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John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1650	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:14:00 - [301] - Quote So I gave some thought to the individual changes and their sum effect. I run a lot of uplinks and use an Amarr suit so I guess one of my main activities will be mostly unaffected, but the use of other equipment will be significantly less effective, which I think is a little lame. No, IGÇÖm not a doomsayer who thinks this is going to obliterate the logi class, and yes there were definitely problems with spam. But I think they went a little too far (the swarm launcher analogy was a good oneGÇª you change too many small things and you end up with a big problem) and there are other ways they could have been fixed, like I mentioned in another post. The aligning of racial suits with appropriate equipment is a great idea, but if you are going to nerf the equipment, why not give a small blanket bonus to every type of equipment to every logi suit so that every type of equipment is maybe not quite as good as it is now on any logi suit, but the specific racial equipment really shines. This serves the purpose of making racial choices matter, and also puts equipment back into the hands of the specialists like Remnant said his goals were. If you nerf it for everyone, how does that achieve that goal? It doesnGÇÖt. ThatGÇÖs the other thing. All the equipment haters are running around here going GÇ£hooray, less spam.GÇ¥ First response to that is: be careful what you wish for, you may regret it when you start running out of ammo or canGÇÖt respawn. Second, I wouldnGÇÖt hold my breath that this is going to magically GÇ£fixGÇ¥ spam. Think about it: If each nanohive is worse now, how exactly does that encourage using LESS of them?. Again, it doesnGÇÖt; in fact, it does the opposite. How to decrease spam in 3 easy steps: - Make each piece of equipment more valuable and durable. - Make it harder to fit them (i.e., no proto hives for you assault types without making a big sacrifice somewhere else) - Make a non-deployable radius (i.e., place an uplink less than x meters away from an existing one and it wonGÇÖt work). Those would fix spam, not just a blanket reduction in effectiveness. "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6533	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:22:00 - [302] - Quote Melee while cloaked sounds like a reasonable thing. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 624	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:23:00 - [303] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) That is too bad. I feel the CPM and community had a knee jerk reaction and had not thought it through nearly as much as they think they did.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 641	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:27:00 - [304] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote: Quil Evrything wrote: Thing is, they have fitting capability to burn. Lesseee.. amarr proto logi. (details snipped...) Total tank: 812 Nice little CLOAKED mini-heavy you have there. Sure it's a good fit, but remember (1) you cannot fire while cloaked, (2) running will make you more visible and (3) most of scanners will still be able to pick you up. No, they wont scan the logi. While cloaked, with NO points in dampening, logi profile will be 37.5 So thats less than basic scanner. with only 3 points in damp, logi + cloak will be @35.25 (50 * .94 * .75) That is less than ADV scanner. and oh by the way, swapping out just ONE armor module, for a proto damp, will get the logi to 27dB. Which is LESS THAN PROTO SCANNERS, except for the focused. Whoa there chief. Take a deep breath. and exhale. This is exactly the situation that the high fitting is designed for. Yes a logi could fit a cloak. For that matter so could an assault or a commando. But they are going to be able to use them in any way as well as a scout will be able to. Which is exactly how the roles should work. Any logi (pending the new CPU/PG stats on logis) that does try to go that route.....is pretty useless. They would have gimped themselves on equipment, gimped on fitting, no damage mods, low buffer, slower than scouts, hard to fit a decent weapon.... We might finally have a situation where scouts would do something better than logis. If anything I would say that the 25% reduction in profile while cloaked is a tad OP. I like the idea of having that bonus but perhaps scaled back and then increases based on the tier of cloak. 10% on standard, 15-18% on adv and 20-25% on complex. That would keep that bonus essentially to scouts only and provide an incentive to use the higher tier gear on top of the increased cloak times. Though again, I think the extra bonus on top of what scouts already have in terms of profile.....could be OP. Actually it probably is. A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text) By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB They would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolled focused scanner. Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either....
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 183	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:42:00 - [305] - Quote I'm disappointed that CCP made it so any weapons fire deactivates your cloak. I believe that with enough thought that could have been a well balanced mechanic that added value to our game play. Instead the player base opted for a more traditional approach to this mechanic that makes it like any other FPS where this mechanic is present. My thoughts were that it should be as much like EVE as possible (an easy to fit cloak with severe penalties, and a harder to fit cloak with almost no penalties), and I believe firing through your cloak would have added to the game play experience with proper counters and balances present. DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 641	Posted - 2014.01.22 23:50:00 - [306] - Quote Just to make this clear since my other post rambled a bit. I would hope that CCP takes a second look at the dampening bonus while cloaked. In my opinion it is too much to give to an already stealthy scout profile and is preventing some counters to cloaks. In adding the cloak you need to have an appropriate counter-measure. To me that counter would be scanning (passive or active). But in adding the extra profile bonus under cloak....that basically just bypassed the one counter. I'm a scout since early open beta. I appreciate the thought of being invisible to everything, unfortunately i think that would be broken and quickly turn into FOTM.
