes I can see this being ok, means my poor squishy Minmatar suit will be extra useful to the heavies as not every logi will fit one now.
Scanner Changes I'm really not sure what happened here, read the changes and said WTF. It's a massive nerf in both directions. Suggestion: remove the concept of directional scanning and make it more like vehicle scanners, including the graphic around the logi. Makes the Logi visible through the graphic but scanning omni-directional. Cooldowns are way too long Snapshots in a given direction are odd when the amount of time required to light up enemy suits had already been nerfed a bit. Scanners were the cornerstone of good teamwork .. now I'm not so sure that people will use them with the massive nerfs ... time will tell. |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
566
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Posted - 2014.01.30 08:16:00 -
[415] - Quote
Andris Kronis wrote:
Scanner Changes I'm really not sure what happened here, read the changes and said WTF. It's a massive nerf in both directions. Suggestion: remove the concept of directional scanning and make it more like vehicle scanners, including the graphic around the logi. Makes the Logi visible through the graphic but scanning omni-directional. Cooldowns are way too long Snapshots in a given direction are odd when the amount of time required to light up enemy suits had already been nerfed a bit. Scanners were the cornerstone of good teamwork .. now I'm not so sure that people will use them with the massive nerfs ... time will tell.
You realize you are describing passive scanning right? If you want that just throw on some precision mods and range apps and you do this all the time.
Active scanners had no negatives while still being better than passive scanning in nearly all ways. Cooldowns and scan angle give a reason to run passive scanning.
Active Scanners completely voided dampening unless you were a scout. Also completely voided scan precision and range amplification skills.
Now my passive scanner actually has a role. My scout can sneak in and get an idea where enemies are then I can relay that to you telling you to scan here. You can scan without my help but still not be nearly as efficient and may waste some scans. Now truly effective scanning actually takes teamwork. |
Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day
780
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Posted - 2014.01.30 08:36:00 -
[416] - Quote
The major problem I see from this is not so much the specialisation of the suits-> equipment.
I can see Cal and Amarr logi's taking multiple hives/uplinks - making them work more effectively. They are after all the more 'combat' races The Gal and Min logi's can be counted on for scans / reps, making decent intel/medics.
Remember that since they're getting a reduction to the fitting cost of equipment then they can balance out inadequacies by fitting better equipment. (Something I wish I could do more now) so in a way kinda evens out.
The problem I do have is other classes making use of equipment will be severely hampered. Someone specialising in a assault suit wanting to place uplinks at the start of the battle will have to compromise his fit even more to get the same effect as now. Scouts may also suffer this problem if they want to have a cloak as well (depending on the visual effectiveness of the cloak. If it is good then the scout can sacrifice protection for good equipment) a basic stable uplink simple won't cut it, even behind the lines - 15s 10 spawns = may as well just hack a CRU.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Rami Hamilo
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
14
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Posted - 2014.01.30 11:02:00 -
[417] - Quote
Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:The major problem I see from this is not so much the specialisation of the suits-> equipment.
I can see Cal and Amarr logi's taking multiple hives/uplinks - making them work more effectively. They are after all the more 'combat' races The Gal and Min logi's can be counted on for scans / reps, making decent intel/medics.
Remember that since they're getting a reduction to the fitting cost of equipment then they can balance out inadequacies by fitting better equipment. (Something I wish I could do more now) so in a way kinda evens out.
The problem I do have is other classes making use of equipment will be severely hampered. Someone specialising in a assault suit wanting to place uplinks at the start of the battle will have to compromise his fit even more to get the same effect as now. Scouts may also suffer this problem if they want to have a cloak as well (depending on the visual effectiveness of the cloak. If it is good then the scout can sacrifice protection for good equipment) a basic stable uplink simple won't cut it, even behind the lines - 15s 10 spawns = may as well just hack a CRU.
I'm not a big fan of over specializing. For one, we have yet to see if each faction has its own variant of each equipment available on the LP store or if there will be a Player Market so that those that don't run Amarr or Caldari FW (Because, let's face it, people will still run Gallente and Minmatar because they still have the best LP stuff) can get the equipment. Also, just as you said, it will severely hamper everyone else and reduce almost all equipment to being a logi only thing.
What's that, you have zero levels into any Logi suit? Sucks for you. Better hope there's a Caldari and Amaar Logi on your team or else you're screwed. All the enemy team has to do to win in 1.8 is hope there's no Caldair/Amaar logi (proto level) and blow up/continually hack the CRU/Supply depots (Or blow them up), which will be easy since there will most likely be tons of Minmatar Scouts running around, and just redline you.
Again, most logis will agree with me, if they roll this out, the logi role will most suredly die and I will run blueprint fittings and sit on any SP I gain. |
Broonfondle Majikthies
Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day
781
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:32:00 -
[418] - Quote
Rami Hamilo wrote:Broonfondle Majikthies wrote:The major problem I see from this is not so much the specialisation of the suits-> equipment.
I can see Cal and Amarr logi's taking multiple hives/uplinks - making them work more effectively. They are after all the more 'combat' races The Gal and Min logi's can be counted on for scans / reps, making decent intel/medics.
Remember that since they're getting a reduction to the fitting cost of equipment then they can balance out inadequacies by fitting better equipment. (Something I wish I could do more now) so in a way kinda evens out.
The problem I do have is other classes making use of equipment will be severely hampered. Someone specialising in a assault suit wanting to place uplinks at the start of the battle will have to compromise his fit even more to get the same effect as now. Scouts may also suffer this problem if they want to have a cloak as well (depending on the visual effectiveness of the cloak. If it is good then the scout can sacrifice protection for good equipment) a basic stable uplink simple won't cut it, even behind the lines - 15s 10 spawns = may as well just hack a CRU. I'm not a big fan of over specializing. For one, we have yet to see if each faction has its own variant of each equipment available on the LP store or if there will be a Player Market so that those that don't run Amarr or Caldari FW (Because, let's face it, people will still run Gallente and Minmatar because they still have the best LP stuff) can get the equipment. Also, just as you said, it will severely hamper everyone else and reduce almost all equipment to being a logi only thing. What's that, you have zero levels into any Logi suit? Sucks for you. Better hope there's a Caldari and Amaar Logi on your team or else you're screwed. All the enemy team has to do to win in 1.8 is hope there's no Caldair/Amaar logi (proto level) and blow up/continually hack the CRU/Supply depots (Or blow them up), which will be easy since there will most likely be tons of Minmatar Scouts running around, and just redline you. Again, most logis will agree with me, if they roll this out, the logi role will most suredly die and I will run blueprint fittings and sit on any SP I gain. Actually this made me think CCP was planning to add a passive bonus to the equipment skills. I If passive skills could = bringing equipment to current levels it would make it more accessible to other classes and give all logi's the ability to perform well outside of their allotted racial bonuses.
Scanners do need a reduction, maybe not quite to this degree. The cooldowns are perhaps a little excessive so a passive bonus there would help. Not enough to scan someone indefinitely but enough to give a skilled user an edge.
I also liked the idea floating around to enable us to hack equipment. An assault that took an objective that is low on ammo could hack a hive to replenish his stock / a scout can hack enemies own uplinks and use them against them.
"...where Bylothgar the Ill-postured was made King of the People With No Name But Decent Footwear"
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
393
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 20:19:00 -
[419] - Quote
I just wanted to say thanks for renaming the uplinks back to an amarrian manufacturer.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
706
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 22:30:00 -
[420] - Quote
Another question: As I don't see a ISK price for the LP-gear, Is LP-gear going to be completely ISK-free? |
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