Lazy Scumbag Intara Direct Action Caldari State 99	Posted - 2014.01.23 00:46:00 - [307] - Quote NK Scout wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) Please dont make the scout shimmer to much when moving Remember, if they are seen at all they die because of thier low hp. Pps The proto cloak's cooldown is slightly too long, as 40 seconds, is brutal, unless the skill has a decent cooldown bonus The cooldown is long, but the actual cloak time seems very generous. As long as you don't burn the whole gauge, I assume you would be able to use it multiple times and never get close to running out.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 140	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:39:00 - [308] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) That is too bad. I feel the CPM and community had a knee jerk reaction and had not thought it through nearly as much as they think they did. Exactly how I feel, I rather of seen the firing left in but you have to appease the mob. I would have loved to see some gameplay with the cloaking left in, but remember CCP might revisit this and release a new scout class that allows firing while cloaked. Now back to the Forge Gun, Will I get my ROF back please and splash bonus. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 449	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:40:00 - [309] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: Mac Dac wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) Does aiming down sights decloak me? I want to know as i will want to use tactical data while cloaked and i don't want to decloak while i am gathering data. Unless the cloaking tool has aim down sights, this would be ruled out. Although keeping your target in the center of your screen should do the same thing. I believe that reminent said that the cloak is activated by pushing the cortex (like when you use all your remote explosives or when you hack) so i dont think it will give us any data and without aiming down sights you have to be fairly close to the enemy before you can get that data. "We should take care not to make intellect our god; it has, of course, strong muscles, but no personality" Albert Einste
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 275	Posted - 2014.01.23 01:52:00 - [310] - Quote If cloak regen is more like stamina and the cloak can be switched off whenever people would like it seems like cloak to regen ratio staying the same between advanced and proto makes the advanced one a good deal for its fitting costs.

Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 731	Posted - 2014.01.23 02:35:00 - [311] - Quote I don't see the extra 25% of dampening from the cloak as a big deal. It's basically like throwing a complex profile dampener on your suit, at the huge cost that the cloaks come with, and a dampener that is only working when your cloak is active. Remember that scanning itself will be far less effective as it is now (given the snapshot effect, long cooldown times, and "dark" times between consecutive scans, as illumination time is now shorter than the cooldown time). I see the dampening on cloaks as something to make up for not giving the non-Gal scouts the 5% profile reduction per level. This will get them to the same profile dB as non-cloaked Gal scouts so long as they remain cloaked. While they can evade 28dB proto scans when their cloak is active, they'd still need additional dampening to avoid Gal Logi proto scans (21dB) or focused scans (15dB).
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 220	Posted - 2014.01.23 03:27:00 - [312] - Quote King of Ghosts wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: Focused Scanner. better, but still OP. but maybe not since there is no more twirling around. Question: So the cloak adds 75% reduction to profile? that seems kind of silly. Even if I read that wrong and it is 25% that seems too strong. It reduces it by 1/4th. I'm more worried about the PG costs on the cloak. I'm gonna have to re-evaluate my fit, because I don't think I can fit 2x Complex Kincats AND a cloak. Thats almost 50 PG right there. CCP, why did you make Kincats so PG heavy? i think the scout skill needs to be up to 17 or 18% per level Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives. https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
October SnowFox Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 179	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:05:00 - [313] - Quote i m already see that stupid chaos in battles... -ö-¦-é-ü-¦-+-¦ -+-¦-ç-é-+-¦ -Ç-¦-+-î-ê-¦ -¦-ï-+ - -¦-+-ü-+-+-+-¦-¦-é. -ó-¦-+-¦-Ç-î -+-¦ -¦-+-+-¦-+-ï-à -+-+-+-¦-¦-à - Doom -+ Warcraft...
ladwar Death by Disassociation Legacy Rising 1968	Posted - 2014.01.23 04:06:00 - [314] - Quote i would love to meet who ever does your graphs/dev blogs. bonus cost to scout suits= more cost of fitting; is that really what you guys mean because i would see that as massive oversight and really anger the scouts looking froward to them. seriously, wtf is with you guys and proof reading / typos. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth not looking for a corp, don't ask.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 186	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:02:00 - [315] - Quote ladwar wrote: i would love to meet who ever does your graphs/dev blogs. bonus cost to scout suits= more cost of fitting; is that really what you guys mean because i would see that as massive oversight and really anger the scouts looking froward to them. seriously, wtf is with you guys and proof reading / typos. A bonus is a good thing. How would that anger scouts? DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 2318	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:09:00 - [316] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: The nanohive resupply nerf is going to hit the Mass Driver pretty hard. We're already starving for ammo with advanced hives, your proposed changes will make it so that proto hives would be required to effectively wield a mass driver. Please consider buffing the Mass Driver nanite->ammo conversion rate so that the resupply rate remains the same as current levels. who uses STD hives after they remove the STD gauge nanohives? It's why I use a proto suit in pubs...just to carry the proper hives and regs weRideNDie2getha since 2010
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 1799	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:13:00 - [317] - Quote I quite like that you've given a bonus to LP items. McDonell Miller Explains the Dust Challenge Lottery Protocol
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1513	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:24:00 - [318] - Quote CCP Remnant wrote: CCP Remnant wrote: Kain Spero wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: How will cloaking work however? There will be more details to come - but after discussion with the CPM, CCP Remnant and Wolfman decided to go with implementing a design that will mean you are not able to fire while cloaked. This was something that the Community / CPM seemed fairly keen on and Cloaking will be used primarily as a relocation / movement tool. We're still working out the kinks and nothing is final, but just to let you guys know that we love the feedback and I promise you that we're crawling through your posts. :) I know the CPM was extremely thankful that CCP Remnant and Wolfman took the time to thoughtfully consider the CPM and community's feedback regarding shooting while cloaked. I urge the community to review these stats and post your honest and thoughtful feedback. Good, but unless there is a cooldown skill for cloak, no one will use the proto cloak, the cooldown is slightly too long, and I hope if you deactivate the cloak early, the cooldown isnt as long. The recharge time listed here is from fully empty. If you decloak the cloak field will recharge from the point it was at when you decloaked. How will cloaking and uncloaking work if you dont mind me asking?[/quote] You select the cloak field from the equipment menu, it brings up the cortex. You press "fire" to activate it. If you switch to any equipment or weapon or throw a grenade it instantly decloaks you. If you want to manually decloak you press fire again to decloak.[/quote] Based off the uplink timers. Will people still be able to spawn onto null cannons which right now have a time delay of 10 seconds? Unless the null cannon timers are increased, ill find it hard to value uplinks over just spawning on a letter. Sure letters can be hacked...... but still. I think it would be cool if we could only spawn on uplinks just like how it is in domination. It would put more emphasis on logis actually doing logi things ;) Marston VC, STB Director
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 458	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:29:00 - [319] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: KA24DERT wrote: The nanohive resupply nerf is going to hit the Mass Driver pretty hard. We're already starving for ammo with advanced hives, your proposed changes will make it so that proto hives would be required to effectively wield a mass driver. Please consider buffing the Mass Driver nanite->ammo conversion rate so that the resupply rate remains the same as current levels. who uses STD hives after they remove the STD gauge nanohives? It's why I use a proto suit in pubs...just to carry the proper hives and regs Well, that's kinda my point. Running proto hives is going to be mandatory for any mass driver user, which means having to run more expensive fits. That's a huge imbalance, no rifle in this game has the ammo burden that the Mass Driver has. The MD needs a buff to resupply rate in order to negate the nanohive nerf, and honestly it needs a NET buff to bring the ammo resupply into reasonable levels.
Arx Ardashir Imperium Aeternum 458	Posted - 2014.01.23 05:34:00 - [320] - Quote They take a "snapshot" scan, yet the "snapshot" can last up to 20 seconds, and that's before Gal Logi bonuses? Please no. Here you can type your bio.

Maken Tosch Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6538	Posted - 2014.01.23 06:18:00 - [321] - Quote I can definitely see scouts spawning in fully cloaked and evading spawn campers. OK, CCP. When are knives finally going to be improved? *CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD*
iliel Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 5	Posted - 2014.01.23 06:56:00 - [322] - Quote Not sure if this question has been answered - - but can you hack a point while cloaked without deactivating it?
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 107	Posted - 2014.01.23 07:03:00 - [323] - Quote I agree that 360 scanning needed to be removed, however scanners have now been hit with a double nerf. Loss of 360 & increased cooldown timers. Just remove the 360 and leave as is. Currently if I'm using the Proto Quantum scanner, I can only scan in one small direction, if the enemy happened to be flanking from the other side, I have a FOURTY second cooldown before I can fire it again. All of them are affected the same way, you have a smaller angle of scan now, if you miss them you have 20-40 sec cooldown before trying again.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 63	Posted - 2014.01.23 07:07:00 - [324] - Quote xp3ll3d dust wrote: I agree that 360 scanning needed to be removed, however scanners have now been hit with a double nerf. Loss of 360 & increased cooldown timers. Just remove the 360 and leave as is. Currently if I'm using the Proto Quantum scanner, I can only scan in one small direction, if the enemy happened to be flanking from the other side, I have a FOURTY second cooldown before I can fire it again. All of them are affected the same way, you have a smaller angle of scan now, if you miss them you have 20-40 sec cooldown before trying again. Good, now people have to rely on self awareness instead of "Oh theres a red aroundnthat corner, im gunna start shooting before he gets here, derp."
xp3ll3d dust The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 107	Posted - 2014.01.23 07:08:00 - [325] - Quote james jared wrote: I think since scans r losing the ability to spin scan the scan angles sould be uped a bit. Like 90 degree for proto and 60 for basic. 60 degrees is a prity small vision path. Another good option, now that we are taking a double nerf to scanners.
NK Scout Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 63	Posted - 2014.01.23 07:09:00 - [326] - Quote xp3ll3d dust wrote: james jared wrote: I think since scans r losing the ability to spin scan the scan angles sould be uped a bit. Like 90 degree for proto and 60 for basic. 60 degrees is a prity small vision path. Another good option, now that we are taking a double nerf to scanners. No 60 degrees is enouh, go need to rely on scans, no more portable UAV's
Kosakai ZionTCD Public Disorder. 9	Posted - 2014.01.23 08:18:00 - [327] - Quote Ghermard-ol Dizeriois wrote: Xender17 wrote: I think the inability to shoot makes sense... But CCP seems to have specified shooting. Does that mean melees and nova knives well work? 100% Nope for Nova Knives, since you MUST hold in your hand the cloak device, grabbing anything else shall result in deactivating your cloak device. I can't be sure about Melee attack, since everything you can hold in your hands can be used as melee weapon, but I'd say another "NOPE" as well. just switchin to weapon decloak you???!! WTF .... then this equipment is useless :D i hope you can use just one "fire" before decloak ..... SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 738	Posted - 2014.01.23 08:39:00 - [328] - Quote NK Scout wrote: xp3ll3d dust wrote: I agree that 360 scanning needed to be removed, however scanners have now been hit with a double nerf. Loss of 360 & increased cooldown timers. Just remove the 360 and leave as is. Currently if I'm using the Proto Quantum scanner, I can only scan in one small direction, if the enemy happened to be flanking from the other side, I have a FOURTY second cooldown before I can fire it again. All of them are affected the same way, you have a smaller angle of scan now, if you miss them you have 20-40 sec cooldown before trying again. Good, now people have to rely on self awareness instead of "Oh theres a red aroundnthat corner, im gunna start shooting before he gets here, derp." You're wrong if you think this is going to change. Now instead of "scan in a circle to see if anyone's nearby" it'll become "I saw a red by that building over there, scan him so I can run up and shoot his face off in less than 20 seconds". What I'll be doing is staying 100m away from the objective and alternating scans with three Creodron Flux scanners (200m radius). This technique covers the same total area as standing at the objective and spinning in a circle. It actually covers more volume if you consider three dimensions to the scans (people on towers, etc). Good luck flanking me or knowing I'm even there, and enjoy my 21dB Gal Logi scans :D
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 238	Posted - 2014.01.23 08:50:00 - [329] - Quote Krom Ganesh wrote: A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text) By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB They would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolled focused scanner. Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either.... My math says any caldari scout at level 5 (the suit is irrelevant) will not be able to passively scan any other scout (Caldari included). There is no anti-scout role at these base levels - none of them will be able to p-scan the others. All 1.8 scouts will have base 35dB profile, and base 45dB precision. A caldari scout at level 5 will get 45 / 1.25 = 36dB precision. That's above the base scout profile so it won't pick them up.
Brynjar Reko Providence Guard Templis CALSF 43	Posted - 2014.01.23 09:14:00 - [330] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Krom Ganesh wrote: A proto caldari scout (I'm assuming it has a role of anti-scout scout) can pick up other scouts passively. Add 1 complex precision module to cancel out 1 enhanced dampener. 2 precision to pick up scouts running between 1 complex dampener to 1 complex + 1 enhanced. (sorry hard to conceptualize in text) By using a cloak though, a scout can use 1 complex dampener and have the equivalent of two. With a profile of 18dB They would then only be scanned by a Cal scout running 3 precision enhancers (out of 4 highs) or a Gal Logi with a duvolled focused scanner. Not only are you cloaked but you cant get scanned either.... My math says any caldari scout at level 5 (the suit is irrelevant) will not be able to passively scan any other scout (Caldari included). There is no anti-scout role at these base levels - none of them will be able to p-scan the others. All 1.8 scouts will have base 35dB profile, and base 45dB precision. A caldari scout at level 5 will get 45 / 1.25 = 36dB precision. That's above the base scout profile so it won't pick them up. Are you sure that's how it's calculated? I know Caldari bonus says it's 5% bonus per level to precision but that wording would mean worse passives so I'd assume it's a 5% reduction to precision per level, so at level 5 you'd have 25% reduction or 75% of the original precision: 45*0.75=33.75 I don't know my way is right but it makes sense to me that it would calculate this way? Also, what about a lvl 5 Caldari with level 5 precision enhancement?



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